Switch 2 BC: Which Games Will Run Better By Default?

hemo memo

hemo memo

You can't die before your death
Hi everyone

With the Switch 2 launching in 40 days, I've been thinking about Switch games. Which ones do you think will automatically run better on the new hardware even without updates? Like smoother frame rates and sharper visuals and maybe a small resolution boost just because of the extra power?

Discuss

If there was a similar thread then mods can close this one.
 
Wondering the same thing, will there be any native upgrades similar to how PS5 Pro upgrades PS4 games? I'd love to play Mario Wonder with better resolution!
 
Some Games that come to mind

Dynamic Resolutions and Unstable FPS:
Bayonetta 3
Doom 2016
Doom Eternal
Breath of the Wild
Tears of the Kingdom
Link's Awakening
Echoes of Wisdom
Witcher 3
Pokémon Sword/Shield
Pokémon Scarlet/Violet

Static Resolution and Unstable FPS:
Bayonetta
Bayonetta 2
Deadly Premonition 2

Dynamic Resolutions and mostly Stable FPS:
Mario Odyssey
Astral Chain
Pokémon Arceus


Edit:
additionally, I really hope Nintendo allows you to put games into "docked mode" even when played as a handheld.
it would need to be an optional thing as some games expect and/or support touch inputs when in handheld mode, so they can't make it the only option.

but with the 1080p screen it would be a perfect fit.
That way you can play a lot of Switch 1 games at 1080p, higher graphics settigs, or both, while in handheld mode. giving them an automatic quality improvement without any patch needed.

Mario Odyssey for example is dynamic 900p docked with higher graphics settings than in handheld mode. example, in handheld mode some transparencies are using dithering instead of true transparency (like for water)
this 900p docked mode would look way better on the new 1080p screen than the dynamic 720p handheld mode with dithered effects.
 
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Some games have 60fps in the code, but it's disabled on actual Switch hardware. Paper Mario and Xenoblade Chonicles X for sure, maybe others. I'll be curious if those run at full speed on the newer hardware by default.
 
jshackles said:
Some games have 60fps in the code, but it's disabled on actual Switch hardware. Paper Mario and Xenoblade Chonicles X for sure, maybe others. I'll be curious if those run at full speed on the newer hardware by default.
Click to expand...

I bet those actually need patches, but I assume they will get those patches at some point (maybe at launch)
but there are plenty of Switch games that were highly unstable and will instantly benefit without any intervention by the devs... some of which I listened above.

I actually stopped my Bayonetta 3 playthrough half way through because I'm waiting for the Switch 2 to finish it. that game is clearly way to ambitious for the Switch. targeting 60fps, bigger more open levels than the first 2 games, bigger enemies, more enemies... the dynamic resolution is basically constantly bottoming out and the game rarely hits 60fps.

so a game like that will hopefully feel like a next gen update simply through running on new hardware.
although VG Tech thought that Bayo 3's dynamic resolution isn't actually responding to GPU load, but is instead hard coded to drop when certain effects are on screen or a certain amount of them are... so maybe a patch for that game would be helpful even with the new hardware stabilising perfomance.
 
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tr1p1ex said:
None?
Click to expand...
ultrazilla said:
No they won't. This is Nintendo and we're gonna have to pony up the $10 upgrade for games to look/run better.
Click to expand...

they have no say in the matter. every game will run better on the new hardware, because they can't lock down the system to Switch 1 specs while running the games.
so every game will run better, just like every Xbox One game runs better on Series X, and every PS4 game runs better on PS5 (unless they already have a static resolution and never drop frames on the original console of course... as there's nothing to boost in those cases)
 
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kevboard said:
they have no say in the matter. every game will run better on the new hardware, because they can't lock down the system to Switch 1 specs while running the games.
so every game will run better, just like every Xbox One game runs better on Series X, and every PS4 game runs better on PS5 (unless they already have a static resolution and never drop frames on the original console of course... as there's nothing to boost in those cases)
Click to expand...

