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Team Fortress 2 Official PC Thread. SO. WORTH. IT.

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Honestly, I liked the old version of Granary better. In a match, yes, scouts and rocket jumping soldiers and sticky bombing demos would get there first, so it was a good strategy to scout rush the middle point. But if you do scout rush, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage elsewhere. If the other team DOESN'T scout rush, you're likely to cap the point first, but then be a little helpless once the main force of the other team arrives. By limiting yourself to too many scouts, it's rather trivial for the other team to push through and recap the point, and have the presence to move onto the next one. That didn't always happen, naturally, but a scout rush isn't always a guaranteed good strategy. When they added the doors, I feel it took away that interesting layer to the map. I personally hope they don't do something similar to Badlands!
 

Twig

Banned
SenseiJinx said:
Honestly, I liked the old version of Granary better. In a match, yes, scouts and rocket jumping soldiers and sticky bombing demos would get there first, so it was a good strategy to scout rush the middle point. But if you do scout rush, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage elsewhere. If the other team DOESN'T scout rush, you're likely to cap the point first, but then be a little helpless once the main force of the other team arrives. By limiting yourself to too many scouts, it's rather trivial for the other team to push through and recap the point, and have the presence to move onto the next one. That didn't always happen, naturally, but a scout rush isn't always a guaranteed good strategy. When they added the doors, I feel it took away that interesting layer to the map. I personally hope they don't do something similar to Badlands!
Well, when all's said and done, people like playing Granary much more now.

I too was a fan of it before. I don't get the complaints. But if adding gates means people will play it occasionally instead of dustbowl/goldrush twenty-four-fucking-seven, then I'm all for it.
 
TheOneGuy said:
Well, when all's said and done, people like playing Granary much more now.

I too was a fan of it before. I don't get the complaints. But if adding gates means people will play it occasionally instead of dustbowl/goldrush twenty-four-fucking-seven, then I'm all for it.

Fair enough. It's not a big enough thing that it bothers me, so if people like it better now, I'm all for it.

Did someone just say a team out of Scouts is helpless in the beginning of Granary?

Nope, I certainly didn't say that. A full team of Scouts is still pretty lame, and really hard to counter. But sending out five Scouts or so wasn't a sure fire way to win in an old game of Granary, and could possibly put you at a disadvantage. Not that it would always, but a smart team could counter it without resorting to Scouts as well!
 

Sciz

Member
TheOneGuy said:
Need more vertical maps. ):
I've had an idea floating around in my head now for a while for a 5 point CP map that consists entirely of a single tall tower. However, my complete lack of 3D mapping experience means it won't ever exist.
 
Doytch said:
Hah, ya I like playing there because of that. Even when I'm playing my best as Pyro, it's tough to keep up with a demo like sm0ke. I'll die and by the time I run back to the front, he's got five points. :lol
Did he get better? Generally sm0ke is nothing to fear...great player, just not as good as say bend. That's really why I always stick to cXg, it's great knowing there's a risk of death with every encounter.
 

Doytch

Member
PillowKnight said:
Did he get better? Generally sm0ke is nothing to fear...great player, just not as good as say bend. That's really why I always stick to cXg, it's great knowing there's a risk of death with every encounter.

He's been really good the last couple days. Don't know if he'll keep it up, but it's been pretty ridiculous.
 

Davidion

Member
PillowKnight said:
Did he get better? Generally sm0ke is nothing to fear...great player, just not as good as say bend. That's really why I always stick to cXg, it's great knowing there's a risk of death with every encounter.

Huh, they're that good eh? Guess I'll stick around for a bit.

I thought I was half asleep last night or something.
 

Capndrake

Member
Sciz said:
I've had an idea floating around in my head now for a while for a 5 point CP map that consists entirely of a single tall tower. However, my complete lack of 3D mapping experience means it won't ever exist.
It's sort of already been done in one of the Orange maps (cp_orange_tower, I think?) and the result is pretty terrible. Almost impossible to advance, every single match I've played on a populated server ended in it going into Sudden Death.
 

