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[Doom85]

I mainly mean the animated movies that came out post-2014/2015 up until recently, where WB were just kind of releasing a string of animated movies where the characters shared the same exact designs throughout each, but they were disconnected stories. The Batman in each one looked the same, which was this design:

They weren't disconnected, in fact they were all part of the same universe: the DCAMU (never officially named, but this became the fan consensus for its name). All the prior movies were stand alone (aside from the two Superman/Batman films which were implied to be connected), often direct adaptation of specific comic runs or miniseries. But the animated film Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox's ending saw the start of a new universe which got fully started with Justice League: War and continues from there, with most animated films from then on being in that universe.

That universe ends with Justice League Dark: Apokolips War, which ends with the start of a new universe. This new universe never got an official name either but fans dubbed it the Tomorrowverse as the animated film Superman: Man of Tomorrow was its first entry. The Tomorrowverse for ten films altogether, ending with the three-part film Crisis on Infinite Earths.

You can read more about it, and see the full list of films here:

DC Animated Movie Universe

The DC Animated Movie Universe, or DCAMU, is a Shared Universe based on The DCU that exists as part of the DC Universe Animated Original Movies line, starting in 2013 with Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox. All movies in the line, which …

tvtropes.org

I've not started the Tomorrowverse yet, but I've heardly roughly only the first half of its films are worth watching, with the Justice Society film being its best one. The DC Animated Movie Universe though is mostly good even if I feel a lot of the stand-alone films before it were better. But, I recommend stopping before Apokolips War, watch if you're a completionist, but for me, it was just a ridiculous over-edgy (to the point it felt like a parody at times it went so far) murder fest of the heroes that feels completely unsatisfactory as the conclusion of their universe.

Also, for the Tomorrowverse, if you haven't read Batman: The Long Halloween, I highly recommend doing so before watching the animated film. The animated film is mostly a decent enough adaptation from what I remember, but it absolutely butchers the ending which pisses me off as the comic's final few pages is IMHO a legitimate great plot twist that I did not see coming. The movie has that plot twist….and then keeps going past it and everything they added was unnecessary and awful to me. As it is my favorite Batman comic and my third favorite DC comic series overall (after DC: New Frontier and All Star Superman), I did not take kindly to that.

 

[March Climber]

They weren't disconnected, in fact they were all part of the same universe: the DCAMU (never officially named, but this became the fan consensus for its name). All the prior movies were stand alone (aside from the two Superman/Batman films which were implied to be connected), often direct adaptation of specific comic runs or miniseries. But the animated film Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox's ending saw the start of a new universe which got fully started with Justice League: War and continues from there, with most animated films from then on being in that universe.

That universe ends with Justice League Dark: Apokolips War, which ends with the start of a new universe.

By 'disconnected' I mean that most of them don't easily flow into each other between movies. So one story will take place in one movie, then there will be assumed stuff that takes place in between it and the next movie, then the next movie takes place after that assumed moment, sometimes without a big enough sign that it takes place after.

It's different than something like Batman Beyond or Young Justice for example where you have a clear sign of how one episode's story weaves to the next, or much, much better depictions of character growth, where the animated movies tended to falter a bit and aside from a few movies, the way most characters behaved would be set back to a baseline. I assume they did this in order to not confuse the viewer if they chose any of them as their first movie.

 

[NahaNago]

-well, in some continuities, Kara was actually his older cousin. But time dilation shenanigans made it so when she arrives to Earth, Clark is usually roughly 10-15 years older than her by the time she arrives on Earth. So I feel making him a full on father figure would be kind of weird given those details, and a sibling type relationship does work better

-I don't think Gunn will, he seems to value the characters and not resort to killing off characters when more could be done with them. Notice how he didn't kill off any major Guardians in those films, even Yondu was the parental figure to the main character

-they will, the various animated series are canon to the live-action DCU

-I think Gunn will make sure it works where you could still follow the movies fine even if you haven't seen certain shows.

Clark being more of like a much older sibling makes the most sense.

- Him killing someone is a possibility but it just depends on the story.

- I just generally think they probably should have just left the animated series in another universe.

- Even if he tries to make it work, I'd rather still not have to feel like I should have watched the shows to get the inside jokes.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

I really feel bad for people who sit there and say this was "mid" and would never watch this again. Like how damaged you got to be.