Source for this? Has Nintendo stated this?
 
ultrazilla said:
Source for this? Has Nintendo stated this?
Click to expand...

the source is that it would be a technical hurdle for them to implement something that limits their performance.
in order to accomplish this they would need to run each game in a VM that gives each game exactly 256 cuda cores and 4 CPU cores.
then they would need to downclock the entire system to run at 1ghz for the CPU and 768ghz for the GPU. doing this would inadvertently affect the system speed for the system menus and features like their game chat, which expect a specific clock speed to run smoothly.

so worst case scenario is that they run Switch games in a VM with only 256 cuda cores and 4 CPU cores but do so at Switch 2 clock speeds, as to not negatively affect the rest of the system.
and best case scenario (which would probably be the easiest to do for Nintendo) games will use 4 CPU cores and all of the Switch 2's 1536 cuda cores, both at full speed.

both would give Switch 1 games a boost, the second one a much bigger one. and either way the memory bandwidth alone will boost games like BotW even if the rest would be Switch 1 spec, as many games like BotW, TotK etc. are massively memory bandwidth bound on Switch 1.
 
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These rules don't apply to Nintendo. Classic games that can be played on Switch don't run better "automatically". In fact I think Nintendo goes out of their way to make sure the games run the same. For better or worse.
 
Possible none.

Here's the ones we know have patches:
  • ARMS
  • Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
  • Super Mario Odyssey
  • Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury
  • Clubhouse Games: 51 Worldwide Classics
  • The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
  • The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom
  • Game Builder Garage
  • New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe
  • Pokémon Scarlet and Violet
  • Big Brain Academy: Brain vs. Brain
Free Updates
 
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Has it been mentioned anywhere if physical Japanese games will be elegible for the $10 upgrade? I have 5 games I bought in Japan. However since Switch 2 is region locked i am wondering if it will be possible to.
 
Azelover said:
These rules don't apply to Nintendo. Classic games that can be played on Switch don't run better "automatically". In fact I think Nintendo goes out of their way to make sure the games run the same. For better or worse.
Click to expand...

this worked in the past where their systems went into a completely different hardware mode (and OS) to run BC games.
this is not realistically doable on Switch 2, as they support all of its OS features (game chat, game share etc.) while playing Switch 1 games, meaning they can't reduce clock speeds and put the system into a different mode.

ergo, games will be boosted if they want to or not.
 
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Was anything mentioned about portable resolution targets in bc? i.e. will Metroid prime 1 top out at 900p in portable ns2 on or will it stick to 600p like on ns1?
 
kevboard said:
the source is that it would be a technical hurdle for them to implement something that limits their performance.
in order to accomplish this they would need to run each game in a VM that gives each game exactly 256 cuda cores and 4 CPU cores.
then they would need to downclock the entire system to run at 1ghz for the CPU and 768ghz for the GPU. doing this would inadvertently affect the system speed for the system menus and features like their game chat, which expect a specific clock speed to run smoothly.

so worst case scenario is that they run Switch games in a VM with only 256 cuda cores and 4 CPU cores but do so at Switch 2 clock speeds, as to not negatively affect the rest of the system.
and best case scenario (which would probably be the easiest to do for Nintendo) games will use 4 CPU cores and all of the Switch 2's 1536 cuda cores, both at full speed.

both would give Switch 1 games a boost, the second one a much bigger one. and either way the memory bandwidth alone will boost games like BotW even if the rest would be Switch 1 spec, as many games like BotW, TotK etc. are massively memory bandwidth bound on Switch 1.
Click to expand...
Not to mention each CPU core has a big jump in IPC so even if they reduce cores count and frequency, it would still be impossible for them to get same low performance lol.

BTW, running Switch 1 games on Switch 2 is what has me more excited from the system, I definitely want to make some tests, specially in Xenoblade and fire emblem games.
 
Kataploom said:
Not to mention each CPU core has a big jump in IPC so even if they reduce cores count and frequency, it would still be impossible for them to get same low performance lol.

BTW, running Switch 1 games on Switch 2 is what has me more excited from the system, I definitely want to make some tests, specially in Xenoblade and fire emblem games.
Click to expand...

