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[Kinyou]

Some stuff in Surface/WinRT is confusing. I was trying to change the wallpaper on my desktop (app?). I can access the files in my pictures library on my desktop pc on windows 7 using the photos app, but from there all I can do with the photos is set them as the app tile/app background or lock screen. I found out the settings in the desktop app to change the background and it looked just like windows 7 but it could not see any of the photos from my desktop pc.

So to work around it I went into the photos app and found the wallpaper image on my desktop that I wanted to use, took a screenshot and then went back into the desktop app and set my wallpaper to the screenshot of the picture that I just took. Kinda confusing.

This took way too long:

So it sounds like there's hardly an communication between the apps. That would be disappointing.

 

[Milchjon]

It's not unlike console wars

I'd love to think that a key component of console wars is the younger age of gamers, who might not be able to afford more than one console. Phones/tablets/OSs shouldn't attract the same crowd, but oh my. Looking at GAF and even some of my own posts, this might not be true.

I also think that at least iPad and Surface are different enough in their "value proposition" and features that it should be more easy to just say "yeah, that's some great stuff." I'd choose the Surface over the iPad for sure, because it fits my needs much better, but I won't feel the need to discount key advantages like the app situation or the screen. I don't get why some people are so down on some of the advantages of Surface.

 

[brotkasten]

Every action on the Surface feels deliberate. It feels like you’re using a computer.

The standard gestures don’t help, requiring many in-from-the-edge swipes that not only aren’t discoverable but also frequently conflict with scrolling. My gestures often didn’t work, and it wasn’t clear whether there just wasn’t a hidden context menu at that moment or I just screwed up the swipe.

Most of the animations also aren’t helpful, with minimal spatial consistency. Many animations seem arbitrary, not hinting at anything behaviorally useful. Microsoft has applied animations and gestures in Windows 8 about as effectively as they applied color in Windows XP and transparency in Windows Vista: they knew that Apple had been successful with these features, so they made a checklist and just applied them haphazardly. “Apple does animations, so now we do animations! Apple does gestures, so now we have gestures!”

That was the part that struck me the most. While I agree that not everything in Windows 8 is intuitive, I think it's far better and nicer to use than iOS. I wish iOS on my iPad was as good as Windows 8/RT.

I'd love to think that a key component of console wars is the younger age of gamers, who might not be able to afford more than one console. Phones/tablets/OSs shouldn't attract the same crowd, but oh my. Looking at GAF and even some of my own posts, this might not be true.

I also think that at least iPad and Surface are different enough in their "value proposition" and features that it should be more easy to just say "yeah, that's some great stuff." I'd choose the Surface over the iPad for sure, because it fits my needs much better, but I won't feel the need to discount key advantages like the app situation or the screen. I don't get why some people are so down on some of the advantages of Surface.

Milchjon, why do you hate my iPad so much?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I'd love to think that a key component of console wars is the younger age of gamers, who might not be able to afford more than one console. Phones/tablets/OSs shouldn't attract the same crowd, but oh my. Looking at GAF and even some of my own posts, this might not be true.

I also think that at least iPad and Surface are different enough in their "value proposition" and features that it should be more easy to just say "yeah, that's some great stuff." I'd choose the Surface over the iPad for sure, because it fits my needs much better, but I won't feel the need to discount key advantages like the app situation or the screen. I don't get why some people are so down on some of the advantages of Surface.

I think that the two devices don't really differ much in their "value proposition" to the average consumer. Not at all.

 

[Milchjon]

Milchjon, why do you hate my iPad so much?

Does it play Halo?

See, didn't think so.

I think that the two devices don't really differ much in their "value proposition" to the average consumer. Not at all.

Well, but it's more clear cut than with iOS/Android or the 360/PS3.

You don't get a kickstand, Office, Touch Cover or side by side multitasking on the iPad. So if you value these, the iPad is out of the question.
On the flip side, if you want a very high PPI or access to pretty much every app ever made, you won't go with the Surface.

The other system wars I mentioned are much closer in their respective feature sets.

 

[IHaveCandy]

He started selling me on the screen quality, saying it had a better screen than any other tablet. I asked, “What do you mean? Which other tablets?”

I couldn’t get him to say “iPad”, but he did say it was better than “Retina screens”.

I broke character slightly. “I don’t know, I saw the Retina iPad upstairs and I can’t see the pixels at all on it. On here, I can see the pixels clearly.”

