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Surface |OT|
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its a 10.6 inch core i5 pc, that battery life is right in line with other PCs of the same size and power.
Xplatformer
Member
Xplatformer
Member
$100 dollars more, with 4 year support and Office? Same build quality?
Not really a no brainer.
The Surface Pro is not destined to critical acclaim across the media. Despite how impressive and complete of a computing product I think the Surface Pro is, it is easy to see where the key criticisms will come from in the tech reviews: The flaws will be based against what does better iPad or MacBook Air.
Each of the following points will be touched upon during reviews:
¬ 4 to 5 hour battery life (vs iPad)
¬ Lack of Windows 8 store apps (vs iPad)
¬ The screen is too small for full Windows Applications (vs MacBook Air)
¬ Office is not included for the price (vs cheap iPad price)
¬ Touch cover not included (vs MacBook Air)
¬ There is a stylus (vs iPad)
¬ The HD4000 graphics is not good enough to play the latest PC games smoothly (vs iPad games)
¬ Too thick and heavy (vs iPad)
¬ Desktop is still windows (vs MacBook Air)
Of those points, I think the real hurdle for buyers will be the battery life, perhaps the weight/thickness. Which is the main reason why I am waiting for a second gen and got an RT version to tide me over.
Each of the following points will be touched upon during reviews:
¬ 4 to 5 hour battery life (vs iPad)
¬ Lack of Windows 8 store apps (vs iPad)
¬ The screen is too small for full Windows Applications (vs MacBook Air)
¬ Office is not included for the price (vs cheap iPad price)
¬ Touch cover not included (vs MacBook Air)
¬ There is a stylus (vs iPad)
¬ The HD4000 graphics is not good enough to play the latest PC games smoothly (vs iPad games)
¬ Too thick and heavy (vs iPad)
¬ Desktop is still windows (vs MacBook Air)
Of those points, I think the real hurdle for buyers will be the battery life, perhaps the weight/thickness. Which is the main reason why I am waiting for a second gen and got an RT version to tide me over.
no one is actually going to care about any review that does that.
From the surface I just need it to give me equal battery life to an ultra book while being thinner and lighter.
Compared to a tablet I need it to have better multitasking in metro or real multitasking in desktop mode. I also need it to last 5-7 hours .
we will see what MS has in store for us . I'm sure they will do some type of press deal and fill in some missing specs (like the exact clock speeds / model of the cpu / gpu clock speeds)
An I5 is already faster than my dual core neo with hd4330 card an will get better battery life while allowing me to leave my touch pad or ipad 2 at home . So its a win for me.
From the surface I just need it to give me equal battery life to an ultra book while being thinner and lighter.
Compared to a tablet I need it to have better multitasking in metro or real multitasking in desktop mode. I also need it to last 5-7 hours .
we will see what MS has in store for us . I'm sure they will do some type of press deal and fill in some missing specs (like the exact clock speeds / model of the cpu / gpu clock speeds)
An I5 is already faster than my dual core neo with hd4330 card an will get better battery life while allowing me to leave my touch pad or ipad 2 at home . So its a win for me.
You forgot
- Far too expensive (vs. Android tablets)
- Too high profit margin (vs. Android tablets)
- No mobile connectivity (vs. iPad)
- Too confusing to use (vs. whatever)
- Uncomfortable screen ratio (vs. iPad)
- Too high dpi (vs. MacBook Air)
- No dedicated GPU (vs. notebooks)
- Can't run OSX (vs. MacBook Air)
- No LAN port (vs. notebooks)
- It has a kickstand (vs. MacBook Air)
- It still needs a keyboard (vs. iPad)
- Why do people still need USB ports (vs. iPad)
Basically Surface Pro is the worst thing ever. And then reviewers will start asking philosophical questions of what it wants to be when it can't be as good as all those other devices and whether people actually need such a device and probably only a small fraction of the population will ever want the device. Oh, and when there's news of bad sales numbers for the Surface Pro, then those same sites will come out with news and editorials saying "I told you so".
- Far too expensive (vs. Android tablets)
- Too high profit margin (vs. Android tablets)
- No mobile connectivity (vs. iPad)
- Too confusing to use (vs. whatever)
- Uncomfortable screen ratio (vs. iPad)
- Too high dpi (vs. MacBook Air)
- No dedicated GPU (vs. notebooks)
- Can't run OSX (vs. MacBook Air)
- No LAN port (vs. notebooks)
- It has a kickstand (vs. MacBook Air)
- It still needs a keyboard (vs. iPad)
- Why do people still need USB ports (vs. iPad)
Basically Surface Pro is the worst thing ever. And then reviewers will start asking philosophical questions of what it wants to be when it can't be as good as all those other devices and whether people actually need such a device and probably only a small fraction of the population will ever want the device. Oh, and when there's news of bad sales numbers for the Surface Pro, then those same sites will come out with news and editorials saying "I told you so".
It probably won't review well. I don't even want to think about the the verge review score (it's not gonna be pretty).
For some device categories review scores make sense. Reviewers can (in theory) adequately compare notebooks, because people have a clear understanding what notebooks are and what they get out of them. So you can take a notebook and go through a checklist (build quality, keyboard, trackpad, performance, battery, ...).