Knives out 2 was mid
The Last Jedi was mid
Man of Steel was Mid

This had heart

Man knives out 2 flat out sucked. What a waste of time.

 

[Klosshufvud]

This apply to both the "success" of this film and the comment to the 100M marketing budget.

For the box office I urge you to not even believe me, but look for yourself and compare

It's not doing well, it's ok in the US (not incredible or amazing or any other superlatif) but oversee is just terrible. It is already beyond JW AND F1 in many market. For example the film opened lower than MORBIUS in Germany.

If the movie keep doing well in the US it might break 550M total worldwide, if it crumble it might even not pass 500M...

Here is a breakdown I made earlier today, it was in French so sorry if my quick translation is not perfect but it will give you an idea:

• France: The film is second here, behind Jurassic World (no figures yet).
• China: After a disastrous Monday (average of 2.3 admissions per screening, the lowest among the top 10 major releases in 2025), Superman is now expected to gross $0.8 million in its second weekend (-87%), with a total of $10 million.
• Ireland: The film is performing well, but it only represents $0.57 million...
• Hungary: Superman debuts in third place with 28,238 spectators, while Jurassic World: Rebirth remains in first place with 48,783 spectators and F1 in second place with 34,082 spectators.
• Portugal: Superman debuts in first place with 51,870 admissions, a result similar to that of Jurassic World Rebirth last week. Its opening is higher than that of Thunderbolts*, but lower than that of Captain America 4. It is also lower than that of Black Adam and Birds of Prey.
• Spain: The film opened at #1 but is closely followed by Jurassic World, which will likely overtake it on Tuesday. Superman grossed about $400,000 less than Joker: Folie à Deux and about 40% less than The Batman. And less than any DC film in the Snyderverse (minus Aquaman 2).
• England: One of the best markets, the film is currently #1 with an opening of 6.9 million, but that's much less than The Batman (13.5 million), and the film isn't drawing a crowd either, despite the heatwave that suggested a return to theaters.
• Italy: The film starts second with a total of 1.5 million, once again behind JW.
• Indonesia: Superman debuts in second place, still behind Jurassic World...
• Thailand: The film is #1, but only 1 point before Jurassic World. This is a territory where SH films normally perform very well. JW will quickly return to #1 there too.

But again I advice you don't buy the big title those trade are pushing and look for yourself. Go beyond the domestic BO, my expectation:

Domestic: 300/350M
OS: 150/200M
Total: 450/550M

Edit: btw the famous "exceed expectation" is always hilarious. They publish a low celling so they can then say this precisely.

Thank you! This is an extremely important movie for WB (since they decided to burn down all things DC to follow Gunn's line) and it having just an "ok" performance at the box office is a disappointment. They're not going to put out a PR statement saying it's doing worse than expected. Even Whedon's disastrous Justice League was quickly buried under WB's pretty PR spins. This is what corporations do. They spin and create narratives to maintain interest in their products.

From what I can tell, if you include previews for MoS and S2025, the former actually grossed more, despite tickets costing significantly less back then. And this is the market where S2025 has its strongest performance. This failing to top 2013's Man of Steel has to be seen as a wake up call by the countless of Gunn fanboys who blamed all things wrong with DC on Zack Snyder. At this point, I'd argue a Cavill/Snyder Man of Steel 2 would have had far superior public reception than yet another Superman reboot that goes nowhere. But now we're here and it seems like this genre is becoming ever more irrelevant by the week. If F4 underwhelms too, I think Hollywood had best find another genre to milk.

 

[Madflavor]

From what I can tell, if you include previews for MoS and S2025, the former actually grossed more, despite tickets costing significantly less back then. And this is the market where S2025 has its strongest performance. This failing to top 2013's Man of Steel has to be seen as a wake up call by the countless of Gunn fanboys who blamed all things wrong with DC on Zack Snyder. At this point, I'd argue a Cavill/Snyder Man of Steel 2 would have had far superior public reception than yet another Superman reboot that goes nowhere. But now we're here and it seems like this genre is becoming ever more irrelevant by the week. If F4 underwhelms too, I think Hollywood had best find another genre to milk.