Xenoblade 2 is sadly locked to 720p in docked mode.
so that game would need a patch to get a meaningful boost in quality.

handheld mode did have a dynamic resolution, but I'm not sure how high it can go. DF found like 552p at the highest, but who knows if it can go to 720p and just never does on Switch 1.

that game would really need a resolution boost, as it's very crippled by the low resolutions it runs at. especially the screen space effects look absolutely horrid due to the low resolution.
so I really hope it gets a patch for 1080p 60fps or higher in docked mode, and similarly in portable mode.
 
kevboard said:
Xenoblade 2 is sadly locked to 720p in docked mode.
so that game would need a patch to get a meaningful boost in quality.

handheld mode did have a dynamic resolution, but I'm not sure how high it can go. DF found like 552p at the highest, but who knows if it can go to 720p and just never does on Switch 1.

that game would really need a resolution boost, as it's very crippled by the low resolutions it runs at. especially the screen space effects look absolutely horrid due to the low resolution.
so I really hope it gets a patch for 1080p 60fps or higher in docked mode, and similarly in portable mode.
Click to expand...
Yes, I still want to see how they behave BTW, just out of curiosity
 
kevboard said:
Some Games that come to mind


Dynamic Resolutions and Unstable FPS:
Bayonetta 3
Doom 2016
Doom Eternal
Breath of the Wild
Tears of the Kingdom
Link's Awakening
Echoes of Wisdom
Witcher 3
Pokémon Sword/Shield
Pokémon Scarlet/Violet


Static Resolution and Unstable FPS:
Bayonetta
Bayonetta 2
Deadly Premonition 2


Dynamic Resolutions and mostly Stable FPS:
Mario Odyssey
Astral Chain
Pokémon Arceus
Click to expand...
Pretty much nailed it here. Any games with an unstable framerate or dynamic res will run better by default.

Games capped at 30 will need to be patched in order to run higher, though.
 
kevboard said:
they have no say in the matter. every game will run better on the new hardware, because they can't lock down the system to Switch 1 specs while running the games.
so every game will run better, just like every Xbox One game runs better on Series X, and every PS4 game runs better on PS5 (unless they already have a static resolution and never drop frames on the original console of course... as there's nothing to boost in those cases)
Click to expand...
Nintendo has all the say in the matter afaik.

And the OP was wondering what games will be better "without updates."

Also Nintendo is charging $10 for enhanced ZElda. But you're saying, in effect, you don't need the $10 enhanced pack to get higher resolution and faster frames. I wouldn't be betting on that.
 
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kevboard said:
the source is that it would be a technical hurdle for them to implement something that limits their performance.
in order to accomplish this they would need to run each game in a VM that gives each game exactly 256 cuda cores and 4 CPU cores.
then they would need to downclock the entire system to run at 1ghz for the CPU and 768ghz for the GPU. doing this would inadvertently affect the system speed for the system menus and features like their game chat, which expect a specific clock speed to run smoothly.

so worst case scenario is that they run Switch games in a VM with only 256 cuda cores and 4 CPU cores but do so at Switch 2 clock speeds, as to not negatively affect the rest of the system.
and best case scenario (which would probably be the easiest to do for Nintendo) games will use 4 CPU cores and all of the Switch 2's 1536 cuda cores, both at full speed.

both would give Switch 1 games a boost, the second one a much bigger one. and either way the memory bandwidth alone will boost games like BotW even if the rest would be Switch 1 spec, as many games like BotW, TotK etc. are massively memory bandwidth bound on Switch 1.
Click to expand...
One need to look no further than what you can do with a hacked Switch. When overclocked, only games with dynamic res and uncapped framerates see instant improvements aside from actually hitting base numbers. Anything else requires patching.

Go over to GBAtemp and check out their patch repository. https://gbatemp.net/threads/60-fps-cheats-for-nswitch.592464/
 
Probably none of them since not 100% of games seem to be completely compatible, so they are probably run switch games through some kind of emulation, and I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to have the emulation have the exact same performance.
 
This is a big early issue for me. The actual Switch 2 stuff isn't that big a deal, so if they could just announce already what has immediate performance boost, like XBX, Pokemons (I know SV was confirmed), and other others then I'd be inclined to buy a console sooner.
 
tr1p1ex said:
Nintendo has all the say in the matter afaik.

And the OP was wondering what games will be better "without updates."

