The Amount of Hillary Hate Scares Me

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EnthronedReaper said:
I mean the whole vibe of his campaign was for the people by the people! HOPE was everywhere back in 08. I just don't get that brotherly love from Clinton. She may have more negative aspects of Obama than sanders for sure
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So basically, you're against Hillary because she's wooden and not as charismatic as Obama? Cause Obama and Hillary are pretty close when it comes to policy. Bernie is pretty far away from where Obama himself says he wants to be.
 
I think even most Hillary supporters wish there was someone better available (I do), but she's the best the party's got right now. You can do a lot worse than someone who's remained popular championing progressive policies for over 20 years. I think she's got a better shot of flipping Congress and actually signing some of that policy into law than anyone else. What absolutely can't be risked is the progress Obama's made over his 2 terms and voting for anyone else would do just that.
 
Dai101 said:
Fair enough and i respect your points specially the bolded.
Because thats precisely my beef with my previous statements. The "Fuck you, got mine" attitude a lot of bernie supporters have to the degree of saying they will vote for trump or any other republican candidate because in the end they're not affected by that, "My state is already blue, why should i care about the rest" The calling for eugenics to explain why like yesterday a large part of AA voted for her instead of bernie.
That sort of attitudes is not what i associate with someone that calls himself a liberal and or a progressive person.
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A lot of these people who say that AREN'T liberal or progressive.

What people forget is a lot of Bernie supporters are independents, which is already a highly diverse group, and non-voters. So you've got socialists and communists, non-voters, first time voters, independents, conservatives, former republicans, democrats, liberals, progressives, all kinds of shit under his camp.

The problem with what you're doing is you're assuming that all Bernie supporters come from similar camps. We don't.

For the record, I'm independent and socialist/communist.
 
[I'm mostly copy/pasting a post from the closed SC thread, here]

Nobody wants a Republican as president. And that's not going to happen. They don't have the demographics to pull that off anymore. That's not what's the problem.

The schadenfreude many are having over Bernie losing so badly in SC is what's the problem. Reminds me of the cynicism from so-called "leftists" towards Occupy. It's not only self-defeating, it is precisely the kind of shit which leads to voter apathy, especially during the midterms - which has been fucking us over for decades. To be clear, at no point have I thought or said Bernie was going to win the primary; that's not the issue. It's not about Bernie. It's about the dismissive attitude, the articles/comments about Berniebros, the focus on what anonymous social media users have said, etc. The "political revolution" that you mock is merely just an effort for us to join the rest of the modern world. It's the hope and change platform that Obama ran on, except now a bunch of "liberals" are shitting on it.
 
Polari said:
I just don't understand how anyone can be excited about her. I can understand tolerating her if you think she's the best of a bad bunch, but actively supporting her? Hillary represents more of the same in the worst possible way.

Trump and Sanders supporters I get. I don't think they're right, but I understand their discontent and how those candidates represent the change Obama never delivered on.
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Well, I mean, the ACA was pretty exciting even if it's not perfect. Going from letting Don't Ask, Don't Tell expire to United States v. Windsor to Obergefell v. Hodges, which happened in large part due to appointees made by Obama were also pretty damn exciting as a bisexual individual, especially seeing that all happen quicker than I could have imagined. So if that's status quo and more of the same... then you're damn right I'd be excited about it. Why wouldn't I be? The progress we made under Obama was great and I'd definitely look forward to "more of the same" from Clinton. I might not have the Moon on top of that, but I'm definitely not seeing why I wouldn't be happy with another 8 years of Obama considering what his 8 years were able to give us. I can in no way see that as a negative.
 
ItIsOkBro said:
My biggest problem with all this is how she often times refuses to recognize or acknowledge her past positions. I think she thinks that would hurt her. Instead she likes to pretend she was always against something or downplay her previous support or whatever. I would feel better about Hillary if she simply said I was wrong then and I'm right now.
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This is such a dumb view of anything. Why can't anyone change their mind? I voted bush, believed in creation, believed abortion was wrong, and didn't think blacks could be gay (i know). Now, I don't live in a dumb bubble of ignorance and can see why my views were wrong. Should I not vote democrat? Or do i burn it all down to send a message that no one will care about. Edit: read this wrong, I think both Hillary and Barack know how the game is played and what things must be said to get places, it was the thin hope surrounding sane black votes for Carson. But I'm also responding to a larger issue that I've seen around here and at work.

Cindi Mayweather said:
ACA and marriage equality are progress, but considering the times, not enough progress for most people. These are dire times. Police brutality. Institutionalized racism. Low wages. Student Loans. The drug war. Under maintained infrastructure. Poor education. Government spying. Climate change. America needs answers to these things NOW.

Conceding that ACA and marriage equality means progress given the rampant amount of lgbt poverty still happening is laughable and spit in your face worthy. Obama did a good job against a congress that did nothing to work with him, but if you can't see how the status quo will continue, I don't know what to say.

