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[EriCKY]

i still haven't received a shipping notification :x

reviews made me a little nervous.

i don't understand why microsoft is using 'old' parts for their flagship products

haswell is coming out early 2013 and i've read there are significant improvements over ivy bridge.

it's just confusing, yet i still am pretty excited for my RT.

 

[Totakeke]

i still haven't received a shipping notification :x

reviews made me a little nervous.

i don't understand why microsoft is using 'old' parts for their flagship products

haswell is coming out early 2013 and i've read there are significant improvements over ivy bridge.

it's just confusing, yet i still am pretty excited for my RT.

Haswell is not coming out early 2013.

 

[stktt]

i still haven't received a shipping notification :x

reviews made me a little nervous.

i don't understand why microsoft is using 'old' parts for their flagship products

haswell is coming out early 2013 and i've read there are significant improvements over ivy bridge.

it's just confusing, yet i still am pretty excited for my RT.

When did you order yours?

 

[Haklong]

Seriously, when is Microsoft going to start shipping? Are they planning on doing next day for everyone?

 

[EriCKY]

When did you order yours?

maybe a day or two after preorders started.
it was after the 32gb without smartcover sold out but when 32gb with smartcover was still "arrives by 10/26"

 

[Robobandit]

Not having Outlook is still a huge bummer especially with the email app not sounding that hot. Wonder what was their decision point into that.

The version of Office 2013 that comes on the surface RT is Home and Student. That version of office doesn't include Outlook and you're not supposed to use it for commercial productivity.

For the average person, the included mail app will do more than enough and even has exchange support for people that need it.

 

[Enco]

I'm happy with my iPad but in the future if I considered switching I would need to see my most used apps on the windows app store.

Flipboard, Readability, Dropbox and Kindle for example. Without them I wouldn't make the switch.

Office is the biggest selling point because then I could ditch my laptop and work/play with one device on the go.

 

[Dunlop]

wait, they just finished revamping their Hotmail/Outlook system and it is not used with the Surface?

 

[BiggNife]

Definitely intrigued by the Surface Pro. The RT version isn't doing anything for me, though. Not really sure why it would be worth getting over an iPad.

 

[LCfiner]

I am able to run 3D games on my 1.5 year old Samsung 700T so I am a little dubious of any claims of performance problems. Of course, if perf is a primary desire, why not just get an Ultra book, plug in a 360 Controller for Windows, and go to town on Steam...

Tablets are for laying on your sofa and watching Netflix or some form of casual entertainment, Surface is for something in the middle like writing quick e-mails or doing light productivity tasks on top of entertainment.

I can write quick (and some long) emails on an iPad just fine. I've also used iWork apps and other office compatible editors to work on documents. Those types of light productivity scenarios are already possible. People have been doing this with iPads for a couple years now.

The big difference is that using those apps on the iPad does not require me to use a keyboard, trackpad, find a flat desk surface for them and use an office suite designed for a mouse and keyboard. The fact that the productivity apps have been re-written for touch on the iPad is a positive. The experience is more natural for the device.

When MS rewrites office RT to be completely Metro styled and not reliant on the desktop environment and mouse, then they'll be on equal footing.

 

[Robobandit]

wait, they just finished revamping their Hotmail/Outlook system and it is not used with the Surface?

That's webmail, dude.. you could use that on the surface if you wanted.

The windows 8 mail app is similar in style to outlook.com anyway.

He was referring to the Outlook desktop application and was wondering why they didn't make one for Office 2013 RT to be included on the surface.

 

[TwIsTeD]

I just searched using my reference # on FedEx.com ....its coming from China.

I thought Apple were the only ones to have such magical shipping....it is expected on Friday for me.

 

[brotkasten]

wait, they just finished revamping their Hotmail/Outlook system and it is not used with the Surface?

Ah, the confusion. I love it.

 

[KoukiFC]

Anyone picking it up at their local MS Store Friday?

I was told the store opens at their regular hour. (10am)

 

[hwalker84]

Ah, the confusion. I love it.

Yep. Kinda funny at this point.

 

[jossueinacoma]

Anyone picking it up at their local MS Store Friday?

I was told the store opens at their regular hour. (10am)

yup, i'll be there.

