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[cyberheater]

As far as i'm aware, the suspects in these cases have all been British born. Immigration isn't really central to this issue, unless the argument is to ban Muslims altogether.

Nope. I don't want a ban on Muslims but if these potential terrorists are on a watch list then they must be a good suspicion that they have or are about to do something.

 

[orochi91]

Fuck that shit.
You know I'm talking about those violent killers and not the majority of peace loving Muslims.

Go force your narrative down someone else throat.

What's your source for the political correctness claim?

Why would you assume that's the main reason authorities aren't arresting suspected citizens?

 

[Par Score]

Another Islamic attack.

There are something like 4000 of these potentially violent Islamic terrorist currently on the watch list and these fuckers go and fight for ISIS and get trained and the UK government let them back in.

Why the fuck are the UK government letting these people in. When are we going to start putting the lives of UK citizens first.

I'm so sick of this political correctness crap.

Probably because these "fuckers" are UK Citizens.

The 7/7 attackers and the Manchester bomber were all "homegrown", this in an internal problem, not some external invasion.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Fuck that shit.
You know I'm talking about those violent killers and not the majority of peace loving Muslims.

Go force your narrative down someone else throat.

You're being needlessly aggressive and shitty here after making your own generalisation in this very thread.

Sit back, relax a bit and re-read this page. Calling this "PC crap" while not giving any definition to what segment you're referring to instead of Islam as a whole is a bad comment and a poor justification for what's basically blaming a large part of our country who are likely in fear of reprisal right now. They had nothing to do with this.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Another Islamic attack.

There are something like 4000 of these potentially violent Islamic terrorist currently on the watch list and these fuckers go and fight for ISIS and get trained and the UK government let them back in.

Why the fuck are the UK government letting these people in. When are we going to start putting the lives of UK citizens first.

I'm so sick of this political correctness crap.

what if the terrorists turn out to be citizens as is usually the case.

 

[Boy Wander]

The majority of the attacks in the UK have been perpetuated by British nationals. You propose locking British nationals from the UK? It doesn't make any sense. Arrest them when they come back or put them in very high vigilance and get them for questioning, but you can't lock UK nationals from going back to the UK

Just because a dog was born in barn, it doesn't make it a horse. These people feel no more British than their ilk plying their barbarism in Syria. It might say British on their passport but that doesn't mean they share any of our ideals.

 

[cyberheater]

Sit back, relax a bit and re-read this page.

Yeah. That's a good idea. I'll come back when I've calmed down a bit. I'm raging right now.

 

[Carl2291]

Wow are you seriously implying the problem lies within Islam?

Of course.

More specifically, Wahhabism.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Yeah. That's a good idea. I'll come back when I've calmed down a bit. I'm raging right now.

We are all angry and I'm sorry you're feeling this a bit more than maybe some of us. I grew up in Belfast and while I'm certainly fucking irate this is going on part of me is numb to it as I've been here before :/

We'll get through this, all of us.

 

[MUnited83]

Just because a dog was born in barn, it doesn't make it a horse. These people feel no more British than their ilk plying their barbarism in Syria. It might say British on their passport but that doesn't mean they share any of our ideals.

"British ideals" are not a thing, and nationality and citizenship is not defined by ideals either, so I don't get your point here. As British citizens/nationals, they have to be treated as exactly that. You can't just block criminals born on your country from being on your country and force other countries to live with the criminal that was born on your country.

 

[Ashes]

I can't understand the level of hate one must have in order to plunge knives into total strangers, and do so thinking God would approve. I think it was Richard Dawkins who said it best:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it, you'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion".

That quote and others like it are repetitive and bullshit. So called 'good people' do evil things all the times.

There is data to suggest something simpler happens - obedience to authority. See Milgram for example.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mental-mishaps/201702/good-people-evil-actions

 

[Par Score]

Just because a dog was born in barn, it doesn't make it a horse. These people feel no more British than their ilk plying their barbarism in Syria. It might say British on their passport but that doesn't mean they share any of our ideals.

We don't operate birthright citizenship as a country.

Nobody asked me about my ideals when I got my first passport.

I probably don't share your ideals either, but I'm still a British National with all the rights that entails.

 

[Walshicus]

Why bother?

Terrorism isn't a problem and there are only marginal benefits to trying to prevent it.

Why are you shouting at me for a solution? Don't get all reactionary and shouty with me. YOU said "6 preventable deaths" in your earlier post. I asked you to quantify how you meant they were preventable which you've ignored.

No you didn't. You asked me what my 'solution' was. The deaths are preventable, obviously, because they were caused by human action.

