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Surface 2 and Pro 2 |OT| Lap it up

D

dLMN8R

Member
BriareosGAF said:
Apps other than web browsing, podcasts, RSS readers, Mail apps, FaceTime, all the little weather, map, etc., utilities, and then yes, a shit ton of games? Let's not be naive, of course. My wife's primary computing all happens on her ipad, even though she has a nice huge iMac, too.
Click to expand...
Well sure, but most of those things are covered. The mail app is massively improved, there are alternatives, Skype and others are there, the built-in weather app is just as nice as anything on other platforms, maps are decent, plenty of utilities, RSS readers, and more.

I'm talking about the apps that are actually missing from the Windows Store - there's a ton of stuff that's missing of course, but what of those omissions do you actually use a lot? I'm genuinely curious.

Gaming is the only area I can think of which is severely behind in things people actually use on tablets. Which is a big deal, I'm not trying to minimize that fact, but games also aren't important to everyone. And the Windows Store does have a bunch of good games, just not the latest and greatest.

madmook said:
I ask because this won't work on "desktop" browsers, I think. Are you confirming that this works with the IE browser in Windows RT?

Also, another question for dLMN8R: how does the browser handle gif-heavy gaf threads?

I am now leaning towards a Surface 2. Still gonna wait and see what Apple cooks up tomorrow, though.
Click to expand...
I've never had a problem with gif-heavy threads. The main problematic web sites are those like Cracked.com which have massive amounts of ads and strange scripting on them.

Skel1ingt0n said:
I oftentimes disagree with your assessments. I regularly find faults and frustration in things you tend to enjoy or simply ignore. For example, I dislike integrated Bing search in everything. Opening a browser is not difficult if I want to search, and then I don't accidentally click on external links when trying to simply navigate my computer.

That said, though, I fully agree with your argument that current tablets have somehow already defined exactly what a tablet should and should not be in the future. I love my iPad - I think it's a perfect travel companion for browsing the internet, checking email, and killing time playing games or watching a movie. It's light, has great battery, a beautiful display, is fast, and has access to a plethora of apps. But there's so much room for competition to do something crazy. The most obvious being that the iPad is an abysmal office tool. A terrible case/stand hybrid. Not a single good keyboard except the Apple BT one that doesn't even attach. No real ability to stay productive or get actual work done with just the device itself.

I think the Surface 2 would be perfect if it had more apps. I think the Pro 2 would be perfect if it was as thin as the S2. Either way, though, I think they both do some things much better than my beloved iPad.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Just FYI - if you want to disable Bing search but keep universal local search on, you can do that. PC Settings --> Search and apps --> disable "Get search suggestions and web results from Bing"
 
S

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
dLMN8R said:
Well sure, but most of those things are covered. The mail app is massively improved, there are alternatives, Skype and others are there, the built-in weather app is just as nice as anything on other platforms, maps are decent, plenty of utilities, RSS readers, and more.

I'm talking about the apps that are actually missing from the Windows Store - there's a ton of stuff that's missing of course, but what of those omissions do you actually use a lot? I'm genuinely curious.

Gaming is the only area I can think of which is severely behind in things people actually use on tablets. Which is a big deal, I'm not trying to minimize that fact, but games also aren't important to everyone. And the Windows Store does have a bunch of good games, just not the latest and greatest.

I've never had a problem with gif-heavy threads. The main problematic web sites are those like Cracked.com which have massive amounts of ads and strange scripting on them.



Thanks.

Just FYI - if you want to disable Bing search but keep universal local search on, you can do that. PC Settings --> Search and apps --> disable "Get search suggestions and web results from Bing"
Click to expand...

Well hot dog! Great - I'll be making that change on my gaming PC the second I get home. TY!
 
G

Goku

Banned
dLMN8R said:
(I work for microsoft I'm obviously biased blah blah blah)

After reading these reviews, the Surface 2 sounds like it basically solves every single problem with the original.

The frustrating part about these reviews is that it focuses entirely on what's missing that the competition has, while merely glossing over what it has that the competition doesn't.

Don't get me wrong - the omissions compared to the competition are important, and should absolutely be pointed out. But we're stuck in this impasse where the press has let the competition define "this is what a tablet is, and any tablet which doesn't do exactly the same stuff or better must be reviewed worse". They barely touch on the unique elements of the Surface at all. And the new Bing apps like Health & Fitness are huge, I couldn't believe how much stuff was in there when I loaded it up. They got a single sentence (if at all) in these reviews.