Also Nintendo is charging $10 for enhanced ZElda. But you're saying, in effect, you don't need the $10 enhanced pack to get higher resolution and faster frames. I wouldn't be betting on that.
Click to expand...
No, he's literally saying Nintendo need to actually do actual work in order to make games run worse for the sake of it because of the way BC works on Switch 2. And even then it wouldn't be possible to make them run as bad as in Switch 1 anyway.
 
tr1p1ex said:
Nintendo has all the say in the matter afaik.

And the OP was wondering what games will be better "without updates."
Click to expand...

no they don't. they can't restrict the performance of the system to stop games from running better, without negatively affecting the performance of the Switch 2's OS features.
many games on Switch 1 do not hit their framerate or maximum dynamic resolution target. running on better hardware will improve or entirely fix that.



coffinbirth said:
One need to look no further than what you can do with a hacked Switch. When overclocked, only games with dynamic res and uncapped framerates see instant improvements aside from actually hitting base numbers. Anything else requires patching.

Go over to GBAtemp and check out their patch repository. https://gbatemp.net/threads/60-fps-cheats-for-nswitch.592464/
Click to expand...

Surprised Nicolas Cage GIF


the entire topic is about games that benefit from better hardware because they run badly on the original system and don't hit their target... that's literally the tooic of this thread.
 
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kevboard said:
no they don't. they can't restrict the performance of the system to stop games from running better, without negatively affecting the performance of the Switch 2's OS features.
many games on Switch 1 do not hit their framerate or maximum dynamic resolution target. running on better hardware will improve or entirely fix that.





Surprised Nicolas Cage GIF


the entire topic is about games that benefit from better hardware because they run badly on the original system and don't hit their target... that's literally the tooic of this thread.
Click to expand...
No, the thread title is "which games will run better by default" ...and I provided you with a list of games that won't -beyond- said targets.

But yeah, coooool, very constructive thread you have here.
 
ultrazilla said:
No they won't. This is Nintendo and we're gonna have to pony up the $10 upgrade for games to look/run better.
Click to expand...
Seems to only be when they're labeled as "Switch 2 Editions". We already know ow the following games are getting free patches to improve resolution/frame rates:
Walter Matthau said:
Possible none.

Here's the ones we know have patches:
  • ARMS
  • Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
  • Super Mario Odyssey
  • Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury
  • Clubhouse Games: 51 Worldwide Classics
  • The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
  • The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom
  • Game Builder Garage
  • New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe
  • Pokémon Scarlet and Violet
  • Big Brain Academy: Brain vs. Brain
Free Updates
Click to expand...
 
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kevboard said:
no they don't. they can't restrict the performance of the system to stop games from running better, without negatively affecting the performance of the Switch 2's OS features.
many games on Switch 1 do not hit their framerate or maximum dynamic resolution target. running on better hardware will improve or entirely fix that.
Click to expand...
Okay even in a worst-case scenario, it's reasonable to expect a significant improvement in loadtimes across the board right?
 
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hemo memo said:
Okay even in a worst-case scenario, it's reasonable to expect a significant improvement in loadtimes across the board right?
Click to expand...
Yes, best case (and mostly all cases unless some weird thing happens) without a patch will be games running 100% of the time at their maximum target resolutions and target frame rate. I thought we already knew this at this point.
 
Kataploom said:
No, he's literally saying Nintendo need to actually do actual work in order to make games run worse for the sake of it because of the way BC works on Switch 2. And even then it wouldn't be possible to make them run as bad as in Switch 1 anyway.
Click to expand...

So they are going to do work to make TotK run worse unless you pay $10? Seems conspiratorial.

And he doesn't know how Switch 2 bc exactly works. Just speculation.

l won't bet on no updates to take advantage of extra power. And that was the original question.
 
tr1p1ex said:
So they are going to do work to make TotK run worse unless you pay $10? Seems conspiratorial.
Click to expand...
No, damn, that's exactly the reason why games are gonna run way better, because Nintendo would have to do extra work if they wanted the games to run as on Switch 1... They won't, it's stupid, doesn't make sense, reduces Switch 2 value, gives them bad PR, it would probably be expensive and even impossible considering they could reduce CPU clocks to Switch 1 clocks but then they'd have to deal with way better IPC per core anyway. That just won't happen, the patches are just for going above Switch 1 limits.

tr1p1ex said:
And he doesn't know how Switch 2 bc exactly works. Just speculation.
Click to expand...
Well, it's not emulation, it's not running natively, there are just a couple options I can think about: VM and translation layers, IIRC VM tends to be way too heavy and removes the versatility required for quick upgrade patches, so the only option left that makes sense is a translation layer just like Proton for SteamOS or Rosetta for MacOS.

tr1p1ex said:
l won't bet on no updates to take advantage of extra power. And that was the original question.
Click to expand...
Nintendo already confirmed games will run better out of pure brute force:

Gambit2483

Platform  Post in thread 'Switch 2 BC: Which Games Will Run Better By Default?'