“No you can’t. Where can you see the individual pixels?”

“Right there. See, the left stroke on that capital ‘D’ has one solid pixel on the left and a half-shaded pixel on the right.”

He scaled the icon up to “zoom in”, which, of course, changes what the physical pixels display. “I can’t see any pixels!”

I know all retail stores have their uninformed/lying salesman, but wow. That's something straight out of a sitcom.


I honestly cannot understand the appeal of Windows RT. Maybe in a year or two the platform will seem more appealing and have a better selection of apps. At this point, it feels like such a gamble to jump in and hope the dev support comes. I think Metro does a few things iOS doesn't, and should do, but the interface doesn't really make sense to me. I wish Apple or somebody else would basically have the iOS screen for apps, and have a gesture-retrieved screen for widgets and all the other social stuff. Both iOS and RT get it half right.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I don't get RT either. Seems very limited for its price and heft.

I have a feeling the only reason we're not getting the Pro yet is because MS said they'd give 3rd parties time to sell their own products before they get undercutted on price or something with the surface pro. Or they're waiting for haswell or something, OR BOTH. They seem content with letting RT drive the platform alone right now. I wonder if it'll maintain interest after this launch, like 2 months from now.

Either way, gimme pro.

 

[Apath]

There's a lot of questionable stuff in there, so I dunno. I've been to a MS store, and yeah, their appearance tries to mirror Apple stores. I'll also believe him when it comes to the guys working there. But when it comes to other stuff...



What the hell is that supposed to mean? "It's a bit heavier than the iPad 3", so it's totally heavy? Also, from holding it myself, I don't agree.
And of course he's mentioning how the weight doesn't include the cover, but doesn't mention that most people use Smart Covers on iPads.



This one just makes him look like an idiot. A keyboard that keeps your screen keyboard-free isn't superior how?



Is he really trying to say a) that the iPad Mini is the next generation of iPads, and b) that the Surface isn't mainly competing with the full size iPad?

Also, after playing with the Surface/Metro, I won't ever feel like an iPad is "current generation" until they seriously update iOS. It makes iOS feel obsolete as an OS.



I can say for certain that's semi-true at most, possibly not true at all. You can place your hands on the keyboard and it will know you're not typing.

The thing I didn't try is keeping my hands on the cover and only moving one finger to type (I still type like shit, so it's not my natural way of typing ;-) ). Can someone who owns one say more about this?

Wow that guy sounds like a total tool.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Wow that guy sounds like a total tool.

I'd recommend reading the actual blogpost instead of Milchjon's equally hilarious nitpicks and kneejerk interpretations of "what he actually meant".
Sure it's written with a apple slant, but it's a entertaining read none the less.

 

[brotkasten]

I don't get RT either. Seems very limited for its price and heft.

I have a feeling the only reason we're not getting the Pro yet is because MS said they'd give 3rd parties time to sell their own products before they get undercutted on price or something with the surface pro. Or they're waiting for haswell or something, OR BOTH. They seem content with letting RT drive the platform alone right now. I wonder if it'll maintain interest after this launch, like 2 months from now.

Either way, gimme pro.

The first Surface Pro will not be Haswell.

I'd recommend reading the actual blogpost instead of Milchjon's equally hilarious nitpicks and kneejerk interpretations of "what he actually meant".
Sure it's written with a apple slant, but it's a entertaining read none the less.

He does sound like a total tool in his blog. Jon's nitpicks didn't change that. All he posted was "This is different than what I'm used to, it sucks!".

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

The first Surface Pro will not be Haswell.

probably not when it releases. Unless you're saying the whole entire first revision won't ever be haswell. In which case I'm comfortable supporting a good OEM.

 

[Milchjon]

I'd recommend reading the actual blogpost instead of Milchjon's equally hilarious nitpicks and kneejerk interpretations of "what he actually meant".
Sure it's written with a apple slant, but it's a entertaining read none the less.

I'd like to read how you're understanding the things that you call my "interpretation of what he actually meant". Because after going over both his and my statements again, I don't see what you mean.

But yeah, everyone go ahead and read his post. Don't take my word for it. (Although you might not want to rely on him as your sole source on how Surface works.)

 

[brotkasten]

probably not when it releases. Unless you're saying the whole entire first revision won't ever be haswell. In which case I'm comfortable supporting a good OEM.

