Chie Satonaka
Member
One has to have shame in order to feel it, after all.
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Supporters, protesters clash at Berkeley Trump rally
- Thread starter Vyer
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One has to have shame in order to feel it, after all.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
❤️
I understand people punching Nazis far more than I understand the white moderate who's spent their entire fucking life doing nothing while judging everyone else.
Damnit (redux). I googled "bay area tax day 2017 protest" yesterday and only saw the big one in San Francisco at the Civic Center going on near me so went to that one. All liberals/progressives and speakers. If I had known about a Berkeley event with dueling sides I would have gone there instead to shout down the alt right and probably gotten into some stuff...
AtomskEater
Member
No problem. By the way, I see another similarity with the alt right strategy in Scrooged. The second he was called out with receipts, he disappeared
The silence is delicious. And it's just another indicator that talking with these types doesn't work; people are just going to poof and wait for the next thread to talk shit in over self reflection or letting their viewpoint change.
I'm not arguing for everyone to go out and do what Antifa does, I'm saying they are a piece of the left that non violent folks shouldn't be shitting on from the safety of their homes, especially white folks (not saying you are white, just from what I see on Twitter, etc). I'm out here putting in work, I wasn't in Berkeley yesterday because I was here in Sacramento marching. I think from my posts here you can deduce what I'm about and what I do.
I've seen people in threads like this who've basically admitted they would rather die a cowards death than ever think of inflicting harm on another person no matter how dire the situation. These people won't even protect themselves or their families if it came down to it.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
The US has proven time and time again, domestically and internationally, that violence is the answer.
Or is state violence the only violence people are ok with?
That said, I want what most people want: peaceful resolution with a threat of violence for those who refuse to let their racism go. Neos, Klan, whoever.
Or is state violence the only violence people are ok with?
That said, I want what most people want: peaceful resolution with a threat of violence for those who refuse to let their racism go. Neos, Klan, whoever.
#they believe you can just vote away state violence. If we just go to the polls and put in the right people, police will stop shooting niggas for no reason
You're right. But that doesn't mean minorities can have it as good as whites.
No matter how rich, or popular, or loved of a person you are. You're a nigger, gook, or spic to someone out there.
And let me tell you, saying "I'm just a human being like you to" to them doesn't work.
There's a difference between advocating for nonviolence and saying violence is never necessary. On gaf in particular though, the second you start saying things didn't need to turn violent in a specific instance, you get labeled a white supremacist or some such nonsense. Now, maybe violence was necessary here, maybe it wasn't, but we should at least be able to have that conversation without labeling everyone who happens to disagree with you something nasty. The implicit message being pushed is that violence is always ok if the perpetrators happen to be on your side. Both sides are NOT the same but both sides definitely use that flawed logic to give themselves a pass while condemning everyone who shows even the slightest hint of questioning.
The people who wouldn't shut up about Obama FEMA camp conspiracies and false flag shootings to get guns banned are the same ones howling for martial law on inner cities and hoping for civil war so they can burn down liberal states and cities.
They want their "democracy" to be a de facto white supremacist state. The fact that minorities and women were able to rock the boat enough to make the entire world not revolve around the angry white male voting bloc was enough to make them do away with the whole façade and make their position permanent.
I didn't label anyone, but after my first post in this thread I was immediately called just as bad as a white supremacist. I don't know what the remainder of this post really has to do with what I've said in the last page or so, but it was fun talking and I'm off to work now so I won't be able to respond regularly from here on out.
Everyone should just do their part and not shit talk another group trying to solve the same problem in a different way. Antifa isn't out here to do anything but protect people from others that want to gain enough power to enact more oppression, segregation, and/or genocide.
LegendofJoe
Member
I'm not arguing that the fantatical right isn't dangerous or that we shouldn't confront and fight them when necessary; but it's sad that the racial division in this country prevents us from focusing on our common enemy. As long as this division exists they will continue to pick our pockets and doom an increasing amount of us to poverty.
The only thing that is going to change that is for the whole system to collapse. It's inevitable most likely, but if we could unite that fate can be avoided. I'm afraid of how ugly things are going to get when it finally happens. The destruction of the middle class is making racial division worse, and ultimately it will doom us.
