-Pyromaniac-
Member
It's pretty easy to understand why there are a lot of nitpicking outside of the obvious flaw of the lack of ecosystem. I mean it's 600 damn bucks for it with a cover. Plus tax. That shit is EXPENSIVE.
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Surface |OT|
- Thread starter strata8
- Start date
Similar to mentioning other platforms lack USB connectivity to most devices. It's not essential. Not that it's totally not an unfair comparison, but just shows what the reference device the reviewer was basing his review on.
I don't think any review really harped on the price point or even mentioned it.
Downloaded the drivers. Can't can't get the gesture options. Maybe my laptop doesn't support multi-touch gestures?
Edit: just comes up as mouse properties and not touch pad.
I've experienced much better YouTube performance on Surface. 720p videos run very smoothly. There are still new Flash updates getting released, some of the reviewers must've not installed them.
Things like this are what make me wonder how people can review these things. File Picker shows you the USB device, and was one of the first Windows 8 features talked about more than a year ago.
Things like this are what make me wonder how people can review these things. File Picker shows you the USB device, and was one of the first Windows 8 features talked about more than a year ago.
Rand0m TAG
Member
i preordered, but the cnet review got me a bit worried. think i should just ignore it?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
a few mention it. But I'm saying. It's a premium product. Premium products are subject to a lot more nitpicking. And it's justified.
Has there been any info on if the Pro will support USB Ethernet? I'm guessing it would since its running full W8. Just curious since I'm planning on replacing my ultrabook with the surface pro. I go on tons of business trips, and the hotels I stay at don't always have WiFi.
edit: I just read my post on the second page. So let me get this straight, are the switches on type cover mechanical or not? Or is MS simply saying physical keys with rubber dome? Very misleading info from MS if its not...was super excited since I'm so used to typing on my DAS Keyboard...
edit: I just read my post on the second page. So let me get this straight, are the switches on type cover mechanical or not? Or is MS simply saying physical keys with rubber dome? Very misleading info from MS if its not...was super excited since I'm so used to typing on my DAS Keyboard...
That is basically my read on it as well. Sounds like a good, not great, first release of hardware and software. There is alot of room to improve, but there is also a great deal of potential. Great for early adopters, but not quite ready for prime time...
I'm not seeing ridiculous but I guess different strokes.
Agree completely. I thought this thing was going to be in the $250 range!!
Unknown Soldier
Member
The Surface Pro is actually the interesting product here. The schizophrenic Windows 8 hybrid touch-classic UI makes sense on it, since it's a tablet which also happens to be a real Windows PC inside. The Surface with WinRT just seems like a product looking for a market which doesn't exist, quite frankly.
Reviews should nitpick regardless of the price, reviews aren't PR. It's only the conclusion that should talk on the overall package with the price in consideration. So far the reviews haven't said that the pricing is a factor in their verdict of the product.
its windows 8 so probably.
Quoting from a page back because really this. It is probably because all the reviewers have been accustomed to what to expect for limitations from a modern media consumption tablet, but I'm disappointed none of them has really prodded the device into what it can really offer on that front.
Remote desktop? USB connectivity? Monitor support? Network access? C'mon guys.
Steelyuhas
Member
Same.
So, I've surmised from the review that what they used did not have the 170MB update from last week that significant improves performance of the OS, especially with Metro apps, and they did not have the barrage of Metro app updates that have come in the last week and in some cases in the last few days. Those updates are significant to big on some of those built-in apps.
TL;DL What consumers will experience on Friday software wise will be significant better than what the reviewers used.
The reviews are all quite clear what RT is about.
(disclaimer: I am a Microsoft employee)
After testing a Surface for a while, I agree with some of the reviews, but haven't had nearly as bad an experience with the software. The hardware is awesome, the app store is lacking (but should get built out pretty quickly, especially on Friday at the actual launch), and some things are slow like launching applications and a few games.
However, I've become exceedingly impressed with general performance of just using it. Internet Explorer loads pages faster than any other tablet I've ever used, including the iPad 3. And it effortlessly can load many tabs in the background simultaneously without slowing down the main tab you're looking at. Basically my main workflow is loading up a bunch of tabs from Google Reader or message board threads and reading them later. This works incredibly well on Surface.
The thing is, that performance keeps up even if I'm playing a video in the 1/3 view. I had a 720p video playing in the 1/3 view, streaming over the network from my homegroup, and web browsing was still speedy as can be.
