Tencent has paid USD 80 million to acquire 15.75% of Arrowhead Game Studios (Studio is valued at USD 532 million)

Topher said:
What is Sony doing?
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Topher said:
What is Sony doing?
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Sitting on their asses. Idiots, I swear.

They want GaaS games, have been acquiring unproven GaaS studios (Haven, Firewalk), and are not acquiring a proven GaaS studio with one of the most successful games in recent history.

You can't write a better comedy than this.
 
Heisenberg007 said:
Sitting on their asses. Idiots, I swear.

They want GaaS games, have been acquiring unproven GaaS studios (Haven, Firewalk), and are not acquiring a proven GaaS studio with one of the most successful games in recent history.

You can't write a better comedy than this.
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And there were reports helldivers 2 sold 11.5 million on steam. So dumb. Sony you've had a 2nd party agreement since the 1st game, what are you doing?
 
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Heisenberg007 said:
Sitting on their asses. Idiots, I swear.

They want GaaS games, have been acquiring unproven GaaS studios (Haven, Firewalk), and are not acquiring a proven GaaS studio with one of the most successful games in recent history.

You can't write a better comedy than this.
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Comedy of Errors: The Hulst PlayStation Generation
 
I am surprised hulst is still playstation studio head after all the catastrophy he has done to the brand
If I was playstation CEO he will be the first one I boot out of the company
 
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Should Sony probably buy Arrowhead? Sure, but it is more complex than that.

First, they might not be for sale and maybe Sony didn't want a percentage of the studio or they didn't want to sell to Sony and want to be able to be multiplatform.

Second, they don't own any worthwhile IP, so dropping over half a billion dollars on a studio with not a lot of technical expertise is a hard pill to swallow.

Third, people will say they spent money on start up studios rather than buying Arrowhead, but all evidence we have suggests those startup studios likely cost nothing relative to what is being suggested here.

Sony spent 4 billion dollars on 9 studios. We know that 3.6 billion was for Bungie, meaning that the 8 other studios cost a collective of 400 million dollars.

This includes Bluepoint, Nixxes, Firesprite, Haven, Firewalk, Housemarque, Valkyrie Entertainment, and Neon Koi/Savage Games.

8 studios for 400 million is an average of 50 million per studio and we can conclude that the bulk of that was Firesprite, Nixxes, Housemarque and Bluepoint. Let's assume that 75% of that 400 million are those 4 studios, which leaves 100 million for the other 4, meaning those start up studios cost an average of 25 million dollars a piece. Of those 4 studios, Valkyrie Entertainment was probably the most expensive. Let's say it was 30%, leaving 70 percent for those start ups. Meaning those start ups probably costs about 23 million dollars a piece for full ownership of the studio...

So apples and oranges discussion here about comparing a s studio like Haven to Arrowhead.

If any of you suggested Arrowhead as a studio to buy before Helldivers 2 came out, I'd like to see those posts...
 
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One thing to keep in mind here is buying Arrowhead doesn't give the buyer access to the Helldivers IP, as Sony owns that. That means you're essentially betting on their next IP being a massive hit, which is not a sure thing.

With that in mind, this is actually a surprisingly high valuation for Arrowhead.

Topher said:
Comedy of Errors: The Hulst PlayStation Generation
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I honestly think it's kind of weird that every bad thing that happens under him is attributed to him, but the successes and good calls aren't (something like Marvel Tokon should %100 be attributed to his leadership considering XDEV is under his remit and it's going to be a GAAS game like all other fighting games are).

He's had a checkered stint for sure, but it's also not the %100 trainwreck everyone is talking about.
 
hemo memo said:
Hulst is fixing Jim's mess-ups.
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Yeah by releasing concord and not seeing the writing on the wall from the start and cancel the game , he is a failure just like Jim and he was appointed playstation studio head by Jim himself
 
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Heisenberg007 said:
Sitting on their asses. Idiots, I swear.

They want GaaS games, have been acquiring unproven GaaS studios (Haven, Firewalk), and are not acquiring a proven GaaS studio with one of the most successful games in recent history.

You can't write a better comedy than this.
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Helldivers doesn't spread The Message. The PlayStation leaders in Commiefornia only want to spread The Message.
 
Topher said:
What is Sony doing?
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From what I understand, given that I actually know someone at Arrowhead. But I don't want to claim I'm an "insider" because they rip things out of proportion really bad.

