Forsete
Member
"Vad jobbar de med då?" sounds more silly than: "Vad jobbar hen med då?"
I hope you dont use that in the real world, most people would probably laugh their asses off at that.
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Sweden-GAF |OT| I'd Say It's Pretty Lagom
- Thread starter Ledsen
- Start date
"Vad jobbar de med då?" sounds more silly than: "Vad jobbar hen med då?"
I hope you dont use that in the real world, most people would probably laugh their asses off at that.
"Vad jobbar de med då?" sounds more silly than: "Vad jobbar hen med då?"
I hope you dont use that in the real world, most people would probably laugh their asses off at that.
Yeah well most people aren't used to it yet. It's just a matter of time until it's a normal word like any other. Practical words tend to stick around. And yes, "de" sounds more silly to me in that context. We typically don't use plural pronouns that way.
Also I don't understand the hostility, it's just a word.
I dont' think so, it's way too controversial, especially since it's not really solely being used when the gender is unknown, but rather as a provocation and a means to spread a political/ideological agenda that is not shared by the absolute majority. Most people fucking hate that word beyond reason.
Call me a "hen" and later you get to see some of my posts quoted in the "worst meltdown" thread
"Vad jobbar de med då?" sounds more silly than: "Vad jobbar hen med då?"
I hope you dont use that in the real world, most people would probably laugh their asses off at that.
You can't compare those two sentences as they mean something pretty different. 'De' are multiple people, 'hen' is just one.
That said, and this is not towards someone in particular really, people using 'hen' should be shot. Especially people using it for someone when they know the person's gender already. Then it just becomes some ultra-feminist garbage and the world would be a much better place without them. Like that kindergarten where they talk about everybody as 'hen' and all the books and stuff is just... genderless.
And if you don't know someone's gender use something like '(den) personen' or context-appropriate instead.
Bah.
I dont' think so, it's way too controversial, especially since it's not really solely being used when the gender is unknown, but rather as a provocation and a means to spread a political/ideological agenda that is not shared by the absolute majority. Most people fucking hate that word beyond reason.
Call me a "hen" and later you get to see some of my posts quoted in the "worst meltdown" thread
It's a gender-neutral pronoun that people can use instead of the default "he" or when the gender is unknown, and most people are in favour of gender equality. I don't know what provocation or agenda you're talking about, but I think you're being too paranoid. Also it seems pretty unreasonable to hate a word, a useful one at that.
"Vad jobbar den personen med då?" doesn't sound awkward to you?
And again, what's with the hostility? I'm pretty sure most people in favor of the word are just normal people.
It's not going to be used to take away your children's gender, like that one kindergarden tried to do. In the end, it's just a useful word that fits nicely into the language.
Jo, we say "person" or "individ". Also "hen" is "slipsten".
Vita kränkta män.
See above. Not appropriate in many situations. Also I'm sure you can think of more words with multiple meanings.
archnemesis
Member
Sure, I know several Swedes who have couchsurfers over regularly. You will probably have to move to a new place every once in a while though.
See this is exactly the sort of attitude that ensures that the word will never be mainstream and uncontroversial.
Canis lupus
Member
Hi Swedish people, I only had 1 encounter with a Swede, it was a Swedish girl that was in my country for some wakeboard tourney. She was nice, I want to know more Swedish people. ^_^
I really don't have a problem with a gender-neutral word by definition, I think it is a good idea, but the debate that has been about it has always been about cases like those mentioned. Cases when you don't know someones gender are abysmal.
To me it has become something as the word 'neger'. Initially it wasn't a bad word at all.
And sorry about the hostility.
Don't really think they should be shot but I wouldn't really think kindly about someone referring me as 'hen' if they knew (about) me or my name.But about the word itself... how would you write 'ackusativ' of hen? I mean like
han - honom
hon - henne
hen - ?
Just curious!
Forsete
Member
You can view it like that if you want. That males want to be referred to as males. My ex girlfriend would react a multitude of degrees worse than what I did though...
