Swordman attacks people at school in Sweden

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Nander said:
This is disgusting. Are you really using this tragic event to push your racist views? That the solution to immigrants getting killed is to limit the number of them? You're really taking victim blaming to a new, revolting, level.
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You're reading what I'm saying in the worst possible light. Of course the racists are deluded fucks and are the ones to blame. I've said nothing about limiting the numbers of imigrants and I've expressed no racists views. How is stating that the current influx of imigrants will lead to further attacks from racists controversial?

Regarding expo, I feel that they see racism as a problem in much the same way as friatider sees imigration. They're not an impartial source of information.
 
Gorger said:
First victim is 20 year old student assistant Lavin Eskandar who tried to disarm the murderer and protect the children so they could run for safety. He probably saved a lot of lives with his heroism.

eskandar_4.jpg


RIP
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Hero.

Thoughts and prayers go out to all them and their families.
 
hydrophilic attack said:
This is one of the most ridiculous false equivalences I've ever seen
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I'm glad I've broadened your views.

My reasoning is that blatently agenda based journalism, no matter how good the intent, is too open to, for example, confirmation bias.

If you ask a racist publication, imigrants will be the problem, if you ask an anti-racist one, racists will be, if you ask a old school feminist one, patriarchy, leftist; capitalism... This is fine in opinion pieces or blogs, but if such a publication claims to be reporting news I think a certain degree of scepticism is merited.

More on topic : Lavin is the sort of man I aspire to be. Ready to defend others despite the risks to himself. I hope his actions are commemorated in some way.
 
Dictator93 said:
Semms like a person with reasonable opinions.
I seriously hope this does not become common place at any point due to the inflamed mediality regarding refugees and multi-culturalism
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It will become common place. If you haven't noticed homes for asylum seekers have been burning lately. Even those meant for kids.
EDIT: sorry if I'm wrong but I assumed you where a Swede for some reason.
Musician said:
It's worth noting that expo is pretty much the left wing mirror image of "friatider" which is a racist/anti-imigration "news"-site.

I fear for the future of Sweden right now. 190 000 new imigrants (at a projected, and imo lowballed, cost of 8.75 billions dollars until the end of 2017) will only further egg on these kinds of attacks as the racists rile themselves up to new heights. If the housing bubble bursts as well you can be damned sure who people will look to, to blame as the economy goes down the toilet. Tensions are already at an all time high due to what people percive as "imigrant privilages" like being given accomodation before swedish people who've been in a queue for 15+ years.

Events seem to be aligning themselves in the worst way possible,
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You aren't that old I reckon. I remember a lot of "fearing" for Sweden during the Balkan crisis. I remember having to fight nearly every damn day because I wasn't Swedish. I remember a lot of them getting into school faster, I remember a lot of them getting work quicker. I remember a lot of shit happening and I remember a lot of the ones who fled going back to what was left after the dust "settled". I remember a lot*.

on Topic: This really has me down. I've become jaded with everything I've done and seen through the years and when my fathered died I thought that would be the last time I cried until it was time for my mother to pass. It wasn't. I still have something that can break within me. I know what I type next isn't sane in any way but if anyone here, reading this, finds them selves in a situation where you have to do something as lunatic as this please just keep one thing sane: Never touch the kids. They are truly the only future we can have and is the sole key to a better tomorrow.




*The best thing I remember is when I see one of the idiots at work that called me a dumb nigger when I drunkenly asked if this was the bus going to town*. He was dressed fully in white, with a white belt
fail right there
and as I turned around I just picked him up, laid him carefully down in the mud, stood on him and asked the bus driver again if this bus was going to town. The bizarre thing is that he never put up a fight. He just froze up but every time he sees me he turns around. This was 18-20 years ago. He still remembers.
 
Faustek said:
You aren't that old I reckon. I remember a lot of "fearing" for Sweden during the Balkan crisis. I remember having to fight nearly every damn day because I wasn't Swedish. I remember a lot of them getting into school faster, I remember a lot of them getting work quicker. I remember a lot of shit happening and I remember a lot of the ones who fled going back to what was left after the dust "settled".
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Indeed I am not. 28 years. Sucks to hear what you've gone through. I have immense respect for people like you who managed to fight your way through all the bullshit that comes with not being a native. I can't even begin to imagine what that's like.

Maybe the fear is an overreaction. It's just that with the fires at planned asylums, SD's growing support and now this... if an econonomic downturn was to hit I'm not sure what would happen.