Flash performance too has improved dramatically over the last couple weeks. Whether it's an embed on another site or right on YouTube, I never encountered the major hitches shown in some of the video reviews. It isn't always perfectly smooth though, unfortunately.
I think one of my favorite experiences using Surface was over the weekend. I wanted to put a couple TV show episodes on it to watch while I was away for the weekend. I actually hesitated for a minute - "oh no, how do I get videos on this?"
Quickly, of course, I realized the obvious - it's fucking Windows! I don't need to use USB, or SD, or even use strange video formats (though those are options). All I had to do was load up File Explorer in the Desktop, click HomeGroup, and tap and drag. Actually, I just used the "copy to" section of the Ribbon (which is also a great addition making the Desktop slightly better with touch), and I was done.
It was such a stark, welcome departure from what I was used to with my Kindle Fire or iPod Touch.
Touch Cover works well, even on my lap. Though on my lap I need to tap keys harder to get them to register. I haven't tried Type Cover.
The negatives - Mail app is fucking slow. I'm glad they added threaded messaging finally, but it's just so slow on Surface. It even has some strange formatting errors when typing, where things will temporarily screw up visually, or keyboard entry will get unnaturally slow. Apps also do take longer than I'd like to open, though switching is instant once that happens. And 15+ apps can be suspended for instant resume later.
Some of the games perform great, even more complex 3D games, but others are obviously shoddy ports. Jetpack Joyride is one such example. It's so obviously a scaled-up version of the iPhone game instead of iPad, with pixelated graphics, and even then it barely maintains 20-30fps. Really guys? 20-30FPS on what's mostly a simple 2D game that runs at a perfectly smooth 60FPS on much slower hardware? Sheesh.
Luckily, as some sites have pointed out, software can be updated over time. And with the Store, that's easy to do. The hardware is awesome, and it doesn't need to be fixed
And, of course, the app store. It's pretty empty right now. But the thing is, Apple pointed out something notable at their keynote this morning - they find that people use the web browser more than anything else. This definitely holds true with my use of Surface, and not because of the lack of apps. To me it's simply because the browser is awesome, and it fits my usage style. I like using the Google Reader and Twitter web sites, and they work perfectly in IE on the Surface. Hopefully better apps come soon that improve it further, but I basically replicate on Surface what I do on my Desktop PC, and I don't feel limited at all.
Remote desktop client works, but it can't act as a host. There's even a touch version of Remote Desktop in the Store, and it supports RemoteApp so you can actually appear to run full Desktop applications on Surface as long as you're on a corporate network with those apps hosted
USB connectivity is great for the most part. Anything with an in-box generic driver works (some printers, most mobile broadband, mice, keyboards, expandable storage, Xbox 360 controllers, and more)
One other thing that none of the reviews mention that I think could be huge for many families is native, robust multi-user support. It works elegantly and easily, setting up kids accounts, having different apps on each account, restricting access to accounts, etc. Every app downloaded from the store is available to every account on that machine, so you don't need to re-buy apps or games for multiple accounts. Switching is instant on Surface, things don't get bogged down.
After testing a Surface for a while, I agree with some of the reviews, but haven't had nearly as bad an experience with the software. The hardware is awesome, the app store is lacking (but should get built out pretty quickly, especially on Friday at the actual launch), and some things are slow like launching applications and a few games.
However, I've become exceedingly impressed with general performance of just using it. Internet Explorer loads pages faster than any other tablet I've ever used, including the iPad 3. And it effortlessly can load many tabs in the background simultaneously without slowing down the main tab you're looking at. Basically my main workflow is loading up a bunch of tabs from Google Reader or message board threads and reading them later. This works incredibly well on Surface.
The thing is, that performance keeps up even if I'm playing a video in the 1/3 view. I had a 720p video playing in the 1/3 view, streaming over the network from my homegroup, and web browsing was still speedy as can be.
Flash performance too has improved dramatically over the last couple weeks. Whether it's an embed on another site or right on YouTube, I never encountered the major hitches shown in some of the video reviews. It isn't always perfectly smooth though, unfortunately.
I think one of my favorite experiences using Surface was over the weekend. I wanted to put a couple TV show episodes on it to watch while I was away for the weekend. I actually hesitated for a minute - "oh no, how do I get videos on this?"
Quickly, of course, I realized the obvious - it's fucking Windows! I don't need to use USB, or SD, or even use strange video formats (though those are options). All I had to do was load up File Explorer in the Desktop, click HomeGroup, and tap and drag. Actually, I just used the "copy to" section of the Ribbon (which is also a great addition making the Desktop slightly better with touch), and I was done.