Do you think Hilary Clinton will do good on ANY of these issues? I don't.

That said, I trust she won't dismantle what we've worked hard to achieve either. Which is why I'm voting for her.
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For most people? We've been dead for generations, I'll take a whiff of progress over flipping the table.

And i believe, as a woman, just like i believed in Obama as a black man, Hillary recognizes where women stand in this world, and i think steinem and albright are reminding her of her potential legacy in this regard. I don't see her doing dirt just because of some shadow cabal, I'll at least grant her that much faith.
 
Malyse said:
How about the distortion where you jump from Hillary is better than the GOP candidates to Hillary is better than Bernie?
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Eh????? That's not distortion at all. She IS better than the GOP candidates. And no, Bernie is light years better than Hilary. 100% more consistant on the issues, doesn't change his stance on the issues (at least not NEARLY as much as Hillary). Sure, he evolved on the gun manufacturers, but now we're just nit picking. Look back decades ago and see who is more consistent. Youtube will show you everything.

I dont wish to try and change Hillary supporters minds. I just wanna do my part in helping you do it yourself through facts and the real information.

The only distorted reality I see are those that support Hillary based on her principles.
 
kirblar said:
Hillary is liberal as fuck socially.

However, it was not possible to be politically "for" many of these things at earlier times. You simply couldn't get elected. It was literally illegal for gay people to have sex in many states until 2003. We are seeing massive social liberalization changes due to the way the internet is connecting people with information and each other in ways that simply weren't possible 2-3 decades prior.

Part of being a politician is representing your constituents, and part of that is having to compromise on your own views and present policy positions that may not actually reflect your own ideals.

Ivysaur- David Brooks' column from today is really good on the subject of the "burn it all to the ground" types and the rise of authoritarianism on the right AND left. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/26/opinion/the-governing-cancer-of-our-time.html
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That was a fantastic article.
 
Emperor_Uriel said:
Many still believe that Trump is a secret democrat with more progressive views on the middle class and the economy at large than Hillary.
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If he is, after this stunt with politics vince mcmahon needs to have him and shane team up vs in the ultimate asshole boss angle in the WWE. The way he has played the whole establishment is literally mind boggling considering the the shit he believes or makes us thinks he believes.
 
LittleBoots said:
I'm a Bernie fan, myself. But the amount of die-hard Bernie fans that have an amazing amount of hatred for Hillary is astounding. They go so far as to say that she's just as bad as Trump. If Bernie doesn't win the primaries, they plan on writing in his name in the general election or simply not voting at all. That makes us much more likely to have a republican president. The hatred for her is what makes me scared that we'll have Cruz, Trump, or Rubio as president.

I may not love Hillary, but I do NOT want a republican president, and I feel that anyone who's liberal should feel the same way. Why all the Hillary hate all of the sudden? I see so much anti-Hillary propaganda from liberals all over social media. Even in conversations, they shit on her so much. I know she's not going to crack down on Wall Street, I know she's not anti-establishment like Bernie, I know she's not a progressive. But the fact of the matter is that we CANNOT have a republican in the White House.
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If having a Democrat in the White House is so important to you then you should vote for Sanders

He beats every Republican except Rubio consistently in pretty much every poll
 
Team Alucard said:
I personally won't be voting for Hillary Clinton in November, although it has little to do with her and more to do with the Democratic Party at large. I actually really like Hillary Clinton, and I think she will be a great president, but a message needs to be sent.

I still hope that she wins, but I would like to see the race be contested far closer than it should be given the disaster of a candidate that Donald Trump is. Like Bush v. Gore close, but without the recount drama. I want Trump to get >65% of the White vote, for youth turnout to be non-existent, and for the Dems to fail to flip a single Senate seat beyond Wisconsin and Illinois.

The current Democratic Party is an abject failure outside of the presidential elections, and there needs to be a serious shake-up in regards to party leadership, starting by kicking DWS to the curb.
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Some people are insane. Holy shit.

This kind of thought damages the entire world. A message, yeah right. Sounds more like a revenge.
 
SPE said:
Non-American here.

I don't think that Hilary is evil. But whatever ideology it was that drove her original interest in politics, I honestly believe that she no longer has an ideological bone in her body. She want to be President out of desire for personal power. Her only saving grace is that she would win against Trump.

If Hilary gets nominated ahead of Sanders, she's sure to win. Unlike with Sanders, her presidency would likely make little difference to America. Treading water. Status quo. No changes to Wall Street. No changes to the military industrial complex, or to foreign policy. No changes to private prisons. Half arsed changes to healthcare. Minor changes, all fiercely battled against by Republican congress. And so on.
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As a non-american, too, this is the same impression I get from her.

She reminds me of a power hungry sneaky snake who would do everything for power.

