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[Unknown Soldier]

A lot of posts in in here I agree with, but this one pretty much is exactly how I've felt.

It's been incredibly frustrating seeing all these people that have nothing to lose sprouting off this sort of "fuck you I got mine" bullshit.

I do like Sanders because I think he sounds like a truly sincere person that honestly believes in doing what is good and right. I don't like him simply because he is "anti-establishment," and I don't understand why people latch onto that. Being anti-establishment doesn't necessarily mean you are going to channel that towards good- look at Trump. He implies that Mexicans are rapists and murderers, that Muslim people are terrorists... I don't know if he's said anything about black people but given he's not only running for the GOP but also has legit KKK people showing up to his rallies... yeah. He's anti-choice, and under him I wouldn't be surprised if Texas abortion policies are replicated in some of those states.

TBH the only people I see that REALLY buy into the "anti-establishment" movement past the age of 21 are usually heterosexual, privileged males.. most of the time white, or of near-white status. [Funnily enough, that's also the subset of the population that was soooo for GamerGate.]

Wow. Accusing people who support "anti-establishment" of being Gamergaters is certainly a new angle of attack. If your goal is to solidify people's opposition to Hillary you're certainly doing a great job. I wouldn't want to vote for Hillary knowing that Hillary supporters think people who oppose her support Gamergate. This is one amazingly low blow you just attempted here.

 

[Par Score]

I really can't imagine why the possibility of electing a woman to be President would attract so much hate. It truly is completely baffling.

If you're angry about this attitude then use your voice in the democratic system to structurally change how elections work so it's a moot point. Don't hold it against people for acting rationally within the bounds of a system.

You think they're "acting rationally"? Shouting "Both sides! Both sides!" like this is some playground spat? Deciding that if they can't have their ice cream then fuck everyone else?

Come the fuck on, it's the same 'old' youthful nihilism which makes sure politicians never take the youth vote seriously, safe in the knowledge their concerns can be ignored as they'll never actually bother to do anything about it.

Conveniently, this is also why some dreamer like Sanders never had a real chance. Youthful enthusiasm and optimism is no match for youthful laziness in the face of actually having to go out and vote.

I've actually been going back and forth with a friend over this very issue.

Trump's path to the nomination has already emboldened all these latent racists and I feel that him winning would only validate them. That might not be a problem for your heterosexual white male voter, but for other like myself it's a big deal. The difference between Hilary and Trump is that Trump is trying to pass legislation banning Muslims from entering the country. Hilary is not. Trump is trying to push the idea that brown people are either illegal immigrants or terrorists. Hilary is not. By not voting and someone like Trump wins, I feel you are indirectly responsible for the outcome.

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders in the primaries, but if Hilary gets the nomination my vote is absolutely going to her.

These kinda Sanders voters couldn't possibly give a fuck about anyone who's being targeted by the rhetoric on the right. They just want to see their guy win. Children.

Let's not even talk about the ones who say they'll just vote for Trump if Bernie doesn't win. Boggles my mind.

Bingo.

 

[Heel]

You are letting perfect be the enemy of good. Some people will take a high chance of incremental improvement over an extremely low chance of moderate improvement. It's a pragmatic choice and those who are baffled at Bernie losing need to understand this.

No she won't destroy the country, but her winning the election is going to insure that the status quo is upheld which I'd still chalk up as a major loss. Sanders has the message that I think helps most Americans and myself and that's why I'm casting my vote from him when the primaries come next month. I don't care how unlikely it is that any of his policies get enacted, a Bernie win would send a strong and clear message what millennials wan't from their congress and country.

 

[commedieu]

Her record speaks for itself. Less evil than trump tho.

But I imagine the party in the middle east and record defense spending will continue with her.

Why wouldn't it?

 

[kirblar]

2013 is really really late to start supporting gay marriage

It was political suicide to openly support that until recently. Holding people's actions in earlier times to today's political standards is ridiculous, because those are the people who were able to pivot when the tides changed and actually help make things happen.