It was such a stark, welcome departure from what I was used to with my Kindle Fire or iPod Touch.
Touch Cover works well, even on my lap. Though on my lap I need to tap keys harder to get them to register. I haven't tried Type Cover.
The negatives - Mail app is fucking slow. I'm glad they added threaded messaging finally, but it's just so slow on Surface. It even has some strange formatting errors when typing, where things will temporarily screw up visually, or keyboard entry will get unnaturally slow. Apps also do take longer than I'd like to open, though switching is instant once that happens. And 15+ apps can be suspended for instant resume later.
Some of the games perform great, even more complex 3D games, but others are obviously shoddy ports. Jetpack Joyride is one such example. It's so obviously a scaled-up version of the iPhone game instead of iPad, with pixelated graphics, and even then it barely maintains 20-30fps. Really guys? 20-30FPS on what's mostly a simple 2D game that runs at a perfectly smooth 60FPS on much slower hardware? Sheesh.
Luckily, as some sites have pointed out, software can be updated over time. And with the Store, that's easy to do. The hardware is awesome, and it doesn't need to be fixed
And, of course, the app store. It's pretty empty right now. But the thing is, Apple pointed out something notable at their keynote this morning - they find that people use the web browser more than anything else. This definitely holds true with my use of Surface, and not because of the lack of apps. To me it's simply because the browser is awesome, and it fits my usage style. I like using the Google Reader and Twitter web sites, and they work perfectly in IE on the Surface. Hopefully better apps come soon that improve it further, but I basically replicate on Surface what I do on my Desktop PC, and I don't feel limited at all.
Remote desktop client works, but it can't act as a host. There's even a touch version of Remote Desktop in the Store, and it supports RemoteApp so you can actually appear to run full Desktop applications on Surface as long as you're on a corporate network with those apps hosted
USB connectivity is great for the most part. Anything with an in-box generic driver works (some printers, most mobile broadband, mice, keyboards, expandable storage, Xbox 360 controllers, and more)
One other thing that none of the reviews mention that I think could be huge for many families is native, robust multi-user support. It works elegantly and easily, setting up kids accounts, having different apps on each account, restricting access to accounts, etc. Every app downloaded from the store is available to every account on that machine, so you don't need to re-buy apps or games for multiple accounts. Switching is instant on Surface, things don't get bogged down.
(disclaimer: I am a Microsoft employee)
After testing a Surface for a while, I agree with some of the reviews, but haven't had nearly as bad an experience with the software. The hardware is awesome, the app store is lacking (but should get built out pretty quickly, especially on Friday at the actual launch), and some things are slow like launching applications and a few games.
However, I've become exceedingly impressed with general performance of just using it. Internet Explorer loads pages faster than any other tablet I've ever used, including the iPad 3. And it effortlessly can load many tabs in the background simultaneously without slowing down the main tab you're looking at. Basically my main workflow is loading up a bunch of tabs from Google Reader or message board threads and reading them later. This works incredibly well on Surface.
The thing is, that performance keeps up even if I'm playing a video in the 1/3 view. I had a 720p video playing in the 1/3 view, streaming over the network from my homegroup, and web browsing was still speedy as can be.
Flash performance too has improved dramatically over the last couple weeks. Whether it's an embed on another site or right on YouTube, I never encountered the major hitches shown in some of the video reviews. It isn't always perfectly smooth though, unfortunately.
I think one of my favorite experiences using Surface was over the weekend. I wanted to put a couple TV show episodes on it to watch while I was away for the weekend. I actually hesitated for a minute - "oh no, how do I get videos on this?"
Quickly, of course, I realized the obvious - it's fucking Windows! I don't need to use USB, or SD, or even use strange video formats (though those are options). All I had to do was load up File Explorer in the Desktop, click HomeGroup, and tap and drag. Actually, I just used the "copy to" section of the Ribbon (which is also a great addition making the Desktop slightly better with touch), and I was done.
It was such a stark, welcome departure from what I was used to with my Kindle Fire or iPod Touch.
Touch Cover works well, even on my lap. Though on my lap I need to tap keys harder to get them to register. I haven't tried Type Cover.
The negatives - Mail app is fucking slow. I'm glad they added threaded messaging finally, but it's just so slow on Surface. It even has some strange formatting errors when typing, where things will temporarily screw up visually, or keyboard entry will get unnaturally slow. Apps also do take longer than I'd like to open, though switching is instant once that happens. And 15+ apps can be suspended for instant resume later.
