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The 2013 Formula 1 Pre-Season Thread |OT| Plenty of Time Left in the Silly Season
- Thread starter Leunam
- Start date
Haha!
Psychotext
Member
Sergio Perez said that degradation is 'extreme'. Alonso said that you have 1 or maybe 2 laps to evaluate the car, after that, times will drop like stones. Di Resta is also reporting big degradation... but i am confident that tires in Melbourne will be much more durable
Mastah
Member
This just proves Pirelli aren't up to F1 standards. Last year it was ridiculously narrow working range and now the degradation is massive. What they have in store for next year, if their contract is renewed? Built-in blistering and graining as part of "the show"?
When every single driver reports massive tyre degradation, from world champions Vettel and Alonso to "tyre whisperer" Checo to Hulk in superb on tyres Sauber, you know there is a huge problem. Seriously, what is the point of testing, when you can test your car only for 2-3 laps, because after that tyres are finished and feeling from the car is irrelevant? If they are so critical about it in front of camera, you have to wonder what is being told behind the scenes.
When every single driver reports massive tyre degradation, from world champions Vettel and Alonso to "tyre whisperer" Checo to Hulk in superb on tyres Sauber, you know there is a huge problem. Seriously, what is the point of testing, when you can test your car only for 2-3 laps, because after that tyres are finished and feeling from the car is irrelevant? If they are so critical about it in front of camera, you have to wonder what is being told behind the scenes.
Psychotext
Member
Like it or not, it's pretty much what they were told to do. In a few races most teams will have it under control anyway.
Mastah
Member
Nicktendo86
Member
Well that is pretty damning. Unjust put it down to the cold weather but it sounds like they have non idea what is going on.
Crap, what was the site a couple people used last year? Unfortunately I'm sure a lot of the people in the GAF league on F1RM no longer visit GAF.
brotkasten
Member
You know, if Pirelli would be allowed to use a car that fits the current regulations, maybe teams wouldn't have such problems. They're using a 2010 Renault R30 right now and bought an old 2011 HRT, because it's a bit closer to the current regs. The FIA should provide them with a spec car at least.
Bugger
What are our alts? So we all want to chip in for a pay comp or something?Yeah, I remember when I last read about whatever Pirelli used for their test car and it was a good few years old. Surprised FIA doesn't somehow pony up to at least get them a previous season's car.
Looking for a new league, they all seem a bit arbitrary on their rules and setup so far, or they seem to want you to pick a team at the start of the season and not make many changes.
Edit: Based on a quick search http://www.fantasyf1league.com/ seems to be the most interesting. Fixed budget though.
Edit: Based on a quick search http://www.fantasyf1league.com/ seems to be the most interesting. Fixed budget though.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
If they're going to run their own car, it needs to either be old enough to not be beneficial to whoever built the car or a custom spec car. Both have rather obvious drawbacks.
Obvious solution would be to just have more than one team lend a year old car for tire testing. Or have that on a rotational basis, thus in 11 years each team would have once provided the test car and advantages gained by doing so would be spread out evenly.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
Running a year old car raises too many possibilities of covert testing, there's a reason teams have to wait a number of years (I forget if it's 2 or 3) before they can run them. It's also costly to do so, and would require a team of people from the car's manufacturers to run it efficiently (and to ensure they don't give away any secrets).
The rotational aspect to level any potential gains is also moot if it takes 11 years to come around. And even that is assuming that the sport won't be completely different in 11 years, which it will be.
There's no easy solution for tyre testing, if there was, they'd be doing it already. But as it is, it doesn't really matter if the tyres aren't doing what Pirelli expects as every team is equally in the dark.
Well, assuming they couldn't run their own car, surely they'd be able to have the equivalent of a wind tunnel where they could simulate tyre wear? I (obviously) haven't thought it through that much, but car companies simulate all sorts of shit without having to put their product out into the real world. Surely a company as big as Pirelli could find figures on the sort of pressures and temperatures etc. that F1 rubber goes through and mimic that in a laboratory or something somewhere.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
How are they going to simulate cars that don't exist yet? Teams aren't going to provide them with their designs, so Pirelli would need to hire people to design their own virtual car... Presumably at great expense.
Then there's simulating their rubber, which is another whole bag of balls.