My man, you're not factoring in that 2013 was a different time. The DC Brand was a lot stronger thanks to TDK trilogy, and Man of Steel was riding off of it's success. It even had Christopher Nolan's name attached to it. There was also no CBM fatigue back then. The genre was really heating up in 2013 thanks to the MCU and especially thanks to TDK and Avengers. You're also talking Pre-Covid here, when theater attendance in general was a lot higher, not to mention Superheroes were event movies in some parts of the world. You compare all that to today, and you're looking at much different circumstances.

I know they're both Superman movies, but Man of Steel is not a good comp when you're measuring it's BO performance. Take a look at every DC's Films opening weekend since Justice League. $125 dom for opening weekend is a big step up from what they're been ranking in these past several years.

 

[Zathalus]

Can't believe people actually defend the Snyder movies. Man of Steel was fine, but Batman vs Superman completely butchered the character of Superman and was a chore to sit through. Justice League was a total disaster, but Snyder isn't fully to blame for that one. His cut of the movie is better, but hardly some masterpiece either. What's really wild is thinking this Superman is not true to the character while the Snyder one is.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Can't believe people actually defend the Snyder movies. Man of Steel was fine, but Batman vs Superman completely butchered the character of Superman and was a chore to sit through.

Wouldn't say Batman comes out unscathed either, dude's a bit unhinged in that movie with the branding criminals, using firearms, all the property damage he causes with his wheels and killing people.

 

[jason10mm]

Can't believe people actually defend the Snyder movies. Man of Steel was fine, but Batman vs Superman completely butchered the character of Superman and was a chore to sit through. Justice League was a total disaster, but Snyder isn't fully to blame for that one. His cut of the movie is better, but hardly some masterpiece either. What's really wild is thinking this Superman is not true to the character while the Snyder one is.

I dunno, there was value there. His version of Batman was TERRIFYING, fast and brutal. As a "descent into madness" that had to be pulled back, it's not a bad arc for Wayne. Synders input for Wonder Woman was also very good. Flash, ehhhhh, not so much. Aquabro was also a good spin on the character. Snyder was building up real stakes as well, that heavy, oppressive threat of Darkseid and how it completely twists the planet (if those JL sequel plots were correct) would have been fun to see, My problem with Snyder is he has no joy in his work. Any humor is more gallows humor than anything, any success is just a temporary reprieve and an emotional release, and the characters end up sacrificing most of their humanity in the process of winning.

But visually, wow, far and away the most comic booky comic book filmmaker around.

 

[Klosshufvud]

My man, you're not factoring in that 2013 was a different time. The DC Brand was a lot stronger thanks to TDK trilogy, and Man of Steel was riding off of it's success. It even had Christopher Nolan's name attached to it. There was also no CBM fatigue back then. The genre was really heating up in 2013 thanks to the MCU and especially thanks to TDK and Avengers. You're also talking Pre-Covid here, when theater attendance in general was a lot higher, not to mention Superheroes were event movies in some parts of the world. You compare all that to today, and you're looking at much different circumstances.

I know they're both Superman movies, but Man of Steel is not a good comp when you're measuring it's BO performance. Take a look at every DC's Films opening weekend since Justice League. $125 dom for opening weekend is a big step up from what they're been ranking in these past several years.

Man of Steel had huge hype due to its fresh interpretation of Superman and the trailers were played endlessly on repeat by fans. Back then Zack Snyder's name also meant something positive. Also MoS went on to become a DVD sales hit so I wouldn't so desperately pin it all on everything but the movie.
Successful comic book movies still exist, and we've had multiple ones since Whedon's awful Justice League.

Wouldn't say Batman comes out unscathed either, dude's a bit unhinged in that movie with the branding criminals, using firearms, all the property damage he causes with his wheels and killing people.

It's almost like the story was portraying him as a fallen hero that strayed of his path of righteousness after years of seeing friends die and villains kill.

 

[Ulysses 31]

It's almost like the story was portraying him as a fallen hero that strayed of his path of righteousness after years of seeing friends die and villains kill.

It's usually not good story telling if such mayor character developments happen off screen.

 

[Madflavor]

Can't believe people actually defend the Snyder movies. Man of Steel was fine, but Batman vs Superman completely butchered the character of Superman and was a chore to sit through. Justice League was a total disaster, but Snyder isn't fully to blame for that one. His cut of the movie is better, but hardly some masterpiece either. What's really wild is thinking this Superman is not true to the character while the Snyder one is.

