• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Supergirl |OT| Adventure Runs in the Family - Mondays 8/7c on CBS

Status
Not open for further replies.

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I'm sorry, but based on that logic you imagine all they do with the lizard prisoner from the beginning of the episode is walk her around in halls in circles in restraints. They didn't show you anything else so I guess you can't imagine anything else.

Please, you're being a hypocrite. Your entire critique of "Guantanamo Bay" was fan-fiction you imagined. You don't lack imagination, you just intentionally pervert it for a non-point.

The characters are shown to have a sense of justice, compassion, awareness, and character. So rather than use reason to suspect treatment consistent with that character, you just assume they're either ignorant of prisoner treatment or callous to it? That's poor logic and depraved imagination. You literally raised it as an issue of morality when it came from your mind not the show.

Sadly that kind of mentality forces the show to pedantically spoon feed people who, in the absence of common sense, need the exposition provided like baby formula.

So what's more likely: The same character that offered help initially, who felt concern about the origins of the villain, and who doesn't hesitate to rebel against authority... suddenly agrees that someone should be comatose for life without hope... or, you're just being unreasonably foolish for assuming that?
You seem to be taking this very personally for some reason, so I'm not really sure how to respond to you since your primary response is to just resort to ad hominem attacks.

All I can say is that if I'm evaluating the episode on its own terms, then the story doesn't offer a satisfying conclusion based on how they developed the characters throughout the episode.

I mean, I'm not even challenging the silliness of the fact that none of the characters recognize Supergirl because she apparently looks completely different once she takes off her glasses. The ending is just something that felt odd considering the tone of the episode/series so far.
 
Slater wasn't great, but Livewire was rad as fuck. Loved the performance, the look, and they nailed how cool the powers were. Basically Electro from ASM2 but sexier.
 

DaveH

Member
All I can say is that if I'm evaluating the episode on its own terms, then the story doesn't offer a satisfying conclusion based on how they developed the characters throughout the episode.
Except that you aren't. You're inanely introducing inconsistency intentionally as an foolish criticism. The show is literally silent as to what happens to Leslie, but in your dark imaginations that means no due process, Guantanamo Bay, a person screwed up for life, and Supergirl at fault plainly inconsistent with what we DO see.

I can't tolerate that level of inane introduced imaginations as criticism when none of it is IN the show, it's ALL from your messed-up mind. You came into this demanding to know why is Supergirl morally messed-up, how they could justify screwing Leslie for life, and how this is all OK when NONE of that is in the episode.

The Danvers know what happens to prisoners, they also rebel when they think something is wrong, so it's far more reasonable to assume the ethical treatment of prisoners than to CREATE a non-existent moral dilemma.

Then trying to back it up as if your dark imaginations are reasonable. SMH.

When a show is silent on something, you don't get to criticize it based on a reality you create in your head that's inconsistent with what's shown WHEN there's an equally valid possibility that's consistent with what's shown.

Your entire line of argument (until your recent backpedaling) has been based on inconsistent BS YOU created, when ethical treatment is the blindingly obvious consistent alternative. Yet you make no allowance for that possibility (being as anal and hypocritical as to say you can only go by what you see but using what you imagined as the basis of criticism) in fair evaluation of what's actually on screen. Instead, you moved the goalposts and now you're blaming omission for your lack of common sense and failure to override your dark imagination.

I'm offended by the bad logic.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
The Danvers know what happens to prisoners, they also rebel when they think something is wrong, so it's far more reasonable to assume the ethical treatment of prisoners than to CREATE a non-existent moral dilemma.

Then trying to back it up as if your dark imaginations are reasonable. SMH.

I mean, Agents of Shield is basing an entire season based on what happens to Inhumans after they capture them. It's a concern that should be more than just handwaved away to assumptions because it fits some preconceived notion of the characters.

But I feel like this is heading into some kind of Republican vs Democrat debate that isn't really going to go anywhere other than to derail the thread, so I'll probably just make this my last post.
 

