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[dallow_bg]

Apparently the A1E has the option for some kind of black frame insertion to help the motion resolution. How much it affects the brightness we will see.

Can't wait to see fulls review for it.

Maybe I misheard but I thought that video posted a little ago said there was no VESA wall mount.

I'm not sure if a VESA standard holes are confirmed but you can wall mount it with the stand shutting closed against the back of the TV. (note that the stand houses the electronics/ports)

 

[Theonik]

What I really don't get is why the LG W7 has that enormous sound bar with fake Atmos that is required to use the TV. It is even higher end than the Sony. I understand that they include the TV's electronics in there too, but presumably if you didn't want the soundbar it could be done in a much more compact package. Plus you could conceivably make it cheaper if they wanted to do a Samsung-like program of allowing people to upgrade the electronics.

You are making the assumption that they can be made much smaller or cheaper. They can't sell the TV without the box and they can't really sell a TV that expensive without speakers especially not one like the wallpaper because the whole appeal is it being compact and the design of the unit itself. So, the speaker version is the one they think more likely to sell. And the W7 is a low volume product already, adding an extra SKU would be really expensive logistically.

 

[tokkun]

You are making the assumption that they can be made much smaller or cheaper. They can't sell the TV without the box and they can't really sell a TV that expensive without speakers especially not one like the wallpaper because the whole appeal is it being compact and the design. So, the speaker version is the one they think more likely to sell. And the W7 is a low volume product already, adding an extra SKU would be really expensive logistically.

I am quite confident they could be made smaller without including all those speakers or needing it to be the length of the TV to achieve channel separation.

You're right that it is less clear that it would be cheaper, but that's probably less of an issue for someone paying W7 prices to begin with. If multiple SKUs is a logistical problem they should have dumped the soundbar version. If someone really wants to use a crappy soundbar with their uber-expensive display, let them buy a third-party one.

 

[shantyman]

I am in the exact same boat. My Panny Plasma just died and I don't know what to buy. It seems like everything is reviewed for dark rooms / ideal conditions which isn't my situation at all. I am dealing with light sources in every possible use case, and my living room gets extremely bright during the day, even with my blackout curtains. I am not willing to seal my windows to get a dark room.

At this moment (it changes a lot) I am trying to decide between the x930d, x900e, and B6. The current bargain basement price of the KS8000 is tempting as well.

 

[KevinG]

At this moment (it changes a lot) I am trying to decide between the x930d, x900e, and B6. The current bargain basement price of the KS8000 is tempting as well.

B6.

OLED.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I just bought the Sony 900e from Bhphoto.com for 1198 with no tax and a 60 dollar gift card thrown in for free. I hope this is not a bad idea. I only read one review and have never seen the set.

 

[finalflame]

At this moment (it changes a lot) I am trying to decide between the x930d, x900e, and B6. The current bargain basement price of the KS8000 is tempting as well.

I'm in the same boat, but it's really hard to pick anything but the B6 with the X series being edge-lit. I wish Sony made a 55" Z9D. I'm terrified of LG's shit motion handling and ABL, though :/

A1E is the only set that can potentially address all these issues but .. no reviews yet and that price is hard to swallow with HDMI 2.1 on the horizon.

 

[holygeesus]

I'm in the same boat, but it's really hard to pick anything but the B6 with the X series being edge-lit. I wish Sony made a 55" Z9D. I'm terrified of LG's shit motion handling and ABL, though :/

Stop believing internet myths then.It's nothing to be afraid of. LG's motion handling isn't at all 'shit' and ABL isn't an issue unless you blow out contrast so as you are clipping white detail anyway.

 

[Lima]

ABL is definitely a concern. Especially if you like a bright image (this has nothing to do with blowing out contrast, it has to do with the Oled light setting) and want to use it for HDR gaming. I'd say it's more of an issue with HDR gaming though than movies or tv shows.

Over the years of my Plasma journey (Pioneer 600M, Pana VT50 and ZT60) I've learned to live with it and Plasmas were certainly more problematic in this regard but it is an issue on the current LG E6 I own. It's one of the reasons I actually consider getting a B or C7 (E6 should have a good reason value due to 3D).

 

[holygeesus]

ABL is definitely a concern. Especially if you like a bright image (this has nothing to do with blowing out contrast, it has to do with the Oled light setting) and want to use it for HDR gaming. I'd say it's more of an issue with HDR gaming though than movies or tv shows.

