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Super Street Fighter 4 Æ |OT5| Waiting to go from Super to Ultra

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R

Rice-Eater

Member
biosnake20 said:
I'm talking about in Ultra where Ryu can combo into the full cinematic U2 with EX DP. U2 is more damaging to combo into and to punish with and can be comboed into just like U1 in most ways. On top of that the only "utility" U1 has is being able to combo in a few more situations, punishing other fireball characters, and maybe a few other character specific punishes here and there. But other than those matchups why not use U2? Why would you give up on the huge amount of damage and anti air ability that the U2 can give you?
Click to expand...

Gotta look at the pros and cons. Ultra 1 is a much more reliable Ultra to combo into and does a lot more damage in every situation except one. Ultra 2 gives you a decent anti air and a better punish with one really damaging combo option.

For most people it's not about damage, it's about reliability. Most Ryu players feel more confident about landing Ultra 1 over full Ultra 2, and in the end that's all that matters. It's part of the reason why most Gouken players choose U2 over U1 for most of their match ups even though the damage is far less.

When USF4 comes out, I can see many Ryu players choosing U2 just because of the temptation of landing that EX DP, FADC, U2 combo. But I think most tournament Ryu players will stick to Ultra 1 for the reasons I stated.

Marz said:
Can you do ex fireball or ex tatsu in the corner to Ultra 2 like you can with Ultra 1? That's mainly what I mean by more utility, makes Ryus corner pressure a lot better.
Click to expand...

It works with EX tatsu but not EX fireball.
 
O

Onemic

Member
I got a question about teching throws, how is it that certain people I have sets with are able to psychically know when I'm going to throw them or not in every situation during pressure? Ive been doing a few endless sets with a steam buddy and he seems to be able to tech any throw I give him when I pressure him during wakeup. I'll switch it up to frame traps because I assume he's mashing crouch tech to accomplish this and he'll revert to blocking everything. This is over a 3 hour set too and I think I was only ever able to successfully throw him during pressure once or twice and I was never able to catch him trying to tech with a frame trap. He was pretty much able to tech throws and block framtraps at the same time, almost like it was automatic. Is there a technique to this? I've noticed this in ranked and shorter endless sets before, but now I'm thinking if it can really be so simple as someone is literally reading my mind with a 99% success rate.
 
T

Threi

notag
Depends, but some people use late rhythmic teching (i.e. pressing the button the same time as the opponent's blockstring hits instead of simply mashing it out)
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
I think the fact that he's a friend of yours and you guys probably play each other a lot has something to do with it. He can probably recognize your timing for doing such things. The other thing is that a lot people delay their throw/crouch tech and don't mash it out.

For example jab or short into throw is a popular thing to do. I'll tech once after seeing that first normal. And if I see multiple normals I don't tech at all anymore because I'm normally out of throw range unless I see my opponent walk forward a bit. Even if you go for a frame trap and your opponent pressed buttons, he may have delayed it enough so that nothing came out. That puts the onus on you to take a bigger risk and go for a longer delay which may result in you getting thrown or put in frame disadvantage.

You have to try your best to recognize these ranges and your opponents habits. It's all a guess in the end though no matter how familiar you are with your opponent.
 
B

black_vegeta

Member
Onemic said:
I got a question about teching throws, how is it that certain people I have sets with are able to psychically know when I'm going to throw them or not in every situation during pressure? Ive been doing a few endless sets with a steam buddy and he seems to be able to tech any throw I give him when I pressure him during wakeup. I'll switch it up to frame traps because I assume he's mashing crouch tech to accomplish this and he'll revert to blocking everything. This is over a 3 hour set too and I think I was only ever able to successfully throw him during pressure once or twice and I was never able to catch him trying to tech with a frame trap. He was pretty much able to tech throws and block framtraps at the same time, almost like it was automatic. Is there a technique to this? I've noticed this in ranked and shorter endless sets before, but now I'm thinking if it can really be so simple as someone is literally reading my mind with a 99% success rate.
Click to expand...

You do get in a pattern. You don't mix it up.

ex. jump rh, c.lp, c.lk, throw

or

jump rh, c.lp, throw.

Rinse and repeat, ResidentSleeper
 
X

xCobalt

Member
Rice-Eater said:
I think the fact that he's a friend of yours and you guys probably play each other a lot has something to do with it. He can probably recognize your timing for doing such things. The other thing is that a lot people delay their throw/crouch tech and don't mash it out.

For example jab or short into throw is a popular thing to do. I'll tech once after seeing that first normal. And if I see multiple normals I don't tech at all anymore because I'm normally out of throw range unless I see my opponent walk forward a bit. Even if you go for a frame trap and your opponent pressed buttons, he may have delayed it enough so that nothing came out. That puts the onus on you to take a bigger risk and go for a longer delay which may result in you getting thrown or put in frame disadvantage.

You have to try your best to recognize these ranges and your opponents habits. It's all a guess in the end though no matter how familiar you are with your opponent.
Click to expand...

Great points.