Make of this what you want...

7T9Hw09.jpeg
  • Like
 
Kataploom said:
No, damn, that's exactly the reason why games are gonna run way better, because Nintendo would have to do extra work if they wanted the games to run as on Switch 1... They won't, it's stupid, doesn't make sense, reduces Switch 2 value, gives them bad PR, it would probably be expensive and even impossible considering they could reduce CPU clocks to Switch 1 clocks but then they'd have to deal with way better IPC per core anyway. That just won't happen, the patches are just for going above Switch 1 limits.


Well, it's not emulation, it's not running natively, there are just a couple options I can think about: VM and translation layers, IIRC VM tends to be way too heavy and removes the versatility required for quick upgrade patches, so the only option left that makes sense is a translation layer just like Proton for SteamOS or Rosetta for MacOS.


Nintendo already confirmed games will run better out of pure brute force:
Click to expand...

Obviously they can leverage the power of the S2 for Switch games because they are charging for it for 3 or 4 or 5 specific Switch games. And we're back to square one with your first paragraph ie the other guy was in effect saying TotK will run in higher res and higher frames without the $10 upgrade.

And yes it's both hardware and software b/c which means they might have to do extra work to take advantage of S2 power. ie would require an update.
 
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tr1p1ex said:
Obviously they can leverage the power of the S2 for Switch games because they are charging for it for 4-5 specific Switch games. And we're back to square one. The other guy was in effect saying TotK will run in higher res and higher frames without the $10 upgrade.

And yes it's both hardware and software b/c which means there might have to extra work done to take advantage of S2 power.
Click to expand...
No, you're literally understand it upside down lol.

First, Switch 2 doesn't need any extra work for the games with unstable frame rate to run at their max target frame rate and with dynamic resolution to always have their max target resolution. Nintendo would have to make some effort if they wanted to those games to run worse than they will on Switch 2 just so they run as bad as they do on Switch 1.

Nor him or me or nobody is saying TOTK won't need a patch to run as it will on Switch 2, but if Nintendo didn't release any patch for it, then it would still run better, say at 1080p30fps stable all the time.

That's because Switch 2 is way more powerful than Switch 1 and it's running Switch 1 games using a translation layer which allows to take full advantage of its power instead of the old methods of emulation or directly putting the old hardware and software inside the new console.

I hope it's clear now.
 
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Kataploom said:
No, you're literally understand it upside down lol.

First, Switch 2 doesn't need any extra work for the games with unstable frame rate to run at their max target frame rate and with dynamic resolution to always have their max target resolution. Nintendo would have to make some effort if they wanted to those games to run worse than they will on Switch 2 just so they run as bad as they do on Switch 1.

Nor him or me or nobody is saying TOTK won't need a patch to run as it will on Switch 2, but if Nintendo didn't release any patch for it, then it would still run better, say at 1080p30fps stable all the time.

That's because Switch 2 is way more powerful than Switch 1 and it's running Switch 1 games using a translation layer which allows to take full advantage of its power instead of the old methods of emulation or directly putting the old hardware and software inside the new console.

I hope it's clear now.
Click to expand...
We saw that with PS5 running PS4 BC games. This is no different I believe.
 
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Kataploom said:
No, you're literally understand it upside down lol.

First, Switch 2 doesn't need any extra work for the games with unstable frame rate to run at their max target frame rate and with dynamic resolution to always have their max target resolution. Nintendo would have to make some effort if they wanted to those games to run worse than they will on Switch 2 just so they run as bad as they do on Switch 1.