Davidion

Member
Capndrake said:
It's sort of already been done in one of the Orange maps (cp_orange_tower, I think?) and the result is pretty terrible. Almost impossible to advance, every single match I've played on a populated server ended in it going into Sudden Death.

Yeah at the end of the day, the game just doesn't work all that well played vertically(except whhhhhoooooaaaa, which is the Cadillac of maps).

But working off of the altitude thing, however, I'd love to see a large map, preferably cp or territory control, that's played on a hill or in a valley. Compensations can be had for the altitude advantage (higher initiative!) in items, respawn times, whatever.

King of the hill, bunker assault; game types like these would be fun in TF2.
 

Twig

Banned
Davidion said:
Yeah at the end of the day, the game just doesn't work all that well played vertically(except whhhhhoooooaaaa, which is the Cadillac of maps).
Badlands works perfectly fine. It's not a tower, but it's certainly a "vertical" map.
 

Davidion

Member
TheOneGuy said:
Badlands works perfectly fine. It's not a tower, but it's certainly a "vertical" map.

Not really, the orientation is still generally horizontal and the honestly, the action is too. There really isn't anywhere in the map where you're forced to address the environments on different altitudes; the map is laid out on different levels, sure, but it's done in such a way where the interactions are still relatively horizontal.

Hell, Gravel Pit is a much better "vertical" map than Badlands.

The hill/valley idea will be different imo because a player will have no choice but to address the vertical orientation.
 

Twig

Banned
Davidion said:
Not really, the orientation is still generally horizontal and the honestly, the action is too. There really isn't anywhere in the map where you're forced to address the environments on different altitudes; the map is laid out on different levels, sure, but it's done in such a way where the interactions are still relatively horizontal.

Hell, Gravel Pit is a much better "vertical" map than Badlands.

The hill/valley idea will be different imo because a player will have no choice but to address the vertical orientation.
Meh. Unless you're a scout, you absolutely HAVE to address the second/fourth point vertically. And there are multiple levels on both the third and last points. (And first point, but it's the same as the last point, lolz.)

Gravelpit is another awesome map, though.

Badlands is vertical whether you like it or not! It just also happens to be wider than it is tall.
 

Davidion

Member
TheOneGuy said:
Meh. Unless you're a scout, you absolutely HAVE to address the second/fourth point vertically. And there are multiple levels on both the third and last points. (And first point, but it's the same as the last point, lolz.)

Gravelpit is another awesome map, though.

Badlands is vertical whether you like it or not! It just also happens to be wider than it is tall.

That's one point in the whole map. Even then there are two platforms stationed on either ends of the point.

Plus I'm always a soldier on approach to those so nine times out of ten it's as easy as jumping. :lol

You are wrong, and I'm going to set you on fire.
 
Just started playing TF2 on PC recently after getting hooked on it through renting the PS3 version multiple times and I can't believe how vastly different experience is. The console version definitely does not suck. It just isn't as good as the PC version. I'm not just talking about the patched content either. The pace is quicker. Snipers are actually deadly and there's actually teamwork in pug games (at least compared to the PS3 version where no one talks. I dunno if that's the case on the 360 version). If you enjoy TF2 on consoles, you owe it to yourself to at least try it on PC.
 

Jcdragon

Member
After enjoying a couple of free weekends on TF2, I finally decided it was time to buy the game. So I've been playing on and off for about a week or two and I still pretty much suck. I'm pretty much a complete noob when it comes to PC FPS. I used to play CS and Halo back in school, but was never that good at any of them. Any tips on what classes I should play with? Or just basic things on how to improve my game?
 

Volcynika

Member
Jcdragon said:
After enjoying a couple of free weekends on TF2, I finally decided it was time to buy the game. So I've been playing on and off for about a week or two and I still pretty much suck. I'm pretty much a complete noob when it comes to PC FPS. I used to play CS and Halo back in school, but was never that good at any of them. Any tips on what classes I should play with? Or just basic things on how to improve my game?