Some of the games perform great, even more complex 3D games, but others are obviously shoddy ports. Jetpack Joyride is one such example. It's so obviously a scaled-up version of the iPhone game instead of iPad, with pixelated graphics, and even then it barely maintains 20-30fps. Really guys? 20-30FPS on what's mostly a simple 2D game that runs at a perfectly smooth 60FPS on much slower hardware? Sheesh.
Luckily, as some sites have pointed out, software can be updated over time. And with the Store, that's easy to do. The hardware is awesome, and it doesn't need to be fixed
And, of course, the app store. It's pretty empty right now. But the thing is, Apple pointed out something notable at their keynote this morning - they find that people use the web browser more than anything else. This definitely holds true with my use of Surface, and not because of the lack of apps. To me it's simply because the browser is awesome, and it fits my usage style. I like using the Google Reader and Twitter web sites, and they work perfectly in IE on the Surface. Hopefully better apps come soon that improve it further, but I basically replicate on Surface what I do on my Desktop PC, and I don't feel limited at all.
dumb question but is this the RT or PRO?
Rand0m TAG
Member
please say rt
If this is an iPad competitor it doesn't seem expensive at all.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
It is pretty expensive though. I mean you basically need a cover, that's one of the major selling points. So you're looking at 599 minimum realistically. Yes the 32gb ipad is just as expensive but you know what, it has a MUCH smaller OS footprint and a REALLY REALLY high-res screen.
RT surface is definitely VERY expensive. 499 for the tablet plus the cover would have been a very reasonable price point.
I agree. Office is kinda useless without the keyboard too.
Ooooo nice. should be fun to see what applications come. And I still don't believe the lap use, someone needs to make a video of this.
Minimum pricing for apps is $1.49.
How much is Fruit Ninja on Windows Store?
On the AU store, fruity ninja is 4.99, ipad hd version is 2.99.
Ok, 4.99 is too much. 2.99 would be the right price for Fruit Ninja.
Basically sounds like WP7. A lot of potential.
They need to get the software out there. That killed the phone for me. 2 years later and no TV Guide app?
They need to get the software out there. That killed the phone for me. 2 years later and no TV Guide app?
Sounds like WP7 here as well.
Xplatformer
Member
(disclaimer: I am a Microsoft employee)
After testing a Surface for a while, I agree with some of the reviews, but haven't had nearly as bad an experience with the software. The hardware is awesome, the app store is lacking (but should get built out pretty quickly, especially on Friday at the actual launch), and some things are slow like launching applications and a few games.
However, I've become exceedingly impressed with general performance of just using it. Internet Explorer loads pages faster than any other tablet I've ever used, including the iPad 3. And it effortlessly can load many tabs in the background simultaneously without slowing down the main tab you're looking at. Basically my main workflow is loading up a bunch of tabs from Google Reader or message board threads and reading them later. This works incredibly well on Surface.
The thing is, that performance keeps up even if I'm playing a video in the 1/3 view. I had a 720p video playing in the 1/3 view, streaming over the network from my homegroup, and web browsing was still speedy as can be.
Flash performance too has improved dramatically over the last couple weeks. Whether it's an embed on another site or right on YouTube, I never encountered the major hitches shown in some of the video reviews. It isn't always perfectly smooth though, unfortunately.
I think one of my favorite experiences using Surface was over the weekend. I wanted to put a couple TV show episodes on it to watch while I was away for the weekend. I actually hesitated for a minute - "oh no, how do I get videos on this?"
Quickly, of course, I realized the obvious - it's fucking Windows! I don't need to use USB, or SD, or even use strange video formats (though those are options). All I had to do was load up File Explorer in the Desktop, click HomeGroup, and tap and drag. Actually, I just used the "copy to" section of the Ribbon (which is also a great addition making the Desktop slightly better with touch), and I was done.
It was such a stark, welcome departure from what I was used to with my Kindle Fire or iPod Touch.
Touch Cover works well, even on my lap. Though on my lap I need to tap keys harder to get them to register. I haven't tried Type Cover.
The negatives - Mail app is fucking slow. I'm glad they added threaded messaging finally, but it's just so slow on Surface. It even has some strange formatting errors when typing, where things will temporarily screw up visually, or keyboard entry will get unnaturally slow. Apps also do take longer than I'd like to open, though switching is instant once that happens. And 15+ apps can be suspended for instant resume later.
