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The American Taliban
- Thread starter weehomer
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I always enjoy it when somebody whose only education in history and politics is from Christian Reconstructionism decides to cry how Christianity is losing its ability to strongarm those of other faiths. Anyway, random thoughts and replies since I'm not going to bother making it coherent.
- Strict Seperation of Church and State is so that all religions enjoy equal rights, that one doesn't have the "right" to believe just because their faction happens to be in power at the time... but because government and government action explicitly cannot get involved in what they want to believe and practice.
- The strict interpetation was argued even more vigorously by many Framers, so don't go there.
- Public schooling is for all citizens of the nation. Teaching Christianity in a proscriptive context is a blatant infringement on the rights of those who are not Christian(and Constitutionally, have just as much rights).
- Prayer in school is not banned but rather prohibited from being a formalized part of schooling. Actually, this issue is almost microcosmic. Simply because they can't enjoy prayer in a formal and public setting where all must participate(doesn't Jesus condemn this sort of thing?), they claim prayer is banned... much like the "we're being persecuted" line.
- Ten Commandment monuments aren't an existing thing that's being taken away, but rather a recent attempt at cracking the wall between church and state that's been stopped.
- "Under God" is a 1950s artifact from Catholics in an anti-communist fervor. You can include it if you want, but you can't make others say it that way.
- BTW, Stop using 50s sitcoms and selective memory as your basis for arguments of moral decay.
- Strict Seperation of Church and State is so that all religions enjoy equal rights, that one doesn't have the "right" to believe just because their faction happens to be in power at the time... but because government and government action explicitly cannot get involved in what they want to believe and practice.
- The strict interpetation was argued even more vigorously by many Framers, so don't go there.
- Public schooling is for all citizens of the nation. Teaching Christianity in a proscriptive context is a blatant infringement on the rights of those who are not Christian(and Constitutionally, have just as much rights).
Maybe, maybe not. What is known is that many Christians have transformed early persecution into a huge persecution complex, despite having enjoyed a great deal of success and being one of the World's major religions.
Christian Reconstructionalism, the idea that America was founded a Christian nation and must be fulfilled in Christian theocratic rule, is a fundamentalist viewpoint, if you weren't aware. While you may not actually support this, you ARE reciting their memes.
*groan*
Right to WHAT, exactly? Right to push your beliefs into law? Right to spend the day without seeing others doing what you personally disagree with? Right to raise your children in a completely homogenous environment? Christians haven't been forced to do anything but keep their beliefs in the private sector like everyone else, but obviously that crosses them deeply.
- Prayer in school is not banned but rather prohibited from being a formalized part of schooling. Actually, this issue is almost microcosmic. Simply because they can't enjoy prayer in a formal and public setting where all must participate(doesn't Jesus condemn this sort of thing?), they claim prayer is banned... much like the "we're being persecuted" line.
- Ten Commandment monuments aren't an existing thing that's being taken away, but rather a recent attempt at cracking the wall between church and state that's been stopped.
- "Under God" is a 1950s artifact from Catholics in an anti-communist fervor. You can include it if you want, but you can't make others say it that way.
- BTW, Stop using 50s sitcoms and selective memory as your basis for arguments of moral decay.
Christoff Yurievich
Member
heh...does it matter that that's the reason I mentioned the book at all?Boogie said:
Father_Brain
Banned
Justin Bailey
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I don't agree with the gay marriage being a sin thing, but an argument against that is that the act of a felon getting married is not a sin whereas an the actual act of being gay is.pnjtony said:
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Well, maybe it wasn't Mary Magdalene, but it was a prostitute washing his feet. There was also the woman at the well in Samaria.gohepcat said:
Oh man. I'm a christian, and when people find out they always say "But you're so cool! I don't get it..." I never understood their responses until tonight. If my fellow christians are out there trying to conform the world to their view then I cannot say I blame the responses I get. I fear that christianity in some sects has become more about fear than about love, more about power than service more about anger than peace.
Jesus himself says "By their fruits ye shall know them." I see so many churches that all they do peddle hate and intolerance, they sell the whole image about christians being persecuted, in a lower state than they should, a victim. "oh the world is evil the world is bad. The world hates you." Then make them feel superior, "You're so much better than those Godless heathens! Are you going to let them take over the world? Are you going to let this become a Godless society?" I believe as I believe for my own reasons and will not give it up. However, I fear nothing good can come of this kind of christianity.
Jesus himself says "By their fruits ye shall know them." I see so many churches that all they do peddle hate and intolerance, they sell the whole image about christians being persecuted, in a lower state than they should, a victim. "oh the world is evil the world is bad. The world hates you." Then make them feel superior, "You're so much better than those Godless heathens! Are you going to let them take over the world? Are you going to let this become a Godless society?" I believe as I believe for my own reasons and will not give it up. However, I fear nothing good can come of this kind of christianity.
MadOdorMachine
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I'm not owned. That's from the old testament. The new testament is the new covenant. That's like saying we should still sacrifice lambs for our sins.Father_Brain said:
Attempting to espouse the word of God, feeble men, eh. How pathetic, for it is that the law of the heavens, the celestial law that governs all that can be, exists and operates across all that is. The Divine laws, that is the physical laws and logical laws that govern reality cannot be overridden, and they allow for many a thing to be, things, humane and inhumane, that some would consider even impossible. These laws are an intrinsic part of this world, and it's a sad and pathetic thing to see many who attempt to speak in the name of the Divine, attempt to contradict such laws in their words, in their speeches, in their actions.
As for the political landscape in america, it's time of meaningfulness, of being meaningful, it seems is coming to an end in this century. Power has been concentrating, and such a thing is nearing it's logical end. At this moment, the power over the lives of billions rests in the hands of a few, few with power over weapons, weapons that exploit the power of the atom. Officials publicly and non-publicly elected have the trigger for armageddon at their fingertips, yet many are not fit for such, fit to wield such power. It seems, that power, power that so vastly surpasses that derived from the atom as to nullify it is to become available, and it will allow the few, this time amongst the fittest, to reshape the land and overcome all possible oppossition. For once this takes place it would seem there be no viable or possible resistance, for none can oppose that which cannot be opposed, that which overwhelms and is unstoppable.
Yet, catholics are said to oppose contraceptives and embrace natural attempts at reproduction... and without contraceptives... attempts at natural reproduction lead to embryo destruction, which is according to them destruction of life, which contradicts what they spouse. Logical contradictions within an argument are not viable, for they violate natural divine law, the celestial law that is interwoven with everything that can be. By doing so they attempt to oppose, the unopposable, the divine law embedded in the very fabric of that which is deemed as possible, they are heretics that deny the absolute and perpetual law that trascends all bounds.
As for the political landscape in america, it's time of meaningfulness, of being meaningful, it seems is coming to an end in this century. Power has been concentrating, and such a thing is nearing it's logical end. At this moment, the power over the lives of billions rests in the hands of a few, few with power over weapons, weapons that exploit the power of the atom. Officials publicly and non-publicly elected have the trigger for armageddon at their fingertips, yet many are not fit for such, fit to wield such power. It seems, that power, power that so vastly surpasses that derived from the atom as to nullify it is to become available, and it will allow the few, this time amongst the fittest, to reshape the land and overcome all possible oppossition. For once this takes place it would seem there be no viable or possible resistance, for none can oppose that which cannot be opposed, that which overwhelms and is unstoppable.
trippingmartian said:
Yet, catholics are said to oppose contraceptives and embrace natural attempts at reproduction... and without contraceptives... attempts at natural reproduction lead to embryo destruction, which is according to them destruction of life, which contradicts what they spouse. Logical contradictions within an argument are not viable, for they violate natural divine law, the celestial law that is interwoven with everything that can be. By doing so they attempt to oppose, the unopposable, the divine law embedded in the very fabric of that which is deemed as possible, they are heretics that deny the absolute and perpetual law that trascends all bounds.
Well, the bible only says it's a sin for them to be gay, not to be married, right?Justin Bailey said:
Btw: Although deuteronomy says that it's a sin to be homosexual, most jews (except for some orthodox jews and the hassidic jews) are tolerant of homosexuality.
Red Scarlet
Member
Yeah ronito, you are a cool Christian in my book.
Synbios459
Banned
Now I totally disagree with this. God did all of those things and since God can do anything of course all those things can happen, but we as loley humans obviously can't.
enjoy bell woods
Banned
That's quite a cop-out, loely synbios.
Warm Machine
Member
It was said best in Kingdom of Heaven...
"God will understand and if he doesn't, he's not God."
"God will understand and if he doesn't, he's not God."
Warm Machine
Member
Firest0rm said:It was something closer to that.
Thanks!
Justin Bailey
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GaimeGuy said:Well, the bible only says it's a sin for them to be gay, not to be married, right?
Yeah well that'd be kind of a stretch for someone with that mindset to support gay marriage when we all know what married couples do.Doesn't matter, it doesn't say sinners can't get married. And even if it did, the felons could ask forgiveness before they tie the knot.pnjtony said:
Excess Poo Flakes
Banned
That Rush Limbaugh quote about feminists is pretty funny.
weehomer said:
"With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew."
Pat Robertson
I wonder if Pat think God puts his fingers in his ears and says "LALALALALALLA I'm not listening LALALALALLALALALA".
So that whole Moses thing in the bible...just a coincidence...
*steps beside MadOdorMachine*
He's explaning his beliefs calmly and respectfully and isn't getting much in return. This is the exact opposite of the behavior so many of you base your opinions of Christians on. I'm a Christian and I'm showing my support and applauding for MadOdorMachine, I'm happy to have him as a Brother in Christ.
He's explaning his beliefs calmly and respectfully and isn't getting much in return. This is the exact opposite of the behavior so many of you base your opinions of Christians on. I'm a Christian and I'm showing my support and applauding for MadOdorMachine, I'm happy to have him as a Brother in Christ.
enjoy bell woods
Banned
See, the problem is, to a non-Christian, none of what MadOdorMachine has said really makes any sense or applies to our lives.Togeo said:
enjoy bell woods
Banned
I'd like more clarification on how Christians are being persecuted. That line has made me laugh for like 10 years now.
enjoy bell woods
Banned
I had a friend who was all into being antagonistic back in highschoool. He wrote a paper about a leprechaun who died for the Irish's sins, and his English teacher tried to get him suspended.
The assignment had something to do with heroes or something. I can't remember.
The assignment had something to do with heroes or something. I can't remember.
Respectfulness and politeness are not substitutes for logic, rationality, historical accuracy, truth, and sanity. You, and every other crusader for the United States of Jesusland, need to stop treating demeanor as anything more than supplementary when expressing (and forming) your views.Togeo said:
*slow, sarcastic applause* I'm sure you are. Keep fightin' the good fight, in the name of Jesus....and make sure those Christ-brand cotton balls don't fall out of your ears.Togeo said:
heavy liquid
Member
weehomer said:
My thinking exactly
As far as christian oppression and the "war" on christianity goes...Jon Stewart took a funny jab at people who say that last night. Here's the quote from The Daily Show.
<sarcasm>Yes, the long war on christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an america where christians can worship freely. In broad daylight, openly wearing the symbols of thier religion, perhaps around thier necks. And maybe, dare I dream it, maybe one day there could even be an openly christian president. Or perhaps forty-three of them, consecutivly</sarcasm>
<sarcasm>Yes, the long war on christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an america where christians can worship freely. In broad daylight, openly wearing the symbols of thier religion, perhaps around thier necks. And maybe, dare I dream it, maybe one day there could even be an openly christian president. Or perhaps forty-three of them, consecutivly</sarcasm>
Faith... is a corruption of the mind. It's a lazy way of accepting something, without investigating its logic and evidence for belief.
Do you know the limitless number of things you can believe in with faith? Scientology is one of them; where the close circular internal logic has the people believing things like...
Xenu a galactic overlord took billions of people from his overcrowded worlds upon DC-8s retrofitted with jet engines, and took them to earth, placing them around volcanos and blowing them up with thermonuclear devices, causing them to become angry, sad, restless souls called thetans, who were then brain washed and caused an identity confusion that causes many of them to think they're the same person; with multiple thetans clinging to the same person, and that to become a healthy body and soul, you need to purge those thetans.
That's great internal logic, but it absolutely crumbles under the weight of any external logic and requests for material evidence.
Do you know the limitless number of things you can believe in with faith? Scientology is one of them; where the close circular internal logic has the people believing things like...
Xenu a galactic overlord took billions of people from his overcrowded worlds upon DC-8s retrofitted with jet engines, and took them to earth, placing them around volcanos and blowing them up with thermonuclear devices, causing them to become angry, sad, restless souls called thetans, who were then brain washed and caused an identity confusion that causes many of them to think they're the same person; with multiple thetans clinging to the same person, and that to become a healthy body and soul, you need to purge those thetans.
That's great internal logic, but it absolutely crumbles under the weight of any external logic and requests for material evidence.
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