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Surface |OT|
- Thread starter strata8
- Start date
frigging Adobe
Best Buy was not ready to sell these, when I bought mine yesterday I had the same problem many of the others mentioned. I was there for over an hour while they tried to figure out what to do. This was after they tried to give it to me for free!
Apparently it was listed ready for pick up in the system, I had to insist that I hadn't paid for it yet. It hadn't even been entered into their inventory, I could have walked out of there with it and never heard a peep from Best Buy lol
Apparently it was listed ready for pick up in the system, I had to insist that I hadn't paid for it yet. It hadn't even been entered into their inventory, I could have walked out of there with it and never heard a peep from Best Buy lol
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
god what a mess. glad you paid for it. not many people wouldve. i won't speak for my self, since i am no saint.
a secret-boss
Banned
there's couple people contacted Wacom from other forums
zephervack
Member
This is a lot to ask but has anyone tried light to medium gaming on it at 720p? I know this only has the Intel gpu but im still wondering how it holds up.
Portal, Sequence, Civ V, Machinarium, and Auditorium were all good.
ambientmystic
Member
But can it run Crysis?
Damon Bennet
Member
If I'm not able to order a Pro from the states, would someone here be willing to grab a model for me (even 64GB) and send it to me in europe? I'd send the money via paypal or something!
(at this point this is only theoretical, since I am sure, I'll find a store that ships internationally, but it'd be great to have a backup plan)
(at this point this is only theoretical, since I am sure, I'll find a store that ships internationally, but it'd be great to have a backup plan)
Is Ebay not an option?
Damon Bennet
Member
not at this point. surface pro 64GB starts at over $1000 plus shipping at the moment. maybe I'll just wait a little.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
What about crysis warhead and dota 2?
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I was SO close to biting on a Surface Pro. I'm glad I opted to wait, though. I decided that I was more interested in going with a gaming laptop versus an ultrabook/tablet combo. Still interested to see how the supply situation pans out. And who knows - when we're ready to upgrade our iPad, we may investigate the Pro anyways.
a secret-boss
Banned
its a wacom driver. there's no updated wacom driver that's compatible with surface.
just gotta wait until the driver gets updated.
Got borderlands 2 running well enough, lowest settings.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Met some work peeps at Jack Stack BBQ for dinner this evening, and asked my buddy to bring his new Surface Pro so I could mess with it more in-depth.
My first impressions from a BBY store-demo: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47523375&postcount=4119
Anyway, played it with a little more, and I'll be a bit more concise this time.
Pros:
-Screen is gorgeous. 1080p on 10" is magical for a "real" computer. Looks fantastic.
-Weight is great for a laptop; as is thickness and heat
-Sub-8sec boot-up is fantastic
-everything is plenty responsive; apps load quickly
-Team Fortress 2, native res, medium/low settings can easily stay above 30fps
EDIT: Oh yeah, Civ 5 Touch was freaking awesome. It's like an Apple Appstore game... but actually a real, gamer's game.
Cons:
-Way too heavy and thick to be even considered a mild tablet competitor
-Battery life is average for a laptop; a good step down from a Macbook; abysmal for a tablet
-The kickstand is awesome at a desk; perfect, really. But it really is poor if you type on your lap
-Touch in most apps is average at best, poor most often. Having to hit the scroll bar in Steam, for example, rather than just "swipe" through your list of games is just stupid.
Takeaway? Same as before, actually: A near perfect laptop - would be the best Windows 8 laptop on the market if the kickstand worked in more positions and you could somehow use the thing on your lap. But as a tablet, it's not even in the same league as the iPad or Nexus 7.
My first impressions from a BBY store-demo: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47523375&postcount=4119
Anyway, played it with a little more, and I'll be a bit more concise this time.
Pros:
-Screen is gorgeous. 1080p on 10" is magical for a "real" computer. Looks fantastic.
