DICKS AHOY
Banned
Its ears look like little potato chips shoved into a snow cone.It's a Honduran white bat.
I wanna eat 'em
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XI: Where 90% correct equals 100% wrong
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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I wanna eat 'em
Honestly, I think the reason Smash is so popular (Brawl being the best-selling fighter ever) is its accessibility. It's not just the strength of its character IP, but also how the series did away with the hadoken quarter-circles and shoryuken zigzags of other fighting games.
Sure, quarter-circles and zigzags might be second-nature if you grew up with those games and actually enjoy those mechanics, but they're not particularly intuitive since they require a timing window and motion that can still be failed with the slightest slip-up. It's not nearly as 1:1 as the one-direction/one-button combos of Smash.
Some people, when playing a fighting game, would rather focus on the acrobatics of leaping around, zoning and evading their opponent and leaning into a strike (Smash) than also having to juggle shuffling inputs that don't feel as organic or intuitive.
I can see where he's coming from.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I will respond to this once I am off the train / my phone and can do so a bit more thoroughly.
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
[QUOTE="D";124002473]I had completely forgotten that he had Mega Upper as a move, should have known it was his Up Tilt. I don't think I've seen it used in casual play at all at E3/Invitationals/SDCC outside of the Nintendo Direct it was shown in. Same with Slide, folks just haven't been using it.[/QUOTE]
Here's some footage of it. Seems like a pretty good kill move.
Here's some footage of it. Seems like a pretty good kill move.
As to the bolded, you mean like smash brothers?
Oh yeah, go ahead it's fine.
on that note, do people have the same issue with games like Tekken and Blazblue.? I guess it's impenetrability (relatively) is presupposed?
To perform -a- move, the inputs in Smash don't get more complicated than "push one direction, and push one button." No down-diagonal-right motion or back-forth motion or back-back-forward motion. If you want to do one move, you push in one direction, and you push one button.
Also, worth noting it's just not practical to expect everyone to buy sticks for non-Smash fighting games. And without a stick, it can be quite difficult to consistently pull off even basic combos (and rather easy to blister/callus one's hands).
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Village are you seriously suggesting pressing the B button plus a direction is the same level of complexity for a casual player as the half-circle/charge/S arcade plus 'light/middle/heavy/all three' punch/buttons are for special moves?
I've tried for years and while my friends adore Smash, they can never wrap their brains around naturally memorizing how to even pull off basic moves in a match of Street Fighter. Smash absolutely is a more accessible fighter, even if it has a high ceiling for competitive play.
I've tried for years and while my friends adore Smash, they can never wrap their brains around naturally memorizing how to even pull off basic moves in a match of Street Fighter. Smash absolutely is a more accessible fighter, even if it has a high ceiling for competitive play.
Are you really saying Smash inputs are as complicated as other fighters?
Baron von Loathsome
Member
It's funny, the Please Sakurai Tumblr has led to me recognizing this guy's name, Mii, and most wanted character, to the point that I immediately recognized him when reading the PotD's comments this morning.
@Tathanen
I think the main issue with your argument is the assumption that people who prefer melee want everything to be far more based on complex inputs, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Talk to any major competitive player, they'd probably agree with most of the first half of your statement. What makes smash great is that the controls are streamlined, allowing anyone to know all of the moves, but then the depth coming out of control and timing.
No, in reality what people who prefer melee want is more control within those simple mechanics. It's an entirely different argument than the one you're making. You're saying that smash is great because you don't have to memorize button inputs, and you're absolutely right. But brawl didn't remove button complexity, it removed the fluidity of a lot of actions. It reduced options. Slight changes, at least from my non-competitive viewpoint, but changes that add up and change the overall feel of the game. Bringing up complex inputs in a smash thread is largely irrelevant because it's already known that dropping them is a core element of the game in both casual and competitive circles.
I think that most people in this thread agree that smash's low input complexity is great, and you can see that in the responses. It's the second half of the argument, the half that talks about melee being an aberration because it's less accessible to newer players, that is what I disagree with.
I think the main issue with your argument is the assumption that people who prefer melee want everything to be far more based on complex inputs, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Talk to any major competitive player, they'd probably agree with most of the first half of your statement. What makes smash great is that the controls are streamlined, allowing anyone to know all of the moves, but then the depth coming out of control and timing.
