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[bishoptl]

Let's try this again.

The amount of vitriol, half-truths and outright nonsense being spewed in the last thread won't be happening here. It's closed and administration will be going through each and every post with a fine tooth comb. Some accounts are going into the ether. Don't bother PMing to "explain" your position. That shit was shameful.

This cowardly killing was a horrific act of terror. People are angry, hurt, scared. That's fine. What's not fine is using it as an opportunity to spew racist, jingoistic, prejudicial crap under the cover of "this is what these people do".

There will be an adult discussion in here. The events deserve nothing less.

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WHAT WE KNOW

http://www.theguardian.com/world/charlie-hebdo-attack
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/w...ackage-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2015/01/07/attaque-au-siege-de-charlie-hebdo_4550630_3224.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europ...ris-magazine-attackers-20151721224190337.html
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/07/europe/france-satire-magazine-gunfire/index.html

* Two masked gunmen dressed in black and armed with Kalashnikovs entered the offices, in the 11th arrondissement, at 11.30am on Wednesday and opened fire on an editorial meeting. Twelve people were killed in the attack, including eight journalists and two police officers.

* French authorities are hunting for the suspects, who fled the scene in one car before hijacking another. There are reports of a raid in Reims.

* Charlie Hebdo had come under attack before. Its offices were firebombed in November 2011, after which it published an issue it billed as being guest edited by the prophet Muhammad.

* Gunmen who attacked the magazine could be heard on video captured at the scene saying “Allahu akbar,” “we’ve killed Charlie Hebdo” and “we’ve avenged the prophet.”

* Those killed in the attack included the magazine’s editor, Stéphane Charbonnier, Bernard Maris, an economist and writer on the board of Charlie Hebdo; and three more cartoonists: Jean Cabu, Georges Wolinski and Bernard Verlhac, known as Tignous.

Carry on.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Je suis Charlie !

 

[nrvalleytime]

This cowardly killing was a horrific act of terror.

Anyone who believes that these men represent an entire religion is sadly and tragically mistaken.

 

[Iku-Turso]

BFMTV confirms that the youngest one surrendered to the police, more details to come probably.

 

[DrForester]

Whats the current status on that raid? I know there have been some reports of one dead, 2 taken into custody. Any details, or firm confirmation?

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Je suis Charlie.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

I just hoping they catch these guys soon before they can kill more people.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Whats the current status on that raid? I know there have been some reports of one dead, 2 taken into custody. Any details, or firm confirmation?

I believe those reports were false, and that raid was just searching for evidence/leads.

 

[lefantome]

I thought that went without saying, but I suppose that was naive of me.

So yes, I absolutely support Charlie Hebdo's right to publish puerile, racist crap like this. Doesn't mean I have to admire them as heroes.

they are free speech heroes, it's a fact, they died for it.

I don't know the context of these pages and I suppose you don't know it either, many of the journalists/artist were strong leftist and not racist so you shouldn't judge without having more information.

Please don't be one of those people who don't understand satire at first and get instantly outraged, like those who called a banksy painting against racism, racist.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

I just hoping they catch these guys soon before they can kill more people.

That was my fear too. The large crowds that have popped up are beautiful, but I still fear for their safety.

 

[AkuMifune]

BFMTV confirms that the youngest one surrendered to the police, more details to come probably.

I'd like to suggest his sentence be drawing cartoons of Mohammed until he dies.

 

[Magni]

Le Monde also is saying that the youngest of the three (18) gave himself up. wrong tab, that was BFM.

Just got back from the Union Sq rally in NYC, I was happy to see so many people (200ish?) despite the freezing cold. Not afraid.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Anyone who believes that these men represent an entire religion is sadly and tragically mistaken.

I may be in the minority here but I think this drawing doesn't quite work. I sort of get the idea but it's... I don't know. Feels a bit forced.

 

[ElTorro]

Continuing the conversation from the last thread. Please delete the post if that kind of discussion is considered off-topic.

Quran answers you in verse 3:6-3:9

Let's see.

3:3-3:5

He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution. Indeed, from Allah nothing is hidden in the earth nor in the heaven.

Good start.