 

[KoukiFC]

yup, i'll be there.

Did you get a preorder coupon?

I went to the MS Store last night, and one rep told me that they weren't giving out these coupons.

 

[venne]

When MS rewrites office RT to be completely Metro styled and not reliant on the desktop environment and mouse, then they'll be on equal footing.

When the iPad can have two apps on screen at once, it will be on equal footing with the Surface as a productivity device.

 

[hwalker84]

Anyone picking it up at their local MS Store Friday?

I was told the store opens at their regular hour. (10am)

I plan on it. Unfortunately the only store in Pittsburgh is on the total opposite side of the city for me and I don't get off till 5pm with the traffic I'm going to hit it wont be till 6:30 that I get there. The store isn't opening until the 26th so I can't even reserve one. Hopefully I'll be able to call and have them hold one for me.

 

[jossueinacoma]

Did you get a preorder coupon?

I went to the MS Store last night, and one rep told me that they weren't giving out these coupons.

yea i got one.

 

[KoukiFC]

I can write quick (and some long) emails on an iPad just fine. I've also used iWork apps and other office compatible editors to work on documents. Those types of light productivity scenarios are already possible. People have been doing this with iPads for a couple years now.

The big difference is that using those apps on the iPad does not require me to use a keyboard, trackpad, find a flat desk surface for them and use an office suite designed for a mouse and keyboard. The fact that the productivity apps have been re-written for touch on the iPad is a positive. The experience is more natural for the device.

When MS rewrites office RT to be completely Metro styled and not reliant on the desktop environment and mouse, then they'll be on equal footing.

Personally I think I will like the desktop mode better for editing documents.
A Metro styled Office would have to be simplified to make it more touch friendly. I would rather get the full office desktop version, it's a lot more powerful.

 

[plagiarize]

When the iPad can have two apps on screen at once, it will be on equal footing with the Surface as a productivity device.

even then it won't be as good at juggling apps. you can have multiple things running on the desktop at once AND a docked metro app.

 

[LCfiner]

When the iPad can have two apps on screen at once, it will be on equal footing with the Surface as a productivity device.

Are there any office apps available for Windows 8 metro that support this side by side behaviour? every demo I've seen has been a twitter or weather app plus a browser.

i mean, I know you can go into the desktop and have Word plus a browser... but that goes back to my initial comment about how these settings require the touch cover trackpad. so it limits the way you can use the device to "get stuff done".

 

[venne]

Are there any office apps available for Windows 8 metro that support this side by side behaviour? every demo I've seen has been a twitter or weather app plus a browser.

i mean, I know you can go into the desktop and have Word plus a browser... but that goes back to my initial comment about how these settings require the touch cover trackpad. so it limits the way you can use the device to "get stuff done".

You can have the desktop and a metro app snapped together. Whatever you're running on the desktop can run with whatever metro app you choose (messenger, Skype, music player, whatever).

Plug in a mouse if you don't want to use your fingers or the touchpad.

How you find additional functionality limiting is truly baffling.

 

[KoukiFC]

When the iPad can have two apps on screen at once, it will be on equal footing with the Surface as a productivity device.

This will probably be my favorite feature of Windows 8. The 1/3 of the screen is perfect for apps like chat & twitter.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

The only thing I hate about the windows 8 multitasking is that you can't adjust the sizes specific amounts of each app running. Unless you can and I missed it or it changed.

 

[Flying Toaster]

The only thing I hate about the windows 8 multitasking is that you can't adjust the sizes specific amounts of each app running. Unless you can and I missed it or it changed.

I think your right, I don't think you can from what I have read so far.

 

[Betta Lines]

What is the deal with RT having a desktop mode at all? It seems to be able to run a special version of Office and nothing else? And if so, why isn't Office just an app for the Metro interface? Is there something you can do on the desktop mode that I'm missing?

 

[plagiarize]

The only thing I hate about the windows 8 multitasking is that you can't adjust the sizes specific amounts of each app running. Unless you can and I missed it or it changed.

docked apps are a set size, yes. i thought i'd hate this and i don't hate it at all actually.