 

[Trouble]

Ehm... it's a retweet. The name Bernie Sanders is right there in big letters.

In fairness, Hillary supporters are all old people who don't understand how to use the internet.

 

[leroidys]

Here is the ways you can vote by state, for reference:

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/absentee-and-early-voting.aspx

Not saying they're perfect, but just another reason why Colorado, Washington and Oregon are by faaaaaaaaar the best places to live in the US.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Why does anyone think all criticisms aimed at Clinton's credentials to be president is because she's a woman?

There's plenty of women I'd prefer as president over her.

If it were between Warren and Sanders for the Democrat nomination I would be crying with joy.

Accusing people for not liking Hilary because she's a woman, and assuming that the people who don't like her are all male in the first place, isn't a good look.

 

[Ogrekiller]

And when you miss, you lose.

No participation prize, no second place aw shucks, you tried.

YOU LOSE.

And the other team wins and guess what? The other team will do everything they can short of cheating to make sure you don't win again.

Imagine if Calgary won and changed the rules of hockey so the Oilers couldn't have a goalie.

 

[Glorified G]

I'm not voting for Hillary if she's the nominee; and her die hard supporters scare me. No she won't destroy the country, but her winning the election is going to insure that the status quo is upheld which I'd still chalk up as a major loss. Sanders has the message that I think helps most Americans and myself and that's why I'm casting my vote from him when the primaries come next month. I don't care how unlikely it is that any of his policies get enacted, a Bernie win would send a strong and clear message what millennials wan't from their congress and country. I But if Bernie can't drive millennials out to vote, I don't know who can.

Come November, I'm either voting down ticket and writing in Bernie or voting for Jill Stein.

Bernie is pretty much has Jill Stein's platform on a much bigger stage. If he doesn't make it, might as well support the candidate that shares your ideals and try to break up the monotonous two party system, as small as that will happen. As opposed to the "lesser of two evils" and live with horrible ideas like chained CPI for social security and other bullshit that Obama tried to pull.

 

[alr1ght]

Hi gaf!
I personally dislike Hillary, not because of the hate being spread by the media or whoever, but because I'm salty. I'm salty that last presidential nominee I will ever agree with was probably Barack. Bernie is my boy and he is what I believe politics should be all about.

And for me when i see shit like this https://mobile.twitter.com/kylieatwood/status/704042334468579328/photo/1
Personally I'm offended that now her supporters are gonna believe she thought of that quote. And many other ideas that sanders may have brought forth and won't get credit for
My answer may be a little incomrprehensive but that's because it's from the heart. I really dislike how Hillary is the default nominee.

Surely this is not serious.

 

[atr0cious]

I'm amazed at the optimism with which Hillary voters seem to have in regard to our country and the world holding on okay with more of the status quo trajectory.

What the fuck is this status quo narrative? What status quo? If you can't see the progress we've made despite half the country fighting against it, and a third of the other half thinking it's not their problem, then maybe you should just abstain.

 

[LCGeek]

Wow. Your post on DOMA is so full of revisionist bullshit that I can't take the rest of what you say seriously.

DOMA was a compromise! It was literally the only way to prevent Congress from trying to make gay marriage Constitutionally illegal. If that would've happened, SSM would've likely not happened for the next 50 years, in the most optimistic of chances.

He couldn't veto it. It had 85 votes. There was nothing NOTHING he could do. So please give me a fucking break.

Bill Clinton CAMPAIGNED on Open Service for gay members in the military, in 1992. Do you have any idea how ballsy that was back then?

But no, let's ignore context and politics of the times and throw them both under the bus.

Why do I have to like a compromise I feel is shitty. Obamacare is a compromise and I think it shit despite how it's good step forward. Try again. Your point is true, my point is when she was up for election in 2k8 she was worse than obama on SSM and her in general until SSM was legal was a pretty self serving stance that did no none any good but herself. No you get no break and even less as you tried with that BS post.

Been alive since 83 and growing up back that was quite the experience.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I don't harbor any strong feelings against Hillary.

I just fucking hate that people are voting for her just because "it's a woman's turn". I will celebrate a female president, just like I celebrated Obama's election, but I still won't vote for her.

I also strongly dislike that people think I should vote for her just because I'm autistic.

 

[Damerman]

If it were between Warren and Sanders for the Democrat nomination I would be crying with joy.

i still pray for this.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

That's what you got out of the entire post?

I just read this:

TBH the only people I see that REALLY buy into the "anti-establishment" movement past the age of 21 are usually heterosexual, privileged males.. most of the time white, or of near-white status. [Funnily enough, that's also the subset of the population that was soooo for GamerGate.]

Care to defend this accusation?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Why did Canucks let Harper win for 3 straight elections? If Trudeau wasn't running as PM would you have voted NDP/Green and risk Harper winning a minority?

To be fair the NDP 2011 were the only viable party to fight against Harper, and likely would have remained so had Trudeau not come in.

 

[EnthronedReaper]

Holy shit, dude, it's a retweet.

It says it *right there*.

If anything, it's the exact opposite by retweeting him instead of posting extremely similar thoughts right after in other words. A retweet gives direct credit to the way he put it.

The fact that she does the same thing during debates, and the fact that the candidate I really want to win is seen as a tool for Hillary to seem "more left" is stupefying. Thats my answer to the op

 

[strikeselect]

Hillary is a downgrade from Obama, let's face it.

That being said, she will be the lesser of two evils so.... it is what it is.

 

[legacyzero]

Hold my beer-

The amount of Hillary hate in this thread scares me. I swear, some of you have your reality distortion fields set to 11. And the fuck you, got mine mentality is terrible.

"Reality distortion?"

Help me here. Give me some examples on why I should pick her over Bernie. How can you reassure me of her integrity when the 'reality' is clear that she has veen less than honest, in the pockets of those she says arent her special interests. Prove to me that she is PRINCIPLE supporter of social issues like LGBT and other minority communities, regardless of the fact "reality" that she has flip flopped on thise issues, supported legislation that HARMS them previously, etc.

Your "reality" isnt very real IMO.

 

[CaptainofIndustry]

I'll vote for anybody but Hillary.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I personally won't be voting for Hillary Clinton in November, although it has little to do with her and more to do with the Democratic Party at large. I actually really like Hillary Clinton, and I think she will be a great president, but a message needs to be sent.

I still hope that she wins, but I would like to see the race be contested far closer than it should be given the disaster of a candidate that Donald Trump is. Like Bush v. Gore close, but without the recount drama. I want Trump to get >65% of the White vote, for youth turnout to be non-existent, and for the Dems to fail to flip a single Senate seat beyond Wisconsin and Illinois.

The current Democratic Party is an abject failure outside of the presidential elections, and there needs to be a serious shake-up in regards to party leadership, starting by kicking DWS to the curb.

This is completely insane.

All that will happen is a rise in GOP power. That's it.

 

[Steel]

Hi gaf!
I personally dislike Hillary, not because of the hate being spread by the media or whoever, but because I'm salty. I'm salty that last presidential nominee I will ever agree with was probably Barack. Bernie is my boy and he is what I believe politics should be all about.

And for me when i see shit like this https://mobile.twitter.com/kylieatwood/status/704042334468579328/photo/1
Personally I'm offended that now her supporters are gonna believe she thought of that quote. And many other ideas that sanders may have brought forth and won't get credit for
My answer may be a little incomrprehensive but that's because it's from the heart. I really dislike how Hillary is the default nominee.

You realize that Hilary is far more like Obama than Sanders is. Hell, Obama himself has said as much.

I'll vote for anybody but Hillary.

So you'd vote for Trump just to spite Hilary?

 

[kirblar]

Why do I have to like a compromise I feel is shitty. Obamacare is a compromise and I think it shit despite how it's good step forward. Try again. Your point is true my point is when she was up for election in 2k8 she was worse than obama on SSM. No you get no break and even less as you tried that BS post.

Been alive since 83 and growing up back that was quite the experience.

Because when the options are "go home hungry" or "compromise", you pick the one that advances your cause.

If you don't, you wind up like Ted Kennedy, dying knowing that you blew the best chance in the last century for far-reaching reform.

 

[Mighty Chin]

What the fuck is this status quo narrative? What status quo? If you can't see the progress we've made despite half the country fighting against it, and a third of the other half thinking it's not their problem, then maybe you should just abstain.

It's astounding. They want to jump by leaps thinking anything less than that is backwards.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

What the fuck is this status quo narrative? What status quo? If you can't see the progress we've made despite half the country fighting against it, and a third of the other half thinking it's not their problem, then maybe you should just abstain.

ACA and marriage equality are progress, but considering the times, not enough progress for most people. These are dire times. Police brutality. Institutionalized racism. Low wages. Student Loans. The drug war. Under maintained infrastructure. Poor education. Government spying. Climate change. America needs answers to these things NOW.

Conceding that ACA and marriage equality means progress given the rampant amount of lgbt poverty still happening is laughable and spit in your face worthy. Obama did a good job against a congress that did nothing to work with him, but if you can't see how the status quo will continue, I don't know what to say.

Do you think Hilary Clinton will do good on ANY of these issues? I don't.

That said, I trust she won't dismantle what we've worked hard to achieve either. Which is why I'm voting for her.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Clinton is, and has been since 2008, the presumptive followup to Obama, the enshrined establishment candidate and part of one of the biggest political dynasties America has seen. Her failures are as many as her victories.

Trump was, until recently, considered a joke candidate with no chance of gaining the nomination let alone the general election.

To me, these are important issues in themselves. The concentration of political power in America is a joke that is playing out very poorly on Americans, and Trump represents very real, very necessary change in the system. Bernie does to a slightly lesser degree (socialist atheist, very left by US standards), but we're assuming he is out in this thread.

It amuses me that people don't think that its possible to value these issues more than any others.

America will not burn if Trump is president. But it might change, and the democrats right along with it.

So you're saying Trump will make America Great Again?

 

[Maengun1]

The amount of anti-Clinton rhetoric will die down as we go. When Sanders drops out, when he endorses her, as we get closer to the election, etc. As others have said, the anger between the Clinton and Obama camps in 2008 was far louder. Though there's other differences between this and 2008 as well of course, and I don't take a Clinton general win as a given. It's just way, way more likely than a Sanders win.

Anyone who would really "never" vote for Clinton once Sanders is no longer an option cares more about cutting off their nose to spite their face and being willfully ignorant than in pushing liberal policies anyway.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Hold my beer-


"Reality distortion?"

Help me here. Give me some examples on why I should pick her over Bernie. How can you reassure me of her integrity when the 'reality' is clear that she has veen less than honest, in the pockets of those she says arent her special interests. Prove to me that she is PRINCIPLE supporter of social issues like LGBT and other minority communities, regardless of the fact "reality" that she has flip flopped on thise issues, supported legislation that HARMS them previously, etc.

Your "reality" isnt very real IMO.

Nobody is saying you should vote her over Bernie. But if Bernie loses the Democrat nomination, she is a better option to vote for then Trump/Rubio/Cruz.

 

[Ogrekiller]

To be fair the NDP 2011 were the only viable party to fight against Harper, and likely would have remained so had Trudeau not come in.

Let's be real here, they never stood a chance, especially after Layton passed.

He was the Sanders of Canada. Always the opposition, a true populist.

He split the vote badly between the Libs and the NDP.

He almost did it too. But he fell short. Harper still won (a majority to boot adding salt to the wound) and then he died.

RIP

 

[sephi22]

What's Hilary's stance on drugs? I know my bro Bernie is 420friendly

 

[EnthronedReaper]

Surely this is not serious.

Have you ever spoken to someone outside of your social circle? People aren't as inquisitive as the people on gaf. Many of my friends who I would consider progressive are voting Hillary and doing so "just because" they have no definite answer. They've been spoonfed that because she is a democrat she'll have our backs. They believe she'll do exactly what sanders will do and even more because that's the narrative the media is pushing.

I don't like that she talks shit about wallst. When sanders brings it up and the next weekend she has dinner with investment bankers.

 

[LCGeek]

Because when the options are "go home hungry" or "compromise", you pick the one that advances your cause.

If you don't, you wind up like Ted Kennedy, dying knowing that you blew the best chance in the last century for far-reaching reform.

Keep harping on one part and not the bigger part I mentioned in the response. It's not just doma it's how she tried playing the movement up until Obama and a few real worthwhile cases got things done.

Also it's nice you guys are like it's just a "compromise", I don't care. Neither result benefitted me so don't act like I should love it. History is what is is and between doma and welfare shit I have plenty of reason to be skeptical, but I guess this gonna be another hillaryplaining post about how I got the history wrong. Here's my point I and others were affected by that mere compromise you mention don't ask me to like or be positive about a pretty dark period of my life.

 

[CaptainofIndustry]

You realize that Hilary is far more like Obama than Sanders is. Hell, Obama himself has said as much.



So you'd vote for Trump just to spite Hilary?

Yes. Anybody but Hillary. I mean Anybody.

 

[excelsiorlef]

And before that?

Harper never won the popular vote. All the rest was split between the other 3 parties. It took a full decade and a Trudeau dynasty to kick Harper out.

Thank goodness the NDP and the BQ are dead in the water.

Had the liberal in 2011 not destroyed themselves we could have had an NDP minority government.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

She deserves shit for various things but it's a bit much sometimes. Bernie is absolutely the kind of progressive I'd want in the WH, but, if Hillary is the nominee, am I going to struggle about whom to vote for? Fuck no. Ultimately, that's what still gives me comfort: even the harshest critics of her from the left will almost certainly vote for her over any GOP candidate.

 

[Steel]

Yes. Anybody but Hillary. I mean Anybody.

The hell? I'm not even a Hillary supporter, but you'd vote for someone who's pretty much openly racist before you'd vote for Hilary? Just don't vote in that case.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Had the liberal in 2011 not destroyed themselves we could have had an NDP minority government.

Nah. Vote would still have been split. PCs knew exactly what they were doing.

 

[Polari]

I just don't understand how anyone can be excited about her. I can understand tolerating her if you think she's the best of a bad bunch, but actively supporting her? Hillary represents more of the same in the worst possible way.

Trump and Sanders supporters I get. I don't think they're right, but I understand their discontent and how those candidates represent the change Obama never delivered on.

 

[LittleBoots]

I personally won't be voting for Hillary Clinton in November, although it has little to do with her and more to do with the Democratic Party at large. I actually really like Hillary Clinton, and I think she will be a great president, but a message needs to be sent.

I still hope that she wins, but I would like to see the race be contested far closer than it should be given the disaster of a candidate that Donald Trump is. Like Bush v. Gore close, but without the recount drama. I want Trump to get >65% of the White vote, for youth turnout to be non-existent, and for the Dems to fail to flip a single Senate seat beyond Wisconsin and Illinois.

The current Democratic Party is an abject failure outside of the presidential elections, and there needs to be a serious shake-up in regards to party leadership, starting by kicking DWS to the curb.

 

[legacyzero]

Nobody is saying you should vote her over Bernie. But if Bernie loses the Democrat nomination, she is a better option to vote for then Trump/Rubio/Cruz.

Agreed. But it's unfortunate that she's the lesser of two evils. I would do so, knowing that she is dishonest, and that's terrible.

 

[Htown]

From what I've seen of Hillary, she seems like a harmless candidate who's been around for a while. The hate feels like a reddit circle jerk and the notion that she's worse than Trump is worrying.

The people who say this have convinced themselves that "the establishment" is the worst thing in the world, and it's the only real problem with America. So if you can't have Bernie you go with Trump because he's the other "anti-establishment" candidate, despite the many many differences in policy you'd see between them, because they haven't actually thought this out beyond "the establishment is the enemy".

 

[Malyse]

Hold my beer-


"Reality distortion?"

Help me here. Give me some examples on why I should pick her over Bernie. How can you reassure me of her integrity when the 'reality' is clear that she has veen less than honest, in the pockets of those she says arent her special interests. Prove to me that she is PRINCIPLE supporter of social issues like LGBT and other minority communities, regardless of the fact "reality" that she has flip flopped on thise issues, supported legislation that HARMS them previously, etc.

Your "reality" isnt very real IMO.

How about the distortion where you jump from Hillary is better than the GOP candidates to Hillary is better than Bernie?

 

[Dai101]

It depends on the person and their history.

if you're black, IMO, you have a lot of reason to argue against a Clinton presidency.

If you're LGBT, IMO, you have a lot of reason to argue against a Clinton presidency.

Sweeping past history under the rug, like it's a clean slate now that she's appealing to these demographics does not erase that just a few years ago, she was the enemy of most LGBT people.

Then there's socialists who view her as a part of the establishment and bad for progress.

Then there's those who abhor her war record.

I fall in all of these camps.

But I'll still vote for her in the GE if it comes down to it. Doesn't change my feelings on her though. Don't like her at all.

Fair enough and i respect your points specially the bolded.
Because thats precisely my beef with my previous statements. The "Fuck you, got mine" attitude a lot of bernie supporters have to the degree of saying they will vote for trump or any other republican candidate because in the end they're not affected by that, "My state is already blue, why should i care about the rest" The calling for eugenics to explain why like yesterday a large part of AA voted for her instead of bernie.
That sort of attitudes is not what i associate with someone that calls himself a liberal and or a progressive person.

 

[EnthronedReaper]

You realize that Hilary is far more like Obama than Sanders is. Hell, Obama himself has said as much.



So you'd vote for Trump just to spite Hilary?

I mean the whole vibe of his campaign was for the people by the people! HOPE was everywhere back in 08. I just don't get that brotherly love from Clinton. She may have more negative aspects of Obama than sanders for sure

EDIT: I just wouldn't vote. This election cycle turned me off. And to think I was the kid who ditched school to watch Obamas inauguration

 

[LCGeek]

If he is talking about debbie he's not wrong she has cluster fucked the party so much.

 

[Wall]

Abstaining from voting in the general if Hillary is the nominee will just make things worse, not better, if you care about the ideas that Sanders is running on. A republican winning will allow the Republicans to ensure a conservative majority remains on the Supreme Court, which will make it difficult to enact any progressive changes in the future. Beyond that, a republican victory will allow the Republicans to pass laws to partially or fully privatize Social Security and Medicare; gut the EPA; repeal Dodd-Frank; and cut funding for Medicare and education, among many other things. That's even before you get to the absolutely evil stuff Trump has said he would do if he gets elected.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

Voting for Hillary is far, far more pragmatic than voting for any Republican, third party, or independent candidate. It's important to move forward, yes, but it's also important to not move backward. I don't trust any of the major Republican candidates to not move backwards, and I'm afraid I don't trust third parties or independents to win a presidential election.

Hell, if Hillary wins the nomination and liberals rally around a third party or independent, that's practically giving the Republican candidate the presidency. That's how Woodrow Wilson got into the White House, the Republicans being split between Roosevelt and Taft.

 

[CLEEK]

Non-American here.

I don't think that Hilary is evil. But whatever ideology it was that drove her original interest in politics, I honestly believe that she no longer has an ideological bone in her body. She want to be President out of desire for personal power. Her only saving grace is that she would win against Trump.

If Hilary gets nominated ahead of Sanders, she's sure to win. Unlike with Sanders, her presidency would likely make little difference to America. Treading water. Status quo. No changes to Wall Street. No changes to the military industrial complex, or to foreign policy. No changes to private prisons. Half arsed changes to healthcare. Minor changes, all fiercely battled against by Republican congress. And so on.

 

[RageWaffles]

Yes. Anybody but Hillary. I mean Anybody.

Consider voting for Jill Stein, at least.