I traveled with just my Surface RT for the last week, freshly upgraded to 8.1, and was constantly reminded what makes it special.

  • The ability to get real, honest to god work done using a proper, near-fully-featured office suite
  • A web browser that supports full flash without any limitations, and yet is still faster than almost every other tablet I've used (including the iPad 3)
  • True side-by-side multitasking, unhindered
  • USB peripheral support for basically everything
  • True multimonitor support for work and hooking it up to any TV effortlessly
  • Actual SNES emulator legitimately published to the Store
  • Actual BitTorrent client that let me catch up on my legitimately-torrent-distributed shows
  • Mobile.HD video player that plays every single file format I've thrown at it
  • Full file system access to browse the network, SD cards, and more, without any hassles or requirements for any third-party software
  • Using it as a gigantic backup battery. I fully-charged a dead phone and 3DS using its USB port and still had enogh battery for a 2-3 hour layover and the entire flight

The only complaints I had the entire time was that the keyboard is difficult to use in my lap, and it's simply slow. The Surface RT is a slowww device, and only web browsing is faster than competing tablets I've used.

There is so much stuff that comes built-into the device that makes it fucking awesome, I honestly don't miss apps at all. I have an iPod Touch and play a bunch of games on there, and the only reason why I'd consider an iPad is for games on it as well. I question how much people actually use apps on a tablet. Things like Instagram etc. seem pretty useless on tablets compared to phones - other than news readers like Instapaper, do people actually use apps other than games on their iPads regularly?


I'm seriously considering the Surface 2 after reading these reviews, even though I'd have to pay my cold hard cash to get it (no gifts this year!)
Click to expand...

I agree completely, Reviewers focus too much on what the OS can't do instead of what it can. Same goed for Windows Phone really. I'm sick and tired of the 'yesh but no apps' arguements. The way WP and WinRT are presented now is as if they're behind on everything and one would be stupid to buy either of them.

I have a Surface RT and since I've got the device, I haven't touched my laptop. I used to use my Xperia Z as a tablet because of the screen and hardware power, but I rarely really use that phone either. I used to do everything on that thing.

What I also dislike about Surface 2 (and RT in general) reviews is that they're basically a checklist of features. Surface and RT is so much more than that. Even though I hate the word experience, with WinRT it's also about the experience. The OS is beatiful, functional and it makes sense. In my opinion, the lack of any high profile app is redeemed by the most powerful and fluid beowser I've used on a mobile device: IE.

I'm starting to think that no matter what MS does, it won't be good enough and it's really not fair. I know I'm satisfied and therefor it's easy to say "oh well, I'm happy with my device so I don't care about the reviews", but I do care about the reviews. I care about the financial and commercial succes of Windows RT and Surface because I don't want these amazing devices to die and be overshadowed by less intuitive OS'. I was geniounly mad about CNET's Lumia 1020 review, there were blatant lies in there.
 
Tathanen

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
dLMN8R said:
But we're stuck in this impasse where the press has let the competition define "this is what a tablet is, and any tablet which doesn't do exactly the same stuff or better must be reviewed worse". They barely touch on the unique elements of the Surface at all.
Click to expand...

The Nintendo phenomenon in action. Lateral moves in a technology space are rarely appreciated, much to my chagrin.
 
diffusionx

diffusionx

Gold Member
dLMN8R said:
But we're stuck in this impasse where the press has let the competition define "this is what a tablet is, and any tablet which doesn't do exactly the same stuff or better must be reviewed worse".
Click to expand...

I don't think that is something competitors have done as much as customers. We've known that PCs are massively overpowered for 95% of the population for years.

The one big advantage the Surface has over other tablets is Office, but, really, how many people use Office regularly away from the, erm, office? The nerdy use cases you mention are also done in Android, so MS needs to do either casual stuff or nerdy use cases significantly better than iOS and Android to get a look from people. Right now they don't seem to be doing that.

Also: I think MS severely overestimates the population's love for Windows. The only reason why people use Windows is because it runs everything, except with RT... it doesn't.
 
dem

dem

Member
diffusionx said:
I don't think that is something competitors have done as much as customers.

The one big advantage the Surface has over other tablets is Office, but, really, how many people use Office regularly away from the, erm, office? The nerdy use cases you mention are also done in Android, so MS needs to do either casual stuff or nerdy use cases significantly better than iOS and Android to get a look from people. Right now they don't seem to be doing that.

Also: I think MS severely overestimates the population's love for Windows. The only reason why people use Windows is because it runs everything, except with RT... it doesn't.
Click to expand...