What is the deal with RT having a desktop mode at all? It seems to be able to run a special version of Office and nothing else? And if so, why isn't Office just an app for the Metro interface? Is there something you can do on the desktop mode that I'm missing?

just about everything you can do on a default windows install that hasn't had extra apps installed. registry access, full file browsing (including poking around in the windows directory), writing batch files, all sorts. i believe there's a desktop version of IE also, along with the Office applications.

 

[LCfiner]

You can have the desktop and a metro app snapped together. Whatever you're running on the desktop can run with whatever metro app you choose (messenger, Skype, music player, whatever).

Plug in a mouse if you don't want to use your fingers or the touchpad.

How you find additional functionality limiting is truly baffling.

nope. I never said that. I said that having to use the desktop environment (and the keyboard, trackpad, mouse UI that this requires) to use Office limits the types of locations where you can actually use the suite and that limits the flexibility of the device.

I think that is a drawback that makes it less usable than ipad in a lot of different scenarios.

I think it's a fair criticism considering that there's not much use for the desktop in Win RT aside from having Office run on it. Would we all be surprised if MS releases a Metro office and strips the desktop from future versions of Windows RT? I think that would make a better product.

 

[hwalker84]

What is the deal with RT having a desktop mode at all? It seems to be able to run a special version of Office and nothing else? And if so, why isn't Office just an app for the Metro interface? Is there something you can do on the desktop mode that I'm missing?

Because just making Office run on ARM is an massive undertaking. Eventually we all expect the desktop mode to go the way of the dodo in future iterations.

 

[venne]

The only thing I hate about the windows 8 multitasking is that you can't adjust the sizes specific amounts of each app running. Unless you can and I missed it or it changed.

You're taking strictly metro, I assume.

I think it makes sense. Developer's can program for the a couple fixed states instead of infinitely variable states and end users don't have to fuss around with minutia.

I haven't seen a better implementation on a tablet. Samsung can do side by side, but only certain applications will work. Pop up play seems like another weak solution.

 

[plagiarize]

nope. I never said that. I said that having to use the desktop environment (and the keyboard, trackpad, mouse UI that this requires) to use Office limits the types of locations where you can actually use the suite and that limits the flexibility of the device.

I think that is a drawback that makes it less usable than ipad in a lot of different scenarios.

I think it's a fair criticism considering that there's not much use for the desktop in Win RT aside from having Office run on it. Would we all be surprised if MS releases a Metro office and strips the desktop from future versions of Windows RT? I think that would make a better product.

yeah, see, you kind of *are* saying that when you say 'it would be better without the desktop'. i'm sure we'll see touch friendly versions of office apps (there's one already infact, in OneNote MX), but i wouldn't want to see the desktop disappear even when that happens. at that point for anyone the desktop confuses... well they can just unpin it from the start screen and pretend like it isn't there.

 

[stktt]

What is the deal with RT having a desktop mode at all? It seems to be able to run a special version of Office and nothing else? And if so, why isn't Office just an app for the Metro interface? Is there something you can do on the desktop mode that I'm missing?

Anything you can do with a traditional version of Windows, minus the third party app selection. For some people, that alone is a nice feature, and it's not as if you're forced to use the desktop. I would imagine that there simply wasn't enough time to get something as complex as Office working well as a Metro/Modern/Windows 8 style/Microsoft design style app.

 

[LukasTaves]

nope. I never said that. I said that having to use the desktop environment (and the keyboard, trackpad, mouse UI that this requires) to use Office limits the types of locations where you can actually use the suite and that limits the flexibility of the device.

I think that is a drawback that makes it less usable than ipad in a lot of different scenarios.

I think it's a fair criticism considering that there's not much use for the desktop in Win RT aside from having Office run on it. Would we all be surprised if MS releases a Metro office and strips the desktop from future versions of Windows RT? I think that would make a better product.

You only will have to do that as long as there are no metro Office Like apps in the store... It's a limitation of the ecosystem, not the OS.

And by the time a Office app hits the store it will be easier to get files into it or sync to any cloud service you like than currently it's on ios.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I can write quick (and some long) emails on an iPad just fine. I've also used iWork apps and other office compatible editors to work on documents. Those types of light productivity scenarios are already possible. People have been doing this with iPads for a couple years now.

