Bumblebeetuna
Member
Doesn't have anything to do with the war to the people flying the flag though.
Texas School bans Confederate battle flag
- Thread starter Measley
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Doesn't have anything to do with the war to the people flying the flag though.
Takamura-San
Member
Yet there are people donning the confederate flag that have yet to reach the right conclusion on that matter.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Good decision.
right. It's about a proud history, which of course includes slavery and genocide and reminds all descendants of that past every time it's seen.
right. It's about a proud history, which of course includes slavery and genocide and reminds all descendants of that past every time it's seen.
Some seem to be unaware that the meaning of symbols can change over time.
vas_a_morir
Banned
And calling them 'losers' is typical American arrogance. Given the circumstances and the great advantages with both industrial and military infrastructure, the USA kinda won in a less than impressive way themselves.
EDIT: Fixed it to make it more clear that I in no way identify with the CSA, as not only was it disbanded 120 years before my birth, but also because I am not from a Confederate state and have a family history of Union soldiers.
CharlieDigital
Banned
I get it. It's this idea that "Hey man, you can't tell me what to do. I'm my own fucking island right here."
But yeah, here's the memo: the Union did tell you what to do.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
By this logic we shouldn't fly the US flag either I guess. Thanks for settling that.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Jokes on you. We don't fly the same flag as we did then.
Dr.NoiseWater
Member
The posts linking to fuckthesouth.com or the post saying Southerners are all rednecks or saying Southerners are sore losers. Generalizing the south as Republicans serving the interest of the South rising again.
Lincoln was a Republican. Plus, I would venture to guess everyone hurt and everyone lost. There wwere no winners or losers but a broken nation. If we boast that we are such a tolerable nation then why care so much? There are many other things that I don't like though my own personal bias but I have to accept it.
...wow. Just wow. It's always amazing to see anyone that lump the Confederacy in with themselves by saying "we." You actually WANT to be associated with that institution? You're DEFENDING them, patting them on the back and saying "they did a pretty good job fighting for racism, considering the circumstances!"
Although the Confederate flag (in various incarnations) was flown throughout Reconstruction and into the 20th century, the Confederate flag as we recognize it (the stars and bars) didnt come into popular use until the 1950s and the beginning of federally-mandated desegregation, where it was used primarily to signal opposition to desegregation.
CharlieDigital
Banned
BINGO.
For this exact reason, the Confederate flag should just be relegated to history. You've seen the light but do not know it yet. It is precisely for this reason that everyone groans when someone so proudly flies the Confederate flag.
It is a symbol of a group of Men who divided the country and a group of Men who lost to a greater, more unified future of awesome.
So, to my Southern Brothers and Sisters, let it go.
Dr.NoiseWater
Member
No, I am just generalizing and asking where is compassion and forgiveness in the U.S.? It has nothing to do the the Texas school system and the flag but in light of where the thread is going, I am just curious to know.
oh you don't know how much a pain in my ass that is....
Dr.NoiseWater
Member
I'm not against you and I do not own a confederate flag. I was just trying to remain objective.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Right, because the US stopped with atrocities in 1960.
Guess we get a clean slate sometime soon though if PR becomes a state.
Generally posts have been pretty clear that the "fucks" are towards those that project the Confederate flag.
And there were absolutely winners and losers. America won the war. It was horrible, of course, but a huge amont of benefits came out of it that made the struggle worth it in the long run.
Also, BTW, Lincoln was not a Republican as Republicans exist today. The label has a totally different meaning, and it makes anything else you say harder to take seriously.
I think you quoted the wrong post.
CharlieDigital
Banned
I accept that, but you've yourself hit on the reason why the Confederate flag is groan inducing to many.
Perhaps my schtick in this thread was too heavy, but I wanted to convey the point and the caricature of one that defends this view that there is any good reason to fly the Confederate flag or the other side -- boasting about the victory.
When one flies the Confederate flag, it is necessarily digging up old bones and dividing those of us that live in the United States of America, all 50 states, of all colors, of all races, striving to make this a better nation. It's not that we should not acknowledge the event, but that we should do so with the perspective of where we are today. Would the United States be better if the South had won? Would we be better as a nation divided? What would the world look like if the South still had slavery today?
Do you see where I'm going with this?
Thats what years of demonizing it will do to perception. There's no skull and crossbones or anything otherwise aggressive or evil about it. The swastika looks evil to most people, too, even though its just a pretty benign symbol from an aesthetic standpoint.
Dr.NoiseWater
Member
Call it what you want. Was he or was he not a Republican? He was.