Psychotext
Member
Sounds like a broken qualification tyre.Whilst that is pretty terrible, they did say they were super soft
I don't mean simulating simulating... I mean... make a tyre, put it on an axle that's modeled *something like* an F1 car would have, squeeze in roughly the amount of air that an F1 car uses, create a tarmac-like surface on something like a dynamometer and push one against the other in temps similar to track temps at different locations and at speeds similar to F1 cars and there you go.
If you thought I meant just punching a bunch of numbers into a computer, I apologise. The above thing is what I was picturing in my head the whole time I was talking about "tyre simulation".
Nicktendo86
Member
True but they should be super soft rubber, not super soft cheese.Whilst that is pretty terrible, they did say they were super soft
Psychotext
Member
Webber having problems? He's not been out for ages.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
If that's possible, I'm sure they already do it. There's so much variation in track surface and temperature throughout the year though that I imagine it's a bit fruitless, even if they can build such a rig.
Lotus look like they've kept their kindness to their tyres and not sure what to make of Nico and Mark's running. Nico had blips here and there but looked pretty consistent and competitive for the most part and Mark's stints looked pretty topsy turvy. Then the Ferrari and Mclaren don't seem to be looking after their tyres that much but hey this is testing, ugh the wait for Melbourne is getting tough.
Mastah
Member
Comparing their times on high fuel between yesterday and today, it looks like Checo is not only faster, but can use his tyres for longer. Of course I don't know anything about how much fuel they had or what kind of set-ups they were using, so I can be completely wrong, but it still makes me smile.
I really, really hope Checo will prove me right in what I saw last year during almost all races, including the ones which finished badly.
I really, really hope Checo will prove me right in what I saw last year during almost all races, including the ones which finished badly.
Psychotext
Member
Button is a habitual whiner. Not to mention that Checo is bound to be happier given he's coming from a Sauber for comparison.
What's all this about?
Sometimes it just seems that they literally have no idea how a tyre is going to perform under any conditions at all, though. I'd think they have some kind of facility like I described, but with the way they react to the tyres behaviour in the real world, you have to wonder. Most of the time, they're genuinely surprised one way or the other.
If only we had a website we regularly went to where we could decide such a thing.
brotkasten
Member
If you want to watch how a Pirelli F1 tyre is made, click this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG3sdF8IXyA
Psychotext
Member
There was about a two and a half hour period that he didn't come out for. I was wondering why.
Currently watching The Team - A Season with McLaren ('93). Good miniseries so far. Good Senna footage, even though I'm not the biggest Senna fan. Yawn at Michael Andretti in it, lol.
e* do Sky Sports sedate Craig Slater before each testing highlight show? He seems the least bit interested.
e* do Sky Sports sedate Craig Slater before each testing highlight show? He seems the least bit interested.
If only we had a website we regularly went to where we could decide such a thing.
If only someone had stored the f1rm scoring system so someone might be able to attempt a semi decent clone as a side project...
edit: Or if someone had a good idea for a scoring system that they would be willing to share...
edit 2: Expect a mockup sometime this weekend, not going to make it a manager type thing but rather a straight pickem type thing (takes the complication out of pricing the various drivers/teams/ect).
bobnowhere
Member
There was a comp I used to enter years ago on planet-f1 that had an interesting twist. You picked 1-10 in the race and 1-3ish in qualifying, but the points were reversed. Picking first place in the race yielded 1 point and correctly picking 10th got you 10 points. The thought was it's easier to pick Vettel winning the race that say Di Resta finishing 10th. It was the same process in qually.
You could also make as many predictions for the race as you like and be rewarded points if they happened, but the catch was you would lose points if it didn't happen. They dude running it awarded points on the likelihood it would happen at his discretion. You might only get a couple points if you accurately predict Grosjean will skittle the field at the first corner but you might get heaps/lose heaps if you predict button to drop to last place at some point but still win/or not!
You could also make as many predictions for the race as you like and be rewarded points if they happened, but the catch was you would lose points if it didn't happen. They dude running it awarded points on the likelihood it would happen at his discretion. You might only get a couple points if you accurately predict Grosjean will skittle the field at the first corner but you might get heaps/lose heaps if you predict button to drop to last place at some point but still win/or not!
I had no idea Alonso actually had a Samurai tattoo on his back.
Yeah, he posted it a few months ago when he got it.
I had no idea Alonso actually had a Samurai tattoo on his back.
Ewww...
brotkasten
Member
So that's why Hamilton had to get one too!
Psychotext
Member
Yup.
Alonso put this pic up after the fitst day of testing to show his bruises from driving.
Fernando is all about that weeaboo life.
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