It is He who forms you in the wombs however He wills. There is no deity except Him, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.[Who say], "Our Lord, let not our hearts deviate after You have guided us and grant us from Yourself mercy. Indeed, You are the Bestower. Our Lord, surely You will gather the people for a Day about which there is no doubt. Indeed, Allah does not fail in His promise."

How does that answer my point? It just states my point, namely that the text is ambiguous. And it gives absolutely no justification for that, despite the obvious senseless ness of having ambiguous texts in such a book allegedly written by an all-mighty person. It just states that you should ignore that ambiguity, just believe and shut up. Is that an answer for you?

 

[chadskin]

French cop Ahmed Merabet. Rest in Peace.

https://twitter.com/jensbest/status/552984347754897409

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

 

[Zaph]

My favourite

Je suis Charlie

 

[Father_Brain]

they are free speech heroes, it's a fact, they died for it.

I don't know the context of these pages and I suppose you don't know it either, many of the journalists/artist were strong leftist and not racist so you shouldn't judge without having more information.

Please don't be one of those people who don't understand satire at first and get instantly outraged, like those who called a banksy painting against racism, racist.

No, I'm just one of those people who doesn't believe that people getting offended by your work, even murderously so, is proof that you Spoke Truth to Power and made some great satirical point.

 

[-x.Red.x-]

RIP sad day

I just hope they catch the criminals

 

[Trouble]

Whats the current status on that raid? I know there have been some reports of one dead, 2 taken into custody. Any details, or firm confirmation?

Yeah it's confusing. NBC is still running with word from 'US Officials', but no one else is that I can see.

 

[Ghazi]

I just hoping they catch these guys soon before they can kill more people.

I don't think they will, this seems like a very meticulously planned attack with the single intent of hurting Charlie. If I had to guess, I'd say the shooters are going to try to get out of the country next. Speculation of course, but I hope they are captured soon. Hopefully that supposed raid caught them.

 

[Iku-Turso]

I believe those reports were false, and that raid was just searching for evidence/leads.

As I just posted, those were false reports but BFMTV just said that the youngest one of the three surrendered to the police.

 

[ComputerMKII]

BFMTV confirms that the youngest one surrendered to the police, more details to come probably.

Excellent! I had closed the livestream because they had nothing new to report but I'm gonna watch it again now.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I think ppl will continue to make cartoons only be too scared to draw the prophet now so they will tread carefully to avoid that but still draw something in protest. The big newspapers will be especially careful not to draw the prophet.

 

[No Love]

Anyone who believes that these men represent an entire religion is sadly and tragically mistaken.

The sad truth is, there are many people out there that honestly judge a whole religion based on some psychotic extremists' separate actions. It's a shame that ignorance is so easy to accept.

I think what really breaks my heart is that 12 people today are victims of the kind of event that we all thought wouldn't happen. I too thought it was a joke when extremists threatened South Park for showing the Prophet Mohammed and thought no serious action/retaliation would ever occur because of cartoons/satire.

 

[kmax]

Great initiative. Reading some of the bigotry in the other thread was nauseating.

With that said, seeing the picture of the victims still hurt. God bless these brave people's souls.

Je susis Charlie.

 

[waypoetic]

Don't see anything new in the news. It's bed time for me and i hope to see these guys caught when i wake up. Talk to you guys in the morning.

 

[KingSnake]

I'd like to suggest his sentence be drawing cartoons of Mohammed until he dies.

I like this, it's the kind of punishment that could be understood even by a child.

 

[lefantome]

No, I'm just one of those people who doesn't believe that people getting offended by your work, even murderously so, is proof that you Spoke Truth to Power and made some great satirical point.

it hasn't nothing to do with free speech.
Bad satire is still protected by the freedom of speech.

 

[Circle Jerk]

BFMTV confirms that the youngest one surrendered to the police, more details to come probably.

I wonder why he did this, and if he knows where the other two are now. I can't imagine surrendering to police if he wasn't going to talk to them tho.

 

[pulsemyne]

AFP reporting that the 18 year old has handed himself into the police.

 

[elrechazado]

I assume France has no death penalty, correct? What is a reasonable expectation for a sentence, assuming found guilty?

