It's one and the same if its coming from the App Store and metro. Required to run on both.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Surface |OT|
- Thread starter strata8
- Start date
It's one and the same if its coming from the App Store and metro. Required to run on both.
They are going to allow other companies to make accessories that use the connector. They will have some degree of quality control in place though, to prevent junk from coming out.
App Store apps can be x86 only or ARM only, but the overwhelming majority will work with both.
Dreams-Visions
Member
MrGreencastle
Member
I use my Surface as my main computer throughout the day at school, and mine doesn't have a single thing wrong with it... It looks like it's just an acid stain on the magnesium. I could be wrong, though.
Xplatformer
Member
So...the stand.
For those that have picked up a Surface, what's the opinion on the durability of the stand? Think a year from now it'll still click into place? Still feel sturdy?
For those that have picked up a Surface, what's the opinion on the durability of the stand? Think a year from now it'll still click into place? Still feel sturdy?
MrGreencastle
Member
She'll hold.
Yeah, seems really well made. No fear.
Thank you Panos!
I really need to hold out until Surface Pro but I still can't get over how impressed I was with the RT.
My main performance problem is the music app (whatever it's called). Always tends to hang my system and I need to restart.
I ended up returning the Surface today. I actually really liked the tablet itself, I just wasn't interested in "beta testing" Windows RT. It might be great in 6 months to a year but I'm worried about the confusion WinRT vs Win8 will bring.
Can't wait for the Surface Pro though. Assuming the battery life isn't too bad and the performance is good I'll be picking it up. I'll continue to follow the Surface & apps that get released as I think MS did an amazing job with the design. The type cover, while mine seemed to have some issues at times, is a great keyboard and a great concept.
Can't wait for the Surface Pro though. Assuming the battery life isn't too bad and the performance is good I'll be picking it up. I'll continue to follow the Surface & apps that get released as I think MS did an amazing job with the design. The type cover, while mine seemed to have some issues at times, is a great keyboard and a great concept.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I'm just debating whether I'd be more interested in Surface Pro revision 1 or 2. I'm always afraid of first revisions of completely new products.
lastflowers
Banned
Same here in a sense. I'm planning on picking up the Surface Pro V2 next year and dumping this one. The only reason I have my RT now is because I didn't want to get a Surface pro without Haswell. Haswell's a massive leap over what's coming in v1.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Indeed. I also want Haswell and am unsure when MS would update their surface line. I'm fine waiting though, for now. As long as there is a viable app store and better performance waiting for me. Get on it folks!
MrGreencastle
Member
Yeah, I'll be interested in the Pro as soon as it doesn't have a freaking fan. RT for me is great, RDP for x86 apps is even better (especially with unlimited LTE
). The performance of the tablet is iffy in a few select places, but I can only imagine that will get patched in due time, it's a brand new platform after all. Similarly, I know Microsoft is prepping a substantial OS upgrade a year from now, code-named BLUE. So it looks like they've decided to switch to a more rolling release cycle, vs their usual SP deal. I mean, RTM had a major upgrade pre-release, which is unheard of for Microsoft. I have to say, I like it.
Either way, I'm more than happy with this PC. Yes, I consider it a PC, and a glimpse into the future for Microsoft, and computing in general.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Do we have any factual evidence that they'll do v2 surfaces, and that this isn't a one time thing to correspond with the OS launch, and will hand everything over to 3rd parties from thereon out?
lastflowers
Banned
Nope, i'm just guessing that MS will. If not, I'll grab a decent third party tablet if I feel my surface isn't up to snuff.
I'm not entirely convinced that Surface Pro will be the the exact laptop replacement everyone will be looking for. It's still has a fixed angle stand compared to the laptops we're used to. So depending on how much actual work you need to do while on the go, it might not suit that use case well. Even if you do put it on your lap, I'd imagine you want to use it more as a touch interface rather than using the trackpad to navigate it because it's not as steady. Also since it's primarily a landscape device plus the extra weight, it's less convenient to use while you're moving around in a tablet mode as well.