Just to make one thing clear, I'm not "afraid" of the immigrants. If anything, I'm afraid of other peoples fear and what it will make them do.
 
Musician said:
I'm glad I've broadened your views.

My reasoning is that blatently agenda based journalism, no matter how good the intent, is too open to, for example, confirmation bias.

If you ask a racist publication, imigrants will be the problem, if you ask an anti-racist one, racists will be, if you ask a old school feminist one, patriarchy, leftist; capitalism... This is fine in opinion pieces or blogs, but if such a publication claims to be reporting news I think a certain degree of scepticism is merited.
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Can you back this up with any concrete examples of Expo being blinded by confirmation bias? Expo is a professional organisation. Their board consists of people from a lot of different political backgrounds. One of the members of the boards was head of right-wing think-tank Timbro and a member of the Moderate party, while others are more left-wing. Their research archive is open to everyone. Their editor-in-chief is a well-respected journalist, who famously and successfully infiltrated the National Democrats for a TV piece 15 years ago. The head of their board is a professor at Stockholm University.

This is a big contrast to the joke of a website that is Fria Tider.
 
Musician said:
Indeed I am not. 28 years. Sucks to hear what you've gone through. I have immense respect for people like you who managed to fight your way through all the bullshit that comes with not being a native. I can't even begin to imagine what that's like.

Maybe the fear is an overreaction. It's just that with the fires at planned asylums, SD's growing support and now this... if an econonomic downturn was to hit I'm not sure what would happen.

Just to make one thing clear, I'm not "afraid" of the immigrants. If anything, I'm afraid of other peoples fear and what it will make them do.
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Full disclosure. My dad was Swedish. Well he was born a Skåning so make of that as you wish ^^ But with him working for Unicef/Sida I never actually lived in Sweden at the start. It was when my mother got pissed that I didn't get a real education with jumping countries all the time that we settled down here. I myself have been jumping around as well but I finally settled for good, I think, here in Sweden. No more work abroad that is longer than 2-4 weeks please.

But as for the fear part it's fully understandable. All of the spectra is. When people don't really recognize themselves they become afraid of the unknown and people who are afraid do stupid things. Everyone alike.
That's why it's so important to make asylum seekers feel safe
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~ Friend that worked at the migrations office

I just wish the outlook was better. For all of us.
 
ArjanN said:
To be fair the Star Wars empire uniforms and Vader's helmet are clearly a take on Nazi uniforms.
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Not really, Vader was influenced by a lot of things, like Kurosawas samurai movies, old hollywood B-movies and some old tech from the 19th century.
 
Gorger said:
First victim is 20 year old student assistant Lavin Eskandar who tried to disarm the murderer and protect the children so they could run for safety. He probably saved a lot of lives with his heroism.

eskandar_4.jpg


RIP
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RIP. He's a hero.

What a terrible tragedy this whole thing is. In Sweden of all countries. Damn.
 
Lovely Salsa said:
How did he grow up to be a neo nazi? Thats my question

He must've had like-minded people around him
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Pretty easy to get into a hateful mindset.
Life sucks for you in some way, you can't kick up so you kick down, you are bombarded every day with a message, you don't understand how important it is to clean out your cookies and not let Google* lead you into the same shit as you once visited so you always end up in the same place that has an agenda to push. Not always nice. You find that you have a voice in this place, the echoes become stronger. The echoes is now who you are and fuck it if it's just you talking to yourself because that might be the only one listening.
You end up insane or just really hateful.
It's not impossible to get out of it but I reckon it's nearly is if you don't have anyone to drag you out of it.

*As the kid seemed to be a loner I assume he lived his life mostly online.
 
hydrophilic attack said:
Can you back this up with any concrete examples of Expo being blinded by confirmation bias? Expo is a professional organisation. Their board consists of people from a lot of different political backgrounds. One of the members of the boards was head of right-wing think-tank Timbro and a member of the Moderate party, while others are more left-wing. Their research archive is open to everyone. Their editor-in-chief is a well-respected journalist, who famously and successfully infiltrated the National Democrats for a TV piece 15 years ago. The head of their board is a professor at Stockholm University.

This is a big contrast to the joke of a website like Fria Tider. You are lucky there are no Swedish mods. If there were, you would be banned for spewing such revisionist bullshit. I hope it's just naivete on your part, rather than something more insidious.
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I was completely off base with them being left wing and maybe with my general opinion of them is false. I'll have to do some research. I based my assumption on things I've read in their magazine and on their website in the past.