As soon as a device doesn't fit the reviewer's preconceived notions of categories it becomes highly subjective. The Surface doesn't fit in either the established tablet and notebook categories, so it gets very mixed reviews and a lot of reviewers have asked who this product is for. Somewhere out there, there are actually tons of people who'd love the Surface. They just aren't writing the review.
Same issue with phones. Windows Phones are rated using the same one-size-fits-all approach to reviews and tech writers, of course, subtract points on the ecosystem score. The thing is, an incredibly high number of people don't need all those apps and would be very happy with the app selection and functionality that Windows Phone provides. They may never even consider a Windows Phone after seeing the review scores.
For some device categories review scores make sense. Reviewers can (in theory) adequately compare notebooks, because people have a clear understanding what notebooks are and what they get out of them. So you can take a notebook and go through a checklist (build quality, keyboard, trackpad, performance, battery, ...).
As soon as a device doesn't fit the reviewer's preconceived notions of categories it becomes highly subjective. The Surface doesn't fit in either the established tablet and notebook categories, so it gets very mixed reviews and a lot of reviewers have asked who this product is for. Somewhere out there, there are actually tons of people who'd love the Surface. They just aren't writing the review.
Same issue with phones. Windows Phones are rated using the same one-size-fits-all approach to reviews and tech writers, of course, subtract points on the ecosystem score. The thing is, an incredibly high number of people don't need all those apps and would be very happy with the app selection and functionality that Windows Phone provides. They may never even consider a Windows Phone after seeing the review scores.
Should be. Though I haven't had a single issue. My iPad had shit wiifi. Would have to start and restart WiFi all the time.
No issues for me either. Guess I'm lucky.
Yeah it's what I do with the Surface. Could it be something in my wifi parameters ? Or should I wait/return the Surface ?
Regarding the Pro's battery life, I just looked at some reviews of the Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon again. Apart from display size it's similar to the Surface Pro. It has a Core i5 ULV and a 45 Wh battery (close the the Pro's 42 Wh one).
Here's an English review of the Core i7 version: review
The German notebookcheck then retested a German SKU with an i5. Testbericht
They got a maximum runtime of around 9 hours in battery saving mode with lowest brightness (just idling, not doing anything). And a minimum runtime of 1 hour and 26 minutes.
Then they ran the same test as for the US i7 version and arrived at around 6 hours (compared to the previous result of 3 hours and 22 minutes). They weren't sure what caused the discrepancy and suggested the first device may have had an issue.
A lot of Ultrabooks don't do much better than the Surface Pro when it comes to battery life. They have the same Intel ULV processors and 45 to 50 Wh batteries. So I don't know why all the websites reporting on the 4 to 5 hour battery life act so surprised...
Here's an English review of the Core i7 version: review
Under load and with maximum brightness the battery lasts only 1 hour and 23 minutes.
The German notebookcheck then retested a German SKU with an i5. Testbericht
They got a maximum runtime of around 9 hours in battery saving mode with lowest brightness (just idling, not doing anything). And a minimum runtime of 1 hour and 26 minutes.
Then they ran the same test as for the US i7 version and arrived at around 6 hours (compared to the previous result of 3 hours and 22 minutes). They weren't sure what caused the discrepancy and suggested the first device may have had an issue.
A lot of Ultrabooks don't do much better than the Surface Pro when it comes to battery life. They have the same Intel ULV processors and 45 to 50 Wh batteries. So I don't know why all the websites reporting on the 4 to 5 hour battery life act so surprised...
Would be a deal breaker if the battery life ended up being under 4 hours.
Four to five hour battery lives aren't uncommon for moderately used Ultrabooks. Looking at similar devices should give us a pretty good idea about the battery life of the Surface Pro. And the above mentioned X1 Carbon is pretty close in specs.
At the same brightness (e.g. 150 nits like in the above mentioned battery test) the Surface display might even use less power than the 14" X1 Carbon's (smaller, but also higher resolution).
Apart from the screen there shouldn't be huge differences in power draw with very similar processor and battery size, right?.
At the same brightness (e.g. 150 nits like in the above mentioned battery test) the Surface display might even use less power than the 14" X1 Carbon's (smaller, but also higher resolution).
Apart from the screen there shouldn't be huge differences in power draw with very similar processor and battery size, right?.
At doing what though? If its under 4 hours playing real pc games like swtor or batman id be fine. Less than 4 hours web surfing would be bad. 4 hours of video is fine to me
That's fair to ask for.
Lets hope we aren't disapointed. I also hope the storage space isn't cut down by too much after the OS.
No Office on the Surface Pro so will be better on space than the RT. Also, SD cards are cheap.
a secret-boss
Banned
Well I'm going to be using rhe PRO for drawing hopefully I get a descent battery life (6hrs)
Because people don't really know what they're talking about regarding battery life. 
But it wouldn't matter anyway, it'll still be taken as a negative.
Microsoft released an app to change trackpad settings on the Surface.
http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en-US/app/trackpad-settings/5a4e4cdf-4d60-4084-8d9f-61d2e8f4830b
But it wouldn't matter anyway, it'll still be taken as a negative.
