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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT3| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!

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S

SmokeMaxX

Member
chriskun said:
yeah, honda has amazing damage, but has hardly any options with how to deal it. I don't understand why hes getting so much hate. EX headbutt is godlike sure but other than that he has pretty much nothing on wake up. Playing against shotos is still a fucking nightmare also. Also, I dont see how the Balrog and Bison matchups are 5-5, biggest crock of shit.
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Hardly any options with how to deal it? You serious?
Jab-hands-st.rh is a super easy combo and does ~260 damage. It's pretty much safe as E Honda's jab hits the highest out of all jabs in the game and has the most disjointed hitbox (meaning, it has the largest amount of range where Honda can hit you but you can't hit Honda) out of all jabs in the game (except maybe Vega's). Here's the hitbox for cr. jab: http://otersi.com/00_interesting_frames/honda_cjab.png

You can also do other combos (cr. jab xx ex hundred hands slap loop) for more damage or cr. jab xx hands xx super for about 500 damage. Honda has some of the best jump-ins in the game and neutral jump fierce punch is godlike. Honda also has pretty good defense with or without meter, which can be a pain for most characters to initiate offense on him (or he'll tag them with st. rh if they try to walk up to him).

On wakeup, Honda's best reversal is obviously ex-headbutt. It's safe from a vast majority of the cast and is very easy to auto-correct crossups (with 8 frames of invincibility). It also does a lot of damage. He can also wakeup with ochio throw if someone's trying to bait your attacks or buttslam if someone's trying to throw you on wakeup. His wakeup isn't "the best" but considering he has the ex-headbutt, most characters don't want to be that close to him (even if they safe jump him, they don't know when he'll reversal ex-headbutt through frame traps or throw attempts). There's a reason that Honda pretty much only loses to good fireball characters.

As for Honda-Bison/Honda-Balrog:
Most high level Bison players will tell you Honda is Bison's 2nd worst matchup in Super. It's definitely 6/4 Honda.
Balrog-Honda is definitely 5-5 or pretty close. They both have excellent defense and offense. They both do a lot of damage quickly. They both can lame each other out. Both jabs are godlike. They both have excellent options for a majority of the situations they'll be put in. I think Balrog/Honda is an example of one of the matchups where it gets heavily tilted when one player knows the matchup better than the other player.
 
T

Threi

notag
soooo good

i loved it when the dan player backdashed flash's lp dash punch

"he's like a ninja!"

*edit*


daaaaamn that dan is gdlk lmao
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
Lost Fragment said:
Jab -> hands is super easy? I don't play much Honda, but I can't do that shit consistently.
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It's just something that requires practice like pretty much any combo in the game. You have quite a long time to cancel jab into hands and there are several methods that you can use to make it easier. Slide method doesn't really require any execution, just timing. The harder piano method still isn't that bad if you practice and exercise your hands. The good thing about this is that you can realistically practice for jab-hands at any place at any time. Just tap your fingers on any hard surface and you're practicing pianoing jab hands. I like 1-2-3-1-3, but many other piano players prefer 1-3-2-1-3.

EDIT: I think the "hard" part of the combo is the st. rh at the end, but you just have to remember to do it late and plink it. Also even if you miss the hands part, you can confirm it and go for another jab hands (beats jump-aways) or ochio throw (beats blocking).
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
Lost Fragment said:
Jab -> hands is super easy? I don't play much Honda, but I can't do that shit consistently.
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Yeah, maybe super easy for people who play piano. For people like me, I can do it for my first few matches, then my hands hurt and just won't move that fast anymore.
 
N

ntropy

Member
LakeEarth said:
Yeah, maybe super easy for people who play piano. For people like me, I can do it for my first few matches, then my hands hurt and just won't move that fast anymore.
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my guess is that you're tightening your wrist when you piano. if you practice it without tension in the wrist, you shouldn't feel anything.
also, move only the knuckle joint for efficiency.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
Also, I recommend Sanwa buttons and keeping your fingers really close to the buttons. When you practice, press hard and fast to get your fingers conditioned. When you play, keep your fingers relaxed to avoid strain.
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
I think I've played that Dan before. Pretty sure he chills in Peaceful Jay's stream.

SmokeMaxX said:
It's just something that requires practice like pretty much any combo in the game. You have quite a long time to cancel jab into hands and there are several methods that you can use to make it easier. Slide method doesn't really require any execution, just timing. The harder piano method still isn't that bad if you practice and exercise your hands. The good thing about this is that you can realistically practice for jab-hands at any place at any time. Just tap your fingers on any hard surface and you're practicing pianoing jab hands. I like 1-2-3-1-3, but many other piano players prefer 1-3-2-1-3.