Well, beginning wise, I'd suggest Scout (since he's nimble and quick) or Soldier. They seem to be the most popular classes for new people. These are some general tips to learn to do with the classes I've played as, in my opinion.

Scout - Learn to double jump and dodge, but keep an eye out for sentries, they'll tear you up. Very useful for capping points though.

Pyro - While he seems like the rush class, don't go in blindly, and work to get the jump on people.

Engineer - Learn to build your stuff quickly, learn good building placement, etc. Learn to spy check and keep an eye out.

Medic - Help your teammates, and watch your back for spies. If all else fails, go down fighting. DON'T just latch onto a Heavy and think you're going to be ok. Spread out your healing, and uber the person that seems best for the situation at hand.

Sniper - Learn to follow enemies, and make sure you keep an eye out for spies. If you have consistent bouts of lag, you will surely lose any sniper battles, so it might not be a good choice.

Soldier - Make his ammo count. His lower rocket amount makes it that much more important to not waste stuff.

Those are just a few general things, others can elaborate. Oh, and learn to figure out how each class fares against the others, it'll help you in deciding whether you can hold your own in a 1 on 1 battle.
 

Capndrake

Member
Jcdragon said:
After enjoying a couple of free weekends on TF2, I finally decided it was time to buy the game. So I've been playing on and off for about a week or two and I still pretty much suck. I'm pretty much a complete noob when it comes to PC FPS. I used to play CS and Halo back in school, but was never that good at any of them. Any tips on what classes I should play with? Or just basic things on how to improve my game?
For my most played classes (Oh god walls of text):

Demoman: Lay traps all the time. If an enemy is giving chase and you turn a corner, instantly put a sticky on the floor/wall when you turn it and detonate if/when the enemy turns it as well. Don't rely too much on the grenade launcher during combat, it should only be used if your target is standing completely still (And preferrably doesn't notice you), or if there's a large cluster of enemies. Grenade launcher's primary use is to just blindly fire around corners or over walls and hope you hit something (Remember, grenades bounce). Sticky jumps cover huge distances if you crouch for a split second before jumping, but they take off half your health, so don't use them too much (Best used if you have a medic healing you or you'll land near a health pack). Remember that you're also the best class for taking out sentries as you can dish out a ton of damage in one hit. Best way to do it is to shoot stickies around a corner so that they land right next to the sentry, and then detonate them. You'll probably also frequently get ubered.

Engineer: Spycheck everything, never leave your back uncovered. Don't think you're safe by sitting on top of your dispenser/sentry and crouching, because good spies will know that they can just crouch jump on top of you and stab you from above. It's best to stand a little bit away from your sentry (But not in a spot where you can be taken out from elsewhere without the sentry seeing your assailant, obviously). If you're on the offense, try throwing down sentries in unexpected spots (For example, if you're on Gravelpit, throw down one under the metal balcony near B, when your team is capturing B it will almost certainly kill at least one or two people provided they don't notice it). Also, ALWAYS have a teleporter up if you're on offense. If you're on defense and a spy manages to get your teleporter entrance, don't go back to place a new one unless you have another Engineer watching your sentry, because I guarantee it will be sapped/destroyed while you're gone.

Medic: Heal everybody. Don't just stick to one person, if you pass somebody else just give them a quick boost so they temporarily have some extra health to use, it will help in the long run. Always look out for spies and alert your partner if you see one while you attempt to take him out, especially if your parnet's a heavy. Keep moving and jumping around randomly, so that in the event that you don't notice a spy, there is a chance he'll miss his backstab. As for unlocks: Blutsauger is a must (If you're being assaulted by a scout, pyro, engineer, medic or sniper, USE IT, against spies you might want to use the Ubersaw if you have it for some free charge, against anybody else, just run away). Kritzkrieg is terrible (I don't see anybody using it anymore) and the Ubersaw really only improves on the Bonesaw, so use it as well.