DaveH

Member
I mean, Agents of Shield is basing an entire season based on what happens to Inhumans after they capture them. It's a concern that should be more than just handwaved away to assumptions because it fits some preconceived notion of the characters.
Which is because AOS isn't silent on what happens AND the incarceration occurs under the auspices of the antagonists. Neither of those are true for Supergirl. You raised a foolish assumption based on nothing which doesn't make any kind of reasonable or consistent sense with the show.

The Danvers sisters would either have to be completely ignorant of the prisoner procedure... which they aren't... or they'd have to be completely callous morally... which they also aren't (but you decided they were)... or you have your facts wrong (which is plainly the case since the show is silent as to the treatment of prisoners).

This isn't AOS where we're shown the treatment, it's explicitly raised as an issue, and it's occurring under ambiguous characterization rather than the heroes of the show.

The bad logic continues.

You can reduce the whining to, "Why is Kara starving the prisoners?!"

'What? Who says? When did we see that? Why would she do that?"

"We didn't see her feed the prisoners. The split second we saw the prisoner they weren't being fed. Ipso facto, Kara is an immoral psychopath who is torturing and starving the prisoners, who feels no guilt or remorse about it, and is morally bankrupt."

"Jesus Christ, what... that makes sense to you? Rather than endeavor to believe the heroes will act like heroes, you're going to base a criticism entirely on unseen and imagined happenings that are utterly inconsistent with their on-screen characters... and then JUDGE the on-screen character for the villainy of their unseen, off-screen behavior that you made up?"

"Of course, how else could it be unless the writers spoon feed this to me?"

Writers: [grumbling] "Here's your goddamn Belly Burger feeding time as a deleted YouTube scene. Happy now? Really? Really, you couldn't figure out Barry, Ollie, and Kara don't starve their prisoners and treated them as ethically and humanely as reason allows?"

This kind of poorly reasoned criticism based on silence / invented facts is ridiculous.
 

Skux

Member
After watching the episode I think CBS made the right decision. There's so much fear and mourning in the media right now and airing the bombing episode would have been in bad taste and made them confront those themes in the venues that should provide relief and escape.

Luckily, the episode was also a Thanksgiving-themed episode which are usually more character-based and can work well as standalone episodes. We got some development on Cat, and while the whole "tough love" angle is a familiar trope, it's nice that the show finally went there and gave her some dimension.

Unfortunately Livewire got smothered with all the Danvers family drama, but for the theme of the episode, hanging out with the family was the main priority, and also set up the Jeremiah Danvers/Hank Henshaw mystery arc, which no doubt ties into Hank's glowing red eyes.

I hope we get to see the bombing episode next week (edit: turns out we do!), I could tell there were some gaps in how James and Kara's relationship has progressed (or not progressed by the looks of it) which would be useful to have.

MFW she says "You're like a brother to me."

jAIDzXA.png
 
Jesus Christ DaveH tone it down. It is entirely, based on what we see, that a normal trial isn't going to take place. The DEO isn't a normal agency and they aren't about to let their prisoners stand trial And risk exposing the existence of the DEO.
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
After watching the episode I think CBS made the right decision. There's so much fear and mourning in the media right now and airing the bombing episode would have been in bad taste and made them confront those themes in the venues that should provide relief and escape.

Can't say I agree. Especially given Supergirl, like Superman, is meant to be about hope and optimism against terrible things that happen. Saying 'no, we won't air that because bad things have happened' is ridiculous, particularly because acts of terrorism happen all the time. As bad and horrifying as Paris is, that's not a rare act of terrorism; this shit happens constantly somewhere on Earth.
 

Wingfan19

Unconfirmed Member
Favorite things this episode; Electric whips and that on point Ghostbusters reference. I totally thought the same thing before she said it.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Def the best episode so far, didn't expect them to make me care about Cat that early or at all.
 
I thought they were going to cheap out make her a lame electricity tosser like Lincoln on Agents of Shield, nope they went full Livewire and spent the money to make her powers cool.
 

anaron

Member
Fuck I loved this episode.

They totally nailed Livewire in live action. I can't wait til she comes back. dat electric whip!

