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Teacher Michelle McCutchan, convicted of raping two students, sentence 15 years
- Thread starter Dram
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The only mention made to the U.S. was "That's only in the U.S." You aren't understanding, at all. I'm not arguing the law because that's pointless. I'm not arguing whether what she did in the U.S. is legal.
Here was the discussion I jumped in on:
I dont understand why a grown woman would want to have sex with a young kid.
Do people really consider 16 year old boys as 'young kids?'
How am I not understanding? You're in a thread about a teacher well into adulthood raping her students who are still treated as kids by society and under the law. Both the citizens and the law view 16 year olds as children who need certain protections.
Me: I think a 16 year old having sex with an adult is okay morally.
You: I think a 16 year old having sex with an adult is wrong, legally.
I said legally and morally and you snipped it out...
16 with 18? It's fine.
16 with 20? Would rather be illegal.
16 with 40 year old person of power using alcohol? Fucked up morally.
Your ignoring the context. Morals in the U.S. are different from other places in the world. So that's why I asked that question. The rest of the argument is a moral one.
Doesn't matter what moral code someone from some other country grew up on. From what I hear kids as young as 14 have full consent in some places. I try not to think about that since it's pretty depressing for someone who grew up in the US.
As a side note, if you use more condescending language like "you don't understand" then you'll be talking to yourself.
As a side note, if you use more condescending language like "you don't understand" then you'll be talking to yourself.
If you thought I was being condescending then I apologize, that wasn't my intention. I said "you don't understand" because I felt that there pretty much the only way to express my feelings of being misunderstood. Saying "You're misunderstanding" or "I feel misunderstood." are no less condescending then what I said.
How am I not understanding? You're in a thread about a teacher well into adulthood raping her students who are still treated as kids by society and under the law. Both the citizens and the law view 16 year olds as children who need certain protections.
This is exactly my point. I do not agree with adults being charged with having sex with with people 16 and 17. I feel since that on average 16-18 is when boys and girls
I said legally and morally and you snipped it out...
16 with 18? It's fine.
16 with 20? Would rather be illegal.
16 with 40 year old person of power using alcohol? Fucked up morally.
Here's something I said previously.
This isn't an argument about the US. This isn't about whether or not the teacher deserves the punishment she got. The teacher got them drunk before having sex with the students. She'd probably would've been charged with rape even if they were 18.
I already acknowledged that this particular situation was in fact rape. The person said said that an adult having sex with a 16 year old is messed up, implying that he meant it regardless of the situation. I don't see why 16 with 18 would be any different from 16 with 20 or even 40. 18, 20, and 40.
Well even ignoring the specifics of this case (not her students, legal age, etc etc), I would feel more violated if I were physically penetrated by force than someone forcing me to penetrate them.Why?
They're both victims but one is definitely more of a physically violating experience imo. A guy can experience that too ofc, but that's not what happened in this case.
How many of their high school girlfriends were adults? Like I said, it's not just about sex. It's about an adult acknowledging a child as an adult before they actually are one and to a child there are few, if any, more "adult" things than sex. If the feel accepted as an equal at such a young age what incentive do they have to grow?
You keep saying grow, but grow in what way? Even if that's true what you've been saying your talking as if only something negative can come out from it which isn't true. There can be good and bad repercussions for everything.
Devolution
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Well even ignoring the specifics of this case (not her students, legal age, etc etc), I would feel more violated if I were physically penetrated by force than someone forcing me to penetrate them.
That's why rape laws need to be updated from a more neutral perspective rather than men's fears of penetration. Sorry but your feelings are pretty subjective. Rape is rape.
They're both victims but one is definitely more of a physically violating experience imo. A guy can experience that too ofc, but that's not what happened in this case.
I don't feel like this is anything but subjective, a product of socialization and the reason so many men have trouble coming forward about their experiences.
I think my feelings can only be as subjective as anyone else's, seeing as I (and most people) have not had the experience of being raped by both sexes in two different ways.That's why rape laws need to be updated from a more neutral perspective rather than men's fears of penetration. Sorry but your feelings are pretty subjective. Rape is rape.
I don't feel like this is anything but subjective, a product of socialization and the reason so many men have trouble coming forward about their experiences.
You're right in that I can't assume a man wouldn't be equally and genuinely as traumatized/violated by being forced to penetrate a woman, than a woman would be after being forcibly penetrated. But I assume it nonetheless, and many share that assumption. You can assume the vice versa, but we'd both be simply assuming, as there is no hard data to back either of us up. Either way, yes they're both rape.
More OT: I still don't get why the headlines are "teacher rapes" when that has little do with anything given they weren't her students in any way (right?).
Devolution
Member
I think my feelings can only be as subjective as anyone else's, seeing as I (and most people) have not had the experience of being raped by both sexes in two different ways.
You're right in that I can't assume a man wouldn't be equally and genuinely as traumatized/violated by being forced to penetrate a woman, than a woman would be after being forcibly penetrated. But I assume it nonetheless, and many share that assumption. You can assume the vice versa, but we'd both be simply assuming, as there is no hard data to back either of us up. Either way, yes they're both rape.
More OT: I still don't get why the headlines are "teacher rapes" when that has little do with anything given they weren't her students in any way (right?).