The only thing that is going to change that is for the whole system to collapse. It's inevitable most likely, but if we could unite that fate can be avoided. I'm afraid of how ugly things are going to get when it finally happens. The destruction of the middle class is making racial division worse, and ultimately it will doom us.
biggersmaller
Banned
This depresses me. GREATLY.
Violence sometimes works, but elevating your POV to a position justifying a violent act will cut away people who agree with you and entrench those marginally agreeing with the opposing viewpoint. Even if you win, violence keeps people angry for generations.
Personally, I look at the racism in this country and believe us liberals should continue to take the high road. Iteratively change the culture as liberals have through the arts, sciences, and education. To cut it out with purity tests in these areas and broaden our allies. So to not be discouraged when non-violent approaches take a step back like they have recently.
No problem. By the way, I see another similarity with the alt right strategy in Scrooged. The second he was called out with receipts, he disappeared
Get over yourself. I don't live on this forum.
You're just so cemented on your side that you can't see when someone has logical moderate opinion. You are so quick to label people as Nazis that it has clouded your judgement. Just repeating what I have said back at me is somehow an argument. Yes, I watched most of the entire event and yes, what I saw was Antifa doing their usual thing of causing chaos. How is his even controversial? It's their MO for crying out loud!
What you need to realize is that everyone who showed up at the rally/event are not a monolith. There were people from the left *gasp* that showed up too. There were people who supported Trump. There were people who only support free speech. One of the speakers outright called out the White Nationalists that showed up and said that they don't represent everyone there.
Also, who the hell are you to say what I'm truly interested in? I watched because I wanted to get a first hand experience of the event, knowing what happened at previous events. Let me make this clear to you: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER. I AM NOT A WHITE NATIONALIST.
Get off your fucking high horse.
Okay, and if there is evidence that these people were intending to outright assault the other side instead of pure self defense then guess what? They are assholes who I don't support either. My god how crazy, right?
How can you not see that the Antifa organization is the same exact fucking thing? They called people to "shut it down".
But no, it's easier to throw a blanket over every single person at the rally so that you have an excuse to "punch a Nazi". You're encouraging dangerous fucking behavior.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I think you really missed the point Kid was making. We were being asked to reconcile our ideals about non-violence with the knowledge our state has always used it to oppress us and conquer the world.
You shouldn't have kept mouthing off about how those friendly neighborhood militia members and alt-right ne'er-do-wells were there for a "pro-free speech" rally. That makes you either a useful idiot, or ideologically complicit with them.
That was one step beyond preaching non-violence.
I wonder if you realize that you're walking, talking, living proof that talking things out isn't enough for what needs to be accomplished. When getting through to a supposed moderate on issues that don't actually have any middleground is like lifting Mjolnir, what hope is there to convince the direct opposition?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Spot on. Rationalizing our beliefs even when we're directly contradicting them while we explain is a hell of a drug.
Lord Frieza
Member
I know. There was a dude posting earlier who said he wouldn't punch a Nazi even if a Nazi punched him first. And it's like, what the fuck? A Nazi comes at me, one of our asses is getting stomped. I think it was same guy who laid down the first MLK card.
Oh I know that, the type of forums you live on are quite different indeed.
Maybe if you want to be judged separately as a group, you should stop parroting their talking points whenever they want to shut down a conversation about the actual perpetrators whenever they're involved.
This is literally the same argument as the Gamergate monsters. "Oh you can't blame the WHOLE group for these people doxxing and swating. Oh, you can't blame these other protesters for participating in a white supremacy rally, not all there supported racism!" No, these people only intentionally incited their grotesque fellow genocide lovers to come to this rally and cause trouble and imitate actual Antifa members so that they can convince gullible people that they're just gosh gee golly free speech lovers who were agitated by the mean ol' black bloc. No self-respecting lover of free speech would believe it was under attack enough to actual protest, nor would they participate in a free speech rally that was overwhelmingly populated by Trump's white supremacist supporters.
Next you'll tell me they can't be racist because you see that black guy supports them so that means they're #notyourshield.
Your actions and words are plenty enough to inform anyone who is familiar with the alt-right's tactics as to what's going on. This plausible deniability bullshit might work on someone else, but you'll need to find other game.