You should have numerous frame traps that account for a delayed crouch tech. As a gouken player, I often do crouching jab into crouching fierce. That's a 6 frame gap but it works quite often. I've also done crouching jab into far fierce which is an 8 frame gap. Try to figure out the timing and narrow down what frame traps are more likely to work.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
Just watched the (official) rematch between Sanford and Rico (after Sanford annihilated his stick in a salt-filled defeat, lol)

For the fellow Johnny Come Latelys, here's the match. Their games start at 5:49

SHIT WAS HYPE....and the commentary was hilarious xD

Spoiler:
Sanford won, 2-1. And it was kinda hilarious how muted the reaction was from the audience/spectators. Seemed like they wanted Rico to win. Or maybe it just wasn't as spectacular as their last encounter
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
Versatility over damage, most of the time. Sakura's U1 does more damage but you can land her U2 in a few more ways, making it the ultra of choice.

In 3rd Strike, there are some exceptions (Sean's super 2 over 1, Ryu's super 2 isn't a bad choice despite it neutering his EX game), but for the most part its versatility.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Rice-Eater said:
I think the fact that he's a friend of yours and you guys probably play each other a lot has something to do with it. He can probably recognize your timing for doing such things. The other thing is that a lot people delay their throw/crouch tech and don't mash it out.

For example jab or short into throw is a popular thing to do. I'll tech once after seeing that first normal. And if I see multiple normals I don't tech at all anymore because I'm normally out of throw range unless I see my opponent walk forward a bit. Even if you go for a frame trap and your opponent pressed buttons, he may have delayed it enough so that nothing came out. That puts the onus on you to take a bigger risk and go for a longer delay which may result in you getting thrown or put in frame disadvantage.

You have to try your best to recognize these ranges and your opponents habits. It's all a guess in the end though no matter how familiar you are with your opponent.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, I got a lot of work to do on my pressure/mixup game then

black_vegeta said:
You do get in a pattern. You don't mix it up.

ex. jump rh, c.lp, c.lk, throw

or

jump rh, c.lp, throw.

Rinse and repeat, ResidentSleeper
Click to expand...

Ya, you got me straight shook. The times I ever got in, my nerves always got the best of me, so I just kept doing the same shit, hoping it would work. I was so afraid to walk forward against you and whenever I did, I would eat normals and tiger shots all day ;_;
 
D

direct_quote

Member
Onemic said:
Thanks for this, I got a lot of work to do on my pressure/mixup game then



Ya, you got me straight shook. The times I ever got in, my nerves always got the best of me, so I just kept doing the same shit, hoping it would work. I was so afraid to walk forward against you and whenever I did, I would eat normals and tiger shots all day ;_;
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity who are you playing..
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
You still play Yun? Well Yun is one of those characters that can really blow up crouch tech. He can use dive kick to whiff punish or cross up dive kick. You get full combo if they crouch, but not if they stand. If you notice your opponent is doing stand tech then start your block string with a low and confirm off that.

Their is also his command throw. You have to be careful with it though since he takes a while to recover from that. But just condition your opponent into sitting still and don't spam it too often and you'll find that it's a strong tool to use. I basically just spam this stuff and I land a lot of throws as Yun because people are afraid to tech.

I don't know how you play nowadays but from what I remember of playing your Yun I don't think you were playing to his strengths. You weren't using cross up dives or command throw and was basically just doing the typical block strings. And if you confirmed, you ended it in shoulder instead of up kicks or lunge. Sure it's safer but you get no oki(or vortex if that's more familiar) off that. Now sure how you play nowadays, but it would be good if you start using these tools in matches.
 
D

direct_quote

Member
The Mango Sentinel said:
Alright so when does Ultra drop? And is there a list of all the changes? I need to see what characters I'm gonna be using.
Click to expand...

PlayStation 3, Xbox 360
Digital Upgrade Version: June 2014 – $14.99/€14.99
Retail & Digital Full Version: August 2014 – $39.99/€39.99
PC
Digital Upgrade Version: August 2014 – $14.99/€14.99
Digital Full Version: August 2014 – $29.99/€29.99

http://shoryuken.com/2014/04/10/ultra-street-fighter-iv-final-change-list-released/
 
O

Onemic

Member
Rice-Eater said:
You still play Yun? Well Yun is one of those characters that can really blow up crouch tech. He can use dive kick to whiff punish or cross up dive kick. You get full combo if they crouch, but not if they stand. If you notice your opponent is doing stand tech then start your block string with a low and confirm off that.

Their is also his command throw. You have to be careful with it though since he takes a while to recover from that. But just condition your opponent into sitting still and don't spam it too often and you'll find that it's a strong tool to use. I basically just spam this stuff and I land a lot of throws as Yun because people are afraid to tech.