Sniper: Scouts, engineers, medics, snipers and spies will all die with one headshot (Any % charge) or a fully charged shot on the body, so always just go for a quick headshot. If a scout is being incredibly frantic with his movement, then wait for a full charge and just try to get a bodyshot. For any other class except Heavy (And without a medic), charge to 50% to kill (With a headshot, even with a 100% bodyshot they won't die if at full health). For a heavy, you'll have to charge to about 70%, and for any class with a medic, wait for 100%. If you're trying to shoot a target with a medic, kill the medic first, if you kill their patient first, the medic will instantly notice you and run away, while if you kill the medic first, their patient probably won't notice you. Any class being buffed by a medic will only die with a headshot. If there are enemy snipers around, after dispatching them once or twice, switch places to throw them off. They'll probably expect you to stay in the same spot, but in reality, you'll be elsewhere. You're also excellent at taking out buildings - A fully charged shot destroys a level 1 sentry, dispenser or teleporter, and deals about 80-90% damage to a level 2 or 3 sentry. If the engineer is repairing, destroy his dispenser, and then just whittle away his metal while he keeps repairing your shots on his sentry, until you can take it down.

Spy: Always disguise correctly depending on the situation. If you're going to take out sentries disguise as engineer, if you're going for snipers disguise as sniper. At any other time your best bets are pyro and demoman. Remember that your speed will change accordingly to the class you're disguised as (Except medic and scout, who are both faster than normal), so you'll want to avoid disguising as soldier/heavy most of the time. Never disguise as medic, and only disguise as scout around CPs. Don't rely on your disguise to go by undetected, as there's a metric ton of different ways for the other team to see that you're a spy, so if they have any experience at all you'll die as soon as they see you. Use cloak to get past groups of enemies, sap sentries if your team is near so they can destroy it easily, backstab enemies while they're distracted by the rest of your team, and cloak as soon as you've stabbed to get away.

If you're being chased while uncloaked, turn around a corner, cloak, and then instantly go back around the corner and pass by the person who's chasing you, he'll probably continue in the direction he thinks you were heading. Remember that the revolver is actually pretty damn powerful, especially if it crits (One crit + one normal shot will kill any class with 125 health), so if there's no escape use it and hope you get lucky. As a spy you're also excellent for capping stuff, you can grab the intel easily by running in cloaked (Even if you do it just to extend the time it stays on the ground). You're perfect for sneakily capturing the final point on Well, Badlands or Dustbowl as the cap time for those is incredibly short. The spy is pretty much the most difficult class to be good at, watch this as well: http://www.vimeo.com/1373245?pg=embed&sec=1373245
 

Twig

Banned
Capndrake said:
Don't rely too much on the grenade launcher during combat, it should only be used if your target is standing completely still (And preferrably doesn't notice you), or if there's a large cluster of enemies.
Don't listen to this man.

He just fails at the grenade launcher.
 

Twig

Banned
Capndrake said:
Well, ok, it's good against heavies as well, but in any other situation I mostly find it less effective than stickies.
Again.

Failure.

On non-bad days, I can hit a scout zig-zagging around like a maniac. With practice, you can, too!
 

Won

Member
Capndrake said:
Spy: Always disguise correctly depending on the situation. If you're going to take out sentries disguise as engineer, if you're going for snipers disguise as sniper. At any other time your best bets are pyro and demoman. Remember that your speed will change accordingly to the class you're disguised as (Except medic and scout, who are both faster than normal), so you'll want to avoid disguising as soldier/heavy most of the time. Never disguise as medic, and only disguise as scout around CPs. Don't rely on your disguise to go by undetected, as there's a metric ton of different ways for the other team to see that you're a spy, so if they have any experience at all you'll die as soon as they see you. Use cloak to get past groups of enemies, sap sentries if your team is near so they can destroy it easily, backstab enemies while they're distracted by the rest of your team, and cloak as soon as you've stabbed to get away.