Do you know what 'marginal' means? I'm going to assume you don't based on the above.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility

To keep things simple though, what does £1 extra of NHS get you vs £1 of police, vs £1 extra of schools, etc?

 

[Addnan]

Just because a dog was born in barn, it doesn't make it a horse. These people feel no more British than their ilk plying their barbarism in Syria. It might say British on their passport but that doesn't mean they share any of our ideals.

How do you propose we differentiate the real British from the fake one..?

 

[cyberheater]

Then use proper wordage, I'm not a fucking mind reader buddy.

I'm sorry.

We are all angry and I'm sorry you're feeling this a bit more than maybe some of us. I grew up in Belfast and while I'm certainly fucking irate this is going on part of me is numb to it as I've been here before :/

We'll get through this, all of us.

Thanks.

I'm out for a while.

 

[the_id]

As a Muslim doing Ramadhan, I feel sick and I feel that the attackers would be those who claim to be practicing my faith.

 

[sirap]

How do you propose we differentiate the real British from the fake one..?

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

My condolences to the victims and their families. The UK is going through a rough time right now. As someone who lives 20 minutes away from Nice and was there a day before the attack, that kind of fear, grief and anger is hard to process. But Brexit and ancestral friendly rivalry aside, your neighbors from across the Channel are with you. I studied in London for a year and had a wonderful time, it's a great city with great people.

 

[Lonely1]

I wonder if there is an organized effort from these radicals to influence UK elections... RIP to the victims.

 

[Machina]

 

[orochi91]

As a Muslim doing Ramadhan, I feel sick and I feel that the attackers would be those who claim to be practicing my faith.

For what it's worth, they probably wouldn't hesitate in killing you if given the chance; it's often like that with such radicals and their extremist interpretations of your faith.

They are unhinged lunatics, so there's no need to feel sick or beat yourself over them.

 

[Boy Wander]

How do you propose we differentiate the real British from the fake one..?

These people despise everything Western culture stands for and are on a watch list. They should be pretty easy to identify.

 

[TCRS]

As far as i'm aware, the suspects in these cases have all been British born. Immigration isn't really central to this issue, unless the argument is to ban Muslims altogether.

He never spoke about Immigration.

The main mistake in my opinion, which allowed home grown terror to fester has been the false tolerance of the british political establishment, media and population with regards to islamic radicalism. I mean how the fuck has Anjem Chaudry managed to evade jail while publicly calling for beheadings? Abu Hamza? El-Faisal?

It took 9/11 and loads of american prrssure until those scumbags were put away. But until then the damage had been done, radicalism is a part of a lot of mosques by now.

This fales tolerance allowed a lot of horrible things to happen in immigrant communities. There should have been a robust integration from the very beginning. Backwards ideas with regards to family life and role of women are still well established in large parts of the Pakistani community for example (while in other parts there hsa been admirable progress). Maybe it's time to start demanding more integration now.

How to root out radicalism in mosques? Make a ban list of foreign preachers, make mosques report who is preaching, more monitoring of suspects.. I don't know what the magic solution is but something has to be done.

 

[Ashes]

He never spoke about Immigration.

The main mistake in my opinion, which allowed home grown terror to fester has been the false tolerance of the british political establishment, media and population with regards to islamic radicalism. I mean how the fuck has Anjem Chaudry managed to evade jail while publicly calling for beheadings? Abu Hamza? El-Faisal?

It took 9/11 and loads of american prrssure until those scumbags were put away. But until then the damage had been done, radicalism is a part of a lot of mosques by now.

This fales tolerance allowed a lot of horrible things to happen in immigrant communities. There should have been a robust integration from the very beginning. Backwards ideas with regards to family life and role of women are still well established in large parts of the Pakistani community for example (while in other parts there hsa been admirable progress). Maybe it's time to start demanding more integration now.

How to root out radicalism in mosques? Make a ban list of foreign preachers, make mosques report who is preaching, more monitoring of suspects.. I don't know what the magic solution is but something has to be done.

He's in jail though.

edit: thought so. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37098751

 

[KingSnake]

If it is true that all 3 attackers were killed within 8 minutes since all this began then the police did an amazing job. That's one hell of a reaction time.

 

[DavidDesu]

So I read the police/security services have 3000 people on a watchlist and 500 "plots" under investigation. I'm normally very much for rule of law, and I don't think my idea honestly deviates much from that, but why can't they just arrest all of these people. It would take extraordinary measures and resources, but we're a county that can magic up hundreds of billions for quantitave easing or Trident, why not for the security of the citizens?