1. Sony and Arrowhead still have a relatively good relationship, but it won't go any further
2. Both Arrowhead and Sony are to blame for their relationship not being what it used to be
  • Arrowhead nerfing all fun in the game for a while and changing things for the worse, which drove a lot of players away
  • Sony pressuring to try and get Arrowhead to monitise HD2 a lot more than it is(basically not much) and Arrowhead resisting. From what I understand, what monetisation Sony wanted bordered on ridiculous
  • Arrowhead's next game will not have anything to do with Sony in any way shape or form, and Arrowhead will never do anything with Sony in any way, shape or form ever again

Believe me or don't believe me. I could very well be making all of this up.

P.S. Not Arrowhead or Sony related

Nacon's patience with Spiders(developer) is also running thin. If it doesn't release as promised this year, and doesn't perform really well, they will be closed down.
 
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They did just say they're "free" from Sony publishing recently for their next game. Interesting timing for a large buy in from someone else.
 
Punished Miku said:
They did just say they're "free" from Sony publishing recently for their next game. Interesting timing for a large buy in from someone else.
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What I can also add is that a lot of Japanese developers don't want to work with current PlayStation and how they do things either, they just don't have much of a choice and do so reluctantly.
 
Signalis said:
From what I understand, given that I actually know someone at Arrowhead. But I don't want to claim I'm an "insider" because they rip things out of proportion really bad.

1. Sony and Arrowhead still have a relatively good relationship, but it won't go any further
2. Both Arrowhead and Sony are to blame for their relationship not being what it used to be
  • Arrowhead nerfing all fun in the game for a while and changing things for the worse, which drove a lot of players away
  • Sony pressuring to try and get Arrowhead to monitise HD2 a lot more than it is(basically not much) and Arrowhead resisting. From what I understand, what monetisation Sony wanted bordered on ridiculous
  • Arrowhead's next game will not have anything to do with Sony in any way shape or form, and Arrowhead will never do anything with Sony in any way, shape or form ever again

Believe me or don't believe me. I could very well be making all of this up.

P.S. Not Arrowhead or Sony related
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I can honestly believe it.

Signalis said:
Nacon's patience with Spiders(developer) is also running thin. If it doesn't release as promised this year, and doesn't perform really well, they will be closed down.
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These are the Greedfall guys right?

I heard the early access for Greedfall 2 didn't go great. Don't have many hopes in them bringing it into a good shape tbh.
 
Signalis said:
What I can also add is that a lot of Japanese developers don't want to work with current PlayStation and how they do things either, they just don't have much of a choice and do so reluctantly.
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Very interesting. I can only assume you're talking about second party titles? Not Japanese, but you could tell the frustration about the PC delay from the Stella Blade team was palpable.
 
Astray said:
One thing to keep in mind here is buying Arrowhead doesn't give the buyer access to the Helldivers IP, as Sony owns that. That means you're essentially betting on their next IP being a massive hit, which is not a sure thing.

With that in mind, this is actually a surprisingly high valuation for Arrowhead.


I honestly think it's kind of weird that every bad thing that happens under him is attributed to him, but the successes and good calls aren't (something like Marvel Tokon should %100 be attributed to his leadership considering XDEV is under his remit and it's going to be a GAAS game like all other fighting games are).

He's had a checkered stint for sure, but it's also not the %100 trainwreck everyone is talking about.
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I think he should be out, but people hyperfocusing on things like this without knowing any of the background is pretty laughable.

Arrowheads next game could be a complete bomb outside of Helldivers 2 and if he bought them they'd be blaming him just as easily.

There is a fascination with giving people 100% blame and 0% credit and it's the same mentality that the internet has with giving everything 10s and 1s... just a lack of critical thinking.
 
Astray said:
I honestly think it's kind of weird that every bad thing that happens under him is attributed to him, but the successes and good calls aren't (something like Marvel Tokon should %100 be attributed to his leadership considering XDEV is under his remit and it's going to be a GAAS game like all other fighting games are).

He's had a checkered stint for sure, but it's also not the %100 trainwreck everyone is talking about.
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When I reference Hulst I'm really referencing SIE management as a whole. I don't know who made what calls on anything this gen, but for myself, I see it as an overall negative. But what I think doesn't matter. I'm sure stockholders love the work SIE is doing.
 
Signalis said:
What I can also add is that a lot of Japanese developers don't want to work with current PlayStation and how they do things either, they just don't have much of a choice and do so reluctantly.
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You should have stopped at your arrowhead post, at least that looked slightly believable. Hard to stop when you already saddle that "insider" horse, eh?
 
