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[Game-Biz]

There is no difference. Equal time for equal crimes. If she didn't want to go to prison for 15 years then she wouldn't have gotten 16 year olds dunk and then raped them.

Ok, I'm not trying to pick an argument with you here, (and I agree that the teacher is not anyone I'd care to defend as a decent person in society) but I have a question for you, and I'm open to having my mind changed about this, since I could very well be speaking from incredible ignorance. But, isn't there a clear difference between say, for example, a 30 year man having consensual* sex with a 16 year old girl? And lets say that they're in "love" and have been sleeping together for a while. Now lets say another 30 year old man who gets a 16 year old girl drunk and forcibly holds her down to have sex with her as she screams in pain as she tries to push him away.

Now, both are bad, but one is worse. In the first case, I'd question why a 30 year old is going to after a 16 year old girl. I'd make the assumption that he's a definite creeper and manipulator that has issues if he's going after someone at age 16. I also would be surprised if this doesn't cause issues and emotional problems for the girl. In the second case, I'd assume the man has extreme emotional issues, is violent, ect and has caused an extremely, horrible, traumatic event in this girl's life, no question.

So, although, both of the above cases are defined as rape by law, shouldn't there be some distinction between the two? Both involved, I'd say, severe manipulation from the 30 year old men. But one was physical abuse against another human being against her will. While the other was perhaps a case where the man manipulated the girl into thinking that sex with him was was something she should do. Now as I write this, I actually think I'm understanding your point of view. But, still, I feel the "rape is rape" statment is not always accurate. For another hypothetical, the Hank Moody scenario for instance; is a man still on the same level of all other rapists if he unknowingly had sex with a minor? I'd say no. The context is different and it changes the circumstances.

Anyway, my stance is actually kind of changing on this issue right now, since both of the men I presented in my hypotheticals are not exactly great guys who deserve defending. But I'd like to hear yours or someone's input on this.


*not "legally" speaking, but as in the victim was willing to engage in intercourse as well, no matter how naive and manipulated that victim may or may not be, e.g. If the girl said, "no" to having sex, the man would not have pushed it

 

[bengraven]

She won't survive her sentence.

You know what they DO to child rapists in prison?

 

[A.E Suggs]

Elaborate on these genetics.

Man having more strength by default than females. I forgot that actual point I was trying to make though.

You know... a lot of young girls do fantasise about sex too. Sex with adult males. My female friends and I would talk about sex all the time when I was in school. This is absolutely awful, but there was even a girl in my sister's class who would brag to the other girls about having sex with her own uncle, and how much she enjoyed it.

It's not socially acceptable for girls to show an appetite for sex like it is for boys, but that doesn't mean that they don't have one. Not commenting on this particular case (not sure exactly what to think about it... 16 is the age of consent where I live, so y'know...), but in general this is more complicated than some people seem to think. A lot of young girls and boys actually think they enjoy sexual experiences while it's happening, but it still ends up seriously affecting them down the line.

Fair enough I don't understand the situation enough to make a judgement call on this topic. Me though personally I wouldn't have minded being raped at that age provided the male or female was hot(and without disease) and no torture was involved.

 

[theignoramus]

She won't survive her sentence.

You know what they DO to child rapists in prison?

uh, I think it might be different in a womans jail. I highly doubt anyone will go out of their way to give her shit for that. they may go after her cause she's fresh meat tho.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Ok, I'm not trying to pick an argument with you here, (and I agree that the teacher is not anyone I'd care to defend as a decent person in society) but I have a question for you, and I'm open to having my mind changed about this, since I could very well be speaking from incredible ignorance. But, isn't there a clear difference between say, for example, a 30 year man having consensual* sex with a 16 year old girl? And lets say that they're in "love" and have been sleeping together for a while. Now lets say another 30 year old man who gets a 16 year old girl drunk and forcibly holds her down to have sex with her as she screams in pain as she tries to push him away.

Now, both are bad, but one is worse. In the first case, I'd question why a 30 year old is going to after a 16 year old girl. I'd make the assumption that he's a definite creeper and manipulator that has issues if he's going after someone at age 16. I also would be surprised if this doesn't cause issues and emotional problems for the girl. In the second case, I'd assume the man has extreme emotional issues, is violent, ect and has caused an extremely, horrible, traumatic event in this girl's life, no question.