EDIT: I think the "hard" part of the combo is the st. rh at the end, but you just have to remember to do it late and plink it. Also even if you miss the hands part, you can confirm it and go for another jab hands (beats jump-aways) or ochio throw (beats blocking).
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call any combo that requires a lot of practice "super easy." I can do fierce feint fierce 100 times in a row so it's easy at this point for me, but getting to that point was the result of a lot of practice. Even using the slide method for Honda's jab -> hands requires a fair bit more practice than a lot of combos if you want to be reasonably consistent. But maybe I just suck with characters that have those kinds of moves. Iuno.

As for Honda's wakeup, it's not bad compared to like, Sakura or Makoto or Hakan, but a lot of characters can option select the shit out of him. Doesn't matter if ex headbutt is safe on block if Makoto, for example, can option select U1 and beat any button he can press on wakeup. Even if they just safejump and block the ex headbutt, it's not a free gamble because it costs meter. He has great defense though obviously, but only when he's on his feet for the most part. His defense dives pretty hard once his back's on the ground.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
Lost Fragment said:
I think I've played that Dan before. Pretty sure he chills in Peaceful Jay's stream.

I wouldn't call any combo that requires a lot of practice "super easy." I can do fierce feint fierce 100 times in a row so it's easy at this point for me, but getting to that point was the result of a lot of practice. Even using the slide method for Honda's jab -> hands requires a fair bit more practice than a lot of combos if you want to be reasonably consistent. But maybe I just suck with characters that have those kinds of moves. Iuno.

As for Honda's wakeup, it's not bad compared to like, Sakura or Makoto or Hakan, but a lot of characters can option select the shit out of him. Doesn't matter if ex headbutt is safe on block if Makoto, for example, can option select U1 and beat any button he can press on wakeup. Even if they just safejump and block the ex headbutt, it's not a free gamble because it costs meter. He has great defense though obviously, but only when he's on his feet for the most part. His defense dives pretty hard once his back's on the ground.
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I guess I'd consider it easy because there's a ton of leniency once you get the motion down. I'd say it's harder than Chun's short-short-exlegs, much much easier than Blanka's jab xx elec, and I have no idea about Gen's mk-hands. It's pretty hard to miss jab-hands once you get good at it and there's not really a risk since if you miss the hands, all you did was force them to eat/block a jab. One-frame link combos have that one frame timing plus they're generally unsafe if you miss.

And yeah, I'm not accounting for Option selects, but all Honda has to do is block and then ex-headbutt through the block string. This isn't always a viable option (something like Dudley's Rolling Sundah will catch it anyway) and it IS a "waste of meter" but compared to most other moves in the game, it's extremely safe and the risk/reward of the move is through the roof. Honda also gets out of close range where he can sometimes get worked by those with 3 frame attacks.
 
T

Threi

notag
it really sucks that DeeJay got so many buffs and still remains one of the least-used chars on the entire roster. Hopefully that will change in the future, im sure someone can destroy JWong or Ricky Ortiz with him in AE :)

Also, didn't know that they changed his EX MGU so that it's throw invincible now...that's actually a nice buff and makes its a better reversal (sorta)
 
U

USD

Member
Yoshichan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm13sikOlI4&feature=feedu

New Adventures of Gootecks, WOW THAT DAN!!!!!!
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Mike got trolled so hard.

hwndb9nb.gif


hwnd2a9p6.gif


hwnd3wa7q.gif
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
Threi said:
it really sucks that DeeJay got so many buffs and still remains one of the least-used chars on the entire roster. Hopefully that will change in the future, im sure someone can destroy JWong or Ricky Ortiz with him in AE :)
Click to expand...
Would you be mad if JWong or RickyO bodied someone while using Deejay?
 
T

Threi

notag
_dementia said:
Would you be mad if JWong or RickyO bodied someone while using Deejay?
Click to expand...
Only if it was through random select, which is currently the only way to see high level players using him :(
 
S

Satyamdas

Banned
Oichi is gdlk. Thanks for the translation, sir.

Okay, finally, how’s Juri? Compared to SSFIV she’s gotten a power boost
Daigo: Hate Juri. I don’t know why though.

My thoughts exactly, Señor Beast. Except I do know why I hate her. I don't like her character design, her small frame, her voice (in either Jap or Eng), her stupid fireballs or pinwheels or dive kick or counter moves, etc. I just plain don't like Juri. >:|

But I DO like AkumaHokoru. =3
 
hitsugi

hitsugi

Member
The random Juri hate at the end was great :x I feel like I want to like Juri, but I can't... and it's been that way since I first saw her
 
chriskun

chriskun

Member
Lost Fragment said:
I think I've played that Dan before. Pretty sure he chills in Peaceful Jay's stream.



