kevboard
Member
the PS5 does also support 48hz to 120hz just like the Xbox One consoles. on Xbox you can simply force it on at all times, while on PS5 the devs have to enable 120hz support on a per game basis.
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Switch 2 dock output is HDMI 2.1 not 2.0
- Thread starter LordOcidax
- Start date
the PS5 does also support 48hz to 120hz just like the Xbox One consoles. on Xbox you can simply force it on at all times, while on PS5 the devs have to enable 120hz support on a per game basis.
ReasonBeing
Member
Not to ruffle any feathers, but you're also using circumstantial evidence to assume that switch 2's dock doesn't output VRR due to certification issues. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that you're criticizing his line of reasoning while doing something similar.The HDMI certification is a well known topic in tech forums, you are making an assumption and probably that was just a coincidence.
LordOcidax
Member
The difference is that is a fact that a certification is needed for VRR support over HDMI, and probably Sony had the same issue with the PS5 and VRR at launch. For the handheld mode Nintendo didn't had that problem because HDMI is not needed.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I forgot to mention in Linux. Windows is fine. Sorry!
ReasonBeing
Member
And in his scenario, Sony choosing to update the firmware was required. In both scenarios we can only speculate as to why it played out the way it did.
kevboard
Member
it was because their TVs had issues and they didn't want them to look bad in the eyes of their customers... it's super obvious.
Sony TVs got VRR in march 2022... the PS5 got it in april 2022.
imagine if the PS5 supported VRR on launch, and people would talk about how their 2021 "PERFECT FOR PLAYSTATION 5" (yes that's how they were marketed) Sony TVs, who were promised a VRR update, still couldn't use VRR, and wouldn't be able to for more than a year, while Samsung, LG, even cheap TCL TVs supported it already.
Sony had issues implementing VRR into their TVs, and had to patch issues for months following the initial VRR update for their 2021 and 2022 TVs.
it all came down to the image processor they were using. the "XR" chip.
their TVs' dimming zones didn't work when using VRR, and that was probably why it took so long for them to be updated, but even with the first update the issues weren't gone. it took them about 3 months or so to get the VRR working properly with their image processing chip.
again, these were advertised as "perfect for PS5" by Sony... in early 2021... more than a year before VRR support was added to the PS5. imagine the PR disaster if the "Perfect for PS5" TVs didn't support one of the brand new HDMI features, while nearly every other brand had TVs out since 2020, some since 2018, that supported it without issue.
it was clearly a PR decision.
same reason they took ages to add 1440p. most of their own TVs do not support 1440p (probably also something to do with their image processing). so imagine if an owner of a 2019 Samsung TV would be able to run their PS5 at 1440p 120hz, but owners of a 2019 Sony TV would only be able to run 1080p 120hz.
when the PS5 first released, those 2019 TVs that didn't support 4K 120hz yet, but did support 1080p 120hz in Sony's case, were still very new and people probably bought them very recently and didn't plan to replace them yet.
so if Sony allowed 1440p, once again, Samsung, LG and many cheaper brands suddenly had still relatively new TVs on the market and in people's homes that had better support for Sony's own console... than Sony themselves...
the 1440p support was probably added as late as it did, because in mid 2022, those 2019 TV's weren't as relevant anymore, and most people had 4k 120hz TVs now anyway. so might as well start supporting 1440p for PC monitor users.
I mean, come on... it's just way too big of a coincidence that Sony's brand new home console was missing features that just so happened to coincide with the missing features of their own TVs... and like magic, those features were patched in just in time when they finally got it, or when it wasn't as much of an issue anymore.
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Pop
Member
Well they are Apple of the gaming world nowwatch nintendo try to pull some crap like this
ReasonBeing
Member
I absolutely believe that was the case. I was just pointing out that the only evidence we have that this was the case is circumstantial. Just like his assertion that the Switch 2's dock doesn't output VRR strictly due to certification delays. It's plausible, maybe probable, but we don't have direct evidence of this being the case.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Funny cause I get a off on and off flicker with VRR enabled with my g-sync monitor...
Guardian Monkey
Member
Real chip GSync or Freesync that is NVidia certified (ie Gsync Compatible)?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Real logo and all.
How do you know this? I don't think there is any concrete evidence to make a claim like this. It's possible but it may not be a version issue but something to do with the fact that the dock is an intermediary device. I have seen very few HDMI switches for example supporting VRR but some are still HDMI2.1 (sans VRR support).