You can work OLED Light and Contrast in tandem though, to such a degree as to make ABL non-existent unless deliberately looking for it. I have never seen it during normal use.

FWIW - my contrast is 84 and Oled Light is 67 and it melts my eyes in a dark room. Plenty of headroom left.

 

[Lima]

Play The Witness in HDR.

 

[Yawnny]

You can work OLED Light and Contrast in tandem though, to such a degree as to make ABL non-existent unless deliberately looking for it. I have never seen it during normal use.

FWIW - my contrast is 84 and Oled Light is 67 and it melts my eyes in a dark room. Plenty of headroom left.

This is my experience as well.. my Oled is 45 and Contrast 95.. don't notice ABL.. in ISF Dark Room Picture Mode.

I don't experience ABL anymore. I did when I first set up the TV.. I can't even remember what the stock settings were.. but all the processing/"enhancement" stuff was on that I turned off

 

[Theonik]

I am quite confident they could be made smaller without including all those speakers or needing it to be the length of the TV to achieve channel separation.

You're right that it is less clear that it would be cheaper, but that's probably less of an issue for someone paying W7 prices to begin with. If multiple SKUs is a logistical problem they should have dumped the soundbar version. If someone really wants to use a crappy soundbar with their uber-expensive display, let them buy a third-party one.

The whole appeal of this TV is the sound bar and specifically contains everything in one unit.

 

[TheBoss1]

I'm in the same boat, but it's really hard to pick anything but the B6 with the X series being edge-lit. I wish Sony made a 55" Z9D. I'm terrified of LG's shit motion handling and ABL, though :/

A1E is the only set that can potentially address all these issues but .. no reviews yet and that price is hard to swallow with HDMI 2.1 on the horizon.

The X900E and X940E are NOT edge-lit.

 

[vpance]

If you don't have OLED light at 100 in HDR are you not doing it wrong?

Of course you will not notice ABL as much if you don't use the full range brightness for the display. With SDR this isn't much of an issue.

 

[finalflame]

The X900E is NOT edge-lit, it is FALD.

Really? Well shit, this just got a LOT more interesting.

 

[Yappadappadu]

I think the term "direct led" would be correct since FALD has more zones.

 

[Lima]

If you don't have OLED light at 100 in HDR are you not doing it wrong?

Of course you will not notice ABL as much if you don't use the full range brightness for the display. With SDR this isn't much of an issue.

They are talking about SDR.

Even in SDR ABL can be easily observed if you go for 120-150 cd/m2 in a dark room. Put on a South Park episode, actually put on Stick of Truth or a flat format animation film.

 

[Theonik]

Really? Well shit, this just got a LOT more interesting.

Basically Sony's range is as follows iirc:
XE90 - FALD, not that many zones
XE93 - Edge Lit, local dimming ~40 zones
XE94 - FALD more Zones

 

[tokkun]

The whole appeal of this TV is the sound bar and specifically contains everything in one unit.

If the target audience are people who care neither for decor nor sound quality, why not just go all-in and put it in a Billy Bass?

The correct decision would have been to put the electronics in a similar form factor to an AVR, so it could sit discreetly inside an electronics cabinet.

 

[vpance]

Really? Well shit, this just got a LOT more interesting.

It's FALD but obviously not a crazy good one for those prices. FWIW it has 35 zones.

They are talking about SDR.

Even in SDR ABL can be easily observed if you go for 120-150 cd/m2 in a dark room. Put on a South Park episode, actually put on Stick of Truth or a flat format animation film.

Oh I don't doubt it. It just becomes less of an issue in SDR compared to HDR.

 

[dallow_bg]

I don't have OLED light at 100 in HDR.
Too damn bright.

 

[sector4]

I don't have OLED light at 100 in HDR.
Too damn bright.

I'm the total opposite, the Z9D goes into full brightness during HDR, and I love it haha! In a pitch black room with HDR on, it's a sight to behold.

 

[Yawnny]

What does setting the LG B6 to 'PC' mode actually do? (ie: Changing input name to PC, etc..).

People say it is the only way to get 4:4:4:4 chroma.. which as I understand it is better color?

I still have my PC hooked up and treated as HDMI and it looks spectacular in 4K.. but will running it as 'PC' improve things further?

I don't know how much these different chroma subsampling modes have an effect on things..

 

[Theonik]

If the target audience are people who care neither for decor nor sound quality, why not just go all-in and put it in a Billy Bass?

The correct decision would have been to put the electronics in a similar form factor to an AVR, so it could sit discreetly inside an electronics cabinet.