The thing that really sucks too is that the Batman and Superman appearing on screen together for the first time, was a novelty back then. That's what made it such an event. That novelty is gone now, and it was done in such a disasterous way. WB and Snyder completely blew it. I'm sure we'll see them together again, but it won't have the same impact.

Man of Steel had huge hype due to its fresh interpretation of Superman and the trailers were played endlessly on repeat by fans. Back then Zack Snyder's name also meant something positive.
Successful comic book movies still exist, and we've had multiple ones since Whedon's awful Justice League.

This is all true too, but it also lends credit to what I was saying earlier. Man of Steel had much better circumstances surrounding it to pave a path towards success, while Superman 25 has had way more working against it.

There are still succesful CBMs, but it's not close to what it used to be. Thunderbolts for example got amazing wom with an A cinemascore and great reviews, but it didn't crack $400m WW. Cap 4 landed somewhere in the $400m park. Quantumania did around $460m WW. It's not just DC that's struggling, the whole genre is, especially overseas. They're mostly done with Superheroes.

I'm just saying if people are going to bring up Man of Steel's BO performance in a way to put down Superman 25, they need to be aware that we're just living in different times now.

 

[Klosshufvud]

It's usually not good story telling if such mayor character developments happen off screen.

It's not off screen. It's all implied on screen. Such as Bruce looking at Robin's armor with Joker's spelling on it. The movie just chose not to be so explicit about it in dialogue. There's some meaning to Batman diving deeper and deeper into the layered building as he fights Superman, the further they descend the more of Batman's armor is removed. The final layer/floor reveals the wounded boy behind the fallen man, which the movie implies since the first scene with Bruce running away from the funeral (denying loss) and instead being raised into the "beautiful lie" by the bats.

The thing that really sucks too is that the Batman and Superman appearing on screen together for the first time, was a novelty back then. That's what made it such an event. That novelty is gone now, and it was done in such a disasterous way. WB and Snyder completely blew it. I'm sure we'll see them together again, but it won't have the same impact.



This is all true too, but it also lends credit to what I was saying earlier. Man of Steel had much better circumstances surrounding it to pave a path towards success, while Superman 25 has had way more working against it.

There are still succesful CBMs, but it's not close to what it used to be. Thunderbolts for example got amazing wom with an A cinemascore and great reviews, but it didn't crack $400m WW. Cap 4 landed somewhere in the $400m park. Quantumania did around $460m WW. It's not just DC that's struggling, the whole genre is, especially overseas. They're mostly done with Superheroes.

I'm just saying if people are going to bring up Man of Steel's BO performance in a way to put down Superman 25, they need to be aware that we're just living in different times now.

I agree. The genre is not as powerful as it once was. Years of overexploitation of characters and IPs will do that. Hollywood treated these IPs like some sort of coal mine. Few stories feel unique and done with care and more and more feel like corporate products meant to respond to another corporate product. Hollywood ruined this genre. The shift in quality from the superhero movies we had from 2001-2014 to 2018 and onwards is mindboggling.

 

[Ulysses 31]

It's not off screen. It's all implied on screen. Such as Bruce looking at Robin's armor with Joker's spelling on it. The movie just chose not to be so explicit about it in dialogue. There's some meaning to Batman diving deeper and deeper into the layered building as he fights Superman, the further they descend the more of Batman's armor is removed. The final layer/floor reveals the wounded boy behind the fallen man, which the movie implies since the first scene with Bruce running away from the funeral (denying loss) and instead being raised into the "beautiful lie" by the bats.

It's still mostly off screen since we never saw the unjaded batman ever in the Snyder verse.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

My favorite scene;

Spoiler

the kaiju battle. Superman is trying to come up with a way to save the life of the big monster, but the more cynical, practical heroes groan at this idea and just kill it. I really liked this moment

And I really liked Lex Luthor. A1, A1, A1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For me, I didn't think the movie was as good as I'd hoped it would be (I definitely didn't think it was bad at all), but as I reflect on it, the casting is just so good and I guess it was a good enough movie. I don't know how to put it into words. I'm not really a cinema guy, but I feel Raimi's Spider-man movies felt more like movies, while the MCU and this Superman movie feel almost like something else. I'd like to see something that could be a middle ground of how both those things feel.

 

[DeafTourette]

It's still mostly off screen since we never saw the unjaded batman ever in the Snyder verse.