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Signalis said:
What I can also add is that a lot of Japanese developers don't want to work with current PlayStation and how they do things either, they just don't have much of a choice and do so reluctantly.
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Can you elaborate further on the cause behind this? Any response or optimism on Nishino's role? I'm willing to believe there is some weight on that claim.
 
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I mean Sony own Helldivers 2 and in this day and age it's not easy to hit lighting twice. Maybe they'll do a new IP and it'll be huge but Sony has Helldivers in the bag.
 
Sony also screwed up the relationship with Shift Up. The stupidity of the whole SIE management is a botomless pit.

Their only luck is that the consequences of their disastrous tenure will start to show next gen.
 
Topher said:
When I reference Hulst I'm really referencing SIE management as a whole. I don't know who made what calls on anything this gen, but for myself, I see it as an overall negative. But what I think doesn't matter. I'm sure stockholders love the work SIE is doing.
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The way I see it, anything with Playstation Studios plastered on it is his baby and the buck stops with him (whether he green-lit that or not doesn't matter, he still has to own his predecessor's decisions, good or bad).

Anything that isn't is not his. Like if Sony changes their EULA or release a new controller or whatever, that almost certainly isn't gonna be part of his remit.

With that said, I think the fact Nishino took over and not him kinda points to SIE having at least some criticisms of his tenure.
 
Kerotan said:
I mean Sony own Helldivers 2 and in this day and age it's not easy to hit lighting twice. Maybe they'll do a new IP and it'll be huge but Sony has Helldivers in the bag.
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I mean most likely something will come to head with their next game. It'll probably be their first time making a game with Unreal Engine, they're going to lose 5% of their revenue to Epic and 20-30% to all the platform holders and they're going to assume all of the risks.

Meanwhile, they'll be tethered unfavorably to Helldivers. Sony has the Helldivers moving coming out, if that takes Helldivers to the next level and Sony simply gets someone else to do Helldivers 3 and Arrowheads next game isn't a big success, there goes their valuation....

Maybe they've built enough of a fanbase here that will follow them, but we're going to see how this plays out over the next 4-5 years or so.

Astray said:
The way I see it, anything with Playstation Studios plastered on it is his baby and the buck stops with him (whether he green-lit that or not doesn't matter, he still has to own his predecessor's decisions, good or bad).

Anything that isn't is not his. Like if Sony changes their EULA or release a new controller or whatever, that almost certainly isn't gonna be part of his remit.

With that said, I think the fact Nishino took over and not him kinda points to SIE having at least some criticisms of his tenure.
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When they were made co-ceos I said that the situation wouldn't last and that they were in competition with each other. Nishino had a lot of success while Hulst continued to have fuck up after fuck up.
 
Astray said:
The way I see it, anything with Playstation Studios plastered on it is his baby and the buck stops with him (whether he green-lit that or not doesn't matter, he still has to own his predecessor's decisions, good or bad).

Anything that isn't is not his. Like if Sony changes their EULA or release a new controller or whatever, that almost certainly isn't gonna be part of his remit.

With that said, I think the fact Nishino took over and not him kinda points to SIE having at least some criticisms of his tenure.
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Think that's a fair take. Hopefully we see some changes as a result.
 
Hypereides said:
Can you elaborate further on the cause behind this? Any response or optimism on Nishino's role? I'm willing to believe there is some weight on that claim.
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I don't know too much to be honest. Only reason I know some things is that I used to be a developer a long time ago in the industry. I left the industry to work at a corporate company(still the same company I work for now after all these years and I am still happy). As soul crushing as it sounds, it was and still is a huge upgrade. I know some people that are involved but mostly programmers and what they hear down the grapevine.

Edit: spelling mistakes
 
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Thief1987 said:
You should have stopped at your arrowhead post, at least that looked slightly believable. Hard to stop when you already saddle that "insider" horse, eh?
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Never claimed to be an insider. As said specifically that I am not claiming to be an insider. As I know very very little, just the little I hear from others (mostly programmers)
 
Astray said:
I can honestly believe it.


These are the Greedfall guys right?

I heard the early access for Greedfall 2 didn't go great. Don't have many hopes in them bringing it into a good shape tbh.
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Yes the Greedfall guys. Personally I like The Technomancer a lot more. It had many issues but I still have a huge soft spot for it. But we can never have a Technomancer 2, because Spiders don't have the rights to it anymore. Deep Silver was willing to fund it at the cost of IP ownership.

I did like Greedfall 1. But from what I can see with Greedfall 2, it's a hard pass for me.
 
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