I thought it was people voting for SD, and saying things like "people using 'hen' should be shot", causing this.
I really don't have a problem with a gender-neutral word by definition, I think it is a good idea, but the debate that has been about it has always been about cases like those mentioned. Cases when you don't know someones gender are abysmal.
To me it has become something as the word 'neger'. Initially it wasn't a bad word at all.
And sorry about the hostility.
But about the word itself... how would you write 'ackusativ' of hen? I mean like
han - honom
hon - henne
hen - ?
Just curious!
I think the word is the dumbest shit ever but "Henom" feels obvious.
And sorry about the hostility.
Well no, I agree that that would be stupid. Can't say I've seen much of that type of usage being encouraged outside of extreme cases like that kindergarden though.
But about the word itself... how would you write 'ackusativ' of hen? I mean like
han - honom
hon - henne
hen - ?
Just curious!
No idea to be honest
you could just use "hen" like some people use "han" instead of "honom" even though it's wrong... "henom" is an option I guess but eh...why? you don't agree with the practical usage or the removal of "han" as the dominant pronoun in gender-neutral text?
No, not really.
Oh, that's news to me. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.
You've already got my analysis, and a few others. You disregarded them with a casual "oh, just another white offended man", i'm not sure whether to take your complaint seriously or not.
It just seems like people trying to be PC over some dumb shit. I also dislike that its just the two words mashed together.
Depends... do you pay in "natura"?
I really dislike the term "PC", it's such a lazy shortcut and has lost all meaning. Mostly now it's used by anti-establishment people who wan't to show how they're not a mindless drone by, ironically enough, mindlessly parroting an overused expression without offering any actual arguments. Not saying that's you, but the term is so tiresome to me. Beyond that though, gender equality is definitely not "dumb shit". Attitudes are not formed consciously, but unconciously, and the words we use, our body language, etc, all contribute to the implicit norms which form our society and culture. The use of male pronouns in gender-neutral contexts is certainly one part of this.
Yoshi, I love you man, but don't say shit like that if you don't want to offer any actual arguments on the matter. It's not a bad joke like some people like to think, it's actually worth discussing.
"PC" as a term can be appropriate in some situations. To me it's fine to use it towards someone but if you mention it talking about yourself I agree with you completely.
Gender equality isn't dumb at all (I know your post wasn't an answer to me). But it should stop at having equal rights, not being discriminated for it and the same salary for a job done. Females should be proud of being females and males being males. We are different by nature. Sometimes it feels that those ultra-feminists just wanna become men and as I see it they don't help their cause at all.
Though I leave it here... this thread is about Sweden.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
But that's my argument right there! No one uses the word around me, I brought the subject up once and everyone laughed at me - they were right about laughing at the subject because it is laughable. I understand that language is supposed to evolve; but "hen" is not a word that expands our language - it makes it ten times sillier - not smarter.
I would add "and being seen as equals in the eyes of society and culture", which is what stuff like "hen" is about. It's about changing attitudes and breaking norms formed over thousands and thousands of years, one step at a time. Sometimes they're small, seemingly silly, steps, but in a greater context they're not silly at all but worthy contributions to the whole. And it really has nothing to do with radical feminism or erasing gender characteristics in concept.
That's not really an argument though, just an emotional reaction. I offer two arguments: the practical one (as in it does serve a purpose grammatically) and the gender-equality one (needing a gender-neutral pronoun to replace the predominant male one in use today).
Ledsen, gender neutrality is not the same thing as gender equality. You seem to equate these terms, but in my opinion It's perfectly reasonable to think that gender neutrality in the form of the word hen is "dumb shit" while still being fiercly in favour of gender equality.
edit: ah i see that antipod var way ahead of mig
edit: ah i see that antipod var way ahead of mig
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I don't equate them, in fact that's the opposite of what I want to do. I only speak of gender neutrality in grammatical terms, ie text or statements where the subject's gender is irrelevant (legal texts and so forth). By creating a gender-neutral pronoun and using it in appropriate contexta, we move one step (albeit a small one) closer to gender equality. That's what I was saying in my above post about attitudes. It's not all about large issues like the right to vote or equal pay.