So, although, both of the above cases are defined as rape by law, shouldn't there be some distinction between the two? Both involved, I'd say, severe manipulation from the 30 year old men. But one was physical abuse against another human being against her will. While the other was perhaps a case where the man manipulated the girl into thinking that sex with him was was something she should do. Now as I write this, I actually think I'm understanding your point of view. But, still, I feel the "rape is rape" statment is not always accurate. For another hypothetical, the Hank Moody scenario for instance; is a man still on the same level of all other rapists if he unknowingly had sex with a minor? I'd say no. The context is different and it changes the circumstances.

Anyway, my stance is actually kind of changing on this issue right now, since both of the men I presented in my hypotheticals are not exactly great guys who deserve defending. But I'd like to hear yours or someone's input on this.


*not "legally" speaking, but as in the victim was willing to engage in intercourse as well, no matter how naive and manipulated that victim may or may not be, e.g. If the girl said, "no" to having sex, the man would not have pushed it

It sounds like the alcohol is the reason for the rape charge. Otherwise she would have been charged with statutory rape, or if they have a law on the books, with violating a law preventing teachers from having sex with their students regardless of age.

But I do see this as exactly the same as if a 30 year old man had given a 16 year old girl alcohol then had sex with her. The alcohol was either there as a bribe, or more likely to lower the kids inhibitions.

 

[DarkKyo]

So we can all agree the rape is only wrong when it's a dude doing it or an ugly women.

I think we can agree rape is 100% wrong if it's one person forcing themselves on another. If the young male is into the older female teacher, it's not nearly as deplorable as a young girl being forced into sex by an older male teacher.

So yes rape is only wrong when it's rape.

 

[Kettch]

Damn... hot or not, more than a decade sentence for a 15 and 16 year old is waaay to brutal imo.

But I admit, if it was a man who raped two females (or two males for that matter), i'd probably think it was an acceptable sentence..

The double standard is a touchy subject but i'm not entirely convinced that it's completely without warrant.

The double standard is completely reasonable because we're male. We are able to put ourselves in the shoes of the male and personally evaluate the scenario. Would I have liked to have had sex with some of my female teachers at 16? Hell yes. This chips away at the idea that it's a terrible crime, despite knowing that it could be quite harmful.

In the reverse scenario, I do not know what it's like as a 16 year old girl. I simply take the prevailing view of society that it could be quite harmful and consider it a terrible crime. There is no chipping away here. And putting myself in the shoes of the 16 year old male with a male teacher is of course horrifying, so I'm not going to have a sympathetic view there.

We base many of our morals on whether or not we would want something done to us, which is not a bad thing, but can lead to a result like this.

 

[Necromanti]

I think we can agree rape is 100% wrong if it's one person forcing themselves on another. If the young male is into the older female teacher, it's not nearly as deplorable as a young girl being forced into sex by an older male teacher.

So yes rape is only wrong when it's rape.

But who says the young girl didn't want to have sex with the older male teacher? Girls get horny, too, and become sexually mature at an early age than their male peers. So if anything, this situation is worse. But it doesn't matter, anyway, since they cannot consent, by law, whether they really "wanted to" or not. The statutory rape laws can be tricky, but they exist for a reason.

 

[Smellycat]

Why was Count banned?

 

[Devolution]

But who says the young girl didn't want to have sex with the older male teacher? Girls get horny, too, and become sexually mature at an early age than their male peers. So if anything, this situation is worse. But it doesn't matter, anyway, since they cannot consent, by law, whether they really "wanted to" or not. The statutory rape laws can be tricky, but they exist for a reason.

Let's be honest with ourselves these women are picking these students because they know they're a ball of confusion and hormones and it makes it that much easier to manipulate them. They're just as predatory as any man. The fact that people defend them and their actions is deplorable.

 

[Necromanti]

Let's be honest with ourselves these women are picking these students because they know they're a ball of confusion and hormones and it makes it that much easier to manipulate them. They're just as predatory as any man. The fact that people defend them and their actions is deplorable.