I can imagine if they released the Surface Pro right now, you'll get those kind of complaints from people who use both iPads and Laptops as their reference point, which a number of reviews on Surface RT already do. What may improve when Surface Pro actually launches is that the metro apps on the store might alleviate that situation, because desktop is still a bad interface for touch. It might be less of a problem if you cannot use desktop on the go as well if there are good app replacements for what you want to do. Maybe Microsoft saw this coming and that's why they decided to release the Pro at a later date? Nahh.
But of course, there's still one thing I haven't factored in which is the pen input. The pen might be a good solution to any downsides the surface pro form factor may bring because it's very flexible in changing use forms unlike other hybrids which is either heavier or has a bulky dock. While Windows 8 support for pen input should be light years ahead of the other platforms, the number of hardware that really do is still not that significant. Pen input is still a niche and so thus is the software support. I don't want it just for drawing, but rather another primary method to interact with the interface.
I've always disagreed that touch input is the end all solution for mobile devices and I've wanted a touch + pen solution for a while now. Touch has its advantage in manipulation but it's not precise and limited as we've gotten a point that platforms are now using two or more finger swipes and gestures which are unnatural. That's why I was very enthusiastic about the Courier concept and was sad to see it shelved. Maybe Surface Pro will help push the touch + pen solution forward again? Ehh, it's probably a stretch.
I can imagine if they released the Surface Pro right now, you'll get those kind of complaints from people who use both iPads and Laptops as their reference point, which a number of reviews on Surface RT already do. What may improve when Surface Pro actually launches is that the metro apps on the store might alleviate that situation, because desktop is still a bad interface for touch. It might be less of a problem if you cannot use desktop on the go as well if there are good app replacements for what you want to do. Maybe Microsoft saw this coming and that's why they decided to release the Pro at a later date? Nahh.
But of course, there's still one thing I haven't factored in which is the pen input. The pen might be a good solution to any downsides the surface pro form factor may bring because it's very flexible in changing use forms unlike other hybrids which is either heavier or has a bulky dock. While Windows 8 support for pen input should be light years ahead of the other platforms, the number of hardware that really do is still not that significant. Pen input is still a niche and so thus is the software support. I don't want it just for drawing, but rather another primary method to interact with the interface.
I've always disagreed that touch input is the end all solution for mobile devices and I've wanted a touch + pen solution for a while now. Touch has its advantage in manipulation but it's not precise and limited as we've gotten a point that platforms are now using two or more finger swipes and gestures which are unnatural. That's why I was very enthusiastic about the Courier concept and was sad to see it shelved. Maybe Surface Pro will help push the touch + pen solution forward again? Ehh, it's probably a stretch.
MightyKAC
Member
There are only 2 factors that would keep me from buying a Surface pro.
How far north the base 128gb unit cost of $999 it is, and how far south the active battery life of 7 hour it is.
If both of these factors end up being negligible then for the first time in a very LONG time, Microsoft will have my money.
How far north the base 128gb unit cost of $999 it is, and how far south the active battery life of 7 hour it is.
If both of these factors end up being negligible then for the first time in a very LONG time, Microsoft will have my money.
Well they are claiming they are now a devices and services company and that they will continue to make devices. So it isn't concrete, but what else could it mean?
Yeah, they have some things there and I should try it sometime. But there doesn't seem much in terms of software support as usual. They did show off the inking features at the Surface unveiling for Surface Pro, so I'm hoping there's a little bit more to that.
Gareth Bale
Member
Wow I love this thing. Is there any way to learn the different swipes though? I'm still not sure how to access some of the menus. I've only just realised you can press the Windows button on the front.
There are only a few:
Left edge - 'Pull' previous apps into the screen
Left edge + pull back - Reveal multitasking menu
Right edge - Bring up charms bar
Top and bottom edges - App menu
Long swipe from top edge to bottom edge - Terminate app
what is haswell?
Gareth Bale
Member
Cheers. Those will help me a ton.
Green Embers
Member
I found that I had to practice, and for me the key is keeping the swipe straight.