We saw the hopeful Batman in ZSJL

 

[KyoZz]

Snyder's DC trilogy is amongst the best comics book movies. I don't care if you don't agree, enjoy your MCU Superman and be happy.

But you can bet MoS, BvS and ZSJL will still be talked in 10 years, I'm not sure that will be the case for Superman 2025.

 

[AJUMP23]

Spoiler: Its true

Jor-El is a piece of work in this version.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

Spoiler: Its true

Jor-El is a piece of work in this version.

That was a very bold change to make. I'm not too high or too low on it. We've had a lot of traditional depictions of Superman's kryptonian parents in movies. I can see Gunn breaking from tradition on this as being a breaking point for some fans. I don't love it, but I can live with it and see where the story goes with it.

From what I understand, what Gunn did here is similar to a plot point of the Invincible character and comic series.

 

[AJUMP23]

That was a very bold change to make. I'm not too high or too low on it. We've had a lot of traditional depictions of Superman's kryptonian parents in movies. I can see Gunn breaking from tradition on this as being a breaking point for some fans. I don't love it, but I can live with it and see where the story goes with it.

From what I understand, what Gunn did here is similar to a plot point of the Invincible character and comic series.

Ya but the viltramins are reprehensible world conquerors. That is not what Superman is. Not what his people are. I guess it sets up Zod to come in and say, you have not lived up to the Kryptonian ways. But Zod was supposed to be an outlier of Krypton. Not the norm. And Jor-el is supposed to be an idealization of what can be achieved, not a despot. Of course you can retcon it all with a simple....We found the real message scene in a future film.

 

[KyoZz]

That was a very bold change to make. I'm not too high or too low on it. We've had a lot of traditional depictions of Superman's kryptonian parents in movies. I can see Gunn breaking from tradition on this as being a breaking point for some fans. I don't love it, but I can live with it and see where the story goes with it.

From what I understand, what Gunn did here is similar to a plot point of the Invincible character and comic series.

But what about Supergirl? She leaves Krypton way after Clark so she must know Kryptonian are like this. What's her objective? If she knew why she didn't tell it to Clark?

 

[Lambogenie]

That was a very bold change to make. I'm not too high or too low on it. We've had a lot of traditional depictions of Superman's kryptonian parents in movies. I can see Gunn breaking from tradition on this as being a breaking point for some fans. I don't love it, but I can live with it and see where the story goes with it.

From what I understand, what Gunn did here is similar to a plot point of the Invincible character and comic series.

It's why i didn't like that aspect, and it never felt confirmed either way as official. So to me it's still a loose thread.

Unless he wants a Raditz/Vegeta/SupermanandLois Brother situation. But that can happen without this change, if he keeps this change.

I really believe it's meant to be resolved though.

 

[KyoZz]

It's why i didn't like that aspect, and it never felt confirmed either way as official. So to me it's still a loose thread.

Unless he wants a Raditz/Vegeta/SupermanandLois Brother situation. But that can happen without this change, if he keeps this change.

I really believe it's meant to be resolved though.

It's official, not to mention it's been made clear in the movie the message is unaltered:

SUPERMAN Director James Gunn Explains Controversial Change To Kal-El's Origin Story - SPOILERS

Superman director James Gunn has addressed the movie's controversial change to Kal-El's origin story, revealing that he turned to the comics for inspiration in changing Jor-El and Lara's motivations.

comicbookmovie.com

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Spoiler: Its true

Jor-El is a piece of work in this version.

"You will give the people of earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun Kal. In time, you will help them... accomplish wonders."

vs

 

[KyoZz]

"You will give the people of earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun Kal. In time, you will help them... accomplish wonders."

vs

Ssssshhhhh how dare you?!?
Snyder bad, didn't understood Superman.
Gunn good, best Superman ever.

If you don't agree you are a troll, a cultist or a nazi.

 

[jason10mm]

That was a very bold change to make. I'm not too high or too low on it. We've had a lot of traditional depictions of Superman's kryptonian parents in movies. I can see Gunn breaking from tradition on this as being a breaking point for some fans. I don't love it, but I can live with it and see where the story goes with it.

From what I understand, what Gunn did here is similar to a plot point of the Invincible character and comic series.