Like..every adult on earth
 
M

madmook

Member
dLMN8R said:
I've never had a problem with gif-heavy threads. The main problematic web sites are those like Cracked.com which have massive amounts of ads and strange scripting on them.
Click to expand...
Sorry to bother you, could you see if mobile gaf works with IE11 on the Surface 2? Thanks.
 
X

Xplatformer

Member
diffusionx said:
I don't think that is something competitors have done as much as customers. We've known that PCs are massively overpowered for 95% of the population for years.

The one big advantage the Surface has over other tablets is Office, but, really, how many people use Office regularly away from the, erm, office? The nerdy use cases you mention are also done in Android, so MS needs to do either casual stuff or nerdy use cases significantly better than iOS and Android to get a look from people. Right now they don't seem to be doing that.
Click to expand...

Disagree. I'd say the one big advantage of Surface RT is that it's interface is the best out there for a tablet.

You could also say that IE 11 is also a big advantage.
 
K

kurbaan

Banned
diffusionx said:
I don't think that is something competitors have done as much as customers. We've known that PCs are massively overpowered for 95% of the population for years.

The one big advantage the Surface has over other tablets is Office, but, really, how many people use Office regularly away from the, erm, office? The nerdy use cases you mention are also done in Android, so MS needs to do either casual stuff or nerdy use cases significantly better than iOS and Android to get a look from people. Right now they don't seem to be doing that.

Also: I think MS severely overestimates the population's love for Windows. The only reason why people use Windows is because it runs everything, except with RT... it doesn't.
Click to expand...

Dude like every single student from like middle school to university. Hell even my parents use word (Occasionally) and thats the only thing aside from browsers.
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
madmook said:
Sorry to bother you, could you see if mobile gaf works with IE11 on the Surface 2? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I don't have a Surface 2, just a Surface RT. Never even touch a Surface 2 :-(

On my laptop running 8.1, m.neogaf.com loads the mobile site, but whenever I click anything from there it transitions back to the full desktop site. Is there a way to make it stick? Would be perfect for snapped states...


kurbaan said:
Dude like every single student from like middle school to university. Hell even my parents use word (Occasionally) and thats the only thing aside from browsers.
Click to expand...

Office is similar to an operating system. The vast majority of people only need a couple of small features from an Office suite, which is why Google Docs is great for many of them. But things get complicated when every person needs a few slightly different small features.
 
M

madmook

Member
dLMN8R said:
I don't have a Surface 2, just a Surface RT. Never even touch a Surface 2 :-(

On my laptop running 8.1, m.neogaf.com loads the mobile site, but whenever I click anything from there it transitions back to the full desktop site. Is there a way to make it stick? Would be perfect for snapped states...
Click to expand...
Oops, mis-read your earlier post. When you get to your RT then could you check? The "snapping" thing is exactly why I might wanna use mobile gaf...
 
A

Alchemy

Member
dLMN8R said:
(I work for microsoft I'm obviously biased blah blah blah))
Click to expand...

Well you should let someone there know that if there is a Surface Pro'er with a good mobile GPU I would buy one immediately. My desktop is getting on in years, and I will be looking to replace it soon. I'm really only looking at other beefy desktops to replace it, or laptop/tablet hybrids with solid GPUs so I can use a dock to have a main workstation and take it around with me when I go mobile.

The Razer Edge is close to what I want, but the Surface with a GPU would be ideal. HD4400 just isn't going to cut it.
 
dem

dem

Member
External GPUs should be a thing..

A surface pro that docks with an external gpu would be beyond awesome.
 
F

fluffydelusions

Member
Alchemy said:
Well you should let someone there know that if there is a Surface Pro'er with a good mobile GPU I would buy one immediately. My desktop is getting on in years, and I will be looking to replace it soon. I'm really only looking at other beefy desktops to replace it, or laptop/tablet hybrids with solid GPUs so I can use a dock to have a main workstation and take it around with me when I go mobile.

The Razer Edge is close to what I want, but the Surface with a GPU would be ideal. HD4400 just isn't going to cut it.
Click to expand...
The razer edge is 765m gpu? I'm not even sure that would cut it for next gen games if that is a concern for you. I would wait till maxwell next year to invest in a gaming laptop for next gen games tbh.
 
R

Ryu1999

Member
dLMN8R said:
I don't have a Surface 2, just a Surface RT. Never even touch a Surface 2 :-(

On my laptop running 8.1, m.neogaf.com loads the mobile site, but whenever I click anything from there it transitions back to the full desktop site. Is there a way to make it stick? Would be perfect for snapped states...
Click to expand...