Indeed. And the students are even more vulnerable since she is assuming a role of authority. It's sad that female sexuality is still such a mystifying concept for people in society. And I can't say I'm comfortable with people wanting to model the law after their own fantasies, either.

 

[Devolution]

Indeed. And the students are even more vulnerable since she is assuming a role of authority. It's sad that female sexuality is still such a mystifying concept for people in society. And I can't say I'm comfortable with people wanting to model the law after their own fantasies, either.

I don't think enough people have watched To Die For with Nicole Kidman.

 

[FyreWulff]

It is a touchy subject, but I generally agree. Sexuality is very different between males and females. Just go to chatroulette to see what I mean That doesn't mean you can making a ruling based on that alone, but goddamn, I really find it hard to believe that two 16 year old males were really "raped" by this woman. I really just don't see it. Did she tie them down and forcibly abuse them? That would be something that I could see warrants many years in jail. But if the boys wanted to have sex with her as well, then I don't see how this is such a horrfic crime. The biggest crime here, is that the boys would get A's in the class without deserving it.

It's an abuse of a position of power for sex. It's rape. The bolded doesn't matter. And is especially harmful since people will say this to male rape victims.

 

[O.DOGG]

I doubt any of the boys would see it as rape. I think the sentence is ridiculous.

 

[FyreWulff]

I doubt any of the boys would see it as rape.

Annnnnd this is why it's hard for male rape victims to get help. If we let rape victims say if they were raped or not, we'd have an even lower reporting/tried/conviction rate.

 

[saltywalrus]

15 years in prison is ridiculous. I'm fucking tired of this "tough on crime" bullshit.

 

[J.W.Crazy]

The people saying they would have enjoyed it at that age confuse me greatly. There are lots of things you'd enjoy when you were younger that are bad for you in hindsight. Almost everyone can say they've done things they regret that seemed like a good idea at the time.

It's not like we don't know what happens to kids, male or female, in these situations. Their emotional growth is stunted. They often go on to have inappropriate, sexual or otherwise, relationships with children in the future.

 

[maxxpower]

I don't think enough people have watched To Die For with Nicole Kidman.

Lol I remember watching that movie as a kid.

 

[SapientWolf]

The people saying they would have enjoyed it at that age confuse me greatly. There are lots of things you'd enjoy when you were younger that are bad for you in hindsight. Almost everyone can say they've done things they regret that seemed like a good idea at the time.

It's not like we don't know what happens to kids, male or female, in these situations. Their emotional growth is stunted. They often go on to have inappropriate, sexual or otherwise, relationships with children in the future.

Age isn't the reason why she's doing time. She can bone all the 16 year olds she wants in OK, just as long as they're not in her school district, she doesn't make porn out of it and show it to her daughter, and she doesn't give them alcohol.

 

[A.E Suggs]

Annnnnd this is why it's hard for male rape victims to get help. If we let rape victims say if they were raped or not, we'd have an even lower reporting/tried/conviction rate.

Its hard for us but its still not as bad as it is for females. Its harder for a female to rape a male or else we'd see about the same amount between males and females. I don't think it will ever be equal because of this and I can't see what we can do to actually change this if people think that way.

I don't think enough people have watched To Die For with Nicole Kidman.

I kinda remember that movie but I remember it more for it being based off of a real trail. I saw it in high school, don't remember why we watched it.

 

[FyreWulff]

Its hard for us but its still not as bad as it is for females. Its harder for a female to rape a male or else we'd see about the same amount between males and females. I don't think it will ever be equal because of this and I can't see what we can do to actually change this if people think that way.

It is but as someone familiar with that situation, it's infuriating when you hear the "well, it's not like they were stronger than you" BS. The undertext that you actually wanted it.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

The people saying they would have enjoyed it at that age confuse me greatly. There are lots of things you'd enjoy when you were younger that are bad for you in hindsight. Almost everyone can say they've done things they regret that seemed like a good idea at the time.

It's not like we don't know what happens to kids, male or female, in these situations. Their emotional growth is stunted. They often go on to have inappropriate, sexual or otherwise, relationships with children in the future.

Makes me wonder what happens to the boys in these stories. Like do they have to get counseling or anything.