I have huge doubts as to the actual message, or at least the translation. Could "the people of Earth will not be as strong as you, so you must help them, and I hope you can find love and children there" turn into "earthings are weak, fodder for your boot, rule them and spread your seed" with a little malicious word choice? Certainly. And presumably Supergirl, as an adolescent when leaving Krypton, got this message straight from the source, so you'd think Superman would ring her up and say "Hey, did my parents tell you anything else?"

Plus we have the canon document "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" that illustrates the difficulties Supes will have propagating with the average human. Superman II made it clear how far Superman has to go for human children, followed up in Superman Returns, Smallville did it as well, I think, and the Lois and Clark show. Not sure if "Superman and Lois" addressed it, in the season or so I've watched I don't recall them talking about any specific measures he went through in order to knock up Lois.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

The message wasn't fake, it was just recovered not manipulated; mr terrific confirms the accuracy as well.
Gunn made brightburn and basically put that origin in this movie as well.

 

[jason10mm]

The message wasn't fake, it was just recovered not manipulated; mr terrific confirms the accuracy as well.
Gunn made brightburn and basically put that origin in this movie as well.

Mr. Terrific banged on a keyboard for about 10 seconds, he didn't confirm shit. How can they POSSIBLY translate an alien language like that, or trust a "recovered" message where Supermans own kryptonian technology couldn't? And consider the source, Lex?

I really hope this isn't the direction of Kryptonian culture, guess we'll see in Supergirl.

 

[DeafTourette]

I love both Man of Steel and Superman 2025. Both movies touch my heart. And both are very comic book-y in action. Superman is a bit more comic book in characterization whole Man of Steel is more grounded in realism in characterization.

There's room for both to be great and I hope Superman hits a billion though it likely won't (hopefully it gets close).

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Mr. Terrific banged on a keyboard for about 10 seconds

Like every thing else he does in the movie? Like hacking a tear between universes to access the pocket universe and keep it open with brute force coding?
He says it was accurate, this is a narrative device meant for the audience that what saw is true.

 

[DKehoe]

 

[Lambogenie]

It's official, not to mention it's been made clear in the movie the message is unaltered:

SUPERMAN Director James Gunn Explains Controversial Change To Kal-El's Origin Story - SPOILERS

Superman director James Gunn has addressed the movie's controversial change to Kal-El's origin story, revealing that he turned to the comics for inspiration in changing Jor-El and Lara's motivations.

comicbookmovie.com

This is disappointing.

My impression for Mr.T was he didn't know what he was actually chatting about i.e. he thinks he's right, but most likely isn't once Gary and co. do some work instead of thinking about having names... Just my hope, then.

 

[Doom85]

But what about Supergirl? She leaves Krypton way after Clark so she must know Kryptonian are like this. What's her objective? If she knew why she didn't tell it to Clark?

Why are you assuming all of Krypton is like this? We only had a message from two people of an entire planet and how they would perceive what to do in these circumstances. And given most of the time in various continuities only Jor-el and Lara are convinced their planet is in its final hour, it wouldn't make much sense for the rest of the planet to have some sort of, "oh, if we all suddenly die except for one of us, we should totally leave a message encouraging that person to conquer whatever planet he or she winds up on if they manage to escape" mindset, like that's insanely specific thinking for something that your average Kryptonian has no reason to think of.

Also, while it's only a theory, surely fellow Superman experts shouldn't be forgetting a certain character who has in at least one continuity been present on Krypton, even working with Jor-el before this character reveals their true intentions, and would be MORE than capable of altering a message in a way that even Earth's experts couldn't know about it as why would they know for sure how Kryptonian technology works 100%?

Given he's easily among the most popular choices of unused Superman villains in live-action film, seems like a reasonable route to go. Not saying they have to, but given IIRC Brainiac is unconnected to Kandor's fall in the Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow comic despite him usually being the one who imprisons the city in most continuities, I could see them connecting him to Krypton's fall in the Superman sequel instead, which could lead to a further twist regarding the message from Jor-el and Lara.

Regardless, most modern Superman stories place far more important on the Kents influencing Clark's integrity and choices, not his Kryptonian parents. James Gunn clearly understood this.