She is like a female Frank Underwood, but at least Frank Underwood is an interesting character...
 
leroidys said:
Not saying they're perfect, but just another reason why Colorado, Washington and Oregon are by faaaaaaaaar the best places to live in the US.
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I love that they standardized it. It's got to make the election process easier for everybody.
But keep in mind, the green states also allow you to sign up for vote by mail for any reason. That's basically the next best thing.
 
Kyosaiga said:
Wow. Your post on DOMA is so full of revisionist bullshit that I can't take the rest of what you say seriously.

DOMA was a compromise! It was literally the only way to prevent Congress from trying to make gay marriage Constitutionally illegal. If that would've happened, SSM would've likely not happened for the next 50 years, in the most optimistic of chances.

He couldn't veto it. It had 85 votes. There was nothing NOTHING he could do. So please give me a fucking break.

Bill Clinton CAMPAIGNED on Open Service for gay members in the military, in 1992. Do you have any idea how ballsy that was back then?

But no, let's ignore context and politics of the times and throw them both under the bus.
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I feel you're being apologetic. This is Hillary Clinton around the time of DOMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIhxTAid0ro

This is Sanders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCXZ0rRqO60

This is a small fraction of the people who spoke about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIhxTAid0ro


Don't try to spin this away from Hillary as what she stood for. She is incredible dishonest. So much of what she stands for now regarding Obamas Policies is a startling contrast to who she was in 2008. It's unbecoming when others try to paint these broad strokes on the fiction of her character.
 
Par Score said:
You think they're "acting rationally"? Shouting "Both sides! Both sides!" like this is some playground spat? Deciding that if they can't have their ice cream then fuck everyone else?

Come the fuck on, it's the same 'old' youthful nihilism which makes sure politicians never take the youth vote seriously, safe in the knowledge their concerns can be ignored as they'll never actually bother to do anything about it.

Conveniently, this is also why some dreamer like Sanders never had a real chance. Youthful enthusiasm and optimism is no match for youthful laziness in the face of actually having to go out and vote.
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You're being an ass and completely misrepresenting me. I never said anything about both sides being similar at all. If the tie breaking vote I would pick Hilary over any of the current GOP candidates without a moment of hesitation....

This thread reminded me why I almost never talk about political issues after 1832. It just turns normal people into very rude, condescending, and holier-than-thou jerks.
 
Steel said:
So basically, you're against Hillary because she's wooden and not as charismatic as Obama? Cause Obama and Hillary are pretty close when it comes to policy. Bernie is pretty far away from where Obama himself says he wants to be.
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Not that she's wooden. She just doesn't have a cause to fight for. And it doesn't look like she's willing to get down and dirty for any progressive legislation. I see her as a placeholder president a lame duck we'd be stuck with for 4 years.

Put it this way If she becomes president by the time she's out I believe
Wall st will still lobby
We'll still be playing world conquest and toppling regimes
There will still be mass incarceration
Healthcare will be the same
Schools will still be shit
And we still won't have public colleges.

i think Obama and Clinton have similar views on somedays depending on #whichhillary lol but seriously she's gonna be the next jimmy carter. We need an FDR or Abraham lincoln where tf is our next GREAT president? Your fooling yourself if you think Hillary is anything but decent. I want greatness out of American politics, you may not think Bernie is great but atleast his ideas are grand and thought provoking
 
legacyzero said:
Eh????? That's not distortion at all. She IS better than the GOP candidates. And no, Bernie is light years better than Hilary. 100% more consistant on the issues, doesn't change his stance on the issues (at least not NEARLY as much as Hillary). Sure, he evolved on the gun manufacturers, but now we're just nit picking. Look back decades ago and see who is more consistent. Youtube will show you everything.

I dont wish to try and change Hillary supporters minds. I just wanna do my part in helping you do it yourself through facts and the real information.

The only distorted reality I see are those that support Hillary based on her principles.
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Let's try that again.

I said that the Hilary hate was scary and that people have distortion fields through which they see her. You took that immediately to mean Hilary > Bernie. You literally distorted my statement. This is my point. I never said she was better than Sanders. I never *implied* she was better than Sanders.

Distortion field.
 
I like both Hillary and Bernie. I happen to like Hillary a lot, lot more. Bernie lacks intellectual curiosity and doesn't give a hoot about anything that can't at the very least be tenuously linked to Wall Street. Hillary is smart, she understands the issues, and regardless what folk on the internet want to say, genuinely cares about people. Just because she is at times politically calculating doesn't make her a heartless monster. Also, she plays the game like almost everyone else in politics. Bernie is basically the exception.

I think that Bernie has zero political capital, regardless of the respect he has engendered from both sides of the aisle. If both Hillary and Bernie had the same exact policy on every issue, I believe that Hillary would be much more likely to get even a small amount of it accomplished.
 
chrizzz09 said:
As a non-american, too, this is the same impression I get from her.