I wouldn't call any combo that requires a lot of practice "super easy." I can do fierce feint fierce 100 times in a row so it's easy at this point for me, but getting to that point was the result of a lot of practice. Even using the slide method for Honda's jab -> hands requires a fair bit more practice than a lot of combos if you want to be reasonably consistent. But maybe I just suck with characters that have those kinds of moves. Iuno.

As for Honda's wakeup, it's not bad compared to like, Sakura or Makoto or Hakan, but a lot of characters can option select the shit out of him. Doesn't matter if ex headbutt is safe on block if Makoto, for example, can option select U1 and beat any button he can press on wakeup. Even if they just safejump and block the ex headbutt, it's not a free gamble because it costs meter. He has great defense though obviously, but only when he's on his feet for the most part. His defense dives pretty hard once his back's on the ground.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I think the only reason why people have a hard time playing honda is because they dont know how easy it is to deal with him. Im sort of going off on a limb here, but I think there would be way more people that play him if he was so good.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
cHaotix8 said:
Honda is a scrub buster. If you can't anti air and your footsies suck he'll probably maul you.
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Funny how I don't see most of Dallas knocking Arthur out of tournies much (guess they're scrubs). Also, you say this as a character that can very easily deal with ex-headbutts, so Honda's forced to deal with your pressure. If I get in on Honda, I have to respect the ex-headbutt and even if I block it, Honda gets out for free (minus one meter).

EDIT: Ease of use is part of why a character gets played so much. There are a ton of Kens in vanilla, doesn't mean he's good. Likewise, there aren't a lot of Viper players- doesn't mean she's bad. Hell, in vanilla there were very few high level Sagat players in the US.
 
E

El Sloth

Banned
Oh my god, the new Excellent Adventures is a thing of beauty. I couldn't stop laughing. That Dan player basically OCV'd them.

hWnd for EVO 2011 Top 3.
 
C

cHaotix8

Member
SmokeMaxX said:
Funny how I don't see most of Dallas knocking Arthur out of tournies much (guess they're scrubs). Also, you say this as a character that can very easily deal with ex-headbutts, so Honda's forced to deal with your pressure. If I get in on Honda, I have to respect the ex-headbutt and even if I block it, Honda gets out for free (minus one meter).
Click to expand...

Arthur doesn't do well because he picks Honda, he does well because he's good. And just because Dudley can punish headbutts doesn't make the matchup any less awful. That's like saying Ryu has to take my pressure because I can punish DP.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
cHaotix8 said:
Arthur doesn't do well because he picks Honda, he does well because he's good. And just because Dudley can punish headbutts doesn't make the matchup any less awful. That's like saying Ryu has to take my pressure because I can punish DP.
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Arthur is a great player, don't get me wrong. And Honda is a scrub killer. But he's also a legitimately good character. Bad against most fireball characters, but rapes pretty much the rest of the cast (or goes even).

And Dudley being able to Ultra his primarily escape option DOES make the matchup less awful. That means Honda pretty much has to sit there and take it unless he gets a good read on you. Since he has to take it, that gives you plenty of opportunities to do your high-low-throw mixup game. I mean, seriously- how much worse would the matchup be if you couldn't do jack shit about ex-headbutt? You block it and now you have to work to get in all over again.
 
C

cHaotix8

Member
SmokeMaxX said:
Arthur is a great player, don't get me wrong. And Honda is a scrub killer. But he's also a legitimately good character. Bad against most fireball characters, but rapes pretty much the rest of the cast (or goes even).

And Dudley being able to Ultra his primarily escape option DOES make the matchup less awful. That means Honda pretty much has to sit there and take it unless he gets a good read on you. Since he has to take it, that gives you plenty of opportunities to do your high-low-throw mixup game. I mean, seriously- how much worse would the matchup be if you couldn't do jack shit about ex-headbutt? You block it and now you have to work to get in all over again.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. If I do anything except for block/safejump then there is no high low mixup, which means he gets up for free. He has the exact same risk as Ryu.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
cHaotix8 said:
No it doesn't. If I do anything except for block/safejump then there is no high low mixup, which means he gets up for free. He has the exact same risk as Ryu.
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What? You can meaty him. If he ex-headbutts you (assuming you don't have anything that would recover before his 8 frame startup), then you take 160 damage. If you fake meaty him and you recover faster in time to block his ex-headbutt, he takes like over 400 damage.
 
C

cHaotix8

Member
SmokeMaxX said:
What? You can meaty him. If he ex-headbutts you (assuming you don't have anything that would recover before his 8 frame startup), then you take 160 damage. If you fake meaty him and you recover faster in time to block his ex-headbutt, he takes like over 400 damage.
Click to expand...

You're still missing the point but whatever dude.
 
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