Nah, to me it's just the colour combination and the design.
Dr.NoiseWater
Member
I see where your going and I respect your opinion.
Objectivity in experimentation. On these sorts of things, you can decide for yourself. If you received one as a gift, what would you do with it?
Also, Lincoln was a Federalist Republican, which is like a bizarro Republican today. He was anti states rights, anti slavery, but he wasn't pro integration or anything like that. Progressive for the time. But the times were shitty.
I was talking pre-Civil War, when segregation was alive and well in the Northern States. http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/freedom/1865-1917/essays/segregation.htm
But from the way I wrote my statement, it was incorrect.
And if I said a guy looked "gay" a hundred years ago, people would think I meant he looked happy. If I said that today, they would think I meant he looked like a homosexual. The meaning of words change, and to ignore that is just willfully ignorant.
ElectricBlue187
Member
so, deal with it? What do you usually do when people enjoy something you do not like? Do that.
I don't personally care if someone wants to fly a flag I dislike, I just shake my head and move on with my life.
Dr.NoiseWater
Member
Honestly, I don't know. If it was a flag that was flown in the Civil War or something like that, then I would keep it. If it was some store bought flag I would not keep it because I have no use for it.
We do. But it's just as much our right to call them out for being deeply flawed people as it is their right to be deeply flawed in the first place.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
Huh. I'm the other way around.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
How ironic that you say this and then in your next post say people are deeply flawed because of your own personal interpretation of what a flag from like 150 years ago means today.
Wow, I think I may have damaged my vision with how hard this made my eyes roll. The flag is the Confederate flag, and it is being used to...refer to the Confederacy. There is no evolution of meaning here. What a ridiculous thing to actually type out and post like it was some sort of cool "gotcha" moment.
No. There was a town in upstate NY that "seceded" in 1861, and then everyone forgot about it until the 1940s when the local newspaper unearthed this fact.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
If I wanted any cool type of "gotcha" moment I'd have quoted both posts. Just pointing out your mistake in logic is all. Just like your mistake here where you say people are using the flag to refer to the Confederacy.
Silas Lang
Member
I've lived in the south my whole life and can't stand the confederate flag. Living here I've heard the "heritage" arguments too many times but my god there are so many better ways to honor or appreciate your heritage than hanging that treasonous flag. Ugh. So glad the union won.
titiklabingapat
Member
The school district is funded mostly from funds from the United States. I don't see anything wrong with them banning an anti-USA symbol.
Ironically, most of these same people who obsess over the Confederate flag are the first in line to wrap themselves in the American flag and singing praises of patriotism and chanting U-S-A. If only they knew how anti-American and treasonous the confederate flag was and all it stood for (and I suspect, most don't).
Ironically, most of these same people who obsess over the Confederate flag are the first in line to wrap themselves in the American flag and singing praises of patriotism and chanting U-S-A. If only they knew how anti-American and treasonous the confederate flag was and all it stood for (and I suspect, most don't).
CharlieDigital
Banned
I'm fine with that.
So then by proxy, they should deal with being losers and being labeled whiny, sore losers at that ;-)
Re-read my posts in this thread and maybe you'll see what I'm getting at.
Do you see? It goes both ways.
Deal with it.
Dude Abides
Banned
I like Bumblebeetuna's postmodern approach. Symbols have no meaning, they simply mean whatever any particular individual wants them to mean. You might think the Confederate flag stands for the Confederacy because you know history, but I've decided it stands for gay rights!
Dr.NoiseWater
Member
It is the majority today who has interpreted what it stands for. How can you insist you know what it stands for to me? Or to anyone else for that matter.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Same here, Texas bro.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
I fly the flag of the Khmer Rouge as a show of support of the campaign for nuclear disarmament.
So I was right... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Line,_New_York
I hate to quote wikipedia but it is easy and I'm feeling lazy.
Dr.NoiseWater
Member
That is awesome for you to think that. It means different things to different people.
Funny, I was going to comment on this.
I have a General Lee replica. I'm not too big on the flag myself - I mean, it looks nice, yes, but it does have some bad history behind it. However, the general public - all races, see the car as 'Hey, it's just a good ol' boy' rather than 'Hey this dude's a racist'. But then again, the Dukes were all about helping one another and fighting corruption, and a lot of people grew up watching the show.
Its the folks growing up now that says 'Hey, that's messed up!" and the like.
For a lot of people, yes, there is.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Wow that is pretty crazy.
Dude Abides
Banned
Yeah, but I've also decided that your avatar means "kill the Jews" so I'm pretty offended here.
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