Cat was incredibly likeable tonight. I think this show does a much better job than Flash at writing nuance and it showed through letting her humanity explored without reducing her personality.


Did anyone else hate the Take Me to Church cover blaring during Alex and Eliza's scene? so annoying and distracting from a genuinely touching moment.
 
Nothing forces Livewire to be a homicidal villain with those powers.

While I actually agree with your post, I am a little disappointed they didn't touch on what Livewire's powers do to her mental state but I presume they'll tackle that in a later episode.

Cat was incredibly likeable tonight. I think this show does a much better job than Flash at writing nuance and it showed through letting her humanity explored without reducing her personality.


Did anyone else hate the Take Me to Church cover blaring during Alex and Eliza's scene? so annoying and distracting from a genuinely touching moment.

Sometimes. Other times... not so much.

The music in that scene was really distracting.
 

anaron

Member
I thought Cat's work in episode 3 was really, really good. I'll have to see the new ep.
oh I think they've done a great job with her as is; just tonight was especially good due to the more empathetic side we saw of her.

there was an obvious gap between her and Kara's development though due to the missing episode but otherwise I feel like it was pretty damn seamless.
 

strafer

member
Helen Slater is pretty fine.

So with how Cat was acting in this episode I'm guessing she knows who Supergirl is. Which must have been revealed in episode 4.
 
Jesus Christ DaveH tone it down. It is entirely, based on what we see, that a normal trial isn't going to take place. The DEO isn't a normal agency and they aren't about to let their prisoners stand trial And risk exposing the existence of the DEO.
There's no in-show evidence that this is what is going to happen.

So with how Cat was acting in this episode I'm guessing she knows who Supergirl is. Which must have been revealed in episode 4.
Im not 100% convinced this is the case, but I'll be surprised if Cat doesn't know beyond the shadow of a doubt by the mid-season finale. (Does this show have a mid-season finale?)
 

DaveH

Member
It is entirely, based on what we see, that a normal trial isn't going to take place. The DEO isn't a normal agency and they aren't about to let their prisoners stand trial And risk exposing the existence of the DEO.
I never said a "normal" trial was going to take place. I said either there would be a permissible-under-law tribunal or some other equitable solution / ethical treatment which wouldn't cast the characters as amoral psychopaths.

You're pretending that there is zero accountability or procedure for meting out justice in classified settings. If your crime is spreading State secrets, it's easy to show cause for a sequestered hearing so that you don't get to use the public trial as a weapon to spread more classified material. There are legal and just ways for administering justice outside of the four corners of what you're familiar with.

What's absurd is to assume otherwise good characters are going to become monsters off-screen based on something unseen, rather than give the benefit of the doubt that the unseen thing might be consistent with their character.

There's any number of ways Leslie might still get a "normal" trial. They can't hold her in a normal jail to await bail, but they can figure out how to dampen or control her powers. If they figure that out, there's absolutely no reason she can't attend a normal trial. She was out when brought to the DEO, so doesn't know it exists, and the power dampener need not be shared with the public if it is invisible (like medication or some sort of field underneath defendant's seat; recall how they were planning on catching her in the first place).

Leaping to the conclusion they intend to keep her comatose indefinitely is unsupported.

All that said, I don't even understand the obsession with due process inside the superhero genre where the heroes are literally vigilantes. Every time X-Ray Vision or Super Hearing is used without a warrant, it's a violation if we're going to be so formal. The genre itself means we accept justice transcends written law, especially when the powers and abilities exhibited are transcending nature and physics and reality upon which those written laws were based.

Justice might mean a better outcome for all instead of blindly adhering to procedure. For all we know, Leslie gets depowered, gets counseling, and the next time we see her she's a meta in the DEO's pocket. That's arguably a far more just outcome than ensuring she gets a trial only to waste away in prison or escape to kill again, even if it defies procedure.

There's no reason to believe Kara and Alex would be OK with inhuman and unethical treatment, so far more plausibly, the DEO has ethical ways of dealing with metas.
 