That's what I'm saying. By the time Haswell comes out, the second generation Surface will be well into development.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

That's what I'm saying. By the time Haswell comes out, the second generation of the Pro will be well into development.

either way, first to nail down good price + good form factor + haswell gets my money, no matter who it is.

 

[Milchjon]

That's what I'm saying. By the time Haswell comes out, the second generation Surface will be well into development.

Do you think MS will make Surface 2 regardless of the success of the first?

 

[railGUN]

Looking for reviews, I found this blog: http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/

Seems pretty buggy at the moment.

 

[brotkasten]

Do you think MS will make Surface 2 regardless of the success of the first?

Absolutely. It's already in development.

 

[Apath]

I'd recommend reading the actual blogpost instead of Milchjon's equally hilarious nitpicks and kneejerk interpretations of "what he actually meant".
Sure it's written with a apple slant, but it's a entertaining read none the less.

From the actual blog, you're right, he comes off as less of a tool. But it also seems to me that he is nearly as pro-Apple as the Microsoft employees are pro-MS.

I mean, would he go into the Apple store and walk away complaining about the price of the iPad 4, saying he could get two Minis for the price of one?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I'd like to read how you're understanding the things that you call my "interpretation of what he actually meant". Because after going over both his and my statements again, I don't see what you mean.

But yeah, everyone go ahead and read his post. Don't take my word for it. (Although you might not want to rely on him as your sole source on how Surface works.)

I'm just saying it's an entertaining blogpost about his experience in a Microsoft Retail store. Not a in-depth Surface review. Why treat it as such.

You were just jumping to conclusions that the guy is a total tool because the touch keyboard is "undoubtedly superior" and calling him out for questioning it's purpose when it's in fact a 100$ optional accessory that most people won't need nor purchase when a touchscreen apparently does just fine for millions of existing tablet owners.

It's not like those iPad keyboards are flying off the shelves, despite there being some actual great damn products in that particular segment.

Also him calling it the unit dense is neither a pro or con, it's all a matter of preference. There are plenty of people who prefer that their products are inflexible and have a certain "heft" that makes it feel well-made.

And from my (admittedly short) experience with the metro UI, it's far from intuitive on first use. It's not difficult to see someone having a disjointed experience when coming from something extremely simple like iOS.

 

[Justin]

Marco's story is hilarious. MS store seems like a nightmare.

That is the Bellevue store, I was there at around 11am this morning and it was packed inside (with a line of 100+ outside the store waiting to purchase their surface) so I am curious as to what time he was there when there was "more employees than customers".

I do wonder though if he spoke with the same person as I did because I also didn't feel that the employee that I spoke too was too confident in his answers.

Aside from that I eavesdropped over a few peoples shoulders and they all seemed really impressed with the Surface.

 

[Milchjon]

Looking for reviews, I found this blog: http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/

Seems pretty buggy at the moment.

Ah, yeah, that's the review I mentioned that seems to have gone viral on Twitter.

Like I said, he's right in that shipping with a preview version is a recipe for disaster.
I still think he's overreacting a bit, both of the things he mentions are, though inexcuseable, not hard to fix.

From the actual blog, you're right, he comes off as less of a tool. But it also seems to me that he is nearly as pro-Apple as the Microsoft employees are pro-MS.

I mean, would he go into the Apple store and walk away complaining about the price of the iPad 4, saying he could get two Minis for the price of one?

Well, I was selectively quoting the stuff that I disagreed with that stuck out to me the most. Maybe next time I should c/p the whole thing about the store too to make it more balanced ;-)

 

[Apath]

Also him calling it the unit dense is neither a pro or con, it's all a matter of preference. There are plenty of people who prefer that their products are inflexible and have a certain "heft" that makes it feel well-made.

I disagree. It appears to imply that the unit's dense feeling is a negative by grouping it with the tablet being heavier:

But it’s not just heavy: it feels dense, like the iPhone 4 and 4S (and notably not like the iPhone 5).

And he likens it to previous iPhone iterations, rather than the newest one (and goes to extra lengths to separate it). Unless he specifically made an argument somewhere that he preferred the "dense" feeling of the 4/4S to the 5, I'd say his intent is apparent.

Well, I was selectively quoting the stuff that I disagreed with that stuck out to me the most. Maybe next time I should c/p the whole thing about the store too to make it more balanced ;-)

You're free to nit-pick what you dislike in an article; I wasn't the one who said your reaction was hilarious. It's pretty obvious the guy [Edit -- the blog poster, not Hoo-doo] is an Apple fan boy and heavily prefers Apple to Microsoft. And I'm not saying he's wrong on the points, as I've never used Surface and I will never be purchasing Surface RT.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Looking for reviews, I found this blog: http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/

Seems pretty buggy at the moment.