Grassclipper
Member
I never use hen, I think it's a neat idea but not really necessary. And one thing I noticed is that every time someone says it they get this instant aura of self-satisfaction. I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone but some people just looks like they're a second away from smelling their own farts when using "hen".
When the term is required to be used at work, like in some daycares and whatever then I have no problem with it even if I think it's a little silly.
When the term is required to be used at work, like in some daycares and whatever then I have no problem with it even if I think it's a little silly.
Forsete
Member
regn regn regn
Raaaaage. Ska ju tvätta bilen. >:'(
Pest eller kolera?
Nothing wrong with "vederbörande".
jakershaker
Member
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Thought I'd chime in on the "hen" debate (maybe I shouldn't, but eh): I dislike it. Not because I don't like the concept (having a good word to replace "han/hon" would be pretty nifty), but because I feel like the radical feminists have kind of ruined the word for the rest of us, just like they ruined the word "feminist" (I refuse to call myself one, even though I'm 100% for gender equality and agree with pretty much everything non-radical feminists say).
And yeah, people calling other people "hen" even though they know the person's gender is just stupid as all hell. Men and women are not identical and indistinguishable from each other (which we should be happy about), so why pretend that they are? That doesn't mean that men and women shouldn't have equal rights, just that pretending that there's no such thing as "gender" is stupid.
And yeah, people calling other people "hen" even though they know the person's gender is just stupid as all hell. Men and women are not identical and indistinguishable from each other (which we should be happy about), so why pretend that they are? That doesn't mean that men and women shouldn't have equal rights, just that pretending that there's no such thing as "gender" is stupid.
Welp 10 days of Penicillin for me then. It's not regular tonsillitis apparently but I did have a very elevated CRP level in my blood which confirms *some* sort of infection or inflammation Not sure what the lesson is here or if it's just bad luck (probably got it from making out with a stranger last week)...
Not sure what the lesson is here or if it's just bad luck (probably got it from making out with a stranger last week)...A good efford Ledsen, men inte direkt ett ämne som gjuter olja på några vågor =)
Forsete
Member
Naturtvätt is the best tvätt
Tvättade ändå.
Vaxade också, min rygg har visst gått av.
No, its not worth discussing.
There is no danger to have gender "things" like her/he she/him etc.
To keep this going, no, you shouldn't remove swings at kindergaarden since boys can swing higher which makes the girls feel less good, which isn't fucking true.
Yes, you should encourage woman and manly traits BUT of course you should also encourge "non" woman and manly traits.
Its not rocket science.
EDIT: We should meet up at Finess and take a coffee about this.,.. since all in Ljusdal does that.
EDIT2: Gender equality has nothing to do how we title eachother... or what we do. Its about respect aka common sense.
EDIT3: Changed the subject!? Noo!
Grassclipper
Member
Working this weekend, and all other weekends.
Getting payed for 40 hours of work when only working 25 though. =)
Värnamo-GAF btw
We don't need a gender neutral word in our society or our language for that matter. It's dumb and, what, assuming a person is of one gender is That much of a splinter in your eye that you have to be all pissy about it and get mad?!
"OH IT'S A SHE? WELL EXCUSE-FUCKING-MOI, hey don't punch me in the face and sue my ass plz? It's a she, i get it, let's mooove thee fuuuck oooon".
If this shit gets in to SAO, i'll start adressing people as IT.
"OH IT'S A SHE? WELL EXCUSE-FUCKING-MOI, hey don't punch me in the face and sue my ass plz? It's a she, i get it, let's mooove thee fuuuck oooon".
If this shit gets in to SAO, i'll start adressing people as IT.
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