Some of the games perform great, even more complex 3D games, but others are obviously shoddy ports. Jetpack Joyride is one such example. It's so obviously a scaled-up version of the iPhone game instead of iPad, with pixelated graphics, and even then it barely maintains 20-30fps. Really guys? 20-30FPS on what's mostly a simple 2D game that runs at a perfectly smooth 60FPS on much slower hardware? Sheesh.
Luckily, as some sites have pointed out, software can be updated over time. And with the Store, that's easy to do. The hardware is awesome, and it doesn't need to be fixed
And, of course, the app store. It's pretty empty right now. But the thing is, Apple pointed out something notable at their keynote this morning - they find that people use the web browser more than anything else. This definitely holds true with my use of Surface, and not because of the lack of apps. To me it's simply because the browser is awesome, and it fits my usage style. I like using the Google Reader and Twitter web sites, and they work perfectly in IE on the Surface. Hopefully better apps come soon that improve it further, but I basically replicate on Surface what I do on my Desktop PC, and I don't feel limited at all.
Remote desktop client works, but it can't act as a host. There's even a touch version of Remote Desktop in the Store, and it supports RemoteApp so you can actually appear to run full Desktop applications on Surface as long as you're on a corporate network with those apps hosted
USB connectivity is great for the most part. Anything with an in-box generic driver works (some printers, most mobile broadband, mice, keyboards, expandable storage, Xbox 360 controllers, and more)
One other thing that none of the reviews mention that I think could be huge for many families is native, robust multi-user support. It works elegantly and easily, setting up kids accounts, having different apps on each account, restricting access to accounts, etc. Every app downloaded from the store is available to every account on that machine, so you don't need to re-buy apps or games for multiple accounts. Switching is instant on Surface, things don't get bogged down.
Thanks for the review.
I'm hoping that by the time I make my purchase (Christmas present to myself) there will have been at least a few RT system updates and the app selection will finally be acceptable.
I'm not even talking iOS acceptable. I'm talking Kindle Fire level of apps acceptable.
foodtaster
Banned
unlike windows phone 7, windows 8 will have a ridiculous amount of (somewhat buggy) apps out within a month after it comes out. i'm betting 10k within the first few weeks.
iOS is at something like 400+ million since 2007. Vista was considered a failure, it sold something like 200 million. Windows 8 will sell, which means support for the new Windows UI which means support for Windows RT. I wouldn't worry about app support.
there will probably be about 10k at launch, at least worldwide.
Re-reading what I wrote, I realize I basically said that Surface is an awesome device for browsing the web. heh. Because no matter what tablet/device I have, that's basically all I do with it - whether Kindle Fire, iPad, or iPod Touch. Outside of a few games here and there.
Which works great for me! The extra productivity it allows is a nice bonus.
Gotta get my hands on a Type Cover though...
Which works great for me! The extra productivity it allows is a nice bonus.
Gotta get my hands on a Type Cover though...
yeah most of the stuff I will do is browse the web, but I still don't want to give up that support for desktop applications, so I am not willing to get a Windows RT machine. I want a "no compromise" tablet as Microsoft would say.
Woot! Thanks man.
Have you played around with other browsers? If Surface/Win 8 takes off IE will draw crackers and I'd like to know how the alternatives are.
Oh I realize that by virtue of this being an extension of true Windows OS that software is likely less of an issue compared to their phone.
Still. 100,000+ apps for WP7 and not one could tell me US TV listings.
Still irritates me and I don't even use that phone anymore.
Get a random person on the street, chances are that he/she doesn't know the difference.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
700 dollars after taxes lol. Next level ridiculous.
Xplatformer
Member
So...people have compared the apps (lack of) but I don't think people are spending enough time reviewing the UI, and how it feels using that compared to an iPad, a Kindle Fire HD or a Nex7.
Some have referenced the sluggish feel of some apps opening, but I've also heard that the multitasking with the Surface is unmatched by other OSes.
Sounds like the device is something to pick up in 2 months, but not at release. I'm good with that.
Some have referenced the sluggish feel of some apps opening, but I've also heard that the multitasking with the Surface is unmatched by other OSes.
Sounds like the device is something to pick up in 2 months, but not at release. I'm good with that.
yeah but best buy employees will inform them! lol. I would hate to be someone working at a help desk.
Not that many people know about windows 8 now either. Odd point to make.
Its good to hear home group works, that would save a ton of work.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Some of them certainly did.
They stated the facts, but which of them commented on the price?
Yeah MS can fuckoff if the game prices are higher again.
Although, I guess it isn't as bad as WP, because you can play these apps on your desktop or tablet.