-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Teaching evolution to young Christian skeptics
- Thread starter Stoney Mason
- Start date
- Status
TheExodu5 said:
As someone who was raised a Roman Catholic I can tell you that we aren't taught to interpret Bible literally, specially when it clashes with science. That's why in many countries with a majority of catholics like Spain or Italy there is no major issue teaching evolution in schools.
happyfunball
Member
TheExodu5 said:
If you believe that Santa Claus is real and I tell you otherwise you might cry, but at least you won't be ignorant anymore.
The same applies here. Let the sensitive bitches cry.
Riskbreaker23
Member
i dont think i have met a single person in my life who did not understand at least the basic concept of evolution.
these must have been some really sheltered kids or something.
most people i know and have met believe that God is the driving force of evolution. that he sets things in motion and nudges things down the path that they are suppose to go down.
these must have been some really sheltered kids or something.
most people i know and have met believe that God is the driving force of evolution. that he sets things in motion and nudges things down the path that they are suppose to go down.
Stoney Mason
Banned
TheExodu5 said:
Your anecdotal story about a teacher is not "the way it's generally taught to the public".
I don't think you actually understand religion. Morality is kind of the point.theBishop said:
I don't hink you actually understand science. How things work is what science is concerned, *what to do with that knowledge* is completely irrelevant to science. It is relevant to HUMANS but it isn't relevant to *science*.
As Wernher von Braun said 'Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department'
You are completely dismissing an entire branch of philosophy (metaphysics). Thus I don't think you acutally understand philosophy.
I think I'm coming across as a dick here, I honestly don't mean to but I can't phrase my response differently.
DubloSeven
Member
Are you against children being taught Germ Theory? Physics? Astronomy? Geology?TheExodu5 said:
This is silly.
Xdrive05
Member
TheExodu5 said:
That would be your Deism (or maybe even Theism). Your agnosticism would be telling you that you're not sure either way if something was there to start it all.
Again, watch that video I posted to learn why Intelligent Design is NOT science (which you seem to be glossing over), why evolution IS science, and thus why the latter belongs in science class and not the former.
ManaByte
Gold Member
theBishop said:
Yes, despite all the archeological evidence found supporting the Exodus (not going to get into an argument over the numbers of Israelis involved):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1KVE3995Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc78d6UBJkw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re7xnP_ulwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re7xnP_ulwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MgEOMAyLzc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekox1jZPAAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK7HYWzzNbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K5gWx1NHVc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBas6QyvA8
I think that special also shows the Egyptian royal ring that was found with יוֹסֵף (Joseph/Yosef) engraved on it in addition to all the Exodus evidence.
But Athiests love to ignore that sort of thing.
I very highly recommend anyone who hasn't seen it to watch the episode of NOVA (link below) about the Kitzmiller vs. Dover Area School District lawsuit that the article in the OP references.
Intelligent Design on Trial
I'm genuinely surprised this case turned out the way it did, mostly because the judge in the case was a conservative appointee by Bush. But honestly, the facts speak for themselves. Whether or not you believe in creationism or intelligent design is not important; what's important is that they NOT be taught as science.
Intelligent Design on Trial
I'm genuinely surprised this case turned out the way it did, mostly because the judge in the case was a conservative appointee by Bush. But honestly, the facts speak for themselves. Whether or not you believe in creationism or intelligent design is not important; what's important is that they NOT be taught as science.
PhlegmMaster
Banned
Lots of pushy evolution fanatics in this thread. Why are you so eager to push evolution on other people? What does it matter to you if some people don't accept evolution? It's not like they're going to turn into criminals if they don't accept evolution, are they? What's the harm in letting them remain creationists?
deepbrown said:
Eh? That depends on the Christian. I don't consider myself a Christian, but my mom is sure devout, and I assure you she doesn't pick and choose.
Also, your whole adultery thing is way off....Jesus is the one who stopped the stoning of the women by saying "let him without sin cast the first stone". Even if homosexuality is viewed as a sin, what Jesus said clearly demonstrated that Christians should not be the judge of sin, as Christians are sinners themselves. Those who condemn homosexuals are obviously misinterpretting their religion, and just using it as a moral highground to say they are better than others, which they have no right to say.
Count Dookkake
Member
Azih said:
That's like going to a used car lot, seeing the sign that says "Cheapest in town!!!" and believing it.
Stoney Mason
Banned
PhlegmMaster said:
It's a tarp!
DubloSeven
Member
Hahahah, oh man... Wow.PhlegmMaster said:
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Its interesting how you can actually investigate the creation of the Bible and you can see how people chose certain books to the exclusion of others. You can see how Christians had several favorite myths they circulated as essays inlduded to illustrate certain moral ideas. The Bible was just a handbook, but some people later forgot this. There are alternate tellings of the garden of eden left out of the final Bible (in one book Adam had an earlier wife than Eve!). There are stories about Jesus' early life that were left out because they didn't illustrate the correct morality that Christian fathers wanted to portray as belonging to god.
THEYRE JUST STORES. EARLY CHRISTIANS KNEW THIS. Religious scholars can tell you all about it. Catholic clergy can tell you all about it. Many protestants can tell you all about it (though the definition of a protestant is a Christian who decides things for himself without consensus, and that can include those who interpret it in fundamentalist ways)
Only the uneducated members of Christianity, who know its right but don't know why its right or what it is exactly, maintain fundamentalist beliefs in it. And it's a mistake. Its not religion. It's not Christianity. It's a superstition. It's objectively wrong... even if this religion is potentially correct.
The creation tale is just a story. Creationism is a corruption of incorrect belief in that story. Christianity properly understood says nothing about the possibility of evolution, for or otherwise.