Calling for me to be banned, though... Sit down a breath a bit, will you? I know the subject is sensitive, but I fail to see why I would deserve such venom, even if my assumption turned out to be baseless.

I stand by my reasoning that news reporting should be, as far as it is possible, impartial.
 
Faustek said:
It will become common place. If you haven't noticed homes for asylum seekers have been burning lately. Even those meant for kids.
EDIT: sorry if I'm wrong but I assumed you where a Swede for some reason.
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Assylum seeker places of dwelling have been burning in Germany as well. So you are right... this is becoming common place.
 
The police confirmed he left a farewell letter.

Horrible way to commit suicide by taking other people with him.
Weird to see a guy who was almost scared when you looked at him putting on a costume and killing people, having everyone paying attention to him. I guess that was his plan. >_<
 
King Endymion said:
It's scary that me and my dad was the killer's teacher, he attended a cnc education for like 10 months and just finished 2 months ago.
He was the silent type, always wore military pants and boots.
What's scary is that we both said he was a "Breivik", that he could snap anytime, and he actually did.
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Wow. I can't imagine what that must feel like.
The pictures with this nutjob are equally haunting. My thoughts go out to the victims and their families.
 
I wonder how many of these "THE IMMIGRANTS/JEWS ARE COMMING"-people have a hint of schizophrenia*. The murderer was at the right age for it to begin to develop.

I can't believe that a sane human being would do something like this. Or maybe I don't want to believe it.

*Schizophrenia doesn't mean multiple personality disorder as many people think. It's tends to manifest as intense paranioa and bouts of psychosis. It usualy develops in the early 20s.
 
RoadHazard said:
The part that means no regular Joe Swede (apart from hunters) has any access to guns at all. We simply don't have them, and I wouldn't know where to go for one. Except for criminal gangs I suppose, and I'm not particularly tempted to go ask them if I can have one.

But it's not just the laws, it's also the culture. We just don't have a culture of owning guns here, it's not part of Swedish life like it is in the US. Which I guess comes from the fact that it's not legal.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

31.6 guns for every 100 residents of Sweden. #9 in the world for per capita gun ownership.

Apparently not all that uncommon.
 
Fudgepuppy said:
The guy that supposedly did it, had on facebook a couple of people with the same surname, sharing racist views.
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This is what I thought

Growing up in a racist environment is toxic.

I know of a guy on facebook that is a neonazi, posing proudly with a picture of Hitler. Whenever his kids are in his Pictures, they never smile. They look miserable

I think the government should take the Children away from these kind of people. How fucked up will they be when they grow up?
 
Musician said:
I was completely off base with them being left wing and maybe with my general opinion of them is false. I'll have to do some research. I based my assumption on things I've read in their magazine and on their website in the past.

Calling for me to be banned, though... Sit down a breath a bit, will you? I know the subject is sensitive, but I fail to see why I would deserve such venom, even if my assumption turned out to be baseless.

I stand by my reasoning that news reporting should be, as far as it is possible, impartial.
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Sorry, I was being out of line. I thought you were being deliberately disingenuous. I see now that it was an honest mistake on your part, so I'm sorry for judging you prematurely.

ivb_1973 said:
TrollhattanTrollhattanTrollhattanTrollhattan.

LoL
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smh
 
Musician said:
I wonder how many of these "THE IMMIGRANTS/JEWS ARE COMMING"-people have a hint of schizophrenia*. The murderer was at the right age for it to begin to develop.

I can't believe that a sane human being would do something like this. Or maybe I don't want to believe it.

*Schizophrenia doesn't mean multiple personality disorder as many people think. It's tends to manifest as intense paranioa and bouts of psychosis. It usualy develops in the early 20s.
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Could of course be, but it is also very telling that possible insanity quickly becomes a speculative explanation as long as we're dealing with western, extreme-right racist terrorists, while it is almost never an issue in explaining Islamist acts of terror.
 
Bodacious said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

31.6 guns for every 100 residents of Sweden. #9 in the world for per capita gun ownership.

Apparently not all that uncommon.
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Most of those guns are concentrated to a group of people who either have an interest in hunting or collecting firearms. So they're not as spread out in society as the numbers might indicate. One extreme example that I remember from a news article was a man who had an entire room in his house filled with rifle racks from floor to ceiling. My own grandfather had 5 or 6 old rifles and I think most hunters here have a similar amount after they've been active for a couple of years.
 
zon said:
Most of those guns are concentrated to a group of people who either have an interest in hunting or collecting firearms. So they're not as spread out in society as the numbers might indicate. One extreme example that I remember from a news article was a man who had an entire room in his house filled with rifle racks from floor to ceiling. My own grandfather had 5 or 6 old rifles and I think most hunters here have a similar amount after they've been active for a couple of years.
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Yeah, most hunters have 2-6 weapons.
 