No, in reality what people who prefer melee want is more control within those simple mechanics. It's an entirely different argument than the one you're making. You're saying that smash is great because you don't have to memorize button inputs, and you're absolutely right. But brawl didn't remove button complexity, it removed the fluidity of a lot of actions. It reduced options. Slight changes, at least from my non-competitive viewpoint, but changes that add up and change the overall feel of the game. Bringing up complex inputs in a smash thread is largely irrelevant because it's already known that dropping them is a core element of the game in both casual and competitive circles.
I think that most people in this thread agree that smash's low input complexity is great, and you can see that in the responses. It's the second half of the argument, the half that talks about melee being an aberration because it's less accessible to newer players, that is what I disagree with.
That looks quite a bit stronger than I had thought.
While my experience with other fighters other than Smash is limited to Third Strike and SF4, I'd second this.
Exotoro
Member
why hasn't miiverse been declared radioactive yet?
Yep, I couldn't even get my friends to understand how to do hadokens in MvC3, and the timing window is exceptionally generous there. It's just not as accessible or intuitive as Smash.
GiantBreadbug
Member
No, I think Sakurai is saying one thing and your boogeyman Sakurai is saying another.
And this isn't an argument, at least I'm not participating in one. I'm saying it's presumptious to put words in Sakurai's mouth.
"There's no way he's not totally generalizing the competitive fanbase" is kind of doing that when that's not what he said. It's actually the definitition of putting words in someone's mouth.
I see where you're coming from, but here's part of my reasoning. When playing competitive smash, you're usually playing for a cash prize. It's become an e-sport now, and just like any physical sport it should be easy to get into (which it is), reward those who take the time to learn small things (which they all do, it's just that Melee does it so much more), and be entertaining for spectators. Brawl is a fantastic game to enjoy, but one major reason that it's not a big thing competitively is that it's extremely defensive to the point where you're generally never encouraged to actually attack. When your shield is that good, you don't need to ever attack first really, and that leads to a bunch of stalling. That's not fun to watch. It's not even the speed of Brawl that really deterred it. It's the defensive options just being entirely too good whereas in both games before it there were great risks and rewards for both attacking and defending.
Now as for learning how to do a few moves and hating to do that. Well, that's subjective and on a person to person basis. I was just stating that it is fun to learn how to do things and be rewarded by them, and I was using a much more complicated game as a reference for the purpose of stating that smash is still simple even when it has a few advanced techniques to it.
Sakurai just wanting anyone to be good just doesn't mesh with the loud minority who play and watch esports. We like to see amazing things, and do amazing things. If everything's easy to pull off, and anyone can do it then it becomes less than amazing. The idea of hard work being paid off is appetizing.
I'm not talking about the super casual scene right here as they are millions of people who could not care for these types of things, and they're typically just pleased to play as some of their favorite characters. Sakurai has them covered easily with each game, and that's a wonderful thing since they're the majority of the players anyways. Also, of note, by casual I mean those who aren't on forums, and don't play games that often. The ones who buy big titles with big names like Mario, Pokemon and Smash, but typically play them a bit and forget about it until they have company. Basically slightly more involved Wii Fit Mom.
Anyways, when I type a lot I lose my train of thought, so let's all just agree to disagree for now. For my typing's sake
lolballadofwindfishes
Member
I hate fighting games because of button combinations and unintuitive controls and yet Smash is one of my favorite series, mostly because it's a fighting game without all that nonsense.
It's funny, the Please Sakurai Tumblr has led to me recognizing this guy's name, Mii, and most wanted character, to the point that I immediately recognized him when reading the PotD's comments this morning.
That LEAP.
something something character I do not know, therefore, Krystal
I'd say more that you don't really need to learn any new inputs for the character and that a lot of skills are transferable, but to say you can play that character "well" just because you know what buttons it uses is a bit of a stretch.
Sure, you're probably able to beat your casual friends with a character you don't know just because the fundamentals between characters are similar, but that wouldn't be playing well, that's just knowing how to play the game.
The closer smash bros is to what sakurai wants it to be (so a casual and an expert player can compete), the more of what makes smash bros what it is will be lost. He would have to simplify things that were in smash since the begining. The game would lose personality, part of what differentiate it from other games, and players would lose interest in the game... at the end, you would even question yourself why you are fighting on a floating platform when the game allows you to come back to it all the time (thats just one example of one of the things that "made smash bros" being lost).
Smash bros started losing some of the basic things that "made smash bros" with brawl, for example: the shield game was gone because of low shield stun. That was a huge lost, but, apparently, theres more to come.