You'll have to use chrome and useragentswitcher to report you are using a mobile browser like safari for iPad
 
A

Alchemy

Member
fluffydelusions said:
The razer edge is 765m gpu? I'm not even sure that would cut it for next gen games if that is a concern for you. I would wait till maxwell next year to invest in a gaming laptop for next gen games tbh.
Click to expand...

The Edge is just a promise for what I want in a future gaming laptop/tablet/PC, I definitely wouldn't bite on the current version. I just want something that can be portable, or strapped into a workstation on a desk or a TV for gaming. I don't even need the goofy controller attachment, I'm fine with USB wired controllers.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
Alchemy said:
Well you should let someone there know that if there is a Surface Pro'er with a good mobile GPU I would buy one immediately. My desktop is getting on in years, and I will be looking to replace it soon. I'm really only looking at other beefy desktops to replace it, or laptop/tablet hybrids with solid GPUs so I can use a dock to have a main workstation and take it around with me when I go mobile.

The Razer Edge is close to what I want, but the Surface with a GPU would be ideal. HD4400 just isn't going to cut it.
Click to expand...

Dream on. External PCI-e is a PITA. AMD released a PCI-e 8x cable and connector. Look where it is.

Simply put, there is no market for them. The Edge is the only game in town for what you want.

But I can't help laughing at wanting to replace a desktop with a tablet. Why do you think the "DTR" laptops are 17"+?
 
K

kurbaan

Banned
dLMN8R said:
Office is similar to an operating system. The vast majority of people only need a couple of small features from an Office suite, which is why Google Docs is great for many of them. But things get complicated when every person needs a few slightly different small features.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats true but usually any serous projects / papers you cant do in google docs. Usually we would do some stuff in google docs but eventually we would need to move to words to do all the formatting and stuff.
 
A

Alchemy

Member
NeOak said:
Dream on. External PCI-e is a PITA. AMD released a PCI-e 8x cable and connector. Look where it is.

Simply put, there is no market for them. The Edge is the only game in town for what you want.

But I can't help laughing at wanting to replace a desktop with a tablet. Why do you think the "DTR" laptops are 17"+?
Click to expand...

The point isn't to replace a high end desktop with a tablet, but to replace a 4-5+ year old desktop with one. I'm not expecting top of the line performance, I'm willing to give up on some performance for the form factor. Just not willing to dip down to an HD4400.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
Alchemy said:
The point isn't to replace a high end desktop with a tablet, but to replace a 4-5+ year old desktop with one. I'm not expecting top of the line performance, I'm willing to give up on some performance for the form factor. Just not willing to dip down to an HD4400.
Click to expand...

Then these aren't the tablets you are looking for.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
dLMN8R said:
(I work for microsoft I'm obviously biased blah blah blah)


  • The ability to get real, honest to god work done using a proper, near-fully-featured office suite
  • A web browser that supports full flash without any limitations, and yet is still faster than almost every other tablet I've used (including the iPad 3)
  • True side-by-side multitasking, unhindered
  • USB peripheral support for basically everything
  • True multimonitor support for work and hooking it up to any TV effortlessly
  • Actual SNES emulator legitimately published to the Store
  • Actual BitTorrent client that let me catch up on my legitimately-torrent-distributed shows
  • Mobile.HD video player that plays every single file format I've thrown at it
  • Full file system access to browse the network, SD cards, and more, without any hassles or requirements for any third-party software
  • Using it as a gigantic backup battery. I fully-charged a dead phone and 3DS using its USB port and still had enogh battery for a 2-3 hour layover and the entire flight

The only complaints I had the entire time was that the keyboard is difficult to use in my lap, and it's simply slow. The Surface RT is a slowww device, and only web browsing is faster than competing tablets I've used.
Click to expand...

What did you do that was slow? Seems like a light list. Other tablets would choke under any kind of moderate workload. Anandtech briefly touches on that in their asus t100 review. So, I don't expect much out of most tablets right now. iPad, Surface, and so on can't be anything more than a lightweight consumption/productivity machine even if they had the ability to run more software.

My surface chokes on PowerPoint presenter view, 2-4 HD videos side-by-side, sections in Onenote with a bunch of images, and certain websites. Doubt the Tegra 4 can do it well either. I think the websites is more down to the site than HW because watching GoT through HBOGo is awful. HBO through Comcast Xfinity is awesome. Did a marathon with RT connected to my receiver and it was glorious. No need for the expensive Blu-ray set that I was only going to watch once. Love using these tablets as HTPCs. Biggest problem with almost all tablets in general is lack of SSD. eMMC sucks. Maybe a thunderbolt port too as a niche feature.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
If this damn thing doesn't get here tomorrow I'm going to rage!