Guardian Monkey
Member
lol, what is the display I think both have the gsync logo
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LordOcidax
Member
The Switch 2 uses the same DP to HDMI chipset as some models of the PS5 Slim.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
G-SYNC Compatible (NVIDIA Certified)
Dell Alienware AW3225QF Review
The Dell AW3225QF is a premium 4k 240Hz QD-OLED gaming monitor. It competes with a number of other 32-inch QD-OLEDs, such as the MSI MPG 322URX QD-OLED, the Giga...
www.rtings.com
Says it right in the review
Why you asking anyway?
Guardian Monkey
Member
Mainly just curious, Gsync compatible is adaptive sync hardware support, where as Gsync has a Nvidia Gsync chip. When you said it was flickering I was just wondering which it was. That's all.G-SYNC Compatible (NVIDIA Certified)
Dell Alienware AW3225QF Review
The Dell AW3225QF is a premium 4k 240Hz QD-OLED gaming monitor. It competes with a number of other 32-inch QD-OLEDs, such as the MSI MPG 322URX QD-OLED, the Giga...
Says it right in the review
Why you asking anyway?
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Hopefully you're right but I've seen adaptors that are HDMI2.1 and have no VRR support. the DP to HDMI chipset, would that even be used on a PS5 other than for PSVR2? I don't really have much knowledge of the HDMI protocol or how it works.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Either way it's odd that occasionally I get flickering when vrr is enabled almost like it's trying to run it.
Guardian Monkey
Member
It's one of the common pitfalls of gsync compatible. It's not the same as the actual monitors with gsync chips with the handshake. But most monitors and I think all or almost all tvs with Gsync branding are just Gsync Compatible. The flickering has occurred to some degree on all of my TVs that have Gsync Compatibility.
LordOcidax
Member
Probably the console sending the VRR signal but the handshake is not successful.
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LordOcidax
Member
The chip is for convert the Display Port video/audio signal from the GPU of the console the to the HDMI output that connects to your tv.
This is different to DP alt mode though, right? Which the switch would have to be using? They would need specific support for that I believe in the active adaptor (dock chipset). From what I understand even if it is hdmi 2.1 VRR in DP Alt Mode is not guaranteed. I guess it all depends on the differences or rather similarities between RTD2175N and RTD2175P as proof that it is possible.
marquimvfs
Member
Maybe it's the other way arround, they only put VRR on their stuff when they learned how to. By the time when it happened, they put it on everything
kevboard
Member
that would be pretty sad lol.
no, they simply couldn't get VRR working properly with their TV image processor. every other manufacturer was years ahead of them... up to 4 years ahead in fact. and many implemented HDMI VRR the second it was released. Microsoft instantly patched the One S to support it, Samsung instantly patched their TVs to support it, both originally only supported FreeSync as HDMI VRR wasn't quite out the door yet when they came to market. LG supported it in their first new line of TVs after it was out.
Sony just fucked up with their TV APUs and the PS5 had to wait until their TV issues were resolved.
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LordOcidax
Member
No, probably they are just waiting for the certification to enable HDMI 2.1 features set (I think) that may include the VRR. And the chips are the same.
willothedog
Member
'(HDMI implementation) sloppiest of all the console manufacturers', John Linneman 'Digital Foundry'
kevboard
Member
VRR is disabled in the dock…not going to work probably, that's the whole point of a possible firmware upgrade in the dock, but the chipset is 100% capable of VRR.
so... about that...
LordOcidax
Member
Is matter of time.
kevboard
Member
I wonder what's the holdup tbh.
makes no real sense to me...
and it's not like they want to avoid confusing settings or wonky/not fully ironed out display modes.
as their whole 1440p support is very confusing and spotty, and they had no issue implementing that.
it could be because not every TV is detected as they're using gsync... but most HDMI VRR compatible TVs should support Gsync... but again, even if there's some issues with some TVs, that's already the case with their 1440p 120hz support... so, better to support some TVs than to support none
Moses85
Member
LordOcidax
Member
The only logical explanation is the HDMI 2.1 certification for the console.
kevboard
Member
they don't really need that. Gsync works just fine on 90% of modern VRR TVs.
any screen that has VESA Adaptive Sync support should work with Gsync
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LordOcidax
Member
For Gsync yes, but Nintendo is not going to do that… All or Nothing.
kevboard
Member
again, they had no issue implementing a very confusing and spotty 1440p 120hz support. so this argument doesn't hold water imo.
their HDR implementation is also atrocious...
and it's not like every display out there supports HDMI VRR. there are still older TVs used in many households today that don't support HDMI VRR, but possibly support Gsync through their Freesync or Vesa Adaptive Sync support.
and I mean, as for modern TVs... even Sony TVs support Gsync... and they are the worst big brand TVs when it comes to gaming and supporting game related features out there
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LordOcidax
Member
Thats small issue… imagine Nintendo explaining that VRR is going to be supported by some tvs… And the shit storm after that.
fallingdove
Member
Is this confirmed or are you just hoping that Nintendo updates the firmware at some point in the future?
kevboard
Member
they don't have to explain anything, just say "we added Gsync support"... that's it...