If anything, that was a flaw of Man of Steel (I still generally like the movie, KyoZz, SETTLE), the fact that the Kents never get to actively encourage Clark to get out there and save people, rather it's all Jor-el who says that (no, I'm not demonizing Jonathan for wanting to protect his son, but I needed him to say more. Instead, it feels like it falls fully to Jor-el to guide Clark to his purpose). If Gunn has fully gone the opposite route, well, the opposite route is the better alternative. Clark's connection to Earth is far more important than his connection to Krypton IMHO and most of the Superman continuities I'm familiar with.

Like, just because two things are both changes doesn't necessarily make them equal in impact. Bane being nothing but a moronic henchman in Batman and Robin who leaves no impact on the plot and is barely a threat, and the Dark Knight Rises' Bane having a different costume and being totally loyal to Talia (though in the comics he was briefly with the League of Assassins, so at least the idea had root from the comics even if they went further with it), yes, those are technically both changes from the source material, but I'm raising an eyebrow at anyone trying to act like ANY change from the source material is all equal. Dark Knight Rises still treats Bane like a legitimate threat who breaks Batman's back, while Batman and Robin treats him like a joke. They are not equivalent in how much they change from the source material.

Even if you disagree, hopefully you can at least understand where I'm coming from. I'm not just being a James Gunn fanboy. Man of Steel and even Batman v Superman are right there in my DC/Marvel Blu-Ray collection along with so many others (so is the Snyder JL cut, I will watch it at some point but I would prefer doing it in one sitting, and four hours is a big mental commitment. I have a vacation in August, I might be able to watch it then). I don't purchase films I can't stand, that's why Batman Forever/& Robin, Catwoman, Hulk '03, Elektra, Jonah Hex, Fantastic Four 2015, and some others will never grace my shelf.


(also, regarding Suoergirl and when she left, plenty of Superman continuities utilize time dilation in this regard, in fact, often Kara was the older cousin to Kal, but finds when she arrives on Earth that Clark is now older than her)

 

[VulcanRaven]

Spoiler: Its true

Jor-El is a piece of work in this version.

I wouldn't be suprised if that will be revealed being not true in the sequel.

 

[AJUMP23]

I wouldn't be suprised if that will be revealed being not true in the sequel.

I am sure it will get Retconed. I can't believe it is a popular piece of the story.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Clark's connection to Earth is far more important than his connection to Krypton IMHO and most of the Superman continuities I'm familiar with.

It might not have been subject to heavy exposition in MoS, but it definitely wasn't lost on it; we get three lines that show very clearly that this is in fact the case as well and jor-el really only serves to affirm his convictions:
"Krypton's had its chance"
"I grew up in Kansas general, I'm about as American as it gets."
"Welcome to the planet" "Happy to be here Lois".

 

[VulcanRaven]

I am sure it will get Retconed. I can't believe it is a popular piece of the story.

Its not out of question that Gunn has planned it.

Spoiler

Maybe Engineer's powers are so good that she could manipulate it so well that it can't be called fake or the villian of the next movie has something to do with it. I can imagine the truth being a big payoff in the sequel.

 

[Doom85]

It might not have been subject to heavy exposition in MoS, but it definitely wasn't lost on it; we get three lines that show very clearly that this is in fact the case as well and jor-el really only serves to affirm his convictions:
"Krypton's had its chance"
"I grew up in Kansas general, I'm about as American as it gets."
"Welcome to the planet" "Happy to be here Lois".

No, I'm saying I wanted to see the KENTS inspire that. We can see that they love him, that's great, but I wish at least one of them still encouraged him to help people as often as he could, even if they want him to be careful about it. Instead, I feel the movie settles for at most an implication they said that as he was growing up with them.

As I said once before in another thread, this approach to a more cautious Jonathan Kent was handled better in the Smallville show IMHO. Yes, he frequently warned Clark to be careful, but he made it very clear how much he wants Clark to help those who need it as Jonathan himself displays such selflessness as well.

 

[jason10mm]

Like every thing else he does in the movie? Like hacking a tear between universes to access the pocket universe and keep it open with brute force coding?
He says it was accurate, this is a narrative device meant for the audience that what saw is true.

He worked for hours on the portal though. Makes no sense that he could completely authenticate the message himself in just seconds. At most he is just verifying that Lex did have "independent linguists" corroborate his translation, but if the source code was manipulated by nanochick, it's tainted. Plus the translation could easily be biased like I already mentioned, ain't no way earth people know all the nuance and slang used on Krypton when all they have to work with is that little snippet.