Having money and good taste are not linked together. Think of people who buy Bose speakers.

 

[finalflame]

Basically Sony's range is as follows iirc:
XE90 - FALD, not that many zones
XE93 - Edge Lit, local dimming ~40 zones
XE94 - FALD more Zones

It's FALD but obviously not a crazy good one for those prices. FWIW it has 35 zones.

And the XE940E is only 75"... :/

I guess what I really wish existed is a 55" Z9D or for the A1E to be $1k cheaper or have HDMI2.1.

I really don't want to go back to a KS8000, but ..

 

[Lima]

I'm the total opposite, the Z9D goes into full brightness during HDR, and I love it haha! In a pitch black room with HDR on, it's a sight to behold.

I would have bought the Sony ZD9 if not for the subpar input lag. It's the best display released last year. It's fucking crazy how many dimming zones it has and how good their processing is at eliminating any halo effects. I still remember how FALD looked in 2008 when I bought my Samsung A959 LCD. Their flagship at the time with I believe like 64 dimming zones. It was certainly impressive but the halo effects and high input lag were killing me. As such it's life in my home was short lived and replaced in 2010 by a Pioneer KRP-600M (to this day still the best display I have ever owned).

I was watching Pan in HDR at a friends house. I was sad when I went back home and watched it on my LG E6. Looked like some dim dull shit. OLED has a long way to go for HDR and I'm not sure they will be able to ever catch up in nits. I blame the fucking EU. If it weren't for their stupid energy labels technology would be further ahead.

Like imagine this shot from Sunshine on a Sony ZD9 if they ever remastered that movie in HDR.

You would probably need sunglasses to watch this scene at max light output.

 

[holygeesus]

Play The Witness in HDR.

Have done many times and never noticed it. I don't know what to say. I guess it is one of those things you either notice or you don't. I'm hardly an apologist for this tech - I have quite a few issues that can be improved on, but thankfully ABL has never been a problem for me, thankfully.

I *do* however see image retention in The Witness. The single time I've noticed that while gaming.

 

[Lima]

Turn you camera up to the sky and you will see it. Ignorance is bliss though. I mean there are people who can't see screen tearing and shit. Sometimes I wish I would be one of those people.

 

[dallow_bg]

I honestly can't believe that it's supposed to be that bright.
It almost seems counterintuitive to what reference PQ should be. Perhaps I have to get used to it.

Planet Earth II is due soon so I hope to give it some good non-streaming tests.

 

[vpance]

And the XE940E is only 75"... :/

I guess what I really wish existed is a 55" Z9D or for the A1E to be $1k cheaper or have HDMI2.1.

I really don't want to go back to a KS8000, but ..

Well a C/B7 will be like a cheaper A1E.. We don't even know if it will be worth the Sony premium. But if there really is magic no dimming BFI then yes.

 

[Lima]

Well a C/B7 will be like a cheaper A1E.. We don't even know if it will be worth the Sony premium. But if there really is magic no dimming BFI then yes.

I mean they will have better motion processing as their motion flow stuff has always been less offensive as other manufacturers but forget BFI, especially on OLEDs. They are not bright enough. Heck even on a ZD9 using BFI makes the picture so dim that it barely reaches 100 nits with max backlight.

The only manufacturer who does BFI correctly is Samsung at the moment.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Apparently the A1E has the option for some kind of black frame insertion to help the motion resolution. How much it affects the brightness we will see.

Can't wait to see fulls review for it.

It'll mainly be for SDR only, but because the screen can get pretty bright, it will mitigate the dimness that BFI brings, could be an great option for SDR viewing.

 

[Rodin]

Reading the RTINGS review of the Samsung Q7, they make it look like trash in several areas (in some cases even worse than last year's models). Is it really not a good step up from the 2016 series?

 

[wege12]

Wishing LG would have done more for the motion resolution on the b6 OLED. It bothers me quite a bit but especially while gaming. But I'm not sure I would give up the perfect black levels and infinite contrast by going to a high end LCD with back frame insertion.

Not sure what to do. Might just keep my b6 since I got it for $1,100 and wait a few years until affordable OLEDs fix the motion issue. But still I'm not sure.

What are your guys thoughts on 2016 LG OLED motion issues and/or settings you use to mitigate it?

 

[vpance]

I mean they will have better motion processing as their motion flow stuff has always been less offensive as other manufacturers but forget BFI, especially on OLEDs. They are not bright enough. Heck even on a ZD9 using BFI makes the picture so dim that it barely reaches 100 nits with max backlight.