THEYRE JUST STORES. EARLY CHRISTIANS KNEW THIS. Religious scholars can tell you all about it. Catholic clergy can tell you all about it. Many protestants can tell you all about it (though the definition of a protestant is a Christian who decides things for himself without consensus, and that can include those who interpret it in fundamentalist ways)
Only the uneducated members of Christianity, who know its right but don't know why its right or what it is exactly, maintain fundamentalist beliefs in it. And it's a mistake. Its not religion. It's not Christianity. It's a superstition. It's objectively wrong... even if this religion is potentially correct.
The creation tale is just a story. Creationism is a corruption of incorrect belief in that story. Christianity properly understood says nothing about the possibility of evolution, for or otherwise.
No it's like going to a used car lot and understanding the point of the lot is to sell used cars. You might not want to buy a used car, you might think buying used cars is stupid and everybody should travel by public transit, but that's a completely different issue.Count Dookkake said:
DubloSeven said:
I'm not saying I'm opposed to them being taught the theory. However, from the examples I've seen in my life (both my evolutionary biology professor and my 10th grade biology professor) I've noticed that a lot of people tend to use it as a weapon against religion. That is wrong.
On the other hand, I've had a chemistry professor that took a whole lecture to tell people why evolution is wrong and ridiculed it while he boasted about creationism. That's definitely not right either.
It's irrelevant whether it's science or not, because it's a required class. Anyways, all the class needs is some rational teachers such as the one quoted in the OP.
Kestastrophe
Member
Tamanon said:
Spirit of the Law vs. Word of the Law sort of thing.
Mango Positive
Member
TheExodu5 said:
Sorry chap, but the theory of evolution by way of natural selection is not only completely true, but it's the foundation for all of biology, including all advances in medical technology.
You have a problem with evolution, but I bet you don't have a problem taking advantage of all of the benefits that come directly through the broad (total) acceptance of evolution in the scientific community.
Any opposing theory can either show some evidence, thus elevating it from a "stupid hypothesis" to a "theory", or it can shut the hell up. You people are like the Flat Earth Society at this point.
Count Dookkake
Member
Azih said:
You are misunderstanding my point.
Just because a man, a company, a movement or a religion claims to have "The cheapest prices in town!!!" or an exclusive understanding of morality, this doesn't make their claim correct. Accepting the claim is foolish, without investigation.
DubloSeven
Member
While I'm not religious in any way, shape or form, I do agree with you on this point. I think it would be silly to teach someone evolution with the goal in mind of dissuading them that God exists.TheExodu5 said:
You should teach someone about evolution because it's a part of reality and it's the explanation for all the amazing different species we see today. Also, it's highly interesting, cerebral, and rewarding.
Uh, Evolution is far from fact. I accept evolution, because there's not a better theory out there in terms of how life began, but stating that evolution is fact is just ignorant. Science is proving it's case with evolution everyday with more evidence, sure, but there's still some interesting problems with the theory which keeps it from being absolutely true, or "fact."
Azih said:
It's hardly the singular point. Many religions also make ridiculous, baseless claims about how the universe came to be, and what happens when you die.
You are (purposely?) taking a small view of Science. Morality
Philosophy and theology are not equivalent.
Xdrive05
Member
TheExodu5 said:
First sensible thing you've posted yet.
But none of this has anything to do with your implying that Intelligent Design is in any way on equal ground as evolution, or that biology students shouldn't be taught evolution.
Who gives a shit about the religious question with evolution? This is about the science. It shouldn't be used to push a religious agenda, for or against, in the science classroom.
TheExodu5 said:
Your deep ignorance is frightening. Darwin was a Christian.
Intelligent design discusses (or rather refuses to really discuss) abiogenesis.
Abiogenesis is not the same thing as evolution. One can easily believe (like most of our Deist founding fathers) that God created the natural system which then unspooled via a system of predesigned laws. That conception conflicts not at all with evolution. In fact, the ideas complement one another. They answer people's wonders about the complexity of evolution, allowing them to ascribe such complexity to God. A huge number of religious people who don't take their texts as literal science courses believe similarly.
Please, before you torture us further, go read a book or two. Learn, at the very least, what the terms you're using actually mean.
DubloSeven
Member
Evolution is both scientific theory and fact.Game-Biz said:
Bacteria cause illness. This is both a scientific theory and fact.
The Earth revolves around the Sun. This is both a scientific theory and a fact.
See what I'm doing here?
You need to read up on what a scientific theory is.
happyfunball said:
If people wanted an example of someone using it as a weapon against religion, then here you go.
This poster is so ignorant that he knows there is no higher being out there. What's more, he's saying it right now that this evolution class is going to discredit people's beliefs.
If the chance of life evolving from amino acids is one in 10^verybignumber (what, something like 360 or so), then you should have enough respect for probability to realize there's a possibility of something greater than us out there).
PhlegmMaster
Banned
Azih said:
You praise this teacher for attempting to convince his students that evolution is true. The thing is, the students don't want to be convinced, and neither do their parents want their children to be convinced. I'm wondering how someone like you or JayDubya can possibly approve of this guy. Why shouldn't they be free to absent themselves for the few days that evolution is taught in class?
Count Dookkake
Member
Azih said:
Don't be intentionally obtuse. That was what you were responding to in this post...
theBishop said:
Azih said:
Morality is the point of relgion like "LOWEST CAR PRICES" are the point of Sleazy Eddie. It is a claim. That the claim is made has no bearing on reality. Religion can claim to be about morality, but the evidence so far does not support such things. I will continue to look for better deals in other car lots until I find such evidence.
- Status