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[perfectchaos007]

1/3rd of the vote in and Cruz leads Alaska

 

[MartyStu]

The corruption from crony appointments should he get into office will make Grants stint look amateurish.

Nah, Grant still wins.

He did all that whilst drunk.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Clinton also polls better with higher income, older folk. Do you reckon those are minority voters?

We're talking about Sanders folks who are willing to throw in with Trump, a lot of the posters expressing concern about that are in fact... drum roll.... minorities.

 

[SneakersSO]

I know this post is probably going to be meaningless to you considering the bile I spewed in my first post addressing you, but I just wanna say again: sorry that I was such an unmitigated shithead to you the other day.

(And for what it's worth, +1 on the actual subject matter of this post. Even if you're not gonna vote for Clinton, you may as well still make your voice heard, because it's ultimately your choice.)

All good man, I take none of this stuff personally. It's a gaming message board talking about politics during an election - passion is gonna run high no matter which way you lean or why.

 

[Prodigal Son]

The left can lock up this country for decades and are going to blow it due to stupid ass in-fighting.

We're fine. It's much worse for the GOP with Trump.

 

[East Lake]

He has done a great job of making people believe he isn't. It seems clear as day but apparently it's not even clear to some current Bernie supporters.

Bernie has railed extremely hard against trump. I don't get it.

It's because there's more to moneyed interests than tax cuts. Basically rigging the game for corporate welfare, which whether you think he's honest or not is something Trump complains about.

 

[Chezzymann]

Its amazing how trump manages to take all the spotlight. I wouldn't be surprised if during primary discussions so far his name has been mentioned at least twice as much as obama, which in my opinion would have easily been the most focused on person had trump not ran

 

[hodayathink]

I actually disagree here.
Let's take minimum wage for example. Sanders says 15. Clinton says 12.5 I think.
Now republicans will oppose both and dems will have to compromise. If you start from 15 you might get 12. If ask for 12.5 you will get 10.

This was Obama's problem. His first offer was already a compromise and then he got railroaded.

That said, I do think Hillary will be more effective and ruthless than Obama, which is why I supporter her in 08.

That's not how it'll happen, though. Dems will ask for $15, the Republicans will say no, and then they won't budge. It won't matter where you started at. When looking at an obstructionist Congress, where you started literally won't matter if they decide they aren't going to budge regardless (for a current example, look at the Supreme Court nomination proceedings).

And even if they weren't being obstructionist, I'd argue that's not how compromise in politics actually works. It's not about where you start at, it's about how much leverage you have. If you have enough leverage to get $12, you'll get it whether you start at $15 or $13 (or maybe even $12).

This is a more bigoted view than anything Trump has said.

Hillary supporters: "If you don't vote for Hillary in the general then you are an idiot. You are young and clueless. You're ignorant. You're racist. You don't care about America. You know nothing about politics."

Have you considered the possibility that some people just plain don't like her?

Not liking her is one thing. Declaring you're going to vote for a candidate that goes against nearly everything that your current supported candidate is fighting for simply because you don't like her is something entirely different.

 

[nomis]

The left can lock up this country for decades and are going to blow it due to stupid ass in-fighting.

Bernie supporters claiming they'll stay home or vote Trump in the general if Clinton is nominated are the political equivalent of these guys:

But sure, they would rather hand Trump the nuclear codes instead of a less progressive Democrat.

 

[MThanded]

It's because there's more to moneyed interests than tax cuts. Basically rigging the game for corporate welfare, which whether you think he's honest or not is something Trump complains about.

Have you seen his tax plan?

He complains about but his policy states otherwise.

 

[boiled goose]

Spoilers Clinton's got the minority vote. Try again.

Oh I know that. She is massively winning with AA. Massively.
But it is not like only one demographic votes right?

My argument was against a specific group of people making specific arguments.
Whether African Americans should support Hillary over Bernie is an interesting conversation. Lots of nuance and substance here in addition to just the numbers.