The only manufacturer who does BFI correctly is Samsung at the moment.

It'll mainly be for SDR only, but because the screen can get pretty bright, it will mitigate the dimness that BFI brings, could be an great option for SDR viewing.

Samsung does it well, but these new Philips OLEDs have implemented it somehow with no noticeable artifacts and dimming:

The first big improvement is onscreen motion. Not only does the 55POS901 handle slow panning shots from 24p movies smoothly without excessive judder, the TV also offers a truly remarkable Perfect Clear Motion setting that improves motion clarity (in fact, motion resolution more than doubles from 300 to 650 lines) without introducing visible interpolation artefacts, or adding an overly smoothed soap opera effect. Amazingly, there aren’t even any of the usual side effects to black frame insertion/backlight strobing, such as visible flicker or drop in screen brightness. We watched plenty of football on the Philips 901, and the display delivered the clearest artefact-free motion we’ve seen from a 4K OLED television to date.

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/philips-0/1405696/philips-55pos901f-review-the-best-4k-oled-tv-yet

Engaging [Perfect Clear Motion] was far more useful, boosting motion resolution (as determined via Chapter 31 of the FPD Benchmark Software test disc) from the sample-and-hold baseline of 300 lines to 650 lines. Running our torture tests, we couldn’t detect any interpolation artefacts or SOE, and there’s no visible flicker and drop in light output that are normally associated with black frame insertion (BFI) either.

We’re still investigating how TP Vision/ Philips has achieved this, but from watching many football matches on the 55POS901, it delivered the sharpest, artefact-free motion we’ve witnessed from a 4K OLED television to date. Some LCD-based displays from Samsung and Sony could reach a motion resolution of 1080 lines (or higher) with the help of BFI +/- interpolation, but OLED’s near-instantaneous pixel response time meant that there’s no dark-coloured smearing (which can affect VA-type LCD panels) at all.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/55pos901f-201702274433.htm

 

[BumRush]

Wishing LG would have done more for the motion resolution on the b6 OLED. It bothers me quite a bit but especially while gaming. But I'm not sure I would give up the perfect black levels and infinite contrast by going to a high end LCD with back frame insertion.

Not sure what to do. Might just keep my b6 since I got it for $1,100 and wait a few years until affordable OLEDs fix the motion issue. But still I'm not sure.

What are your guys thoughts on 2016 LG OLED motion issues and/or settings you use to mitigate it?

How bad is the motion resolution?

 

[Theonik]

Samsung does it well, but these new Philips OLEDs have implemented it somehow with no noticeable artifacts and dimming:



http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/philips-0/1405696/philips-55pos901f-review-the-best-4k-oled-tv-yet



http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/55pos901f-201702274433.htm

Bear in mind, SDR content is significantly less bright than what these sets can be capable of.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Samsung does it well, but these new Philips OLEDs have implemented it somehow with no noticeable artifacts and dimming:



http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/philips-0/1405696/philips-55pos901f-review-the-best-4k-oled-tv-yet



http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/55pos901f-201702274433.htm

That's very interesting.

 

[BossDarkseid]

Is the KS8000 Calibration thread largely applicable to KS9000 or is there a particular difference?

 

[wege12]

How bad is the motion resolution?

Technically speaking, it's 300 lines without trumotion on and 600 with it on. But personally, it's pretty blurry. I mean it still a great TV, but the fact that it's 4k and so detailed when displaying a still frame that it almost makes it more noticeable.

 

[Lima]

Is the KS8000 Calibration thread largely applicable to KS9000 or is there a particular difference?

No. First off there is hardly any "calibration" done in these threads and you can't even share settings for the exact same Tv due to the side variances in panels.

 

[Art Vandilay]

Wishing LG would have done more for the motion resolution on the b6 OLED. It bothers me quite a bit but especially while gaming. But I'm not sure I would give up the perfect black levels and infinite contrast by going to a high end LCD with back frame insertion.

Not sure what to do. Might just keep my b6 since I got it for $1,100 and wait a few years until affordable OLEDs fix the motion issue. But still I'm not sure.

What are your guys thoughts on 2016 LG OLED motion issues and/or settings you use to mitigate it?

I set de-judder to 2 and de-blur to 0. No issues since then, at least as of yet.

I'm also in ISF dark with OLED at 48, contrast at 80, brightness at 50. Color temp is at warm 1. Looks great to me, but may tweak a bit more.