When playing only in 5 stages, with 4 stocks and without items, the competitive community is criticized by casual players because they are taking away part of what is smash bros to the casual players. Well, the one that its actually taking away some of the things that "make smash bros" for everyone, is sakurai and, if he wants to archive that ideal game where casual and expert player can compete... he is going to have to take away more.
(just my irrelevant opinion. I know that i differenciated players with terms like "casual" in my post. I dont want anyone to feel offended, please. I dont like those terms
)
Smash bros started losing some of the basic things that "made smash bros" with brawl, for example: the shield game was gone because of low shield stun. That was a huge lost, but, apparently, theres more to come.
When playing only in 5 stages, with 4 stocks and without items, the competitive community is criticized by casual players because they are taking away part of what is smash bros to the casual players. Well, the one that its actually taking away some of the things that "make smash bros" for everyone, is sakurai and, if he wants to archive that ideal game where casual and expert player can compete... he is going to have to take away more.
(just my irrelevant opinion. I know that i differenciated players with terms like "casual" in my post. I dont want anyone to feel offended, please. I dont like those terms
)If a game that obscure can get an assist trophy, surely Batman...?
No.
I am saying that you can fail them and when you use them it is indeed situational , like other fighting games
Eh, I'm not pushing myself as a professional . But I do pretty good with play-station controllers.
MrSaturn99
Member
(just my irrelevant opinion. I know that i differenciated players with terms like "casual" in my post. I dont want anyone to feel offended, please. I dont like those terms
Neither do I.
I mean, I don't play competitively, but I play Smash all the time! I'd like to think I'm not "casual" in the literal sense.
That avatar though.
I don't agree with a lot of things in that post but I do agree that the required manual dexterity to be successful at fighting games needs to be definitely lowered. I wouldn't go so far as to remove QCB motions but I'd get rid of DP motions (like the Persona 4 Arena series does) and maybe remove QCB x 2. Plus, really tight links and things of that nature. I think fighting games should be more about figuring out your opponent and using your character's skills to beat their character's skills than being great at timing and complex button and direction combinations.
I love Melee and it is definitely my favorite of the immediately small sample of Smash games we have. However, I don't think Melee's success as a competitive game is because of wave dashing, L-canceling, etc. I think a successor to Melee just needs an appropriately fast speed and low recovery moves to make the game offensively minded. Personally, I think an offensive based fighter is both more fun to play and more fun to watch and you don't need wavedashing or L-canceling or any of that. I think Smash 4 would be a bigger success with the competitive community without these features as long as it maintained the speed of Melee but with overall better balance.
The point is it's much, much, much easier to "make moves happen" in Smash than it is in any other fighting game.
Of course there's skill in when and how you use those moves. But the key thing is anyone can pull them off.
But the point is they are much easier to use, and therefore it is easier for players to start thinking about situational use sooner. For other fighters, simply learning the inputs can be a hurdle.
I agree. I feel it's something that some casual players may use intuitively without even knowing it's potential. For instance, if I miss my aerial move pretty badly and I know I'm in a bad situation. I'm going to want to block immediately to protect myself. Without realizing it, I could have sped up the animation to use my shield in time when I land.
Exactly. Hard to focus on zoning, etc, in Street Fighter when you can't even make the fireball come out. In Smash, shooting that fireball is never an issue.
WiiRevolution1
Member
I didn't forget, its just I only saw Mallo, Tempo, or Dillon as an eShop rep. Any of their others games weren't big enough imo except maybe Fluidity. But I don't hink even Sakurai could come up with a moveset for moving water lol. (Who knows tho?)
Hope we get a eShop stage or two atleast!
Baron von Loathsome
Member
This episode of Extra Credits covers the topic well. And that's really the big strength with Smash Bros., it's far easier to figure when to use what moves because you don't need to take as much time learning how to perform those moves.
Talking about removing things, the air dodge changes from Melee -> Brawl is one of the things that annoys me the most.
Melee's air dodge, imo, was practically perfect. It balanced risk and reward beautifully, it gave you options that weren't just "dodge attacks in the air" by helping you get a little extra distance on your recovery, wave dashing, wave landing and it was all balanced out by the fact that it was highly punishable, you couldn't spam it, you could only use it once.
What is Brawls air dodge? A highly spammable dodge move that has no penalty for using it and provides no function outside of dodging attacks and breaking out of hitstun incredibly early.
I mean what the fuck was that change all about? It literally removed a massive amount from the game for what? The game wasn't made better by it.