Microsoft released an app to change trackpad settings on the Surface.
http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en-US/app/trackpad-settings/5a4e4cdf-4d60-4084-8d9f-61d2e8f4830b
Xplatformer
Member
So...opinions from those that still have their Surface.
Money well spent?
App store improving?
Would you do the purchase over again if given the option?
Money well spent?
App store improving?
Would you do the purchase over again if given the option?
well they are already over 20k apps in the store in a little over a month of existence. That's pretty good I'd say. Other apps like Netflix have been improved a bunch although it still loads slowly.
I'd look at the mac air for battery life.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6063/macbook-air-13inch-mid-2012-review/8
The 11inch air has the same specs with a lower res screen but also a smaller battery 35wh vs 42wh .
the light load test is light web browsing , medium is is heavy browsing load and heavy is web browsing plus a 1MB/s file transfer and looping 1080p video
Because people don't really know what they're talking about regarding battery life.
But it wouldn't matter anyway, it'll still be taken as a negative.
Microsoft released an app to change trackpad settings on the Surface.
http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en-US/app/trackpad-settings/5a4e4cdf-4d60-4084-8d9f-61d2e8f4830b
Hmm...would love to see more apps acting like drivers.
Alx
Member
Money well spent?
Yes. It's still an expensive toy and you could live without it, but I find it very comfortable and convenient.
App store improving?
I wouldn't know, I buy very few apps, and wouldn't use them as much on a tablet than on a phone (the only really useful ones I ever bought on Android were for traveling : train time tables, hotel reservation, restaurant critics etc). The few apps I downloaded on Surface were available day 1 as far as I know (puzzle game, manga reader, cooking app - that I haven't used yet, ...).
Would you do the purchase over again if given the option?
Sure. Actually I'm considering buying another one as a gift for someone who needs a laptop for light office work and net browsing (and has a very small apartment). Still expensive for that use, but well, it's a gift.
why b/g instead of N ? n should give u better bandwidth and distance.
Is this a work around for a problem on the surface ? or just with your router
You think it's the type of router you have? I'm using nothing but N on a dual band router and it works great.
The Pro is going to get killed in the reviews. It's already starting in the previews.Surface Pro: Overpriced tablet, half an Ultrabook, or yet another Tablet PC?
Yikes. What a start.
When you try replace two devices you better be good at everything though. Why would I get something that does two jobs half as well?
I'll wait for more reviews though. If it looks crappy I'll just sell my Retina iPad and get the next gen (hopefully retina) mini.
When you try replace two devices you better be good at everything though. Why would I get something that does two jobs half as well?
I'll wait for more reviews though. If it looks crappy I'll just sell my Retina iPad and get the next gen (hopefully retina) mini.
no one has had hands on time with it.
Yea bad wording on my part. Waiting on more opinions.
Mifi is a better choice regardless
for now it's what MS told me to do to get rid of wifi signal drops, and it works like a charm
Alx
Member
That's not really true, when replacing multiple devices you just need to be "good enough" at what those were doing.
Look at the early (touch) smartphones, they were less efficient than regular phones at making calls and keeping a charged battery, took pictures of lower quality than cameras, weren't as functional as organizers like Palm for professional use... but because you had all of those features in a single device everybody adopted them.
As for the Pro, we'll see if it's good enough for what people want to do with it. But I think that its name is not only for marketing, and that it is indeed targeted at a professional audience. See for example the important focus on the stylus (for signing documents on the go) or the possibility to connect to a Windows domain. Even the lack of Office compared to the RT can be explained by MS assuming that companies bought/will buy wholesale licenses, rather than per device.
People will complain that its specs are not right for gaming or home use, but that may not be the purpose of the device.
KamenSenshi
Junior Member
Going back to my Touchpad definitely makes it feel archaic. Even discounting the differences in terms of fluidity and speed, the swipe gestures is so much more superior in terms of navigation compared to going around the screen pressing on specific icons. I want my Surface RT back already.
Again the thing I find ironic about Surface RT is that it's probably best suited for people who generally know least about these kind of devices.
Again the thing I find ironic about Surface RT is that it's probably best suited for people who generally know least about these kind of devices.
lastflowers
Banned
LOVE my device. It could be a little bit zippier, but it's perfect for the functions I'm going to use it for (TV browsing, movie watching).
I had fun today whipping movies off of my desktop via the network and onto my sd card. That 'ah, I don't need to go search for my sdcard reader' moment of awesomeness.
frontieruk
Member
It is built for watching films, so so good.
It is great for that. Want to watch it on your TV? Buy a $3 miniHDMI to HDMI cable. I was streaming HBOGO content and connected it to a 60" LED TV and nobody realized it wasn't FIOS.
Have not regretted my purchase one bit. It's my most used piece of hardware during non-office hours.
My boss bought one yesterday. So jelly.
D
Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
So it looks like the RT is better than any other Atom tablet for watching films. Or the ATIV Smart PC at least. Still want the full Windows experience so I might be getting an Envy x2.
Why is that?
lybertyboy
Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
Our day will come, soon.