 

[Metalingus5150]

I would have bought the Sony ZD9 if not for the subpar input lag. It's the best display released last year. It's fucking crazy how many dimming zones it has and how good their processing is at eliminating any halo effects. I still remember how FALD looked in 2008 when I bought my Samsung A959 LCD. Their flagship at the time with I believe like 64 dimming zones. It was certainly impressive but the halo effects and high input lag were killing me. As such it's life in my home was short lived and replaced in 2010 by a Pioneer KRP-600M (to this day still the best display I have ever owned).

I was watching Pan in HDR at a friends house. I was sad when I went back home and watched it on my LG E6. Looked like some dim dull shit. OLED has a long way to go for HDR and I'm not sure they will be able to ever catch up in nits. I blame the fucking EU. If it weren't for their stupid energy labels technology would be further ahead.

Like imagine this shot from Sunshine on a Sony ZD9 if they ever remastered that movie in HDR.

You would probably need sunglasses to watch this scene at max light output.

Would needing sunglasses to watch your TV be desirable tho? lol

 

[BriareosGAF]

People say it is the only way to get 4:4:4:4 chroma.. which as I understand it is better color?
...
I don't know how much these different chroma subsampling modes have an effect on things..

So it's actually pretty straightforward once you lay it out, c.f. Chroma subsampling.

The encoding is J:a:b, where J is the reference pixel width, usually 4, and a is the number of chroma sample changes in the horizontal direction per J pixels, and b is the number of chroma sample changes in the vertical direction, e.g. between each row.

So 4:4:4 means you have a distinct luminance and distinct chrominance values for each pixel; this is essentially just a different color encoding from standard RGB per pixel but with the same information density.

4:2:2 means you have a distinct luminance value per pixel, but chrominance is only sampled every other pixel, so you effectively halve the horizontal resolution of the image in the chrominance space. Since our eyes are less sensitive to chrominance than luminance this is often imperceptible in many image processing and signal domains.

There are other modalities that are less well known (like 4:2:0 where there are no vertical changes in chrominance between each row, e.g. the vertical resolution is halved as well as the horizontal) but they all follow this basic pattern.

Would needing sunglasses to watch your TV be desirable tho? lol

I saw full blast 2000 nit reference monitors when we were onsite at MSFT and it is not pleasant.

 

[Yawnny]

So it's actually pretty straightforward once you lay it out, c.f. Chroma subsampling.

The encoding is J:a:b, where J is the reference pixel width, usually 4, and a is the number of chroma sample changes in the horizontal direction per J pixels, and b is the number of chroma sample changes in the vertical direction, e.g. between each row.

So 4:4:4 means you have a distinct luminance and distinct chrominance values for each pixel; this is essentially just a different color encoding from standard RGB per pixel but with the same information density.

4:2:2 means you have a distinct luminance value per pixel, but chrominance is only sampled every other pixel, so you effectively halve the horizontal resolution of the image in the chrominance space. Since our eyes are less sensitive to chrominance than luminance this is often imperceptible in many image processing and signal domains.

There are other modalities that are less well known (like 4:2:0 where there are no vertical changes in chrominance between each row, e.g. the vertical resolution is halved as well as the horizontal) but they all follow this basic pattern.

Appreciate the explanatio. So is this the only difference when in PC mode?

 

[HStallion]

I saw full blast 2000 nit reference monitors when we were onsite at MSFT and it is not pleasant.

Isn't the eventual aim something like 10K nits?

 

[Lima]

Would needing sunglasses to watch your TV be desirable tho? lol

That's the end goal we are working towards to yes. Dolby has a 4000 nits monitor for mastering and their end goal is 10000 nits. Sure that is not literally bright enough that you need sunglasses but if there is a daytime shot with a bright sun, the sun should be so bright that it should be uncomfortable to directly look at it. You know just like in real life.

 

[Yawnny]

How bad is the motion resolution?

I have no idea what the previous poster is experiencing. .been loving my B6 the last two days of owning it.. played 480P, 720P, 1080P, UHD movies.. Wii U, X360, PS3, PC with 980Ti, and PS4 Pro..

No motion issues detected to my eyes whatsoever.

This is why I'm glad I just bit the bullet and bought the B6 so I could see it all for myself. Get all peoples impressions out of my mind and just form my own.

Couldn't be happier.

 

[reKon]

https://www.costco.com/Samsung-65"-...-LCD-TV-UN65KS800DFXZA.product.100289903.html

I see a purchase in the future soon... (maybe today)