My criticism was clearly and specifically aimed at the comfy white voters wrapping themselves in the minority flag while refusing to understand why others (including minorities) cant afford to maintain the status quo.

 

[Prodigal Son]

We're talking about Sanders folks who are willing to throw in with Trump, a lot of the posters expressing concern about that are in fact... drum roll.... minorities.

Don't know if that's what boiled goose was addressing when he said that many Clinton supporters are rich, status quo types. My only point is that she is unquestionably doing better with upper-class, especially privileged rich whites than Sanders is.

Bernie supporters claiming they'll stay home or vote Trump in the general if Clinton is nominated are the political equivalent of these guys:

But sure, they would rather hand Trump the nuclear codes instead of a less progressive Democrat.

Stop using this dumb picture. This was an open, joke group in steam. The image means virtually nothing.

EDIT: It's also a fucking awful example. It takes effort to go out and vote. If you don't want to you won't. That's a farcry away from playing a video game you want to boycott but also want to play.

 

[mo60]

It looks cruz does not want donald to win over 70% of the Super Tuesday states.He's leading in Alaska right now.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Oh I know that. She is massively winning with AA. Massively.
But it is not like only one demographic votes right?

My argument was against a specific group of people making specific arguments.
Whether African Americans should support Hillary over Bernie is an interesting conversation. Lots of nuance and substance here in addition to just the numbers.

My criticism was clearly and specifically aimed at the comfy white voters wrapping themselves in the minority flag while refusing to understand why others (including minorities) cant afford to maintain the status quo.

Many people expressing the concern are minorities.

Donald Trump changes the quo for the worse. We all know that ergo voting for him as a protest vote is a fuck you to minority and women rights

 

[Ecotic]

C'mon Cruz you bastard, win Alaska and force Rubio from the race and then pull a miracle and upset Donald for the nomination.

 

[metalslimer]

Oh I know that. She is massively winning with AA. Massively.
But it is not like only one demographic votes right?

My argument was against a specific group of people making specific arguments.
Whether African Americans should support Hillary over Bernie is an interesting conversation. Lots of nuance and substance here in addition to just the numbers.

My criticism was clearly and specifically aimed at the comfy white voters wrapping themselves in the minority flag while refusing to understand why others (including minorities) cant afford to maintain the status quo.

And as a black gay male it is infuriating how someone who could vote for sanders would then turn around and vote for someone that would halt progress for decades. To be honest ough, I don't think this groups represents a significant number that would sway the election.

 

[Alcander]

Has to have been posted already but I liked this enough I'll repost it.

http://twitter.com/albz/status/704907566040653826

So perfect! A slightly better variant IMO https://twitter.com/Seinfeld2000/status/704890084881883136

I can't stop laughing

 

[boiled goose]

You seem to be thinking that I'm talking to all sanders supporters when my original post was only aimed at the sanders supporters who say they will support trump instead despite him being a complete 180 on all the issues Bernie cares about.

I disagree with this.
There is one thing that Bernie and Trump have in common that is the thing that this group desperately craves. That is the whole point.

And as a black gay male it is infuriating how someone who could vote for sanders would then turn around and vote for someone that would halt progress for decades. To be honest ough, I don't think this groups represents a significant number that would sway the election.

I think you certainly have that right to be furious. But to me you should aim part of you fury elsewhere. Specifically, holding our government officials accountable.

For some reason, we respond differently to this.
When I see a supporter switching from Bernie to Trump instead of Hillary, I think they are silly, but I don't put all of the blame on them.
Instead I see how much of a fucking mess we have and how much our governmental system is failing tons of people. All while the rich are raking it in at record rates.

I punch up, not down.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Stop using this dumb picture. This was an open, joke group in steam. The image means virtually nothing.

plot twist: nomis is actually arguing that these people are joking

Spoiler

/s

 

[MartyStu]

C'mon Cruz you bastard, win Alaska and force Rubio from the race and then pull a miracle and upset Donald for the nomination.