 

[J.W.Crazy]

Age isn't the reason why she's doing time. She can bone all the 16 year olds she wants in OK, just as long as they're not in her school district, she doesn't make porn out of it and show it to her daughter, and she doesn't give them alcohol.

I don't really care about the specifics of this case. The same arguments gets used any time an older women is caught having sex with teenage boys. We know that it's damaging in the long term. We know that those teenage boys can often go on to victimize others. Ignoring it is part of the problem.

 

[Puddles]

Ridiculous ruling.

It's not like we don't know what happens to kids, male or female, in these situations. Their emotional growth is stunted.

No way. Can you imagine how much of a confidence boost it would be to bang your hot teacher as a 16 year old? Good God. You'd have Tom Cruise level confidence after that.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

13 years before she's eligible for parole?

WOW

 

[Game-Biz]

Indeed. And the students are even more vulnerable since she is assuming a role of authority. It's sad that female sexuality is still such a mystifying concept for people in society. And I can't say I'm comfortable with people wanting to model the law after their own fantasies, either.

Well, girls want and have sex just as much as guys, of course, but they seem to go about it differently from my experience (or to speak the obvious). Most guys are very ok with the idea of having sex with as many girls as possible (regardless of if they're hot or just "average"), while girls seem to want that one particular guy to have sex with as much as possible as long as there's some emotional depth. Not saying that's actually how it is, but that's what I've seen in the college town environment were I live. A lot of guys here seem just dandy with the "hit it and quit it" mentality (not that girls don't want one night flings, but I think its more of a male thing, right?). Its been said, if a girls wants to have sex with any guy, all she has to do is ask. There's always lots of exceptions so it's not fair to automatically put males into a "horndog" bracket or females into a "I'm a good girl you have to wait till you get some" bracket. So it's just another stereotype.

I think because of these differences, how common or uncommon they might be, are the reason for all the confusion, misunderstanding, and insensitivity of each gender's sexuality.

It's probably why some men - or women - instantly have no real sympathy for teenage guys who have sex with older, attractive women like the teacher in this case, because it's very difficult for the average person to imagine any suffering or pain afflicted on these teen boys (their first thought might be that they must've enjoyed the hell out of it and wanted it) who purportedly brag and talk about how they fuck and want to fuck every hot chick they possibly can. So it's a bad image and stereotype for the teenage male. I'd be very interested to see the psychological effects of statutory rape on both teenage woman and men, actually. The stereotype suggests that men would be a whole lot less affected by it than women, but perhaps that's not the case at all.

 

[SapientWolf]

I don't really care about the specifics of this case. The same arguments gets used any time an older women is caught having sex with teenage boys. We know that it's damaging in the long term. We know that those teenage boys can often go on to victimize others. Ignoring it is part of the problem.

Why is it damaging? Is having sex with old women bad for your health?

 

[Puddles]

Yeah, at most she should have been given community service. At most.

Now the taxpayers of Oklahoma have to pay for her room and board for 15 fucking years. Prison industrial complex for the motherfucking loss.

Take a day off her sentence for every time one of the two students J/O'd to the memory of their encounter, and she'd probably have a negative sentence by the time you were through.

 

[FyreWulff]

Take a day off her sentence for every time one of the two students J/O'd to the memory of their encounter, and she'd probably have a negative sentence by the time you were through.

Fucking really

 

[Zaptruder]

Seems like this woman wasn't able to afford as much justice.... as the American prison-industrial complex.

 

[Ra\/en]

So we can all agree the rape is only wrong when it's a dude doing it or an ugly women.

Yep. That's about it.

 

[Matt]

Me though personally I wouldn't have minded being raped at that age provided the male or female was hot(and without disease) and no torture was involved.

Dosen't matter what you would mind or not. Crimes are committed against the state, not against individuals. Their feelings on the issue don't really factor into it.

 

[Puddles]

Dosen't matter what you would mind or not. Crimes are committed against the state, not against individuals. Their feelings on the issue don't really factor into it.

Right. We're saying the state has its priorities and its sentencing standards fucked up.

 

[Unicorn]

off topic has been depressing lately, rape and gun stories galore

Yeah, I've been spending a lot more time on Gaming Side or actually playing games because of it.