Was it because casual players didn't like it if they got juggled and that if they tried to dodge it by spamming an airdodge they were easily punished?
They should bring back melee's air dodge but make it so that you can only do it once in the air but it doesn't put you into special fall.
Melee's air dodge, imo, was practically perfect. It balanced risk and reward beautifully, it gave you options that weren't just "dodge attacks in the air" by helping you get a little extra distance on your recovery, wave dashing, wave landing and it was all balanced out by the fact that it was highly punishable, you couldn't spam it, you could only use it once.
What is Brawls air dodge? A highly spammable dodge move that has no penalty for using it and provides no function outside of dodging attacks and breaking out of hitstun incredibly early.
I mean what the fuck was that change all about? It literally removed a massive amount from the game for what? The game wasn't made better by it.
Was it because casual players didn't like it if they got juggled and that if they tried to dodge it by spamming an airdodge they were easily punished?
They should bring back melee's air dodge but make it so that you can only do it once in the air but it doesn't put you into special fall.
Might I ask why you didn't see Sakura Samurai as one? I find that interesting actually.
Also, I kinda find it funny that for the most part we're two vocal minorities debating over smash mechanics. The competitive minded ones, and the more just play the game minded ones who are a bit opposed to some competitive mechanics and mindsets.
This is pretty much Brawl's entire system. No penalty defense :3
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I feel the need to note that when it comes to quarter circles and dragon punch motions, I am a goddamned champ. Once I start having to do half circles, full circles, or double-quarter-circle motions, though, I am a shambles. I can't even tell you how many times I've thrown an EX-special instead of an Ultra in SF4. If my hands had cooperated, I've have won so many more matches. I read the opening. I capitalize on it. I just can't get the goddamned buttons right.
Anyway! On to oh god look at all these posts
I agree! To quote myself:
I am really not trying to imply there shouldn't be a gulf in skills between newcomers and those who have trained and mastered a game. Rather, I think a newcomer should be able to watch a high-skill match and genuinely aspire to it. When I see a melee match between top-level space animals, I don't aspire to it. I think "what game am I watching?" It doesn't seem like a higher-level version of the game I love, it seems like a different game. I love seeing amazing reads, masterfully timed dodges, great followups. I don't like seeing a lot of the other things I see in the top-level Melee matches, though. Some of those are mechanical things (wavedashing et. all), but others are the combo-heavy focus granted by Melee's high speed and characters that can capitalize on it. I see a game that is about dominating via a combo, vs evasion and punishing evaded moves.
There was a time when I did a lot of wavedash training and got pretty alright with it. I feel like it kind of nullifies the intended evasion and movement systems a bit, which I'm not a huge fan of. I LIKE those systems. I feel like wavedash-heavy matches are a different game.
I find myself in this segment. I'd love to play a lot more SSB (assuming my schedule allowed for it), but the way I'd have to train, and the kind of things I'd have to get good at, make me not want to train for Melee. I am really excited for SSB4 as an opportunity to try and get into the scene again.
I agree with this. To a point, at least. I think it's maybe a bit disingenuous to claim that "competitive smash" is an entity that exists as a singular thing, beyond Sakurai's understanding. I think you might be able to make that case when referring only to Melee, and only to internet-focused communities. But I think there has always been a ton of competition in the series, and even in Melee, that hasn't adhered to what the vocal internet community has defined as "competitive smash." I feel almost like there were a ton of communities that got drowned out once the current one found its voice, and managed to find acknowledgement in the wider gaming community. And now that community has decided that "this is competitive Smash Brothers," and chides other notions.
Sure. And like I've said, I've always loved SSB because it wasn't that. That the current Melee competitive scene is that upsets me. It's turned a game, a series that I love into something I was trying to escape.
I think easy to get into difficult to master is definitely worthwhile. I just don't like that the Melee "difficult to master" entails playing it like it's a very different game, and largely leverages techniques that weren't really meant to be used that way they're being used.
I'm not really assuming that, despite the presence of several individuals in this thread that are indeed arguing that. Rather, I am just indicating that competitive Melee indeed does rely on a lot of moves like that, and I'm not a huge fan of it. Whether the community as a whole would agree with me or not isn't really the point.