You say that like it is a good thing.

 

[mo60]

C'mon Cruz you bastard, win Alaska and force Rubio from the race and then pull a miracle and upset for the nomination.

The delegate gap between donald and cruz won't be that large by the end of the night. It's weird how he can get as many as 230 delegates tonight.

 

[SneakersSO]

Its amazing how trump manages to take all the spotlight. I wouldn't be surprised if during primary discussions so far his name has been mentioned at least twice as much as obama, which in my opinion would have easily been the most focused on person had trump not ran

I actually have a theory that I hope some in the media will explore regarding Trump after this election; there has to be a correlation between the support he has built up over the last year and the ever-growing media exposure he has basically gotten for free since he threw his bid in the GOP race. He wasn't leading early polls a year ago, and his bid was universally viewed as a joke. 12 months later and tens of thousands of talking head man-hours later, and he is leading the GOP

 

[TyrantII]

The left can lock up this country for decades and are going to blow it due to stupid ass in-fighting.

I don't think it's the left that's pushing these narratives.

It's a tiny minority of radical Green-Rainbow and unaffiliated voters who never vote evil Dem anyways.

IE. Inconsequential to the partys prospects. Unless they posion the well claiming they're Democrats and pursuing a scortched earth end.

 

[East Lake]

Have you seen his tax plan?

He complains about but his policy states otherwise.

Like I said you shouldn't be combining shitty tax plans with other policy goals because it generally misses the point.

 

[Tesseract]

I just can't support bought politicians, you gotta draw a line somewhere

Maybe Hillary will release those speeches soon, that'd be a nice start

 

[excelsiorlef]

Don't know if that's what boiled goose was addressing when he said that many Clinton supporters are rich, status quo types. My only point is that she is unquestionably doing better with upper-class, especially privileged rich whites than Sanders is.



Stop using this dumb picture. This was an open, joke group in steam. The image means virtually nothing.

The entire convo was about not voting/voting Trump/third party/whatever other protest vote that claims to be taking a stand against Clinton.

It's a fuck you minorities vote (and yes some of those saying fuck you can be minorities as well)

 

[numble]

I still find it incredibly amusing that someone would say that Trump is not beholden to other moneyed interests. Okay, but it's because he is moneyed interests.

His tax plan is awful and benefits people like himself immeasurably more than everyone else, while creating a massive budget hole.

I would say that being against corporate influence in politics isn't really focused on tax policy, especially on the Republican side. Most Republican voters probably are not interested in raising personal income taxes.

Trump's anti-corporate spiel is focused on the traditional blue-collar arguments--his opposition to the TPP and talks of imposing taxes on goods coming in from China and Mexico (which would be a tax increase on corporations).

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

And yet, if Trump does get elected, it will be because more voters came out for him than any other candidate (ideally).

I'm not telling people who to vote for or why. People should be doing their homework and making up their own minds on something as important as an election. I did mine, and I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary. If Bernie never ran as a democrat, and was independent this whole time, I'd still be voting for him in the GE. The only candidate the DNC decided to put forth was Hillary, and I can't vote for her after all the things I've read. If others share that sentiment, good for them. If not, good for them too.

I feel the same, but in the presidential election I'll either vote for Hillary or just not vote at all. I'm voting in the primary. Part of me would really want to vote for Trump as president. Not because he's trash, but because the American people need to be kicked in the fucking nuts. It's time for them to wake up and I think getting a nightmare like Trump elected president would do that.

 

[MThanded]

Like I said you shouldn't be combining shitty tax plans with other policy goals because it generally misses the point.

Just saying something on the stump means nothing. You are trying to explain away his real policies because of some phrases he repeats.

Facts only

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

If there are Bernie supporters willing to switch from Bernie to trump then they must think your views align more with trump then Hillary.

That's problematic.

Or they just want an "outsider" and don't actually care much about substantive issues.

Or they just want to vote as a protest about how they didn't get their way.

All of these are really problematic traits.