The gang rape of the 15 year old ruined my day big time.

 

[J.W.Crazy]

Why is it damaging? Is having sex with old women bad for your health?

For your mental health it absolutely can be. To a child there is no more "adult" act than sex and when someone you perceive to be an adult, whether they are mentally matured or not, treats you as an equal at a young age it can affect your emotional growth immensely. That can lead to a skewed sense of what types of relationships are appropriate to have with children. Snowball effect ensues.

The adult is essentially telling the child that they too are an adult. Once they've been recognized as an adult there's no need to continue growing. You end up with a grown man or women that has the mentality and maturity of a 16 year old. Even if they don't go on to repeat the same behavior themselves they can have a great deal of trouble connecting with people in their own age group.

 

[A.E Suggs]

It is but as someone familiar with that situation, it's infuriating when you hear the "well, it's not like they were stronger than you" BS. The undertext that you actually wanted it.

This is very true but me personally I have a hard time believing that if your are stronger and you aren't at gun point/blackmail etc that you can't do anything.

I will admit that maybe that's the wrong attitude to have here but at 16 you aren't a toddler and if your own personal body is capable of getting you out of danger you should use it. Again this is just my take on it and i'm a guy so maybe its harder for me to see if from your point of view, its something i'll defiantly try and think about.

 

[FyreWulff]

This is very true but me personally I have a hard time believing that if your are stronger and you aren't at gun point/blackmail etc that you can't do anything.

I will admit that maybe that's the wrong attitude to have here but at 16 you aren't a toddler and if your own personal body is capable of getting you out of danger you should use it. Again this is just my take on it and i'm a guy so maybe its harder for me to see if from your point of view, its something i'll defiantly try and think about.

Emotional control overrides physical capability, and that's about as far as I'll open up on that for now. Position of power + threats of blackmail (even if they are illogical, ie "I'll tell everyone you're a freak" even though it would incriminate themselves) are enough.

It'd be like accusing a female victim that they didn't use their gun to stop a rape, so they didn't do enough. The only one to blame is the rapist.

 

[Ingueferroque]

13 years before she's eligible for parole?

WOW

It's extremely harsh but I don't really know the exact circumstances, were the boys assaulted and did she force them to have sex with her?

I don't think luring boys in and 'raping' them is the same as a man forcibly raping a young girl.

 

[Htown]

Victim blaming in male rape cases isn't any better than it is in female rape cases, FYI.

You jokers would have been banned on the spot if it was a female rape case and you suggested that "I bet she liked it and didn't consider it rape" or "I have a hard time believing she couldn't have fought back."

In other words, you morons are posting some vile bullshit and I hope you're treated accordingly.

 

[Puddles]

Victim blaming in male rape cases isn't any better than it is in female rape cases, FYI.

You jokers would have been banned on the spot if it was a female rape case and you suggested that "I bet she liked it and didn't consider it rape" or "I have a hard time believing she couldn't have fought back."

In other words, you morons are posting some vile bullshit and I hope you're treated accordingly.

WTF is this?

Most of us have been 16 year old guys at one point.

 

[googleplex]

Yeah, this is bullshit.

No way the punishment fits the crime. 16 year old males are old enough to handle the physical and psychological, emotional issues during and after sex with a female much older than they are. That's assuming the boys consented. (Yes, I know that minors legally can't "consent," but y'all know what I mean.)

Really, I don't know the whole story, but I really feel sorry for her.

Yep. It's Bullshit

 

[A.E Suggs]

Emotional control overrides physical capability, and that's about as far as I'll open up on that for now. Position of power + threats of blackmail (even if they are illogical, ie "I'll tell everyone you're a freak" even though it would incriminate themselves) are enough.

It'd be like accusing a female victim that they didn't use their gun to stop a rape, so they didn't do enough. The only one to blame is the rapist.

AHHH! Your slowly trying to win me over I see sigh. The problem with the gun is that it kills or that you have to get it. Physical strength is a part of your body and emotion control can trigger fight or flight response....eh or something like that.

As I said its something i'll think about I still can't really see it the way you want me to but we'll see. I'm not above changing my mind but I don't think this is the topic to continue this convo in, i'm sure we'll meet again somewhere.