Roboleon said:
Could of course be, but it is also very telling that possible insanity quickly becomes a speculative explanation as long as we're dealing with western, extreme-right racist terrorists, while it is almost never an issue in explaining Islamist acts of terror.
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Very true and point taken. I think the reasons are far more complicated than the obvious one, though.
 
It is extremely disquieting to see that Sweden Democrats, a political party with its roots in Neo-nazism, has so much support in Sweden. As the xenophobic rhetoric ramps up in intensity, I can only see these hate crimes getting more and more common in the future.

Musician said:
I wonder how many of these "THE IMMIGRANTS/JEWS ARE COMMING"-people have a hint of schizophrenia*. The murderer was at the right age for it to begin to develop.

I can't believe that a sane human being would do something like this. Or maybe I don't want to believe it.

*Schizophrenia doesn't mean multiple personality disorder as many people think. It's tends to manifest as intense paranioa and bouts of psychosis. It usualy develops in the early 20s.
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People certainly don't have to have a mental condition like schizophrenia to have an "us vs them" mentality leading to an extreme fear/hatred of the "others," particularly if they have been constantly exposed to hateful rhetoric and had their prejudice reinforced over and over again. I've seen how increasingly common this attitude is here in my own country, Australia, with anti-immigration rallies like "Reclaim Australia" on the rise and our political leaders (ie. ex-PM Tony Abbott) attempting to gain popularity with "stop the boats" slogans.
 
And one important aspect is this:
It is illegal for a civilian in Sweden to carry a firearm, unless for a specific, legal purpose;such as hunting or attending shooting ranges. To transport firearms, there are rules to adhere to;the general regulations are that the gun must be unloaded, hidden and transported in a safe and secure way under supervision.
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http://www.sweden.org.za/gun-laws-in-sweden.html

You can't just run around with a gun.
 
hydrophilic attack said:
Sorry, I was being out of line. I thought you were being deliberately disingenuous. I see now that it was an honest mistake on your part, so I'm sorry for judging you prematurely.
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I understand that my rhetoric can appear to be dangerously close to the one that racists use. It's like they've hijacked part of the discussion and are holding it hostage by misconstruing the evidence and drawing false conclusions. I probably should've taken more time to formulate my arguments to avoid any confusion, especially seeing that this is my second language and we're talking about a very, very delicate subject. Not to mention getting my facts straight...

In other words, sorry for riling you up.
 
Lovely Salsa said:
Yea, putting them in a foster home is worse than them being brought up by extremists...
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If they are neglecting them or excluding them school or something then you don't need any "anti nazi" rule to take them into care. But I would never lightly consider taking a child into government care for political or ethno/religious reasons. That's some seriously creepy territory you are heading in to.
 
More Fun To Compute said:
If they are neglecting them or excluding them school or something then you don't need any "anti nazi" rule to take them into care. But I would never lightly consider taking a child into government care for political or ethno/religious reasons. That's some seriously creepy territory you are heading in to.
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Would you feel the same about an ISIS sympathiser ? A guy that worthships ISIS and makes his Children do the same

answer honestly now.
 
Sad story. RIP to the victim and hero.

I'm always trying to think of what can be learned from this type of incident. There has to be a change in mindset. More often than not I see society do nothing about xenophobic behavior. Rarely do individuals get called out and frequently it's commonly accepted by a large part of society, even if people do not do it and think it's wrong. Xenophobia is disturbingly commonplace.

It inevitably comes down to people thinking it's their "right" to be xenophobic, but it's also people's right to call them an asshole. It has to become more socially unacceptable, and unfortunately it seems to be becoming more socially acceptable.

The refugee situation in Europe isn't making this easy. How do you change the mindset when the refugee crisis is a legitimate problem? It's hard to imagine the situation getting better when it only seems to be getting worse.
 
Spocker said:
According to the wikipedia article qouted, almost 90% of the 2 million weapons in Sweden are rifles/shotguns mainly used for hunting. Only 140,000 are handguns or automatics
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Damn, that must be nice. Semi-auto weapons are so damn dangerous... and mostly to the people who wield them rather than in the hands of an unknown assailant. So many accidental deaths because people don't realize that when you take a clip out, a bullet remains loaded.
 
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