There's no reason to believe Kara and Alex would be OK with inhuman and unethical treatment, so far more plausibly, the DEO has ethical ways of dealing with metas.

Given the DEO's motivations look to be a major plot point in the near future, I think we'll get answers on this line of thinking sooner rather than later.
 

Penguin

Member
Best ep (granted 4 eps in) of the show so far.

I think LiveWire works better with Supergirl than Superman so far and liked her connection to Cat.

Also nice to see Cat (and most everyone) get more rounded characterizations and another subplot to lay under the show's run
 

Joni

Member
LiveWire looked good. It felt like she walked out from inFamous: Second Son, I felt the power. The only thing that disappointed is how fast she mastered those powers. This is a villain that they can bring back with more mastery of those powers.

It is funny how Cat plays with her glasses like Kara. She really behaves the same way, she is wearing glasses she doesn't need. Also looks like she is growing to realize Kara is Supergirl. That thing at the end felt like she would reveal she knows. On the other hand, it could be another Captain Lance situation where the actor is putting too much detail and emotion in after which they reveal she doesn't know at all.

It sucks that Jeremiah is 'dead'. You don't cast Dean Cain for such a role and then not use him. So I hope they reveal he is alive quite fast, I want to see him more. And go ahead, reveal he is Superman from another universe. I like that crackpot theory.
 

anaron

Member
^ lol


I'm pleasantly surprised how fast they're moving with Henshaw being a shady mofo. I didn't think the show would have Kara and Alex clue into that stuff until way further in the season.

and yeah, Jerimiah is totally alive.
 

Slayven

Member
I am calling my shot. Daddy Danvers is going to be Cyborg Superman and when they show Superman he will look like a young dean cain

While Hankshaw is infected with the Eradicator.
 

Effect

Member
Watching the episode now on CBS.com since I have some free time. Might have to finish tonight when I get home since I did DVR it. I'm at the part where Livewire gets her powers. Really glad they're faithful to the characters personality and so far her powers. When she decided to move through the street light I had this big grin. I was wondering if they were going to go all the way with it and they. At least so far at this point in the episode.

Still not sure how I feel about giving Supergirl her as a villain. I liked her as a Superman villain (granted I'm limited to just the animated series) because it always came off as a situation where his flight and super strength really did him no good against her. Taking those out of the equation makes for an interesting fight. Also it's not like Superman has to many female villains anyway. Always wanted to see her in a film.
 

Cafeman

Member
Alex (chyler leigh) seemed to be the best actor on the show this ep. But Helen Slater was at almost Anakin-Skywalker levels of wooden in the heart-to-heart conversation. Cat Grant character is more interesting now, she shows a bit more heart without losing her entertaining all-me persona.

I like the mystery-building with Jeremiah Danvers! Didn't see that coming, and I like the flashbacks. Its good to see Dean Cain used more in the show, I started to think his role was to be just a cameo in the pilot.

Maybe because of the ep switch, but I didn't like how LiveWire was introduced, gained powers, and was beaten all in the same ep. They should have introduced her in an earlier episode and let it breathe a bit. But I agree with comments above, she was a good LiveWire.
 

Effect

Member
Lol, Wynn is gonna get friendzoned into villainy

Can easily see that. Even with acknowledging that his father deserves to be in prison I would't be surprised with that being an influence on this dark turn at some point as well. The resentment he's feeling as a result of Kara and James's relationship is going to take a very dark turn at some point.

Finished the episode and loved what they did with Livewire and Cat Grant.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
That was a fine episode. Really did a turn around on Cat and Kara's relationship for me.

And as always, I enjoy seeing Wynn... Lose.
 
I am calling my shot. Daddy Danvers is going to be Cyborg Superman and when they show Superman he will look like a young dean cain

While Hankshaw is infected with the Eradicator.

Way ahead of you.

Watch Dean Cain end up being the real
Cyborg Superman
of this universe.

phonciplebone said:
Now that would be pretty awesome. Dean Cain is
Cyborg Superman
while Henshaw is really
Eradicator
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom