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[xsarien]

I have never once blamed anyone for our country loosing it's morality. In fact I said just the opposite on page 2 of this thread. Have I ever once said that someone of a different sex, race or religion should not be allowed to have the same rights I have? If that's what you think, you must have misunderstood what I've said at some point, because I truly do not believe that. For the record, I have two step brothers who are gay, my step sister had an abortion and my sister-in-law had one as well. I would never condemn anyone for that. In fact I said the opposite on page two as well.

But surely these (convenient) facts, by your own words, makes your siblings part of the "moral decay" of our country. Ergo, you're placing yourself above them from a moral standpoint, ergo you're judging them.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

how does that quote go? "judge not, lest ye be judged first?" or something like that......

 

[Dan]

Catholics/Christians respect human life above all. Life begins at the moment of conception. Just because someone is not fit to raise a child doesn't mean they should have the right to destroy one.

That's irrelevant. MadOdorMachine is saying that Christians are losing rights. Whether abortion is moral or not, legal or not, whatever, its use does not reduce the rights of Christians.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

So you support your step brothers having a happy healthy and safe partnership with the person they care for then?

I do not support their behavior, but I do not love them any less. Do you have any siblings? Have they ever screwed up and did something, like drug use, stealing, or something that you wished they wouldn't do? It's the same thing here. How am I helping anyone by hating them? A sin is a sin. It's not a person. Don't you see, it's not the person I have a problem with.

 

[xsarien]

I do not support their behavior, but I do not love them any less. Do you have any siblings? Have they ever screwed up and did something.

Yet you equate having an abortion and a gay relationship as "screwing up" along the lines of much more real, physical (or legal) problems.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

But surely these (convenient) facts, by your own words, makes your siblings part of the "moral decay" of our country. Ergo, you're placing yourself above them from a moral standpoint, ergo you're judging them.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that and I don't appreciate that. In fact I said that God sees all sins equally except blasphemy. It doesn't matter if you've murdered, stolen or committed adultry, a sin is a sin in his eyes. I have never once said that I am without sin or better than anyone else for that matter.

 

[pnjtony]

Yes, but being gay isn't hurting anyone where shooting heroin does...bad comparison broseph.

That's what i don't get with the anti-gay marriage movement. They're not lobbying to make homosexuality illegal, they just don't want to afford them the same benefits that heterosexuals recieve. I mean married or not, civil union or not the fundies know that gays will still live as married couples but I don't really see them up in arms about that. It's only when a gay couple wants the benefit of being on his/her partners health insurance or being counted as next of kin, simplee rights that everyone else takes for granted.

 

[DaMan121]

I do not support their behavior, but I do not love them any less. Do you have any siblings? Have they ever screwed up and did something, like drug use, stealing, or something that you wished they wouldn't do? It's the same thing here. How am I helping anyone by hating them? A sin is a sin. It's not a person. Don't you see, it's not the person I have a problem with.

But arent we all sinners anyway? From the moment we are conceived? The stupid (one of many) concept of original sin means that you are no better than anyone else. By the way, do you eat shellfish? Do you work on Sunday?

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Yet you equate having an abortion and a gay relationship as "screwing up" along the lines of much more real, physical (or legal) problems.

How is that not a physical problem? There are several other people I know who have had abortions and can no longer have kids. I'm positive one of my brothers is now sick and in fact dying. Everytime I see him he has lost weight and it's obvious his health is poor. It doesn't get any more real than that.

 

[Warm Machine]

But arent we all sinners anyway? From the moment we are conceived? The stupid (one of many) concept of original sin means that you are no better than anyone else. By the way, do you eat shellfish? Do you work on Sunday?

You mean Saturday The real day is said to be saturday but because the planet has time zones and no one really knows when certain things are supposed to happen its all a crap shoot.

 

[pnjtony]

How is that not a physical problem? There are several other people I know who have had abortions and can no longer have kids. I'm positive one of my brothers is now sick and in fact dying. Everytime I see him he has lost weight and it's obvious his health is poor. It doesn't get any more real than that.

Well unless he has AIDS it's not because he's gay...if that were the case I'd say that african-american women shoudn't be allowed to have partners or get married or have sex because they actually account for the highest concentration of HIV/AIDS

 

[DaMan121]

You mean Saturday The real day is said to be saturday but because the planet has time zones and no one really knows when certain things are supposed to happen its all a crap shoot.

I say dont work on any day just to be safe

 

[CrunchyB]

Do you work on Sunday?

The sabbath is on Saturday, Sunday is the first day of the week.

Catholics moved the sabbath up a day to Sunday...for reasons nobody really knows.

 

[xsarien]

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that and I don't appreciate that. In fact I said that God sees all sins equally except blasphemy. It doesn't matter if you've murdered, stolen or committed adultry, a sin is a sin in his eyes. I have never once said that I am without sin or better than anyone else for that matter.

Oh, I think some omnipotent, all-seeing, all-knowing being would be able to see the difference between "OK, let's see, you two guys slept with each other," and "You raped two little girls and a dog."

Just a hunch, and there are plenty of parts of the Bible that we no longer adhere to, either for common sense reasons or strictly out of convenience.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Well unless he has AIDS it's not because he's gay...if that were the case I'd say that african-american women shoudn't be allowed to have partners or get married or have sex because they actually account for the highest concentration of HIV/AIDS

Only gay people get AIDS!

 

[pnjtony]

Oh, I think some omnipotent, all-seeing, all-knowing being would be able to see the difference between "OK, let's see, you two guys slept with each other," and "You raped two little girls and a dog."

Just a hunch, and there are plenty of parts of the Bible that we no longer adhere to, either for common sense reasons or strictly out of convenience.

not according to christians i've talked to. They say god sees murder and lying as the same thing and you'll burn equally for both. Just ask Kirk Cameron.
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/

 

[DaMan121]

Just a hunch, and there are plenty of parts of the Bible that we no longer adhere to, either for common sense reasons or strictly out of convenience.

It becomes apparent by READING the bible, both OT and NT, that our civilization today is ALOT more moral than the guys that wrote them. Lets face it, they were ignorant (not only of science, but common sense), sexist, racist and homophobic. Not to say that everyone from that time were (accomplishements in mathematics and philosophy etc).

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Oh, I think some omnipotent, all-seeing, all-knowing being would be able to see the difference between "OK, let's see, you two guys slept with each other," and "You raped two little girls and a dog."

Just a hunch, and there are plenty of parts of the Bible that we no longer adhere to, either for common sense reasons or strictly out of convenience .

My point exactly.

 

[pnjtony]

so you're saying we should adhere to the bible as strict as possible even if it's not convinient?

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

A life of convenience is not a great aspiration for most.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

so you're saying we should adhere to the bible as strict as possible even if it's not convinient?

I think if we all tried to live by the Bible, there would be a lot less problems in the world.

 

[pnjtony]

way to tip toe around the question

 

[GaimeGuy]

I think if we all tried to live by the Bible, there would be a lot less problems in the world.

Ever heard of the Middle Ages?

 

[DaMan121]

I think if we all tried to live by the Bible, there would be a lot less problems in the world.

But thats what people ARE / WERE doing. When you have the Nazi's and the KKK using your book to commit atrocities, you know that it is either a) Really a hate book b) Not very clear at all, and useless as a moral guide. Isnt it a coincidence that you interpet the bible to fit into your own moral system, and ignore / dismiss as alegories / excuse the ones you dont agree with.

 

[fart]

IF YOU CANNOT SEE REASON AND CANNOT MAKE A REASONABLE ARGUMENT IN YOUR DEFENSE (no because i said so is not a reasonable argument) STOP FUCKING POSTING.

 

[pnjtony]

I think if we all tried to live by the Bible, there would be a lot less problems in the world.

Same could be said for Buddhism...you willing to convert everyone to Buddhism with me? World would be a much happier place if we did!

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Of course I think we should adhere to the Bible. Yeah, it may be inconvenient to not be able to go down to the store for milk on Sunday (or Saturday if you want to be specific) but guess what, life goes on. We might actually find it not as inconvenient as we had thought as well.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Of course I think we should adhere to the Bible. Yeah, it may be inconvenient to not be able to go down to the store for milk on Sunday (or Saturday if you want to be specific) but guess what, life goes on. We might actually find it not as inconvenient as we had thought as well.

You didn't bother responding to my post about the Middle Ages.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

You didn't bother responding to my post about the Middle Ages.

Sorry. There are a lot of people resonding to me, but I am only one person. It's hard to reply to everyone. To answer your question, yes, I have heard of the middle ages.

 

[teh_pwn]

I don't think not shopping on Sunday is going to solve the consumer whorism that goes on all the time. That's the real problem with society. Pratically everyone's in debt. Everyone tries to live a lifestyle that's what they see on TV. Something glamorous that only celeberties live.

I actually hate how shops close early on Sunday. I'll be studying or something and then I'll workout and then I need to go to the store. Everything is closed at 6pm? Well f*ck them, I'll go to Walmart.

Morals are dependent on the individual. Religion may be a path for some people but saying that all people should do it that way is a bit blind.

 

[pnjtony]

Of course I think we should adhere to the Bible. Yeah, it may be inconvenient to not be able to go down to the store for milk on Sunday (or Saturday if you want to be specific) but guess what, life goes on. We might actually find it not as inconvenient as we had thought as well.

So by adhere to the bible we should give away all our money, marry the girls we rape and beat our slaves within inches on killing them? Oh yeah, and kill our sons that talk back to us. Yeah, the Bible is great.

 

[Dilbert]

Sorry. There are a lot of people resonding to me, but I am only one person. It's hard to reply to everyone. To answer your question, yes, I have heard of the middle ages.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[ManDudeChild]

Of course I think we should adhere to the Bible. Yeah, it may be inconvenient to not be able to go down to the store for milk on Sunday (or Saturday if you want to be specific) but guess what, life goes on. We might actually find it not as inconvenient as we had thought as well.

I say this not as a troll, but to pose this as a question but: Have you considered that perhaps not taking these 'holy books' as seriously as they're taking would make for a better world? You can cut it anyway you want, with your god being the only true one and you know, that's your choice, but in the grand scheme of things, does the road traveled matter as much as what we learn along the way. I don't believe in religion, I find it to be ... well Marx said it best.

"Religion is the opiate of the masses.

But despite my views, I'm not an evil person, I donate to charity, I try to help people when I can. I say this not to toot my horn, but pose that the road doesn't matter, and debating over something so silly that logically makes little sense wastes time. What's wrong with homosexuals? Why are those not believing in god going to hell? How can peopel worship a being that if it created us and controls us all (thus making the question of free will surface) would condeme the good just because of no worship. What kind of vain creature is that? I don't know if I'm making much sense but ... don't we as a race have more important things to deal with than such trivial matters? I recall a story not too long ago about money being rejected in Africa due to the support of homosexuals or something along those lines (it was from a thread posted here actuall). Do you believe that they will embrace the grace of your god while suffering.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, and if I'm coming off as one, I'm apologize... but really, does it really matter if we follow a book made by man, as long as we're good people? Just my take. Make of it what you will.

 

[teh_pwn]

Yeah, the Bible has many immoral teachings too. That's why I would never ever live by it.

 

[videogamer]

No other religion is as persecuted as Christianity.

Why argue with only one religion? There are many other religions out there. Persecuted ones too. In your mind, is Chistianity the only religion being significantly hated upon?

In terms of the persecuted quotient, Christianity does have the advantage (or is it disadvantage) of being an older religion. However, there are other religions that have been persecuted too. How about Judaism? If you count their religious texts, they have quite the history of persecution too. How about Santería? The slaves were not allowed to practice their religion so they hid it behind Catholic saints. After the Cuban Revolution, the religion was banned again. In America they have been hounded by the government and PETA because of animal sacrifice.

 

[Boogie]

But thats what people ARE / WERE doing. When you have the Nazi's and the KKK using your book to commit atrocities, you know that it is either a) Really a hate book b) Not very clear at all, and useless as a moral guide. Isnt it a coincidence that you interpet the bible to fit into your own moral system, and ignore / dismiss as alegories / excuse the ones you dont agree with.

The Nazis weren't waving the Bible around when pulling their shit.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Sorry. There are a lot of people resonding to me, but I am only one person. It's hard to reply to everyone. To answer your question, yes, I have heard of the middle ages.

...

*sigh*

 

[MadOdorMachine]

So by adhere to the bible we should give away all our money, marry the girls we rape and beat our slaves within inches on killing them? Oh yeah, and kill our sons that talk back to us. Yeah, the Bible is great.

If we all adhered to the Bible, none of that would be necessary. What scripture are you referring to in regaurds to killing your son for talking back? I don't recall ever reading or hearing that.