Yeah, the Trump countervote is completely bizarre, and so is arguing that it shouldn't apall any Democrat. We're not in "you don't know what's good for you, minorities" territory here by suggesting someone should continue to vote for the Dem ticket, no one should bother to pretend this is equivalent. This is more, "what the fuck were you even voting for a man with Bernie's integrity for in the first place if not what he stands for?" territory.

But yeah, go ahead and write "Mickey Mouse" in on your ballot, you sure showed Hillary. Because that's what this is really about, isn't it? Am I wrong to think a man with Bernie's obvious honest desire to create positive change at the very least deserves better than the ignominy of being used as a tool for trolls?

 

[Daft Bird]

C'mon Cruz you bastard, win Alaska and force Rubio from the race and then pull a miracle and upset Donald for the nomination.

If Cruz ever won the nomination I would withdraw from the Republican party so fast it will make your head spin.

 

[Magni]

Where are those sweet sweet Alaska results?

Carson won a district. His first?

 

[SneakersSO]

I feel the same, but in the presidential election I'll either vote for Hillary or just not vote at all. I'm voting in the primary. Part of me would really want to vote for Trump as president. Not because he's trash, but because the American people need to be kicked in the fucking nuts. It's time for them to wake up and I think getting a nightmare like Trump elected president would do that.

Vote however you feel is best just make sure you do vote. It's one of the few things Bernie has always encouraged.

 

[nomis]

EDIT: It's also a fucking awful example. It takes effort to go out and vote. If you don't want to you won't. That's a farcry away from playing a video game you want to boycott but also want to play.

The image didn't have to be real, let alone accurate to still be a metaphor.

Of course it takes effort to vote, but I'm saying that if any supporter of Sanders wouldn't want Clinton to be elected in his stead at the consequence of a DONALD FUCKING TRUMP presidency and guaranteed Conservative majority supreme court, I think they have mental issues.

 

[Ecotic]

You say that like it is a good thing.

I'd much rather face Cruz in the general than Trump. Trump has talent, that gives him a puncher's chance. Cruz is just weak all around.

 

[Maintenance]

Bernie supporters claiming they'll stay home or vote Trump in the general if Clinton is nominated are the political equivalent of these guys:

But sure, they would rather hand Trump the nuclear codes instead of a less progressive Democrat.

This picture will never die, holy shit. People don't even care about the facts around it, reminds me of Trump.

 

[Prodigal Son]

The entire convo was about not voting/voting Trump/third party/whatever other protest vote that claims to be taking a stand against Clinton.

It's a fuck you minorities vote (and yes some of those saying fuck you can be minorities as well)

Fair.

I'd pitch in it's a fuck you to the country as a whole too. With an extra fuck you to LGBT and minority people.

The image didn't have to be real, let alone accurate to still be a metaphor.

Of course it takes effort to vote, but I'm saying that if any supporter of Sanders wouldn't want Clinton to be elected in his stead at the consequence of a DONALD FUCKING TRUMP presidency and guaranteed Conservative majority supreme court, I think they have mental issues.

Metaphor is weakened by the fact that the image doesn't actually represent what you claim it does.

"You have mental issues for voting for Donald Trump"

and

"You'll vote for Hillary Clinton anyway"

Aren't necessary compatible ideas.

Currently, clinton does Best against trump compared to Cruz or Rubio, so yea, it is probably a good thing.



I think it is mostly a fuck everything.

Oh totally. It's the textbook 'watch the world burn.'

 

[boiled goose]

You say that like it is a good thing.

Currently, clinton does Best against trump compared to Cruz or Rubio, so yea, it is probably a good thing.
Nevermind, misread the post. Yup cruz is the scariest and the worst/

Fair.

I'd pitch in it's a fuck you to the country as a whole too. With an extra fuck you to LGBT and minority people.

I think it is mostly a fuck everything.