I don't assume either way. I don't think the level of traumatization can be assumed just based on how you've been socialized to think that one direction of rape is worse than the other. The fact of the matter is regardless of how someone feels about it, rape of minors by an adult is not a gender specific crime in which men should be facing more years than women.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I hope these boys can recover from this horrific incident.Police found out about the affair when the teen boasted to his friends about the home made sex tape.
You keep saying grow, but grow in what way? Even if that's true what you've been saying your talking as if only something negative can come out from it which isn't true. There can be good and bad repercussions for everything.
Growth emotionally. Growth in maturity. There are no positives to becoming an adult who is not emotionally prepared for life as an adult. 16 year olds are not well equipped to raise children. Adults with the mentality and maturity of 16 year olds are just as bad, if not worse. They're not as well equipped to handle stress. Their social skills are not as developed. Certainly there will be people who are less affected or not affected at all but they're in a very small minority.
The brain of a teenage child doesn't begin to resemble that of an adult until the early 20s. Impulse control, planning ahead, risk assessment, these are all things that don't fully develop until later in life. If you skip ahead without properly developing you slow or stop growth at one of the most dangerous stages. Crime, drug abuse, accidental death, and more are all statistically higher in the 15 to 20 age range, especially in males, expressly because the brain is still growing and changing. The vast majority of these changes are more than just physical, they require proper input from the persons environment to be completed successfully. Treat them as an adult too early, at a time when they are likely to see themselves as adults, by giving them adult responsibilities and privileges and the message the brain receives is "mission accomplished!" even if it's far from done.
In this case the two boys still have 4-5 years of brain development to go through. Think about the change someone is likely to go through from 25 to 30. The changes that occur from 15 to 20 dwarf them and most other periods of change in human life.
But you inherently are, when confronted with the need to punish the one responsible accordingly. I agree it isn't a gender issue (not principally), but there's no way around the fact that there are anatomical and biological differences between different forms of rape. And perhaps, just perhaps, different forms of that violation would inflict varying degrees of devastation for the victims.I don't assume either way. I don't think the level of traumatization can be assumed just based on how you've been socialized to think that one direction of rape is worse than the other. The fact of the matter is regardless of how someone feels about it, rape of minors by an adult is not a gender specific crime in which men should be facing more years than women.
It's only when we go to hold someone accountable for their crime where the above is relevant. "Morally" it generally isn't, imo, as they're all still sexual violations (beyond assault), and rape.
And OBVIOUSLY this is all assuming their is no sense of attraction or anything consensual going on. I make the penetration argument, but a guy somewhere might like letting a girl anally penetrate them with a dildo. Does that mean if it were done to him by force and without consent, it wouldn't be rape? No, it'd be more or less the same as a man penetrating him (far as punishment goes). The same can go for a lesbian who might enjoy another woman penetrating her with a strap-on/dildo. That doesn't mean if she was forcibly penetrated by a female that it wouldn't be rape and equivalent to a man doing the same.
So in that sense, it isn't really a gender issue.
I still don't see what's worthy of 15yrs in jail from what has been put out in the public. There are details missing from the story that would convince/push me to the side of it being a fair sentence, but they're not there. Fucking your daughters BF is messed up but if he's above the age of consent then where's the crime? She did not upload the sex tapes on the net (so it's not a federal crime), so I don't see where the crime is in that. "Involving her daughter in sex acts" is vague as hell, give me facts. She had a 3some w/her daughter? Where's the incest charges? Her daughter filmed them? She filmed her daughter and her BF? I just need facts. What was on the sex tapes, were the 16yr olds blacked out and then she got on top of them? She gave them alcohol, how much alcohol, are we talking a beer or 151 proof? It wouldn't surprise me if the judge was just personally disgusted by her behavior and threw the book at her.http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=41887547#post41887547
She fucked her daughters boyfriend, and involved her daughter.
I don't see what is damning about her admitting that. Most people stop their affairs when they get caught.16 = still a minor, regardless of AOC. And your last line ignores this:
McCutchan had even testified that if her sexual escapades with students had not been found out by her husband, she would have continued with them.
I still don't see what's worthy of 15yrs in jail from what has been put out in the public. There are details missing from the story that would convince/push me to the side of it being a fair sentence, but they're not there. Fucking your daughters BF is messed up but if he's above the age of consent then where's the crime? She did not upload the sex tapes on the net (so it's not a federal crime), so I don't see where the crime is in that. "Involving her daughter in sex acts" is vague as hell, give me facts. She had a 3some w/her daughter? Where's the incest charges? Her daughter filmed them? She filmed her daughter and her BF? I just need facts. What was on the sex tapes, were the 16yr olds blacked out and then she got on top of them? She gave them alcohol, how much alcohol, are we talking a beer or 151 proof? It wouldn't surprise me if the judge was just personally disgusted by her behavior and threw the book at her.
I don't see what is damning about her admitting that. Most people stop their affairs when they get caught.
I don't think this is true. She could have been charged with possession of CP as well as creating it. I don't believe there's a legal requirement that it be distributed in any way. There may be additional charges possible for putting it online but those would be secondary if they exist. She plead guilty to 9 of 29 charges. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those other charges had to do with the videos.
You don't see what's damning about a women having sex with her underage daughters boyfriend, recording it, involving her daughter, and then admitting that the only reason she stopped was because her husband found out? It's pretty simple. She has no regard for her daughters wellbeing or anyone else involved. Her only concern was for herself and given the opportunity she'd do it again.
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