 

[pnjtony]

being that christianity(2.1 billion) accounts for the largest religious groups...just numbers along shows that it's "technically" the most hated on with islam(1.3 billion) coming in second. I'm not arguing for the guy, just stating that since there are more christians, they could technically be counted as the most persecuted. Jews only account for 14 million people. The least was scientology at 500 thousand

 

[GaimeGuy]

being that christianity(2.1 billion) accounts for the largest religious groups...just numbers along shows that it's "technically" the most hated on with islam(1.3 billion) coming in second. I'm not arguing for the guy, just stating that since there are more christians, they could technically be counted as the most persecuted. Jews only account for 14 million people. The least was scientology at 500 thousand

That's not the religion which being persecuted, then. That's the individuals of the particular religion.

 

[pnjtony]

If we all adhered to the Bible, none of that would be necessary. What scripture are you referring to in regaurds to killing your son for talking back? I don't recall ever reading or hearing that.

Dude I'd have to dig a while for that, I ran across it randomly but I do remember checking the bible for accuracy. I'll try to dig it up and PM you cause this topic will long since be gone.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[etiolate]

There's just two different perspectives here that can't see each other at all. Everyone should take a step outside of themselves and see what is distressing to everyone.

I am not of the same sect of someone like ManOdorMachine, but I am not going to piss on his beliefs. And I understand how in his concept of life that he feels his Christian ways are being forced to be secular. For example, if you have a kid there is pressure to provide that child sex education, possibly condoms, and whatever things a public health policy asks you to be concerned about. These might be very much against your beliefs, they might feel like playing the devil. Then you have someone in Goverment advise a very strict Christian idea of addressing the issue and people on ther other side feel like it's suddenly Jesusland. Eventually you have everyone feeling like they aren't free to live how they feel they should. Right now there is a strong negative current against Christianity and there is also a strong abuse of Evangelical Goverment, a holier than thou approach to ruling. They feed off each other and I don't like where it's heading.

 

[GaimeGuy]

My point is, life throughout all of europe was centered around the bible during the Middle Ages, and it was arguably the most messed up period since way before the Roman and Greek Empires.


You might even say it's the most messed up period in the history of western civilization.

 

[teh_pwn]

heh, I just came across this site:

I think you need to realize that the Bible should not be taken literally because it has many immoral teachings. Such as:

Endorsing Slavery:

http://quinnell.us/religion/reasons/slavery.html


Goes against common science:

http://quinnell.us/religion/reasons/science.html


Contradicting itself:

http://quinnell.us/religion/reasons/contradictions.html


God is himself Evil:

http://quinnell.us/religion/reasons/cruelty.html

 

[ManDudeChild]

There's just two different perspectives here that can't see each other at all. Everyone should take a step outside of themselves and see what is distressing to everyone.

I am not of the same sect of someone like ManOdorMachine, but I am not going to piss on his beliefs. And I understand how in his concept of life that he feels his Christian ways are being forced to be secular. For example, if you have a kid there is pressure to provide that child sex education, possibly condoms, and whatever things a public health policy asks you to be concerned about. These might be very much against your beliefs, they might feel like playing the devil. Then you have someone in Goverment advise a very strict Christian idea of addressing the issue and people on ther other side feel like it's suddenly Jesusland. Eventually you have everyone feeling like they aren't free to live how they feel they should. Right now there is a strong negative current against Christianity and there is also a strong abuse of Evangelical Goverment, a holier than thou approach to ruling. They feed off each other and I don't like where it's heading.

I 100% agrree. To an extent, personal beliefs are tredded upon by govering bodies. This however can be said for things beyond religion. Along those lines, despite this evident fact, I'd hardly call it justification for the person rights of other groups to be tread upon. An irony of life dont you think? That one group that might feel oppressed feel vindication through the oppression of another group? Just a thought.

 

[pnjtony]

If we all adhered to the Bible, none of that would be necessary. What scripture are you referring to in regaurds to killing your son for talking back? I don't recall ever reading or hearing that.

Found it!

Exodus 21:15 KJV
"And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021:15;&version=9;

 

[Boogie]

Found it!

Exodus 21:15 KJV
"And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021:15;&version=9;

Uh, smite != talk back to.

 

[gohepcat]

and Mary Magdelene, a prostitute, he defended against several people.

Oh for the love of friggin god, why does this error KEEP showing up!!!

Mary Magdelene WAS NOT A PROSTITTUTE. No where in the bible does it say she was a prostittute. All major christian religions have acknoldged this already for 30 years.

Please, if you say your a christian, please just get your facts straight.

 

[ManDudeChild]

Found it!

Exodus 21:15 KJV
"And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021:15;&version=9;

Or is this the right one..

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 21:15;&version=77;