In other words, you morons are posting some vile bullshit and I hope you're treated accordingly.

Calling someone a moron isn't going to help either.

 

[jorma]

ridiculous

I'm with Puddles here.

What she did was not right, but 15 years is a fucking joke.

 

[EVOL 100%]

ridiculous

I'm with Puddles here.

What she did was not right, but 15 years is a fucking joke.

This, basically.

She probably should go to jail for a few years, but Jesus that's just too long.

 

[DY_nasty]

WTF is this?

Most of us have been 16 year old guys at one point.

In a parallel universe, GAF is made up of 99% women and all the threads featuring good looking, hairy chested, god-tier (or Robbert Pattinson-esque) men taking advantage of 15 year old girls on their soccer team and WOULD + NICE is equally awesome.

Now, both are bad, but one is worse.

I know you didn't get the response you wanted, but I feel the same way.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Ridiculous sentencing for having sex with two 16 year olds. Hell, that would be legal in the UK, and I don't see why not. People are too quick to rush to a judgment simply because they're not 18, but I'd like to know what kind of negative repercussions these kids would face for having had sex at that age with an older woman? And if there are no ill effects, then why do we punish the older woman? Because she enjoyed it as much as they did? Is she really taking advantage of them if that's what they wanted as well?

 

[Bleepey]

Makes me wonder what happens to the boys in these stories. Like do they have to get counseling or anything.

Counselling in the form of pats on the back and the respect and admiration of their peers.

 

[Fenderputty]

WTF is this?

Most of us have been 16 year old guys at one point.

Basically this ...

There was one specific teacher who I definitely wanted to "learn" a couple "extra curricular" activities with when 16-17.

Obviously each case has more nuance than that, but it helps play into the double standard for sure.

 

[neojubei]

Wow at some of the responses. Having sex with a child that is under age is rape, plain and simple and to think she is a teacher as well. IF I was a parent of a 15 year old son and found out his 40+ year old teacher was having sex with him I would not be high five-ing him, i would make sure that teacher got the maximum punishment under the law.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

A couple of things:

I have to go to the Daily mail to get this info. I feel dirty.
http://www.*****************/news/a...an-sentenced-15-years-prison-rape-sodomy.html

banned but seemed to give more info. I just googled her name and checked the news posts.

2, there were other charges that caused her to have a longer sentence. Supplying alcohol, raping 2 kids. This story even indicates she made a sex tape. I'm not sure why other accounts don't include that. That would be child porn, right? I wonder if it's true.

A former elementary school teacher who admitted raping two teenage boys - one of whom was her daughter’s boyfriend - has been sentenced to 15 years in jail.
Michelle McCutchan, 40, from Cecotah, Oklahoma, entered a blind plea to nine out of 29 counts filed against her in May last year.
The former Marshall Elementary school fifth grade teacher admitted to one count of rape, three counts of sodomy, one count of child neglect and four counts of furnishing alcohol to a minor.
The child neglect charge relates to McCutchan involving her daughter in sex acts with the teenage boy.

Charged: Michelle McCutchan, 40,who allegedly raped two teenage boys - one of whom was her daughter's boyfriend - waived her rights to a preliminary hearing on Tuesday

She waived her right to a preliminary hearing in July to spare her daughter and at least four other juveniles from testifying.
Last spring, the teacher confessed to having sex with the one teen, who was her daughter’s boyfriend, on at least five occasions and setting up a video camera to film two of the romps.
The mother-of-one also sent the teen nude pictures of herself as well as sexually explicit texts during their five-month affair.

Police found out about the affair when the teen boasted to his friends about the home made sex tape.
After being quizzed by detectives McCutchan admitted she had videoed herself having sex with her teen lover.
She then admitted having sex with the two boys, who were both 16-years-old at the time, between December 2010 to May 2011.

Add: slept with her daughter's boyfriend, filmed it twice, fucked another kid, sent nude pics to the boy. They had 29 charges on her and she pleaded out. Maybe they were adding a ton but it sounded like she did a lot more than just had sex with willing boys. If some guy filmed some young girl he was banging, I'm sure a lot more people would be upset. I know that's the standard gafism but she could have gotten a worse punishment.