So if you swipe straight from the right side, that will open the charms bar.
If you swipe straight from the left, that will multitask (practice that to open a second app in snapped view).
If you swipe from the top or the bottom that will open up the app bar for whatever app you have open at the time (not all apps have/use an app bar).
*Beaten
So if you swipe straight from the right side, that will open the charms bar.
If you swipe straight from the left, that will multitask (practice that to open a second app in snapped view).
If you swipe from the top or the bottom that will open up the app bar for whatever app you have open at the time (not all apps have/use an app bar).
*Beaten
In IE 10, swipe from left to right to go to previous page. You can also go to options and enable moving to the next page with a right to left swipe.
Yeah, I'm really interested too, but not the first version.
I mean, look at the first iPad. Even the second gen runs circles around it.
I've been a Mac man for the majority of my computing life. Having just got a Yoga, here's how things might play out in the next 2-3 years
Get a Nokia 920 -> build a PC -> get a surface.
Would I be one of the few people to go Windows -> Apple -> Windows? Haha
iPad was the first generation product of it's kind. iPhone was the first generation product of it's kind.
Surface Pro is a new take on the existing mobile computer designs with plenty of components that are established standards in the industry.
Just because you guys keep thinking v2 will somehow be way better doesn't mean it will be. Haswell is a big plus, but it's not like no one ever made a mobile computer similar to the Surface Pro before. What is really new are the keyboard covers. Standard components for the x86/x64 architecture won't suddenly make a big jump just because Microsoft decided to make a device of their own.
Surface Pro is a new take on the existing mobile computer designs with plenty of components that are established standards in the industry.
Just because you guys keep thinking v2 will somehow be way better doesn't mean it will be. Haswell is a big plus, but it's not like no one ever made a mobile computer similar to the Surface Pro before. What is really new are the keyboard covers. Standard components for the x86/x64 architecture won't suddenly make a big jump just because Microsoft decided to make a device of their own.
Green Embers
Member
http://content.microsoftstore.com/home.aspx?WT.mc_id=onlinestore_footertray
You'll need to find the closest Microsoft Store near you.
The haswell UVL wont be as big of a leap as some of you guys expect. The main benfit will come from a faster gpu but its still the same process.
You guys see the slides where it shows a 20x increase in connected standby power but you have to remember they are comparing it to the i5 line in 2011 which is sandy bridge not ivy bridge.
The major upgrade comes from shark bay which will bring in the voltage regulation on board the chip instead of on the motherboard .
For me Haswell is going to be a nice upgrade but it seems like the ulv parts will hit in late 2013 but the 18nm verison of haswell will hit in early 2014. So its a waiting gme no one will win.
I figure we get a respin of ivybridge with the 10w figure they talked about recently in surface pro , we get a surface rt 2 in the fall with kal-el and then in winter 2014 we get pro 2 with haswell's successor. I don't think we will see haswell at all and a year is a long time to wait .
Sandisk Ultra 64GB MicroSDXC card for 40 at Radioshack.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13239498
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13239498
Price Drop
Member
Been using Surface for a week and love it.
The build quality is awesome. You can tell the Surface team obsessed over every part of the design from VaporMG to the tapered edges and the built-in kickstand.
Don't think MS is getting the credit they deserve for the Touch Cover. It's genius and if another company had thought of it, it would be praised a hell of a lot more.
Windows RT isn't as bad as I thought. My main concern was that I couldn't use Photoshop or my FTP client. Instead I winded up using Paint for very basic resizing and format changing and FTP I don't necessarily need on a day-to-day basis. The RT was never ment to be a laptop replacement, but with Office built-in, USB, and mini HDMI it is damn close.
Love the Metro interface. Live tiles, super clean interface. Yes, the store could use more apps, but for launch there is a decent number of the most used optimized for Metro. There are some software glitches, but none major. It's speedy all around, but for some reason games don't seem to be optimized and lag more than they should.
Didn't know Xbox Music would be this good. You can stream anything and the ads aren't abundant or intrusive. Also, Xbox Smart Glass is actually useful. Beaming back media between Surface and Xbox is simple enough and works without a hitch.