Gsync support... that's 2 words, no further explanation needed.
you either have a Gsync screen, or you don't. it's that simple.
it's way less convoluted than the HDMI 2.1 bullshit, where to this day people say HDMI VRR needs, and exclusively works with HDMI 2.1, when that's both true but also misleading due to how HDMI version numbers are used colloquially, since HDMI 2.0, which is still used colloquially, is technically now under the HDMI 2.1 umbrella.
meanwhile, Gsync support... 2 words. and you can just google the name of your TV + Gsync support and see, or look on the box of your TV, or the settings... or just toggle it on and see if it works.
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LordOcidax
Member
Remember that we are talking about a console here, not a PC. This product is targeting mass market and that would cause confusion.
LordOcidax
Member
Not confirmed, is an assumption, you can read the first two pages of this thread on why i think this is matter of time.
kevboard
Member
HDMI VRR also causes confusion... I was banned from a thread ON HERE because I got into a heated discussion with someone who refused to accept multiple pieces of conclusive evidence that I provided that HDMI 2.0 devices can support HDMI VRR.
he went as far as claiming that the PS5 used Gsync to enable VRR on HDMI 2.0 PC monitors.
that's ON THIS FORUM, a forum where supposed enthusiasts gather (well, I have come to accept that's not true by now lol)
it's the sole reason I made this video lol:
so I can just link that should it ever come up again.
Gsync support meanwhile is simple, and it isn't burdened by this idiotic HDMI 2.0/HDMI 2.1 discussion in any way.
your TV will probably have Gsync support listed on the very box... LG TVs have it listed in their settings...
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LordOcidax
Member
Agree with you that the console is fully capable of VRR right now via Gsync, but knowing how Nintendo works, they probably have the all or nothing mentality and with that the avoid a bunch of explanations… I am 99% sure that the console is going to support VRR in docked mode in the future. The hardware and the. marketing material is a good indicator of that.
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kevboard
Member
I just absolutely disagree with your assessment that Gsync support would be in any way in need of an explanation.
HDMI VRR is the most confusingly conveyed bullshit in the history of TV standards. in fact, the world would be better off if it didn't exist tbh, and everyone just supported FreeSync instead.
FreeSync and Gsync are far simpler to explain to people, because they are very easy to google and find info on.
meanwhile, to know if your specific Monitor/TV supports HDMI Forum VRR, the only reliable source I personally know of that can give you that answer is Rtings.com, and only if you're lucky and they have a more recent review or a recently updated review of it.
even most (if not all) Youtube reviewers like MonitorsUnboxed often completely ignore to test or mention if HDMI Forum VRR is supported, and even the official spec sheets of monitors often completely ignore to list it. it's insane!
the very monitor I used as an example in my video, the ASUS ROG Strix OLED XG27AQDMG... on the entire product page of that Monitor, not 1 mention of HDMI Forum VRR. they list Gsync, FreeSync and even Vesa Adaptive Sync support... HDMI VRR isn't mentioned once.
but it supports it, and the literal only reliable source of info on this fact is if you go onto Rtings.com, look for the review of it, and scroll all the way down to the PS5 compatibility chart.
the name alone is awful... HDMI Forum VRR...
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Guardian Monkey
Member
I said gsync compatible is Freesync protocol for 2.0 that's been certified by nvidia and VRR was a hdmi HDMI 2.1 spec. I was right then and I know you know that because you parroted the same thing a week later in a different thread almost word for word.
get the fuck out of here, last time you went off cursing me out and you just got a thread ban and the mod deleted half the shit you were spewing. They are free to reference that from last time if you want to start this again. Dont start this shit here or do. I don't care, I'm not going to engage with your dumb misinformed ass anymore.
kevboard
Member
the PS5 also doesn't support FreeSync, again, you have no idea what you're talking about and couldn't explain how a PS5 supported VRR on an HDMI 2.0 screen.
and you are the prime example of why the HDMI VRR standard is more confusing to the causal lamen (you) than Gsync is.
it's funny that you think you know better than the biggest, most through, and most trusted review site out there, which says this:
explain how the PS5 supports VRR on a screen that is HDMI 2.0. and explain to me how it somehow doesn't support VRR on a different HDMI 2.0 screen that has full Freesync Premium and Gsync support.
you couldn't answer that then, and you can't now.