-Weight is great for a laptop; as is thickness and heat
-Sub-8sec boot-up is fantastic
-everything is plenty responsive; apps load quickly
-Team Fortress 2, native res, medium/low settings can easily stay above 30fps
EDIT: Oh yeah, Civ 5 Touch was freaking awesome. It's like an Apple Appstore game... but actually a real, gamer's game.
Cons:
-Way too heavy and thick to be even considered a mild tablet competitor
-Battery life is average for a laptop; a good step down from a Macbook; abysmal for a tablet
-The kickstand is awesome at a desk; perfect, really. But it really is poor if you type on your lap
-Touch in most apps is average at best, poor most often. Having to hit the scroll bar in Steam, for example, rather than just "swipe" through your list of games is just stupid.
Takeaway? Same as before, actually: A near perfect laptop - would be the best Windows 8 laptop on the market if the kickstand worked in more positions and you could somehow use the thing on your lap. But as a tablet, it's not even in the same league as the iPad or Nexus 7.
brotkasten
Member
Yes, it's surprising that desktop applications that don't support touch input don't work well with touch.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
No, it's not surprising. But it is frustrating. And for a device that is so touch-focused, it's just rather jarring when things like that don't work. It's not a disaster by any means, but it's unquestionably a "con."
a secret-boss
Banned
I finally heard the fan when I played Book of Unwritten Tales.
Point and click game playable with touch control.
Point and click game playable with touch control.
Pro tip , the included stylus works amazing with legacy programs. But i'm sure you knew that already
crisdecuba
Member
When you say that touch in most apps is average a best, are you talking about legacy apps (i.e. regular windows apps) or metro apps (or whatever they're supposed to be called).
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Legacy apps. Everything in Metro seemed to work well enough - I have no complaints at all.
I know the argument is that you can't expect legacy apps to be touch enabled - and I agree. But it'd be nice if there were more out there that were embracing touch. Or, at the least, somehow MS could have made it so a "swipe" on your Steam library emulated a scroll wheel. Not ideal... but better than having to touch that tiny little scroll bar. And yeah, the stylus helps - I give them props for that. But while the stylus provides lots and lots of benefits in some applications, I definitely think it's a huge step down in intuitiveness if you need it for navigation.
It kind of comes back to my original argument. The Surface Pro is a fabulous device - I like it, and think it has a lot going for it. In it's current form, I think it falls short of fusing a laptop and tablet seamlessly. But I do believe MS is very, very close to doing it - closer than anyone else, for sure. And for a piece of hardware that has undoubtedly received so much effort in creating that near perfect synergy, it's a shame the same can't be said for the OS with Metro and Legacy apps.
How is it a step down in intuitiveness ? Your using a pen as a replacement for your finger. They both do the same thing which is pointing at what you want to manipulate.
Its actually very simple.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
For navigation, a finger works perfectly on an iPad. Perfectly.
Don't get me wrong - a stylus has huge benefits when writing notes or editing photos or drawing or whatever else. But for navigation, adding a tool between yourself and the device that is completely unnecessary on a competitor's device, to me is unintuitive.
brotkasten
Member
Microsoft implemented touch events for the desktop with Windows 7. You can start desktop IE and scroll with your finger input, same with MetroTwit (iirc). The "blame" is on Valve for not supporting it (and why would they, with such a tiny market share).
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
That's fair. Sorry, I don't mean to imply that it's MS's "fault." But if I'm going to gauge their device, I have to take into consideration how applications run. If the next 10 AAA games are optimized better for Nvidia, I'm going to recommend a GTX card even if it's not AMD's fault. Or vice versa.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Yeah, that's freaking awesome. Get a Bluetooth mouse and you really have an extremely competent LAN party device for games like CS, TF2, Quake, etc. Very neat how far things have come.
That guy was playing an FPS with the friggin' touch cover? That's ridic.
An ipad is extremely limited compared to what you can do in the legacy desktop so of course a finger will work fine.
But in more complex situations it wont work very well. The surface is able to give you both options and you can choose what is best for what you want to do.