Nor him or me or nobody is saying TOTK won't need a patch to run as it will on Switch 2, but if Nintendo didn't release any patch for it, then it would still run better, say at 1080p30fps stable all the time.

That's because Switch 2 is way more powerful than Switch 1 and it's running Switch 1 games using a translation layer which allows to take full advantage of its power instead of the old methods of emulation or directly putting the old hardware and software inside the new console.

I hope it's clear now.
Click to expand...
The possibilities were always all clear. But what actually happens is not.
 
kevboard said:
the source is that it would be a technical hurdle for them to implement something that limits their performance.
in order to accomplish this they would need to run each game in a VM that gives each game exactly 256 cuda cores and 4 CPU cores.
then they would need to downclock the entire system to run at 1ghz for the CPU and 768ghz for the GPU. doing this would inadvertently affect the system speed for the system menus and features like their game chat, which expect a specific clock speed to run smoothly.

so worst case scenario is that they run Switch games in a VM with only 256 cuda cores and 4 CPU cores but do so at Switch 2 clock speeds, as to not negatively affect the rest of the system.
and best case scenario (which would probably be the easiest to do for Nintendo) games will use 4 CPU cores and all of the Switch 2's 1536 cuda cores, both at full speed.

both would give Switch 1 games a boost, the second one a much bigger one. and either way the memory bandwidth alone will boost games like BotW even if the rest would be Switch 1 spec, as many games like BotW, TotK etc. are massively memory bandwidth bound on Switch 1.
Click to expand...
I don't think that this is the technical hurdle you think it is. It is basically how Microsoft built out 360 BC on the original Xbox One and we got basically Xbox 360 performance out of it, while the rest of the One UI was functional (although you did have the 360 UI pop up in game, but the Switch doesnt have that same setup) with the exception of v-sync because it was enabled for everything on the 360 VM.

We really don't know what BC for unlocked games like Bayo3 look like right now. I certainly am hoping for enhancements but no way to know.
 
diffusionx said:
I don't think that this is the technical hurdle you think it is. It is basically how Microsoft built out 360 BC on the original Xbox One and we got basically Xbox 360 performance out of it, while the rest of the One UI was functional (although you did have the 360 UI pop up in game, but the Switch doesnt have that same setup) with the exception of v-sync because it was enabled for everything on the 360 VM.

We really don't know what BC for unlocked games like Bayo3 look like right now. I certainly am hoping for enhancements but no way to know.
Click to expand...

uhm what? 360 games can run way better on the Xbox One.
at first they didn't always run better because running 360 games on Xbox One had many technical hurdles to overcome.
the 360 CPU ran at 3.2 ghz for example, while the Xbox One CPU runs at 1.75 ghz.

there's a reason Xbox 360 games needed to be modified to even function.

after some initial issues with this backwards compatibility however, basically all 360 games got a performance boost when played on Xbox One.

















these performance boosts are in spite of the fact that these games were designed for a 3.2 ghz 6 threads PowerPC CPU... and every time you see the performance struggle it comes down to this very issue, the CPU, while the GPU powers through everything basically.


the Switch 2 doesn't have these hurdles.
Switch 1 had an ARM CPU, Switch 2 has a faster ARM CPU with twice the cores.
Switch 1 had an Nvidia GPU, Switch 2 has a faster Nvidia GPU with 6 times the cuda cores
 
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rkofan87 said:
the 1 game i want is
en.wikipedia.org

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
this game has unstable fps
Click to expand...

all the Warriors games on Switch probably need help... but that's generally true for all Warriors games on all systems... usually...

the Switch has,
Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires
Dynasty Warriors 8 Extreme Legends
Dynasty Warriors 9 Empires
Samurai Warriors 5
Fire Emblem Warriors
Touken Ranbu Warriors
Warriors Orochi 4
Warriors Orochi 4 Ultimate
One Piece Pirate Warriors 3
One Piece Pirate Warriors 4

and while I didn't see perofmance numbers for all of these, it would be surprising, and uncharacteristic of Warriors titles, if any of these ran smoothly.
 
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It's not like ps4 to ps4 pro or ps4 to ps5, it will be None unless Nintendo or game developer patch it, especially when it been said that switch games don't run native on switch 2 they run through some kind of code switch 2 running, so we could see more hikups in games
 
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