No doubt getting "the real message" will be a plot point later on. DC heroes in general are VERY parent obsessed, as a lot of childrens media is, so it's gonna come up over and over.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Instead, I feel the movie settles for at most an implication they said that as he was growing up with them.

Perhaps, but I feel implication is more powerful than spelling it out and it worked for me.
Like the implication clark with all his kryptionian might is so human that he's too afraid to step into the house or even use his vision to check, and only relaxes after his mom calls out that she's ok.; there's so many little things in the flashbacks and his conversations with Martha that show his connection to earth, and his own humanity, are incredibly important to him.

 

[Doom85]

Perhaps, but I feel implication is more powerful than spelling it out and it worked for me.
Like the implication clark with all his kryptionian might is so human that he's too afraid to step into the house or even use his vision to check, and only relaxes after his mom calls out that she's ok.; there's so many little things in the flashbacks and his conversations with Martha that show his connection to earth, and his own humanity, are incredibly important to him.

Well, it didn't work for me that much, especially in comparison to better executed versions of the Kents IMHO. The issue is all we get from Jonathan is exercising caution too much, like it's focused on too much over him wanting Clark to make a positive difference in the world. Even ONE scene of him openly encouraging selfless behavior and helping people would have worked. Instead, all we get is:

Jonathan: "Clark, one day, you'll do great things."
Clark: "Cool, could you be more specific?"
Jonathan: "Ah, fuck me, I'm too tired to do that. Leave all that to your space dad."
Jor-el: "Son, be a force of good and hope, and you can inspire the best in people."
Jonathan's spirit: "Ah shit, that sounds way better than what I said."

 

[jason10mm]

Well, it didn't work for me that much, especially in comparison to better executed versions of the Kents IMHO. The issue is all we get from Jonathan is exercising caution too much, like it's focused on too much over him wanting Clark to make a positive difference in the world. Even ONE scene of him openly encouraging selfless behavior and helping people would have worked. Instead, all we get is:

Jonathan: "Clark, one day, you'll do great things."
Clark: "Cool, could you be more specific?"
Jonathan: "Ah, fuck me, I'm too tired to do that. Leave all that to your space dad."
Jor-el: "Son, be a force of good and hope, and you can inspire the best in people."
Jonathan's spirit: "Ah shit, that sounds way better than what I said."

Agreed. I think it's "ok" if Jor-el deliberately sends his infant son to a planet under a yellow sun, knowing it will make him far more powerful, with the message of "lead them, care for them, become like them, but if they are all assholes, at least they can't hurt you" and it's Pa Kent's job to really mold superman into a positive force for humanity rather than an omnipotent dictator (benevolent or otherwise). All the alternate "superman gone bad" stories are really just what the pa kent influence did (or the absence caused) over a child that will otherwise be a god.

 

[DKehoe]

 

[March Climber]

I was thinking back on the scene in the movie where Superman turns himself in (not a spoiler since it's in a trailer) and it reminded me of how fun of a dynamic him and Batman have in the animated series (2:47 in the video):



I'm really curious to see the dynamic of this new Superman with the next Batman.

 

[PrimetimeKnight]

 

[Ulysses 31]

Spoiler

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Spoiler

Already posted and discussed on this very page lol

 

[Ulysses 31]

Already posted and discussed on this very page lol

Oooof, it was also hidden behind the spoiler button...

But I can see it raising questions about Supergirl, how much she know and why she never said anything or why she's not doing what the message says unless she has got a different message.

 

[VulcanRaven]

 

[SkylineRKR]

I loved it!

After Jurassic World, Mission Impossible and Thunderbolts slop I needed James Gunn. He delivered again. This movie destroys all MCU slop from the last few years.

This movie is fast, light hearted and fun. Chemistry is on point, and the jabs at society are fun, namely the

Spoiler

tweeting monkeys spreading fake news to destroy Superman's reputation

He's going down a lot, perhaps a bit too much. But he is fighting an uphill battle against Lex who knows him in and out and essentially

Spoiler

created a near perfect clone he can assist from every view

This Green Lantern was fun as fuck too. Those middle fingers, lol.

Is it perfect? no. But its a fun ride, one that will make you feel good. Gunn succeeded in what he wanted to achieve here. Thanks for taking care of the dog, bitch.