Now if you could run OSX programs on an ipad then you can talk about how well or poorly the surface does compared to the ipad in legacy programs. Until then its a non starter.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I guess we just are coming to the argument from two different angles. I agree, the iPad is more limited but does everything extremely well. The Surface Pro offers much more functionality, but doesn't work as well with everything. I fault the device for not being as accomplished in all its tasks; where you praise it for taking on a larger workload. Fair enough; we'll have to agree to disagree.
So your saying the surface pro does not work well ? From what you've wrote you just claim it doesn't work well in the desktop with your finger.... while ms provides you with a secondary (and if you get a cover a third) way to interact that works perfectly well.
It does on my RT. Two finger swipes should scroll pages.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
You seem extremely defensive, and I'm not sure why. I've actually praised the device several times in this thread. It's a quality product, for sure. I'm sorry if I'm reading into it too much.
To answer your question - I'll start by saying I agree that having a desktop is an additional functionality not present on the iPad. That said, I would argue that no, the Surface Pro does not work well with legacy apps. Working "well" would mean they would work without the necessity of a special tool - in this case, the stylus. I would be able to, as I previously mentioned, "flick" my finger and scroll through my Steam Library.
It's just two different ways to tackle a device. With the iPad, it's pretty obvious that Apple's intent is for your own fingers to be the only input method you need. But with the Surface, you have a stylus, a keyboard, a trackpad, a mouse and whatnot thrown on you, too. Which is fine - as I see the product as a laptop. And most people in this thread agree - it has the specs of a laptop, the weight and battery life of a laptop, and the OS of a laptop. But as a tablet, it falters. Significantly. And a big reason for that, in my opinion, is because of the necessity for a variety of input methods.
Ah, it just takes a very long sweep for a very little scrolling. Let me try to modify this speed somewhere...
Also, it's reversed! How can I change this...?
"what map is that?"
:lol:
There's a featured app in the Store if you're using a Surface. It'll let you reverse the scrolling direction!
I'm just trying to figure out what your actually saying since it doesn't seem to make sense at all
And here it is. This makes no sense . The ipad can't use legacy apps. It can't run any osx or windows programs correct ? So then why compare it to the ipad ? If the ipad can't even do it then right now the best implementation is the surfaces and yes the surface is a tool and it works extremely well doing things the ipad can't. A finger can't replicate a mouse. It isn't accurate enough.
As for steam it works perfectly fine while flicking your finger.
http://store.steampowered.com/bigpicture
Its pretty obvious that Apple's intent is for you to have limited functionality and to disable your ability to use the proper tool for each situation. A finger is not the ideal mode of input all the time. If it was they wouldn't create ipad keyboard cases and the like.
If you want to use the surface pro as a tablet it works amazingly well. Everything I've done on my ipad 2 and my touch pad and my transformer is done just as well on the surface pro.
Yes its heavier but then again it does things none of those do. It would be like complaining that the ipad is heavier than a nook simple touch.
bigtroyjon
Member
So you think the Surface would be a better product if MS was somehow able to only allow programs that support touch?
Alright I just found a solution to 1 of my hated problems.
I had to run Chrome in Metro for the font "crispness" but my productivity goes down switching from Metro Chrome to my IDE. Turns out, right click on Chrome shortcut, Properties->Compatibility-> Check "Disable display scaling on high DPI settings"
Viola worked like a charm, did the same for my iTunes and now it's finally "retina" hehehe
I had to run Chrome in Metro for the font "crispness" but my productivity goes down switching from Metro Chrome to my IDE. Turns out, right click on Chrome shortcut, Properties->Compatibility-> Check "Disable display scaling on high DPI settings"
Viola worked like a charm, did the same for my iTunes and now it's finally "retina" hehehe
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
No, I'm arguing the Surface is not an ideal tablet. Just like I would argue that the iPad is not an ideal eBook reader. Just because something can do more, doesn't mean it does the simpler things better. The Surface is a great laptop; but it isn't perfect as a tablet.