The big difference is that using those apps on the iPad does not require me to use a keyboard, trackpad, find a flat desk surface for them and use an office suite designed for a mouse and keyboard. The fact that the productivity apps have been re-written for touch on the iPad is a positive. The experience is more natural for the device.

When MS rewrites office RT to be completely Metro styled and not reliant on the desktop environment and mouse, then they'll be on equal footing.

Isn't that the catch though? Why should MS rewrite Office to strip out a lot of the productivity functionality? The advantage her is you get full Office.

 

[Betta Lines]

just about everything you can do on a default windows install that hasn't had extra apps installed. registry access, full file browsing (including poking around in the windows directory), writing batch files, all sorts. i believe there's a desktop version of IE also, along with the Office applications.

Anything you can do with a traditional version of Windows, minus the third party app selection. For some people, that alone is a nice feature, and it's not as if you're forced to use the desktop. I would imagine that there simply wasn't enough time to get something as complex as Office working well as a Metro/Modern/Windows 8 style/Microsoft design style app.

But why would you want these 'power user' features like registry access if you have no ability to install x86/x64 software? It sounds totally redundant.

 

[venne]

nope. I never said that. I said that having to use the desktop environment (and the keyboard, trackpad, mouse UI that this requires) to use Office limits the types of locations where you can actually use the suite and that limits the flexibility of the device.

I think that is a drawback that makes it less usable than ipad in a lot of different scenarios.

I think it's a fair criticism considering that there's not much use for the desktop in Win RT aside from having Office run on it. Would we all be surprised if MS releases a Metro office and strips the desktop from future versions of Windows RT? I think that would make a better product.

Who says it's required?

You can finger it up if you want. Sure it's better with the touch cover, but that's not a requirement to its usage.

 

[stktt]

If there's one thing I don't understand, it's the lack of an included Metro file browser. There's a pretty decent one in the store. If some random developer can pull it off, why can't Microsoft?

 

[Windu]

I'm happy with my iPad but in the future if I considered switching I would need to see my most used apps on the windows app store.

Flipboard, Readability, Dropbox and Kindle for example. Without them I wouldn't make the switch.

Office is the biggest selling point because then I could ditch my laptop and work/play with one device on the go.

there are rss apps in the store, and some with readability suport. No dropbox but there is skydrive and there is a kindle app.

 

[plagiarize]

But why would you want these 'power user' features like registry access if you have no ability to install x86/x64 software? It sounds totally redundant.

i don't know Windows RT yet, but there is a lot of customisability of the OS that you can do in the registry in Windows 8 and earlier. x86/x64 software doesn't even have to come into it. browsing a network and transferring files, etc, is a task that i can't see a metro app doing as well as a desktop where i can have multiple browser views open and quickly select multiple things, and what have you.

 

[yn-neko hates a cat]

Ah, the confusion. I love it.

You're thinking Outlook.com right?

 

[Dunlop]

That's webmail, dude.. you could use that on the surface if you wanted.

I get that, I just assumed it would be branded Outlook and integrated into the OS(exact same layout). Like Skydrive was supposed to be.

I 100% admit to not knowing much outside of what I read about RT and Metro

 

[LCfiner]

yeah, see, you kind of *are* saying that when you say 'it would be better without the desktop'. i'm sure we'll see touch friendly versions of office apps (there's one already infact, in OneNote MX), but i wouldn't want to see the desktop disappear even when that happens. at that point for anyone the desktop confuses... well they can just unpin it from the start screen and pretend like it isn't there.

If you want the desktop even though traditional x86 apps can't run on RT, then that's your preference, but I don't see how it provides any advantage over other devices out there now. The situation is not the same on the Surface Pro or other x86 hybrid devices.

Isn't that the catch though? Why should MS rewrite Office to strip out a lot of the productivity functionality? The advantage her is you get full Office.

well, the person I first replied to said existing tablets can't do light productivity stuff. that it was only for consumption. But I know that's not true because Ive been using the ipad for emails and spreadsheets and other "light productivity" work for a couple years now.

So, for light productivity, I think Surface RT would be improved if Office was a full Metro app. Yes, you lose some of the complexity of the main apps, but you'd have a suite of apps that better fit the device. I guess there wasn't time for MS to write that, though. so the desktop version is there instead. (As always Surface pro and normal win8 is a different beast)

 

[Windu]

nope. I never said that. I said that having to use the desktop environment (and the keyboard, trackpad, mouse UI that this requires) to use Office limits the types of locations where you can actually use the suite and that limits the flexibility of the device.