Yikes. Microsoft needs to hotfix that version of Word fast. This is unacceptable.

 

[aesop]

Yikes. Microsoft needs to hotfix that version of Word fast. This is unacceptable.

They already have. Full release was available last night. Apparently tech bloggers turn stupid when they touch Microsoft products.

 

[Milchjon]

I'm just saying it's an entertaining blogpost about his experience in a Microsoft Retail store. Not a in-depth Surface review. Why treat it as such.

I didn't treat it as a review, I just pointed out where I felt he was wrong.

You were just jumping to conclusions that the guy is a total tool because the touch keyboard is "undoubtedly superior" and calling him out for questioning it's purpose when it's in fact a 100$ optional accessory that most people won't need nor purchase when a touchscreen apparently does just fine for millions of existing tablet owners.

He missed the point of the Touch Cover, is what I was trying to say. It's not solely about speed.

It's not like those iPad keyboards are flying off the shelves, despite there being some actual great damn products in that particular segment.

I haven't yet seen any that was as neatly integrated. They all add a lot of bulk because they're full keyboards, or did I miss something?

Also, don't forget that the Touch Cover includes the "functionality" of a Smart Cover, which many, many people buy.

Also him calling it the unit dense is neither a pro or con, it's all a matter of preference. There are plenty of people who prefer that their products are inflexible and have a certain "heft" that makes it feel well-made.

The heft part didn't relate to what I've said. I initially put it into the quote because it made it rather obvious that Apple is his frame of reference for everything, but forgot about it. If you read what I wrote, my nitpick was his opinion on the weight.

And from my (admittedly short) experience with the metro UI, it's far from intuitive on first use. It's not difficult to see someone having a disjointed experience when coming from something extremely simple like iOS.

I didn't comment on that in any way in my post. In fact, if you read my post a bit further up about my own experience with it, you'll see I said the same thing.

I just commented on things where I thought he was factually wrong/illogical (Cover, Keyboard, Generation/Price)

But I won't add any more fanboy drama from my side

 

[envi123]

That is the Bellevue store, I was there at around 11am this morning and it was packed inside (with a line of 100+ outside the store waiting to purchase their surface) so I am curious as to what time he was there when there was "more employees than customers".

I do wonder though if he spoke with the same person as I did because I also didn't feel that the employee that I spoke too was too confident in his answers.

Aside from that I eavesdropped over a few peoples shoulders and they all seemed really impressed with the Surface.

That's not Bellevue. That's the Westchester Mall in White Plains, NY.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Looking for reviews, I found this blog: http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/

Seems pretty buggy at the moment.

Oh that copy of word is the Word 2013 Preview. If I'm not mistaken via Windows Update you can get the final version. I'd like to see someone who has updated to the final version of Word 2013 see if they can have those problems.

edit: I see in the comments that other people who have updated to the final Office don't see the Word issue.

 

[Kafel]

They already have. Full release was available last night. Apparently tech bloggers turn stupid when they touch Microsoft products.

True.

 

[lunch]

I watched a Microsoft employee demo a Surface today, and while I can't afford one, I had such a case of gadget lust. I was really surprised by how good the screen looked, even with the low resolution, but that could be a bit of Windows 8 excitement clouding my judgment. In the two minutes I used it, the touch cover felt really weird, but I had some performance anxiety since other people were watching. Still, all in all, I was impressed.

 

[IHaveCandy]

The guy is clearly biased and favors Apple products, but his story about the Microsoft Store is believable. Sounds like any computer store where sales associates are very high-pressure. I like the Apple Store because they just let me use their stuff. And if I have a question, I can come to them. I don't think these Microsoft Stores are going to have nearly as much success as the Apple Stores.

 

[Mairu]

I really like the hardware but I am not really happy with WinRT. This will be awesome when Surface Pro comes out and it's actually usable and functional.

Kind of a giant fingerprint magnet on the back though, this was after one night:

I didn't have any issues with the MS Store except I was confused when they started randomly yelling and cheering. It was like when you're at a grocery store and they cheer for someone donating or something except I had no idea why they'd all start yelling and cheering. A bit more company kool aid involved in working there than the Apple Store I guess.

 

[fluffydelusions]

The guy is clearly biased and favors Apple products, but his story about the Microsoft Store is believable. Sounds like any computer store where sales associates are very high-pressure. I like the Apple Store because they just let me use their stuff. And if I have a question, I can come to them. I don't think these Microsoft Stores are going to have nearly as much success as the Apple Stores.

Especially since Windows laptops can be pretty much purchased anywhere which is not really the case with Apple.

 

[Milchjon]

I really like the hardware but I am not really happy with WinRT. This will be awesome when Surface Pro comes out and it's actually usable and functional.

Wait and see those hopes crushed under extra weight, shitty battery life and >$1000 price

What are your main gripes with RT?

 

[fluffydelusions]

Wait and see those hopes crushed under extra weight, shitty battery life and >$1000 price

What are your main gripes with RT?

I think the main issue with RT atm is lack of apps. They will come eventually though. iPhone, iPad, Android etc didn't start with hundreds of thousands of apps

 

[brotkasten]

Especially since Windows laptops can be pretty much purchased anywhere which is not really the case with Apple.

Pretty much. The only good thing about PCs sold on the Microsoft Store is that they don't come with any crapware.

 

[Mairu]

Wait and see those hopes crushed under extra weight, shitty battery life and >$1000 price

What are your main gripes with RT?

I think the main issue with RT atm is lack of apps. They will come eventually though. iPhone, iPad, Android etc didn't start with hundreds of thousands of apps

Lack of apps and the poor performance of the apps that are currently there. I'm not really sure what to expect from the Surface Pro's battery life, but I won't be unhappy with the price unless it's more than $1,299. Unless having the currently listed internals squished into the surface leads to poor performance and <6 hour battery life, I think I'll be pretty happy with the Surface Pro. I'm not so sure how the half pound difference in weight will effect my opinion though.

I also think the current limitations with RT make it slightly confusing. I'm not sure if it's also like this with Windows 8 (I was kind of fearful of putting Win8 on my desktop w/o a touch interface) but the apps and desktop are so disconnected. Stuff like the screenshot issues I was mentioning earlier are just annoying.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Lack of apps and the poor performance of the apps that are currently there. I'm not really sure what to expect from the Surface Pro's battery life, but I won't be unhappy with the price unless it's more than $1,299. Unless having the currently listed internals squished into the surface leads to poor performance and <6 hour battery life, I think I'll be pretty happy with the Surface Pro. I'm not so sure how the half pound difference in weight will effect my opinion though.

I also think the current limitations with RT make it slightly confusing. I'm not sure if it's also like this with Windows 8 (I was kind of fearful of putting Win8 on my desktop w/o a touch interface) but the apps and desktop are so disconnected. Stuff like the screenshot issues I was mentioning earlier are just annoying.

I'm using it on my desktop(laptop really) and it's fine. It's not like you have to use metro and their are quite a bit replacement start menu options you can use if you prefer.

 

[Windu]

Lack of apps and the poor performance of the apps that are currently there. I'm not really sure what to expect from the Surface Pro's battery life, but I won't be unhappy with the price unless it's more than $1,299. Unless having the currently listed internals squished into the surface leads to poor performance and <6 hour battery life, I think I'll be pretty happy with the Surface Pro. I'm not so sure how the half pound difference in weight will effect my opinion though.

I also think the current limitations with RT make it slightly confusing. I'm not sure if it's also like this with Windows 8 (I was kind of fearful of putting Win8 on my desktop w/o a touch interface) but the apps and desktop are so disconnected. Stuff like the screenshot issues I was mentioning earlier are just annoying.

i'm still not sure what problems you were having changing your background. All of the images are saved by default in your Pictures Library. That is what the Metro Photos application points to and you can obviously get to that in the desktop. (open up explorer)

 

[derFeef]

Anyone using Skydrive? Is it integrated into the system really well?
I am asking because I am almost excusively working off of SkyDrive now, but it's a bit dodgy in Win 7.

edit: that's supposed to be in the Win 8 OT but it kinda suits here too

 

[Key2001]

Lack of apps and the poor performance of the apps that are currently there. I'm not really sure what to expect from the Surface Pro's battery life, but I won't be unhappy with the price unless it's more than $1,299. Unless having the currently listed internals squished into the surface leads to poor performance and <6 hour battery life, I think I'll be pretty happy with the Surface Pro. I'm not so sure how the half pound difference in weight will effect my opinion though.