If there's 3000 people being watched, if they have evidence of ISIS sympathies and so on, that should be enough. That right there, given how quickly it feels like it takes these people to just decide to do an attack, and the fact that their state of mind does not care whether they die at the end, why can't we go and arrest and detain every single person who poses enough of a threat that they are currently under investigation?

And before anyone says, yes I ONLY want people who we have concrete evidence on, of showing sympathies with ISIS. Messages intercepted, talking on message forums about wishing harm on civilians, that should be enough. Once their minds are thinking like that it takes 5 minutes for them to grab a knife, at whatever moment they finally crack, and just create a terror incident like this. Enough is enough.

 

[Budi]

He's in jail though.

edit: thought so. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37098751

Took long enough, I think that was what the poster was saying.

 

[chromatic9]

"British ideals" are not a thing, and nationality and citizenship is not defined by ideals either, so I don't get your point here. As British citizens/nationals, they have to be treated as exactly that. You can't just block criminals born on your country from being on your country and force other countries to live with the criminal that was born on your country.

Germany are deporting two people born there back to their parents homeland on suspicion of being dangerous.

 

[Majukun]

I'm surprised we've never had a football match get attacked.

As someone that regularly attends matches I'm ready for security to seriously step up next season.

that's because the security as already stepped up where possible.
the fact is,you can't control everyone without infringing the rights of everyone...as long as you have public places you don't have to pass through a checkpoint you can have a potential objective for an attack,as long as you private places where surveillance is not present,people can gather and plan attacks

people seem to be under the impression that not enough it's been currently done to stop this attacks,but the fact is that they are probably doing all they can, given the specific limitations in place (workforce,funds,human rights to be preserved, legal issues)

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

Sky News said 7 people dead?


I watched that thing on BBC, The Jihadi next door and I couldn't believe those people had liberty to move around as they pleased and said what they said.

 

[KingSnake]

Germany are deporting two people born there back to their parents homeland on suspicion of being dangerous.

Are they German citizen?

 

[RulkezX]

Fuck May

Let's not work on our foreign policy or the social issues helping these guys turn to radical views , let's further regulate the internet instead.

 

[Ashes]

If it is true that all 3 attackers were killed within 8 minutes since all this began then the police did an amazing job. That's one hell of a reaction time.

I was on the road while the police reacted. The weird thing is that they're saying a call came through at 10:08pm, but I swear they were reacting by then. I just checked my google maps timeline and it suggests I left home at 10:00 clock to go to Moorfield's Eye hospital.

 

[Jezbollah]

Police operation in Barking, East London.

Fuck May

Let's not work on our foreign policy or the social issues helping these guys turn to radical views , let's further regulate the internet instead.

Did you not bother to listen to the entire speech?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Germany are deporting two people born there back to their parents homeland on suspicion of being dangerous.

Germany does not practice unrestricted jus soli.

 

[Ashes]

Took long enough, I think that was what the poster was saying.

Ah I see.

 

[Majukun]

So I read the police/security services have 3000 people on a watchlist and 500 "plots" under investigation. I'm normally very much for rule of law, and I don't think my idea honestly deviates much from that, but why can't they just arrest all of these people. It would take extraordinary measures and resources, but we're a county that can magic up hundreds of billions for quantitave easing or Trident, why not for the security of the citizens?

If there's 3000 people being watched, if they have evidence of ISIS sympathies and so on, that should be enough. That right there, given how quickly it feels like it takes these people to just decide to do an attack, and the fact that their state of mind does not care whether they die at the end, why can't we go and arrest and detain every single person who poses enough of a threat that they are currently under investigation?

And before anyone says, yes I ONLY want people who we have concrete evidence on, of showing sympathies with ISIS. Messages intercepted, talking on message forums about wishing harm on civilians, that should be enough. Once their minds are thinking like that it takes 5 minutes for them to grab a knife, at whatever moment they finally crack, and just create a terror incident like this. Enough is enough.

if they have concrete evidence no investigation would be needed don't you think?
the point is exactly that they don't have concrete evidence so they can't arrest them.

 

[Roufianos]

Unbelievable that these people think that God wants them to kill their fellow humans.

I refused to pass a Muslim man a football the other day. What does he do? He threatens to stab me. All because he was fasting and low on energy. Talk about a paradox. A man devout to his religion threatening to kill.

 

[Auraela]

May sayinh things cant carry on like this enough is enough

 

[GHG]

I think the over-arching point is that there are good people who are able to rationalise evil things as long as it comes from religion. Look at the story of Jericho or God's punishment of Ramses. People justify the rationale, or dismiss it as rhetoric. They would not apply the same level of moral relativism if religion were not involved.

If you're able to rationalise evil actions in any context then you are not a good person. The quote is bullshit.