Whether you are -literally- a white supremacist (which I don't believe), you are enabling them by your misleading bullshit statements about what happened, and it's not something that's going to be let exist unchallenged. Sorry!
Right, we know. "Extreme left" and "Extreme Right" are the same, I get it. You're so moderate.
I'm celebrating precisely what neo-Nazi's and white supremacist genocide advocates deserve.
Scrooged: I mean, in this internet age /pol/ and friends is just one click away - you can be the emissary to the alt-right and teach them about how people of color are human beings and that ethnic cleanses are wrong even if you use the word "peaceful" to describe them.
You seem really invested in this, enough to watch livestreams of the protests against nazis. So why not put your own philosophy into action?
You seem really invested in this, enough to watch livestreams of the protests against nazis. So why not put your own philosophy into action?
I tried posting facts and statistics on r/the_donald once. I was immediately banned. I know I'm not the only person here who's tried it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Still shaking my head at Clayton in that pic. The hate shield must have been real
And good to see the usual defenders of white supremacy in here licking the asshole of stupidity
And good to see the usual defenders of white supremacy in here licking the asshole of stupidity
Dont be violent against white supremacists, just take the high road by "cutting out purity tests" on racism.
Message received!
shawnbuddy
Member
After reading the thread I'm acutely aware anything but that isn't 100 percent pro Nazi-stomping is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I've been reading the Alt Right reacting to the "Battles of Berkeley" with both breathless anticipation and absolute glee when they get violent, so here goes.
Racist movements are inherently violent. It's their ultimate message and goal. But they run the risk that they might get shut down if they instigate the violence. So finding someone to engage with them on that level is all they want and need. As soon as they provoke someone into punching or stabbing or shooting one of them, then they can wash any doubt from the minds of their followers that the left is somehow better or above violence. It's all fair game from there and they can engage in the violence that's the point of their whole movement under the guise of self-defense and retaliation. So Antifa is perfect for advancing these goals. A violent, masked enemy that justifies their own violence.
Racist movements are inherently violent. It's their ultimate message and goal. But they run the risk that they might get shut down if they instigate the violence. So finding someone to engage with them on that level is all they want and need. As soon as they provoke someone into punching or stabbing or shooting one of them, then they can wash any doubt from the minds of their followers that the left is somehow better or above violence. It's all fair game from there and they can engage in the violence that's the point of their whole movement under the guise of self-defense and retaliation. So Antifa is perfect for advancing these goals. A violent, masked enemy that justifies their own violence.
starchild excalibur
Member
Source
Look, I'm someone who believes that there's a wide swath of people whose bigotry and views are rooted in them not having experienced enough dialogues with those of the opposing camp. I think there are a lot of people who remain non-violent that hold abhorrent views that could be shaken out of their views with enough time and discourse.
But the neo-Nazi fucks in these protests aren't them. And I don't buy the argument that anyone was here to support freedom of speech. Some where there because they support Trump, some where there because they want Trump to reveal his tax records, and others were there because they're white nationalists who are itching for an excuse to proudly declare as such with their fists.
I don't like it when liberals throw unprovoked punches, but I sure as shit don't think that's on the same level as spouting "peaceful" genocide and a longing for a Nazi state. You can criticize both sides for their problems, but fuck off with the "they're just as bad as each other" rhetoric. It's not close to being true whatsoever.
boiled goose
good with gravy
It's hard to get more liberal than Berkeley...
starchild excalibur
Member
I think he's joking that South Cali would have more people here opposing them than in a smaller city like Berkeley. And depending on where in South Cali we're talking, I don't disagree with him.
You'll get banned for lightly coughing in Il Douche's direction.
SciencePilot
Member
Ah, I was in Berkeley yesterday just visiting. I love the city, but when stuff like this happens, it's scary. Makes me reluctant to visit more often in the future. Things were more peaceful when I was in school.
Abstrusity
Member
I've read that the violence here has been planned for weeks -- people encouraged to sneak weapons in disguised as flags to get violent with. Fucking Trump supporters, man...Is this corroborated? It's getting harder to tell fact from fiction, especially since known alt-right twitters and /pol/ have been mentioning it.
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