I'd like to be clear that I am not arguing explicitly against Melee and in favor of Brawl. If I had to choose one of those two games, I'd choose Melee. It generally feels better to play. And I agree, there were changes in Brawl I am not a fan of. It's why I'm hopeful for SSB4 to bridge that gap. I would indeed prefer a game that more heavily requires mastery of the included evasive/defensive techniques, though, than one where most competitive play doesn't use them heavily. I want to see more sidesteps and rolls. More reads and baiting. Less dash dancing, shining (remove Fox's reflector entirely please), grab chaining, and laser spam.
It's only less accessible if you're someone who aspires to play competitively. At a base level, it's just as accessible as anything else. But when you want to make that transition, you can't just keep training at the core mechanics and getting really good at your prediction and execution. You have to learn a whole new way of playing the game, and all I really want is a high-level version of the game I've been playing all along.
I guess for me this doesn't really register at all. I'm not interested in SSB's status as an esport whatsoever. I really enjoyed watching the SSB4 1v1 matches at E3 and SDCC though, so I guess whatever the game is doing in that regard is already enough for me.
Anyway! On to oh god look at all these posts
I agree! To quote myself:
Me said:
I am really not trying to imply there shouldn't be a gulf in skills between newcomers and those who have trained and mastered a game. Rather, I think a newcomer should be able to watch a high-skill match and genuinely aspire to it. When I see a melee match between top-level space animals, I don't aspire to it. I think "what game am I watching?" It doesn't seem like a higher-level version of the game I love, it seems like a different game. I love seeing amazing reads, masterfully timed dodges, great followups. I don't like seeing a lot of the other things I see in the top-level Melee matches, though. Some of those are mechanical things (wavedashing et. all), but others are the combo-heavy focus granted by Melee's high speed and characters that can capitalize on it. I see a game that is about dominating via a combo, vs evasion and punishing evaded moves.
There was a time when I did a lot of wavedash training and got pretty alright with it. I feel like it kind of nullifies the intended evasion and movement systems a bit, which I'm not a huge fan of. I LIKE those systems. I feel like wavedash-heavy matches are a different game.
I find myself in this segment. I'd love to play a lot more SSB (assuming my schedule allowed for it), but the way I'd have to train, and the kind of things I'd have to get good at, make me not want to train for Melee. I am really excited for SSB4 as an opportunity to try and get into the scene again.
I agree with this. To a point, at least. I think it's maybe a bit disingenuous to claim that "competitive smash" is an entity that exists as a singular thing, beyond Sakurai's understanding. I think you might be able to make that case when referring only to Melee, and only to internet-focused communities. But I think there has always been a ton of competition in the series, and even in Melee, that hasn't adhered to what the vocal internet community has defined as "competitive smash." I feel almost like there were a ton of communities that got drowned out once the current one found its voice, and managed to find acknowledgement in the wider gaming community. And now that community has decided that "this is competitive Smash Brothers," and chides other notions.
Sure. And like I've said, I've always loved SSB because it wasn't that. That the current Melee competitive scene is that upsets me. It's turned a game, a series that I love into something I was trying to escape.
I think easy to get into difficult to master is definitely worthwhile. I just don't like that the Melee "difficult to master" entails playing it like it's a very different game, and largely leverages techniques that weren't really meant to be used that way they're being used.
I'm not really assuming that, despite the presence of several individuals in this thread that are indeed arguing that. Rather, I am just indicating that competitive Melee indeed does rely on a lot of moves like that, and I'm not a huge fan of it. Whether the community as a whole would agree with me or not isn't really the point.
I'd like to be clear that I am not arguing explicitly against Melee and in favor of Brawl. If I had to choose one of those two games, I'd choose Melee. It generally feels better to play. And I agree, there were changes in Brawl I am not a fan of. It's why I'm hopeful for SSB4 to bridge that gap. I would indeed prefer a game that more heavily requires mastery of the included evasive/defensive techniques, though, than one where most competitive play doesn't use them heavily. I want to see more sidesteps and rolls. More reads and baiting. Less dash dancing, shining (remove Fox's reflector entirely please), grab chaining, and laser spam.
It's only less accessible if you're someone who aspires to play competitively. At a base level, it's just as accessible as anything else. But when you want to make that transition, you can't just keep training at the core mechanics and getting really good at your prediction and execution. You have to learn a whole new way of playing the game, and all I really want is a high-level version of the game I've been playing all along.
I guess for me this doesn't really register at all. I'm not interested in SSB's status as an esport whatsoever. I really enjoyed watching the SSB4 1v1 matches at E3 and SDCC though, so I guess whatever the game is doing in that regard is already enough for me.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Brawl's airdodge being as spammable as it was isn't something I want to come back (you can only do it once in current builds of SSB4, right?), but I'm not fond of Melee's putting you into a free-fall or how it completely kills your momentum, even if that latter aspect is what lent itself to more advanced techniques when you landed.