I can answer it... it's because HDMI 2.0 supports HDMI VRR, because HDMI 2.0 doesn't exist anymore, because HDMI 2.0 is under the HDMI 2.1 umbrella.
you have zero clue what you're talking about, and thank you for demonstrating how stupid HDMI VRR is. it's way too convoluted for lamen like you to comprehend. Gsync is simple, it's a brand name, it's easy to google
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LordOcidax
Member
Never underestimate the capacity of some people to create a shit storm on everything especially the console community, if Nintendo said that the Switch 2 is VRR capable only for Gsync panels that would create caos here… Trust me.
kevboard
Member
it wouldn't, because most TVs support it. even cheap ass $450 entry models by Hisense have gsync support.
Guardian Monkey
is living proof that the average person has way more issues understanding HDMI Forum VRR
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Guardian Monkey
Member
You've already misquoted what I said order in this thread which you already have contradicted by rephrasing something completely different in this very quoted here above post. That's quite the contradiction.
dude VRR (not variable refresh rate) is not part of hdmi 2.0 spec, it never was on old docs. It's not in hdmi.org. You can't just will it to be true. The hdmi 2.0 response I literally already answered as it's basically freesync or Freesync certified by Nvidia. There is no 2.0 hdmi VRR, it doesn't exist. You couldn't find it because it's not a fucking thing. The monitor/tv has to have at least FreeSync /gsync compatibility support on a hdmi 2.0 for variable refresh rate set in that case it may work.. We aren't doing this again we're done my dude. If you don't understand, like I said last time then research it.
kevboard
Member
You've already misquoted what I said order in this thread which you already have contradicted by rephrasing something completely different in this very quoted here above post. That's quite the contradiction.
you are right, there is no HDMI 2.0 VRR... and guess what, there's also no HDMI 2.0 anymore..it doesn't exist officially anymore. it's not an official standard anymore.
every single HDMI 2.0 device is officially an HDMI 2.1 device. any Device that has an HDMI bandwidth of between 18Gb/s and 48Gb/s is officially HDMI 2.1
Xbox One S? HDMI 2.1! old 2018 era Samsung TVs? also HDMI 2.1!
every feature associated with HDMI 2.1 is also entirely optional. VRR, ALLM etc. and can be in theory implemented to any of them but can also just be entirely missing.
I told you that in that other thread already.
and then you claimed the PS5 supports freesync, at which point you demonstrated that you are talking out of your ass.
Here's 2 monitors.
ASUS ROG Strix OLED XG27AQDMG Review
The ASUS ROG Strix OLED XG27AQDMG is a 27-inch, 1440p gaming monitor with a 240Hz refresh rate. It has a variant sold at Best Buy called the XG27AQDMGZ. It uses ...
www.rtings.com
AOC Q27G3XMN Review
The AOC Q27G3XMN is a 27-inch budget gaming monitor. Competing with the Acer Nitro XV275U P3biipx, it's rather unique for a low-cost monitor as it features Mini ...
www.rtings.com
both "HDMI 2.0",
both Vesa Adaptive Sync, Gsync and FreeSync Premium compatible.
the PS5 meanwhile supports VRR only on one of them. explain how that can be the case, if HDMI 2.0 doesn't support HDMI Forum VRR.
at which point, you'd also disagree with the people working at RTINGS.com... who will tell you that the ROG supports HDMI Forum VRR and the PS5 doesn't support any screen other than HDMI Forum VRR compatible ones...
I wonder if you have the hubris to still claim you're right.
edit: also, technically HDMI 2.1 also doesn't really exist anymore
it's all HDMI 2.2 now. all current HDMI 2.1 certified devices can get 2.2 certification... and before that 2.0 devices could get 2.1 certification... which in return means that 2.0 devices can now be 2.2 certified while supporting or not supporting VRR, ALLM or any special features, and having an 18Gb/s bandwidth 
The HDMI Forum everybody! they make it so simple and easy to understand!
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ShadyAcshuns
Gold Member
Well now... THAT totally destroys the nay-sayers' narrative that VRR couldn't be added in later with a software patch.
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