 

[TimeEffect]

French cop Ahmed Merabet. Rest in Peace.

https://twitter.com/jensbest/status/552984347754897409

Fuck. I didnt want to see his face. The description of his slaying really boils my blood.

 

[Daemul]

Thank you Bish, the previous thread was a cesspit.

 

[ComputerMKII]

French cop Ahmed Merabet. Rest in Peace.

https://twitter.com/jensbest/status/552984347754897409

Repose en paix, chef.

 

[Xando]

I assume France has no death penalty, correct? What is a reasonable expectation for a sentence, assuming found guilty?

They'll get life.

 

[Tektonic]

Thank you Bish, the previous thread was a cesspit.

Agreed, good call. Now that more facts are appearing, we can stick to them

 

[wenis]

I wonder why he did this, and if he knows where the other two are now. I can't imagine surrendering to police if he wasn't going to talk to them tho.

He chickened out and is looking for a plea deal on this to sell out the other two? Dunno how the legal system works in France so that's that.

 

[Father_Brain]

Bad satire is still protected by the freedom of speech.

I completely agree with that. I'm annoyed that I have to keep emphasizing this because I dislike Charlie Hebdo's art, but oh well.

 

[elrechazado]

The sad truth is, there are many people out there that honestly judge a whole religion based on some psychotic extremists' separate actions. It's a shame that ignorance is so easy to accept.

I think what really breaks my heart is that 12 people today are victims of the kind of event that we all thought wouldn't happen. I too thought it was a joke when extremists threatened South Park for showing the Prophet Mohammed and thought no serious action/retaliation would ever occur because of cartoons/satire.

Unfortunately it was never a joke. Real violence was happening as a result of the Mohammed depictions at that time. This is just the most extreme example thus far.

 

[Winterfang]

What does Je Sui Charlie means? Is it "I am Charlie'' or is it ''We are Charlie''?

 

[ComputerMKII]

BFM TV say the suspect surrendered because he wanted to explain himself. He may or may not be one of the attackers (he's still officially a suspect), so let's wait till we know more.

If he is guilty, that would remind me more of Breivik (whose strategy involved getting caught so as to use the trial as a political tribune) than a typical Islamic terrorist.

 

[DECK'ARD]

As I just posted, those were false reports but BFMTV just said that the youngest one of the three just surrendered to the police.

Hopefully this will lead to the whereabouts of the other 2.

 

[Guy.brush]

The sad truth is, there are many people out there that honestly judge a whole religion based on some psychotic extremists' separate actions. It's a shame that ignorance is so easy to accept.

I think what really breaks my heart is that 12 people today are victims of the kind of event that we all thought wouldn't happen. I too thought it was a joke when extremists threatened South Park for showing the Prophet Mohammed and thought no serious action/retaliation would ever occur because of cartoons/satire.

Sadly lots of people thought it could happen as millions of people were crying blood when the cartoons first hit. The newspaper even had a security guard and police protection.

 

[DrForester]

I don't think they will, this seems like a very meticulously planned attack with the single intent of hurting Charlie. If I had to guess, I'd say the shooters are going to try to get out of the country next. Speculation of course, but I hope they are captured soon. Hopefully that supposed raid caught them.

I am curious about how they would escape. I have had the impression that Western Europe is an incredibly open place as far as citizens traveling between counties go.

If true, what actions has France enacted to close down any ways out for these terrorists? How does one close down such an open system?

 

[KingSnake]

Did all three enter the building or one of them was waiting in the car?

 

[RangerX]

Misé Charlie.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Despite the tragedy and terror born of intolerance, it is comforting to know that humor is a profoundly effective weapon against those who promote it. He will persist very triumphant beyond all the evils that hamper our freedom. There is no force that deletes it or doctrine that gags it. It is a struggle without victory. For colleagues who succumbed to exercise this precious commodity, be sure that the pencil will remain sharp, and the paper will continue white and delicious.

Henrique Monteiro

 

[Mimosa97]

French cop Ahmed Merabet. Rest in Peace.

https://twitter.com/jensbest/status/552984347754897409

Rest in peace my brother.

You sacrificed yourself to try and stop them. You died as a Hero. You'll be remembered as a Hero.

 

[Mr.Swag]

Wait, so we don't have their names?