I don't know how you play nowadays but from what I remember of playing your Yun I don't think you were playing to his strengths. You weren't using cross up dives or command throw and was basically just doing the typical block strings. And if you confirmed, you ended it in shoulder instead of up kicks or lunge. Sure it's safer but you get no oki(or vortex if that's more familiar) off that. Now sure how you play nowadays, but it would be good if you start using these tools in matches.
Click to expand...

currently im training Oni to eventually replace Yun as my main in Ultra, but ya, I still main Yun. I dont play exactly like I did before, though similar. We should play a set again if you have the chance.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Onemic said:
I've noticed this in ranked and shorter endless sets before, but now I'm thinking if it can really be so simple as someone is literally reading my mind with a 99% success rate.
Click to expand...

You're probably being a lot more predictable than you think you are being.
 
M

Marz

Member
So I'm guessing Sagat being able to cancel his s. lK on the second hit isn't that big of a deal? Haven't seen Bonchan or Super Santo Roman use it much at all.

Also Mago considering switching to Chun, she looks to be strong.

Seems like a lot of characters caught up to the top of the cast and the top stayed really good...at least from early impressions.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Rentahamster said:
You're probably being a lot more predictable than you think you are being.
Click to expand...

Well, that too, of course. But I asked him and it was like E.Ryu said, he was just delay teching everything so he could defend against both.

How do you practice delay teching in the lab exactly?
 
D

direct_quote

Member
Marz said:
So I'm guessing Sagat being able to cancel his s. lK on the second hit isn't that big of a deal? Haven't seen Bonchan or Super Santo Roman use it much at all.

Also Mago considering switching to Chun, she looks to be strong.

Seems like a lot of characters caught up to the top of the cast and the top stayed really good...at least from early impressions.
Click to expand...
So you still going to stick to Sagat then? What are his bad matchups anyway, Akuma, Guile, Viper?
 
M

Marz

Member
direct_quote said:
So you still going to stick to Sagat then? What are his bad matchups anyway, Akuma, Guile, Viper?
Click to expand...

He struggles against the vortex characters like Seth, Cammy, Akuma, Ibuki etc. Or characters with amazing footsies like Fei, Ad on, Gen. Then his tall hitbox makes him susceptible to lots of the ambiguous setups and unblockables. He does good against the dive kick characters though its kind of weird haha.

But yea I don't plan on switching, delayed wakeup and stuff will make his life a lot easier. I'm still at just trying to learn the game anyways I'm not at the level where I care too much about character strength yet.

You're dropping Seth right?
 
D

direct_quote

Member
Marz said:
He struggles against the vortex characters like Seth, Cammy, Akuma, Ibuki etc. Or characters with amazing footsies like Fei, Ad on, Gen. Then his tall hitbox makes him susceptible to lots of the ambiguous setups and unblockables. He does good against the dive kick characters though its kind of weird haha.

But yea I don't plan on switching, delayed wakeup and stuff will make his life a lot easier. I'm still at just trying to learn the game anyways I'm not at the level where I care too much about character strength yet.

You're dropping Seth right?
Click to expand...
Probably lol. I haven't really played Seth hardcore for a while after spending more time with Yun. Even though Yun is getting slightly nerfed I think I'll have fun doing his red focus combo into 700 stun (or I'll play Yang).
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
C

CountBlack

Member
direct_quote said:
What version will you use in edition select.
Click to expand...

kanyesmile.gif
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
Onemic said:
How do you practice delay teching in the lab exactly?
Click to expand...

Best advice I can give you is to set the dummy to doing empty jump throw and empty jump DP. This way you can practice being able to tech throws, but to not do them so quickly so that you get hit by stuff. I guess you can start with shoto's and their fast 3f DP's and then move your way down to characters with slower invincible reversals or moves that just dodge throws.

At some point, certain moves will just be too slow and you're going to get hit no matter what as long as you throw tech at some point. Stuff like Cody's EX zonk or Adon's jaguar kicks give you plenty of time to tech and to get blown up for doing it. So sometimes it's best just to get do it at all, but that will depend on the character.
 
A

alstein

Member
NaM said:
Damn, 2 months between pc an console releases? :/
Click to expand...

I believe it's to encourage double dipping. The timeframe is such I might just do it, even if I hate PSN. It's either that or I play anime or Tekken for a couple months.

The thing is I don't want to play games that are dead online, because even if I like the game, if no one's playing I can't play.
 
X

xCobalt

Member
jtenma said:
NOPE. All ROL had to do was neutral jump.

If ROL plays anything like my beloved
un-nerfed
xTekken version, he has an amazing neutral game.
Click to expand...

You didn't see how Condor Spire hit Rolento out of the air? How about when he kept getting jabbed during his pre jump frames?
 
A

alstein

Member
xCobalt said:
You didn't see how Condor Spire hit Rolento out of the air? How about when he kept getting jabbed during his pre jump frames?
Click to expand...

Isn't Condor spire - on hit/block still? Yeah, Hawk might be able to blow up some stuff with an EX grab, but you should be able to get out of that.

Hawk's going to drop in the tiers once this game gets discovered anyways. Low combo chars always drop in the tiers as a game moves.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Spire is + on block, or very close to positive, if you hit on the last few active frames.

LP Spire got made into -2 on hit which means it should be positive if you hit it on the last frame, allowing you to combo if you have impeccable spacing for it.
 
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