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Terrorist attack in London [up: 6 people killed, ~50 injured, 3 attackers dead]

C

cartesian

Member
Moosichu said:
What do you want the UK to do, invade itself? A lot of these terrorists are home grown. Living your normal life is fighting back, and the seeming never-ending nature of these events is just that, eventually they will stop.
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This is equally naive. Doing nothing and carrying on as normal won't stop the attacks. People in London carried on as normal after the last Westminster attack and yet here we are again. Terror planners don't sit there and think, oh, #WeAreNotAfraid is trending, so I guess we might as well cancel our attacks. Nobody blows up schoolgirls at a concert because they think it will somehow lure the West into a trap of 'reacting' and doing some vaguely racist things to Muslims - I mean, they may hope for this outcome as a secondary objective, but ultimately do it simply because they hate and despise Western society and civilisation, and really so believe that God commands them to the righteous duty of killing the unbelievers, and that paradise awaits this holy work.

You can't understand the phenomenon of Islamic terrorism if you try and sterilise discussion by pretending it's some kind of passing fad that will fade if the West ignores it and turns the other cheek. There is no evidence that Salafism/Wahhabism is terminally exhausted as an ideology/theology; you can't say that it will fade away if the West stoically refuses to react to it. This strain of Islam has been developing for decades and it's not going anywhere.

The notion that Islamic fundamentalists are simply trying to 'sow division among communities' is far too simplistic. This misapplies Western secular thinking to a deeply religious community. ISIS is deeply committed to an extremely conservative theology. Their jihadists believe they are spiritually commanded to butcher unbelievers and punish the crusader states. They will keep attacking for as long as they, and their interpretations of Islam, persist. How the unbelievers react is of secondary importance only. If we sit here and do nothing, it makes very little difference to them - they don't define success as 'increasing racism in Britain', they define it as 'slaughtering the kuffar'. They are content to keep on killing us because that's what God instructs them to do.

These attacks won't just stop. Doing nothing won't help. ISIS won't give up if we sit tight. There is no reason to say that 'living normally' somehow switches off the theological magnets powering salafist jihadism. This is naive denialism.


It won't get better until Western authorities start taking a smarter approach to integration and religion.
 
T

tearsintherain

Member
jellies_two said:
How to stop terrorism like this
1. Ban the press and individuals from monetizing anything but official announcements on attacks, no hot takes no breaking pictures and videos no histrionics
2. Fix the root causes

This might sound restrictive but denies ISIS what they crave: relevancy, wide publicity, and terror. We get told we are in a state of war? well in a state of war the press has certain obligations.
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That won't do anything. ISIS has a very simple goal, its literally the core of their belief. They believe that Rome (the West) will attack at Dabiq, Syria and their defeat will bring about the apocalypse. They will do anything to get western countries to keep attacking them. Its not a centralized organization or anything either, they just basically tell everyone "hey, just cause a bunch of chaos, whatever you can come up with, so the battle at Dabiq comes about sooner."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Al Queda wanted to establish an Islamic caliphate, which ISIS sorta has done (with varying degrees of success and pushback). They believed continued attacks against the West would lead to economic collapse. ISIS is much simpler though again, they have a very specific path and goal of the apocalypse.

Even if we were to somehow completely wipe out ISIS from Syria/Iraq, another form of Islamic extremism would arise from the ashes of the Taliban, Al Queda, Al Shabab, etc that just wants extreme chaos.

Remember, in 2016 over 10,000 people were murdered by ISIS, 99% of them were Shia's in Iraq/Syria and you probably don't really recall a single incident even though there were half a dozen that involved suicide bombers killing 100+. So "not knowing" the news doesn't really matter to ISIS, as long as militaries keep organizing against them.
 
S

Stead Fast

Banned
MosquitoSmasher said:
Good news if some of these cowards have been killed, bad news if some have escaped. Problem is these assholes always manage to take some people with them before they are taken out themselves. Such a shame. Just imagine yourself there, I can't even.

My brother would like to to on vacation this summer and usually he'd go to places like England or perhaps France but he told me he just doesn't feel like doing that with his wife and two sons and I get him very well on that. On the other hand living in fear isn't good either.
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Personally, taken in alive is the best option, anything to help strengthen information on these scum outweighs letting them going out in their cowardly terms.

Also; I'm biased here, as a Brit, but there's so much fun to be had from visiting here, I'd guarantee they'd enjoy it.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
As a Mancunian it's sad to see some of the reactions to this, although it is understandable.

It's ok to think that both intelligence need more funding and powers and that we should all stay close with different communities.

If we start blaming religions and entire races then they win. Simple.
 
N

NewDust

Member
Bobnob said:
All the people say keep calm carry on, its hard man and im not sure how people can't be affected by this.
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I'm not sure how people can cope with it either. I'm trying my best to not to fucking bawl my eyes out. Fuck this shit. Enough is enough.
 