If you're being chased while uncloaked, turn around a corner, cloak, and then instantly go back around the corner and pass by the person who's chasing you, he'll probably continue in the direction he thinks you were heading. Remember that the revolver is actually pretty damn powerful, especially if it crits (One crit + one normal shot will kill any class with 125 health), so if there's no escape use it and hope you get lucky. As a spy you're also excellent for capping stuff, you can grab the intel easily by running in cloaked (Even if you do it just to extend the time it stays on the ground). You're perfect for sneakily capturing the final point on Well, Badlands or Dustbowl as the cap time for those is incredibly short. The spy is pretty much the most difficult class to be good at, watch this as well: http://www.vimeo.com/1373245?pg=embed&sec=1373245

People still do that "disguise depending on situation stuff"?

And don't watch the video...where is the fun, if everything is shown to you? -.-

Also grenade launcher > "Winbombs". You can do some neat stuff with them, but yeah using stickies is easier so all sucky players use them. :p
 

Won

Member
I always have a good laugh with Demomen, who run away and put stickies on the ground......what a fucking waste of time. One grenade and I'm dead.....you have 4.....USE THEM!
 
Won said:
I always have a good laugh with Demomen, who run away and put stickies on the ground......what a fucking waste of time. One grenade and I'm dead.....you have 4.....USE THEM!
Reloading takes a long time! I'd finish counting the stars before I could count the number of times i've switched to a grenade launcher with nothing in the clip. I disagree regardless though, piping someone is riskier, since there's no push back as with the stickies.
 

Won

Member
PillowKnight said:
Reloading takes a long time! I'd finish counting the stars before I count the number of times i've switched to a grenade launcher with nothing in the clip.

What? Does your launcher start with 0 grenades? You obviously still work with both weapons, like with every other class. :p
 

VaLiancY

Member
For a soldier, learn to rocket jump properly, that means know when to do it so you get the upper hand, it will save your life. If you get ambushed by a Pyro, jump your ass out of there. And don't neglect the shotgun, two rockets followed up with a shotgun blast will ruin just about anyone's day and you have enough to retreat or fire more. When you get more adept to the class, you'll smile when you hit enemies dead on with rockets. :D
 

Jcdragon

Member
Wow, just wow. Thanks!

I really wasn't expecting any real replies that fast! I'm really grateful! GAF delivers.

I'll try some of those tips out next time I play. But Yea excellent writeups Volcynika and especially Capndrake.

Oh and I'm pretty sure I played a couple of rounds with some of you GAF guys.

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So any other things I should know about?

Oh yea and awesome Brook avatar Won! Is that from the latest colorspread?
 

Sciz

Member
Jcdragon said:
So any other things I should know about?
-Experiment with crouch-jumping. There are all kinds of little shortcuts you can take thanks to the extra height.
-If you can't run through a teammate, he's a spy. Kill him.
-Each class has a secondary and melee weapon for a reason. Learn when to use them.
-Following around the guys who're leading the scoreboard is a good way to learn tricks and tactics.
 

Volcynika

Member
Sciz said:
-Experiment with crouch-jumping. There are all kinds of little shortcuts you can take thanks to the extra height.
-If you can't run through a teammate, he's a spy. Kill him.
-Each class has a secondary and melee weapon for a reason. Learn when to use them.
-Following around the guys who're leading the scoreboard is a good way to learn tricks and tactics.

Another mention about the spy. Spies are always seen carrying the default weapon of that class. For example, if you see an engineer with a wrench or a scout with a bat, no chance of them being a spy.
 

firex

Member
Or anyone with their secondary.

Plus part of the reason you see very little medic disguising is you don't see an Ubercharge % on the spy when you mouse over them, although that can be easy to lose track of in a big crowd.
 

Oldschoolgamer

The physical form of blasphemy
Played like 2 rounds. The first one I was basically useless. The second one I got like 13 right off of the bat. Tried to switch to full screen and it crashed, and the server was full when I tried to join back in. Besides, I'm still to sick to play. My reflexes are ass atm. :/
 
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