I also think the current limitations with RT make it slightly confusing. I'm not sure if it's also like this with Windows 8 (I was kind of fearful of putting Win8 on my desktop w/o a touch interface) but the apps and desktop are so disconnected. Stuff like the screenshot issues I was mentioning earlier are just annoying.

I don't think you have to worry about the price being $1,299 or more(at least for the base mode). Compare the Surface RT to other comparable tablets and it is price around the same or cheaper. I can't see Microsoft changing this with the Surface Pro. There are W8 Core i5 tablets/hybrids with 128GB SSD, keyboards and in some case include features not in the Surface Pro such as 4G LTE for $1,299 or cheaper. I don't think Microsoft will price the 64GB Surface Pro without a keyboard at $1,299 let alone more.

This is not even taking into account possible price drops by time the Surface Pro is released.

I was going to buy the Samsung ATIV 500T but decided to wait for the Surface Pro myself. Unless by some chance there is some accuracy to the Q1/Q2 Haswell reports.

 

[Haklong]

I can say that after getting the last flash update, YouTube runs well on my surface even at 1080p. Is it the same for anyone else? Are any of you have issues with YouTube?

 

[dLMN8R]

Holy shit, the Type Cover is revelatory. It really is an honest to god keyboard packed into a thin, sturdy cover. And while it's thicker than the touch cover (almost twice as thick by the specs), it sure doesn't feel like it.

Bought it without hesitation, and I fucking LOVE IT. Once the Surface Pro comes out, the Type Cover will genuinely make it a capable laptop replacement.

To update to the full office, you need to use the desktop windows update.

To do this search for windows update in settings, and select install optional updates.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/microsoft-surface-upgrade-final-office-2013-rt-144650

Just a note on this - it's because the release is deliberately being rolled out slowly for bandwidth purposes. So yeah you can install it manually, but you don't have to. Unless you're planning on using Office extensively right away, you may as well leave it - it'll eventually get updated automatically in the background without you having to sit there waiting for it to install.

 

[KoukiFC]

Anyone using Skydrive? Is it integrated into the system really well?
I am asking because I am almost excusively working off of SkyDrive now, but it's a bit dodgy in Win 7.

edit: that's supposed to be in the Win 8 OT but it kinda suits here too

It's pretty well done. You can access the skydrive though the metro file browser.

I wanted to post an item on craigslist, so I took pics with my iphone & uploaded them on skydrive.
I then went on craigslist with my Surface and was able to upload pics straight from skydrive. Really cool.

Office 2013 also has skydrive integration. I edited my resume and saved it directly on my skydrive.

Skydrive can also stream video. I put an avi in it, and was able to stream it on my Surface.

 

[EriCKY]

someone needs to make an aim cause i'm one of the small percent that still use it


IM+ is really terrible.

 

[Everdred]

Received my surface on Friday and haven't run into any problems yet. Love the hardware and OS.

 

[zychi]

does the surface accept random bluetooth keyboards and mice? specifically the apple magic mouse and wireless keyboard? i purchased a macbook air this week and am now debating on returning it and getting a windows 8 tablet to go with my htpc.

 

[dLMN8R]

does the surface accept random bluetooth keyboards and mice? specifically the apple magic mouse and wireless keyboard? i purchased a macbook air this week and am now debating on returning it and getting a windows 8 tablet to go with my htpc.

If those peripherals work automatically on Windows 7 without requiring any extra drivers to be downloaded, it's 99.9% certain they'll work on Surface.

 

[Retrocide]

Much better for sure. Still not as good as I'd expect, but definitely usable at this point.

For those of you who use OneNote, the latest update is a great polish release. You can now Share things to onenote, which is a nice touch.

Yeah, I just noticed...very nice

 

[Subitai]

So, what are people getting as games for Surface? Or are you getting games? In a way this is MS portable gaming system vs 3DS and Vita even though MS is positioning it nowhere near that as iPad/smart-phones are where casual gaming is headed.

 

[Windu]

So, what are people getting as games for Surface? Or are you getting games? In a way this is MS portable gaming system vs 3DS and Vita even though MS is positioning it nowhere near that as iPad/smart-phones are where casual gaming is headed.

here is what Microsoft has announced so far in terms of xbox enabled games

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/windows/games

not all of them are in the store though, also beyond just xbox games there are just normal games that anybody can submit.