 

[Izuna]

Unbelievable that these people think that God wants them to kill their fellow humans.

I refused to pass a Muslim man a football the other day. What does he do? He threatens to stab me. All because he was fasting and low on energy. Talk about a paradox. A man devout to his religion threatening to kill.

Is this from a Frankie Boyle stand-up or something?

 

[cormack12]

May says we must adapt in four ways:


Ideology - extremist Islamism perversion of the truth. Prove our values our superior to those of hate and evil;
Internet - regulation with ISP/Google etc. to prevent a safe space for terrorism to breed unchecked;
Military - intervention, both abroad and domestic. We are tolerant of terrorism, especially public sector??;
Review counter terrorism strategy - Increase sentences for less serious crimes with terrorist links.

Edit: quote on tolerance. Must take action at home. We have made significant progress. Too muh tolerance of extremism. Have to be more robust identifying it across the public sector and society.

 

[CortexVortex]

So I read the police/security services have 3000 people on a watchlist and 500 "plots" under investigation. I'm normally very much for rule of law, and I don't think my idea honestly deviates much from that, but why can't they just arrest all of these people. It would take extraordinary measures and resources, but we're a county that can magic up hundreds of billions for quantitave easing or Trident, why not for the security of the citizens?

If there's 3000 people being watched, if they have evidence of ISIS sympathies and so on, that should be enough. That right there, given how quickly it feels like it takes these people to just decide to do an attack, and the fact that their state of mind does not care whether they die at the end, why can't we go and arrest and detain every single person who poses enough of a threat that they are currently under investigation?

And before anyone says, yes I ONLY want people who we have concrete evidence on, of showing sympathies with ISIS. Messages intercepted, talking on message forums about wishing harm on civilians, that should be enough. Once their minds are thinking like that it takes 5 minutes for them to grab a knife, at whatever moment they finally crack, and just create a terror incident like this. Enough is enough.

Totally agree with you.
I've had enough of these fuckers.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

May was just talking about policing extremism by regulating the Internet.

Everything is going to change.

 

[Ushay]

Unbelievable that these people think that God wants them to kill their fellow humans.

I refused to pass a Muslim man a football the other day. What does he do? He threatens to stab me. All because he was fasting and low on energy. Talk about a paradox. A man devout to his religion threatening to kill.

Context?

 

[KingSnake]

Unbelievable that these people think that God wants them to kill their fellow humans.

I refused to pass a Muslim man a football the other day. What does he do? He threatens to stab me. All because he was fasting and low on energy. Talk about a paradox. A man devout to his religion threatening to kill.

Considering your previous posts in this thread this story must be true. So he told you that he is a Muslim and he's fasting and that's why he is going to stab you while playing football at the same time?

 

[kittoo]

I don't get the argument that 'these people were british born so nothing to do with immigration'. Werent the parents immigrants? If the children of today's immigrants do terrorist attacks tomorrow, wouldn't it still have something to do with immigration? Yes these people are british born, but aren't they ethnically pakistani or Moroccan or libya and all are Muslim? How does it have nothing to do with immigration or religion? I just fail to understand the argument.

 

[bosseye]

Awful news, utterly abhorrent.

Very hard to prevent when all you need now to carry out an act of terrorism is access to a vehicle and a bread knife, something almost anyone can obtain with zero effort. Its going to make identifying those likely to do this sort of thing much more important, but also by vastly harder when it can occur almost on a whim with zero planning.

 

[orochi91]

I don't get the argument that 'these people were british born so nothing to do with immigration'. Werent the parents immigrants? If the children of today's immigrants do terrorist attacks tomorrow, wouldn't it still have something to do with immigration? Yes these people are british born, but aren't they ethnically pakistani or Moroccan or libya and all are Muslim? How does it have nothing to do with immigration or religion? I just fail to understand the argument.

They are citizens, hence they have full rights and protection like any other citizen.

Them being born from immigrant parents is irrelevant.

 

[Majukun]

I don't get the argument that 'these people were british born so nothing to do with immigration'. Werent the parents immigrants? If the children of today's immigrants do terrorist attacks tomorrow, wouldn't it still have something to do with immigration? Yes these people are british born, but aren't they ethnically pakistani or Moroccan or libya and all are Muslim? How does it have nothing to do with immigration or religion? I just fail to understand the argument.

the argument that it's useless to close the barn when the cattle is already out (or in this case,in)
you are trying to get more safe by denying access in your country for people that are fleeing from death and destruction in their homeland when you already have people getting radicalized inside your country at this very moment.

you would basically denying help for people in need for no reason whatsoever.