I think that is a drawback that makes it less usable than ipad in a lot of different scenarios.

I think it's a fair criticism considering that there's not much use for the desktop in Win RT aside from having Office run on it. Would we all be surprised if MS releases a Metro office and strips the desktop from future versions of Windows RT? I think that would make a better product.

have fun using microsoft office on the ipad.

 

[plagiarize]

If you want the desktop even though traditional x86 apps can't run on RT, then that's your preference, but I don't see how it provides any advantage over other devices out there now. The situation is not the same on the Surface Pro or other x86 hybrid devices.

how easy is it to browse a network and copy files across that network to your iPad? how is registry access not an advantage over your iPad? say you plug in a removable harddrive and want to partition it? say you want to read the error logs? say you want to create a relatively complex scheduled task?

most people won't touch these things i know... but i likely will.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

have fun using microsoft office on the ipad.

isn't office coming to the ipad in the first half of next year?

and for the multitasking, hate was a strong word, but I guess it makes sense for devs.

 

[LCfiner]

how easy is it to browse a network and copy files across that network to your iPad? how is registry access not an advantage over your iPad? say you plug in a removable harddrive and want to partition it? say you want to read the error logs? say you want to create a relatively complex scheduled task?

most people won't touch these things i know... but i likely will.

whoa, whoa, whoa... c'mon. registry access? really? you think people might actually want this?

OK, if these things are important to you, then I guess that's fine - MS has got your back. But you can't tell me that these are usage scenarios that make the device better for the vast, vast majority of people. And MS is going for mass population acceptance, not a niche crowd of system admins who need to edit the registry, partition hard drives or read error logs on a frequent basis.

... I'll give you network access and file copying. I've gotten apps like Dropbox and goodreader to help transfer files over to the iPad. so I figure some more people might appreciate that being built in. Although, even then, I've only needed to use those apps a dozen times or so each year.

have fun using microsoft office on the ipad.

I was responding to a comment about how Surface can perform light productivity usage and the iPad straight up can't. The iPad can. It can't run desktop Office and I'm fine with that but it has plenty of document editing apps that run just fine and don't force the user to switch to a whole new UI to use them.

 

[LukasTaves]

If there's one thing I don't understand, it's the lack of an included Metro file browser. There's a pretty decent one in the store. If some random developer can pull it off, why can't Microsoft?

Because file explorer doesn't fit in the experience Ms has in mind for metro.

The desktop file explorer is there for legacy, in metro their goal is that you don't have to manually place your files, they are just stored at a nebulous cloud (which may be on a cloud service or your local files) and it's the apps who are responsible to retrieving them to you.

You can already see that philosophy in place for Office 2013 and specially Onenote MX... Your files are in the cloud, and different apps connect to it to present those files, as well interconnect between themselves...

 

[Marty Chinn]

well, the person I first replied to said existing tablets can't do light productivity stuff. that it was only for consumption. But I know that's not true because Ive been using the ipad for emails and spreadsheets and other "light productivity" work for a couple years now.

Ah, I agree with you here then. I think the iPad is mostly a consumption device, but you can do some light productivity in certain areas. The key word is light though.

So, for light productivity, I think Surface RT would be improved if Office was a full Metro app. Yes, you lose some of the complexity of the main apps, but you'd have a suite of apps that better fit the device. I guess there wasn't time for MS to write that, though. so the desktop version is there instead. (As always Surface pro and normal win8 is a different beast)

But I guess the question is, is light productivity the goal? It seems to me that given such high demand for MS Office out there and how other suites aren't even a considerable substitute, why would those people want a stripped down version? It's like thinking Photoshop on the iPad is fine. People don't want the stripped down version; they want the full version so they can do everything they need to do that they normally would. It also keeps it familiar rather than having to relearn a whole new setup. Not having used the new Office on RT, I would hope there is some interface things that make it more fitting for the device and touch interface for basic tasks, but by no means do I think they absolutely have to rewrite the whole thing to fit the Metro style and strip it down. People don't want Office Lite, they want MS Office.