 

[captive]

I can't remember the specific article, but there was an article in the lead-up to the NC primary that had a quote from a Hillary voter on why he didn't care about Bernie Sanders history with the civil rights movement, and I think his response sums up the general lack of fucks given by the black community. It was something like this:

"Why should I care that Bernie Sanders marched with King. If I want to see a civil rights hero, all I have to do is walk down the street."

And it's a good point. Marching with King is nothing special to us because our community is flooded with people who've done their part with the struggle. It was OUR struggle, after all. And it's not in any way indicative that you understand the black community today and our issues. In short, you don't get a cookie.

Marching with King is only a big deal if you're white.

and the other candidate calling your children super predators? Thats ok? I mean, thats who you're getting with Clinton. Someone that has routinely kicked out black people from her rally's, for no reason at all.

 

[TheChuggernaut]

This might be a stupid question, but how does North Dakota, Wyoming, and Democrats Abroad work? Do we just figure that out after everything is said and done?

 

[MThanded]

and the other candidate calling your children super predators? Thats ok? I mean, thats who you're getting with Clinton. Someone that has routinely kicked out black people from her rally's, for no reason at all.

Go on.I'd like to see where you go with this. Should be entertaining.

Post these articles where Hillary routinely kicks black people out her rally's for no reason.

People who were not protesting.

 

[boiled goose]

and the other candidate calling your children super predators? Thats ok? I mean, thats who you're getting with Clinton. Someone that has routinely kicked out black people from her rally's, for no reason at all.

Umm
I hear you on the first part. Though to me, it is not the best attack against Clinton. I do actually believe her when she admitted that she regretted using this loaded language. It was a sincere concession. The underlying point is fair though, that she will say whatever and might through anyone under the bus for political gain.

The people were kicked because they were protesting. Fair to say she could have done that better, but there was a reason haha.

 

[TyrantII]

and the other candidate calling your children super predators? Thats ok? I mean, thats who you're getting with Clinton. Someone that has routinely kicked out black people from her rally's, for no reason at all.

Um, context bro. Or are you being purposely misleading?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Fair.

I'd pitch in it's a fuck you to the country as a whole too. With an extra fuck you to LGBT and minority peoples

Yep.

 

[Officerrob]

and the other candidate calling your children super predators? Thats ok? I mean, thats who you're getting with Clinton. Someone that has routinely kicked out black people from her rally's, for no reason at all.

Welp, this is certainly going places...

 

[East Lake]

Just saying something on the stump means nothing. You are trying to explain away his real policies because of some phrases he repeats.

Facts only

I'm not trying to explain away anything. I also specifically mentioned that you don't necessarily have to believe him, but that if you want to understand what moneyed interests entails simply pointing to tax cuts presents an inadequate picture.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It really doesn't click with some people that lecturing black people about our terrible choices isn't endearing.

 

[MThanded]

I'm not trying to explain away anything. I also specifically mentioned that you don't necessarily have to believe him, but that if you want to understand what moneyed interests entails simply pointing to tax cuts presents an inadequate picture.

Please point me to substantive corporate welfare reform policies that trump has.

Are we gonna keep doing this dance where you are going to say trump said this you can take it or leave it. At least give me some policy or something. Otherwise it's just BS. The guy is great at selling BS.

 

[Overlee]

I still can't believe that the DNC has no problem taking lobbyist money this election style. Even with Sanders and Trump making it their rallying cry, even though the American public overwhelmingly thinks politicians are bought and paid for.

They might "win" this election cycle but they are sewing some deep discord with the growing electorate that doesn't have any connection to the party outside Obama.

Maybe I can take out a pay day loan and help donate to their foresight?

 

[TyrantII]

I still can't believe that the DNC has no problem taking lobbyist money this election style. Even with Sanders and Trump making it their rallying cry, even though the American public overwhelmingly thinks politicians are bought and paid for.

They might "win" this election cycle but they are sewing some deep discord with the growing electorate that doesn't have any connection to the party outside Obama.

Maybe I can take out a pay day loan and help donate to their foresight?

DWS needs to go.