What's the point of getting it through Microsoft if I can just get it from Best Buy the day of?
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
kurbaan said:
Yeah thats true but usually any serous projects / papers you cant do in google docs. Usually we would do some stuff in google docs but eventually we would need to move to words to do all the formatting and stuff.
Click to expand...

That's my point :)

Most people just need a tiny set of features, and some of those people find that tiny set of features satisfied by Google Docs. But Office is still used by more than a billion people because, since it does almost everything, it works for everyone. Even of those people are only each using a few small features.


TheLaughingStock said:
What did you do that was slow? Seems like a light list. Other tablets would choke under any kind of moderate workload. Anandtech briefly touches on that in their asus t100 review. So, I don't expect much out of most tablets right now. iPad, Surface, and so on can't be anything more than a lightweight consumption/productivity machine even if they had the ability to run more software.

My surface chokes on PowerPoint presenter view, 2-4 HD videos side-by-side, sections in Onenote with a bunch of images, and certain websites. Doubt the Tegra 4 can do it well either. I think the websites is more down to the site than HW because watching GoT through HBOGo is awful. HBO through Comcast Xfinity is awesome. Did a marathon with RT connected to my receiver and it was glorious. No need for the expensive Blu-ray set that I was only going to watch once. Love using these tablets as HTPCs. Biggest problem with almost all tablets in general is lack of SSD. eMMC sucks. Maybe a thunderbolt port too as a niche feature.
Click to expand...
On heavier workloads I'd absolutely agree, but I'm more talking about things like content-heavy web sites slowing down the machine until IE crashes (cracked.com was the example I used earlier which frequently does this). Apps take a huge amount of time to load. Games particularly perform very slowly.

From the reviews I've read, it sounds like those problems have become completely nonexistent.
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
I see that 3D Mark was just posted to the store for Windows 8.1, so that should make for some more consistent benchmarking. I assume that's what AnandTech already used though :)
 
K

kurbaan

Banned
madmook said:
Oops, mis-read your earlier post. When you get to your RT then could you check? The "snapping" thing is exactly why I might wanna use mobile gaf...
Click to expand...

I just checked on my Surface and Gaf behaves the same way. You can go to m.neogaf.com but when you click on a forum it goes to regular desktop view.

I haven't found it a problem but depends on the person.

hwalker84 said:
If this damn thing doesn't get here tomorrow I'm going to rage!

What's the point of getting it through Microsoft if I can just get it from Best Buy the day of?
Click to expand...

Microsoft store online is the worst for preorders. I ordered 1020 from there didn't get it till like a week after it came out but atleast they gave me a 150 dollar gift card
 
Tathanen

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Welp I got Office 356 in prep for this, and cause my home machines really need an upgrade, and the included 20GB skydrive upgrade has inspired me to move virtually all of my shit to the cloud. Music was already on Google Play, but now all photos are on Drobox instead of just my camera uploads, and all my documents are on Skydrive. I'd have put photos on there too, but I guess the Android Skydrive app doesn't do the auto-sync with camera photos that you get from Dropbox, so nuts to THAT.

It'll be sweet tho, hookin up the accounts on the Surface tomorrow and all of the files just magically appearing. The power of the CLOUD!!!!!!!!

Sure wish Google Play would let me sync that online library between multiple machines, though, instead of just mirroring computer changes to the Play library. I can't fit my 30-odd GB of mp3s on any of the other cloud storage options without paying more (which I might do anyway eventually, this shit's getting addictive), so I'll have to do a manual transfer to the Surface there.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
I just want a tablet that will play Hearthstone. I think the SP2 can do that. Probably overkill.
 
L

lastflowers

Banned
dLMN8R said:
I see that 3D Mark was just posted to the store for Windows 8.1, so that should make for some more consistent benchmarking. I assume that's what AnandTech already used though :)
Click to expand...

I'd really like to have a candid conversation with those guys/gals about their testing processes. It seems to me like they have some amazing little tech lab with proto-boards and FPGAs and all kinds of funny gizmos. No clue why I think this, but I feel like they have a garage that is a mirror of my college ECE labs.
 
C

CriterionDog

Member
Anyone have ANY luck finding a type cover 2 that's black, that ISN'T out of stock online?
Also, I am ordering my surface pro 2 256gb tonight or tomorrow after classes along with an arc surface mouse : )
 
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