I wasn't happy when they announced launch prices for this thing. But after using it, at $499or even $599 it is very competitively priced in the tablet market, particularly when you can get actual work done on it.
The build quality is awesome. You can tell the Surface team obsessed over every part of the design from VaporMG to the tapered edges and the built-in kickstand.
Don't think MS is getting the credit they deserve for the Touch Cover. It's genius and if another company had thought of it, it would be praised a hell of a lot more.
Windows RT isn't as bad as I thought. My main concern was that I couldn't use Photoshop or my FTP client. Instead I winded up using Paint for very basic resizing and format changing and FTP I don't necessarily need on a day-to-day basis. The RT was never ment to be a laptop replacement, but with Office built-in, USB, and mini HDMI it is damn close.
Love the Metro interface. Live tiles, super clean interface. Yes, the store could use more apps, but for launch there is a decent number of the most used optimized for Metro. There are some software glitches, but none major. It's speedy all around, but for some reason games don't seem to be optimized and lag more than they should.
Didn't know Xbox Music would be this good. You can stream anything and the ads aren't abundant or intrusive. Also, Xbox Smart Glass is actually useful. Beaming back media between Surface and Xbox is simple enough and works without a hitch.
I wasn't happy when they announced launch prices for this thing. But after using it, at $499or even $599 it is very competitively priced in the tablet market, particularly when you can get actual work done on it.
windows.com has a how-to page.
Gareth Bale
Member
Cool. Is it possible to change the default search in IE from Bing to Google?
its funny cause I got my first tablet in 2003. what 7 years before the ipad was announced. I also had smart phones for years before the iphone. The same argument you make in this post can be used against both I product designs. Heck you can go back to the ipod and say the same thing. There were mp3 players for years before it came out.
It hardly matters , when you take the same basic design and have millions of people using them you get data that you don't get when its in the labs or even with hundreds of people using it. The pro wont hit until feb/march imo and that's enough time for them to take early reback into consideration. V2 of the surface rt/pro will have a year of feedback built into it.
It will be just like the ipad. Some features will be nice in the new ones. Perhaps we will get a higher resolution screen with v2 of both the rt /pro. As a matter of fact I think we will see rt 2 in October with a 1080p screen an kal-el .
The second verison of the rt 2 is the big jump imo. Tegra 3 is quite old at this point but kal-el will be a big jump for them if they even come close to their targets and a higher res screen will be nice.
Haswell as I said in other posts will be nice but wont be a game changer because when haswell launches we will be hearing about intel's 18nm chip which people will want to again wait for .
My plan is surface pro in feb/march 2013 and then in 2015 surface pro 3 with my gf or a friend getting my original surface.
Desktop ie, manage add ons
Xplatformer
Member
Another important question.
Is there a way to set IE so that websites view it as a desktop app, not a mobile app?
If I could watch ESPN3.com on it I would be in heaven.
Is there a way to set IE so that websites view it as a desktop app, not a mobile app?
If I could watch ESPN3.com on it I would be in heaven.
I disagree. Haswell is a tock with massive improvements to power efficiency with likely 10-20% speedup per clock.
2014's Broadwell will be 18nm die shrink that will serve two purposes:
1. Cram more transistors into integrated graphics.
2. Improve yields for Skylake (tock) in 2015.
That's how Intel has been doing stuff the last 4-6 years.
Hopefully they'll surprise me. A discrete CPU with 8 cores at high frequency would be nice for desktops for example.
Haswell cpu wise wont be a big improvement and if its true that the ulv doesn't have embed ram then the gpu side wont increase drasticly either. Your going to get some nice power boosts from better power states.
Broadwell will not only have all of what haswell has but will be on a smaller process.
Either way in terms of surface if ms keeps a yearly upgrade cycle with it , we wont see haswell till 2014. I'd love to see it in the first surface pro bought I doubt it.
Surface + HTC 8X even better
Grover Cleveland
Member
There's a Microsoft Store at Southpoint (in Durham).