While I agree with this at least it appears the Brawl dodges will be slightly more punishable in Smash 4 because iirc there's more landing lag as a result of using them.
WiiRevolution1
Member
Mainly due to popularity.
Like most impressions I've read, I liked SS quite abit, but it got fairly repeptitive after a couple hours and I eventually grew bored with it. And it seems like it got repetitive for most so thats why I didn't consoder it to be a contender for a eShop rep imo.
That, plus both Dillon and Pushmo have multiple games, Pushmo even has 3 so Nintendo is obviously pushing those series more. HarmoKnight was well received by pretty much everyone who played it, so thats why I thought only those three games could get in as a eShop rep.
Sm4sh's air dodge is just as spammable as Brawl and the higher landing lag (which is still quite small), isn't going to stop people from spamming it coming down from a juggle or trying to get back on the stage when the other person tries to jump off and edgeguard with some aerials.
If the endlag of the air dodge was larger, so that there are more than like, 10 frames between each air dodge, I might be fine with it.
As it stands, the nerf to airdodging in the E3 build is very mild and nowhere near enough.
In the SDCC tournament there was a game with two bowsers on gerudo valley, one bowser got knocked off the screen, but because he did nothing but spam the air dodge on his way down, the other bowser wasn't able to hit him with any aerials or a grounded attack when the other bowser did reach the ground.
I remember seeing that and thinking "oh god, it's definitely back".
I don't think anyone is advocating the return of wavedashing and L-canceling -- that's something people keep thinking what the majority of comp. players wants but really some of the more vocal players who say they want L-canceling/WDing back comes from a deep lack of understanding on just what Melee does different on a core level from Brawl.
Wavedashing and L-canceling helped Melee. But it's definitely not just those two things that made it what it is today. It is the sum of all the parts that make Melee what it is.
Just shaving recovery frames for when aerials land or when you perform certain attacks you know should be safe isn't enough -- nor would momentum conservation when you jump (though those things would help immensely and is the least I ask for). You need actual shieldstun (or, in fighting game terms, block stun) -- you need to make the defensive options less powerful. In Brawl, the development team buffed defense in multiple ways:
1) You can air dodge more than once in the air with no landing lag (so it always goes unpunishable unless you bait the air dodge out). Plus, characters air dodge inuln. frames and animation lengths differed (this isn't necessarily bad but a uniform air dodge length would help to allow characters to punish ones that had quick air dodges -- in fact I think MK had the quickest air dodge out of the entire cast).
2) Spotdodging/sidestepping has less commitment and more invuln. frames -- hell sometimes some characters don't return to the X-axis even after their invuln. frames have ended (see: DDD's spotdodge) furthering to help make that particular option strong.
3) You can drop your shield quickly -- there's no recovery frames for dropping your shield in Brawl. In Melee, there was at least 14 frames of recovery (though for some reason this varied on some characters, if I remember correctly Bowser and DK have 1 or 2 frames more of shield drop lag). Making it a consistent amount of lag to drop your shield would weaken the options you have in many situations when you're defending.
4) There's absolutely no shieldstun in Brawl meaning anything and everything can be shieldgrabbed. This made shieldgrabbing a stupidly powerful option when previously it wasn't that powerful. Only a small percentage of attacks in Brawl can be safe on shields and that's only if you space it perfectly or you're Meta Knight and you have insanely low cooldown on everything.
5) Rolls were buffed as well (though not insanely like some of the other options). And in Smash 4 it looks like rolls were buffed even further for some strange reason (but we'll have to wait and see for final judgment on that).
Those are just 5 things off the top of my head that made defense so good in Brawl. But it wasn't just because they buffed defense that made defense reign supreme, it was also because they crippled every offense-related option.
Defense really shouldn't be as extremely good as it was in Brawl and I'm hoping none of the above carry over into Smash 4 but I have a feeling it will (just judging by the E3 demo we've seen a lot, many moves still look insanely unsafe on shield because of the potential lack of shieldstun). We'll see, though, it may just have been such an early enough of a build that they didn't get into the balancing of how safe moves should be on-shields or how good shielding is in general.
Just making things faster isn't going to fix the above problems and I hope the development team/Sakurai are not naive enough to think that.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Bad news, Shadow is in the game as AT.
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