G

gngf123

Member
cloudburst said:
You don't think the perpetrator(s) of this attack deserve torture? I think they deserve far worse than torture.
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Please tell me how torture would make things better.

Instead, lets just get the information we can from him and then let him rot, far away from people. No need to give more reason to create these idiots, or to have our police/prison services do unnecessary shit just for bloodlust.

They might derserve it. Doesn't make it a good idea.
 
TTOOLL

TTOOLL

Member
AcademicSaucer said:
I guess this is the new normal
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That's what we shouldn't be saying in my opinion. It's been happening a lot but it just can't be seen as normal as the London mayor unfortunately said.

The problem is, how do you shut down the idea?

One user gave the idea of closing mosques that spread hate speech. But how would you do it legally?
 
scotcheggz

scotcheggz

Member
Witness on the guardian speaking about watching the CL final in a pub when it all went down. He started throwing chairs, bottles and glasses at the attackers to try and stop them. Glad to see the fine British tradition of football fans luzzing pub furniture put to good use. I've read a few reports of bystanders actually trying to stop the attackers now. Don't know if it was the alcohol floating about on a Saturday night but fair play to them, I'd have just shit myself I'm pretty sure.
 
R

ronaldthump

Member
You don't even need a bomb. That's the scary thing

bomb one week. van one week.

Seriously, it'll come to a point where normal citizenry should carry these:

telisopic._new-collapsible-telescopi-security-self-defense-system-stick.jpg


if a few people had it, they could at least have a red hot go at fighting back
 
D

Dopus

Banned
TTOOLL said:
That's what we shouldn't be saying in my opinion. It's been happening a lot but it just can't be seen as normal as the London mayor unfortunately said.

The problem is, how do you shut down the idea?

One user gave the idea of closing mosques that spread hate speech. But how would you do it legally?
Click to expand...

That's not what Khan was saying at all. He was on point.
 
Yautja_Warrior

Yautja_Warrior

Member
Jeff Albertson said:
They aren't behind they just don't like to deal in rumours and will only report what's confirmed I think
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With them being live, you would think that one of the reports on the scene would have heard something, but they have said nothing so far.

Hard to know what's real though at the moment.
 
J

Jumeira

Banned
TTOOLL said:
That's what we shouldn't be saying in my opinion. It's been happening a lot but it just can't be seen as normal as the London mayor unfortunately said.

The problem is, how do you shut down the idea?

One user gave the idea of closing mosques that spread hate speech. But how would you do it legally?
Click to expand...

Thats not what he said, we've been over this a million times.
 
L

LNBL

Member
scotcheggz said:
Witness on the guardian speaking about watching the CL final in a pub when it all went down. He started throwing chairs, bottles and glasses at the attackers to try and stop them. Glad to see the fine British tradition of football fans luzzing pub furniture put to good use. I've read a few reports of bystanders actually trying to stop the attackers now. Don't know if it was the alcohol floating about on a Saturday night but fair play to them, I'd have just shit myself I'm pretty sure.
Click to expand...

I was actually thinking about that earlier tonight. If these animals came at them with knives, i'd hope they would throw everything in there at them to stop them.
 
O

Oriel

Member
cloudburst said:
You don't think the perpetrator(s) of this attack deserve torture? I think they deserve far worse than torture.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think they should be tortured. We're better than that. I won't lose sleep if they're killed outright in the course of their terror attacks. But if caught alive then interrogate them legally. Torture rarely delivers any intelligence or note. And torturing them for the sake of it is just moronic.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
ronaldthump said:
You don't even need a bomb. That's the scary thing

bomb one week. van one week.

Seriously, it'll come to a point where normal citizenry should carry these:

telisopic._new-collapsible-telescopi-security-self-defense-system-stick.jpg


if a few people had it, they could at least have a red hot go at fighting back
Click to expand...

Why? There are things much more dangerous to us than terrorists. We don't live in a warzone, we live during one of the most safest points in human history.
 
J

jellies_two

Member
tearsintherain said:
Remember, in 2016 over 10,000 people were murdered by ISIS, 99% of them were Shia's in Iraq/Syria and you probably don't really recall a single incident even though there were half a dozen that involved suicide bombers killing 100+. So "not knowing" the news doesn't really matter to ISIS, as long as militaries keep organizing against them.
Click to expand...
They recruit using success as a selling point however. Especially outside their own countries in communities overseas. Nothing says success like a hysterical press reactions. It is the same logic that drives mass shooters to outdo each other in body count. Infamy is better than no fame at all.

Inside Syria etc they don't need the press as much.

There is little $ cost to reigning in the press, and no risk in terms of inflaming things. If things are so serious that one could promote mass surveillance and expulaion and fortress U.K. Then the idea of capping the press is very mild.
 
S

Syder

Member
Eyewitness on BBC just said some of the perpetrators were shouting 'this is for Allah!'

Ughh... Really fucking sad.
 
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