She reminds me of a power hungry sneaky snake who would do everything for power.

She is like a female Frank Underwood, but at least Frank Underwood is an interesting character...
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You nailed why this election sucks.

Trump and her have all the shitty parts of franks and I don't trust they will do anything good, cause congress will still be deadlocked. Just so certain gaffers don't think it, I know hillary is far more qualified than trump could ever hope to be.

Paskil said:
I like both Hillary and Bernie. I happen to like Hillary a lot, lot more. Bernie lacks intellectual curiosity and doesn't give a hoot about anything that can't at the very least be tenuously linked to Wall Street. Hillary is smart, she understands the issues, and regardless what folk on the internet want to say, genuinely cares about people. Just because she is at times politically calculating doesn't make her a heartless monster. Also, she plays the game like almost everyone else in politics. Bernie is basically the exception.

I think that Bernie has zero political capital, regardless of the respect he has engendered from both sides of the aisle. If both Hillary and Bernie had the same exact policy on every issue, I believe that Hillary would be much more likely to get even a small amount of it accomplished.
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You just said his weaknesses and it is being exploited currently. While I agree a lot can flow from wall street finance issues money isn't the core problem as it flows from corruption. He really does have to adapt or at least be willing to open up on other subjects, don't think he will or will in time.
 
Inspector Jones said:
I'm not voting for Hillary if she's the nominee; and her die hard supporters scare me. No she won't destroy the country, but her winning the election is going to insure that the status quo is upheld which I'd still chalk up as a major loss. Sanders has the message that I think helps most Americans and myself and that's why I'm casting my vote from him when the primaries come next month. I don't care how unlikely it is that any of his policies get enacted, a Bernie win would send a strong and clear message what millennials wan't from their congress and country. I But if Bernie can't drive millennials out to vote, I don't know who can.

Come November, I'm either voting down ticket and writing in Bernie or voting for Jill Stein.

EDIT:



The anti-establishment appeal is strong to me, but not the most vital issue. In general, I'm just tired of feeling like my country puts the interests of it's people second to big business and suits. It's why I find Hillary completely unappealing as a candidate because while she would do some good in her office, I just know that the really progressive change a large percentage of Americans want is being denied to us because there's so much money invested in keeping things the way they are. This is why I kind of admire Trump in a way, if only because he's breaking the narrative of the GOP by bashing GW Bush, talking about not making cuts to social services, and saying positive things about planned parenthood. I'd rather have Trump running then any of the other republicans. It's too bad about all the xenaphobic statements and platforms he runs on.
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So let me get this straight you overtly acknowledge that Clinton will do some good but out of some convoluted principle you'll throw your vote to someone who wouldn't want it t that point (Sanders) or someone who has 0% chance of winning (Stein) and thus actively helping the crazy right wing side (aka the only people who could win other than Clinton, the person you've said will do some good)
 
EnthronedReaper said:
Not that she's wooden. She just doesn't have a cause to fight for. And it doesn't look like she's willing to get down and dirty for any progressive legislation. I see her as a placeholder president a lame duck we'd be stuck with for 4 years.

Put it this way If she becomes president by the time she's out I believe
Wall st will still lobby
We'll still be playing world conquest and toppling regimes
There will still be mass incarceration
Healthcare will be the same
Schools will still be shit
And we still won't have public colleges.

i think Obama and Clinton have similar views on somedays depending on #whichhillary lol but seriously she's gonna be the next jimmy carter. We need an FDR or Abraham lincoln where tf is our next GREAT president? Your fooling yourself if you think Hillary is anything but decent. I want greatness out of American politics, you may not think Bernie is great but atleast his ideas are grand and thought provoking
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Well then build up this so called revolution while Clinton does nothing when president then. If she's a stopgap she will at least try to build the party up back to national level while "maintaining the status quo".

Maybe enough old people will die off come 2024 that the next "great" candidate will win and change shit with an actual house and senate majority this time (which may happen under Clinton mind you)
 
Malyse said:
Let's try that again.

I said that the Hilary hate was scary and that people have distortion fields through which they see her. You took that immediately to mean Hilary > Bernie. You literally distorted my statement. This is my point. I never said she was better than Sanders. I never *implied* she was better than Sanders.

Distortion field.
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Fair.

I misread and assumed. Apologies

My points still stand, though
 
ShironRedshift said:
Well, I mean, the ACA was pretty exciting even if it's not perfect. Going from letting Don't Ask, Don't Tell expire to United States v. Windsor to Obergefell v. Hodges, which happened in large part due to appointees made by Obama were also pretty damn exciting as a bisexual individual, especially seeing that all happen quicker than I could have imagined. So if that's status quo and more of the same... then you're damn right I'd be excited about it. Why wouldn't I be? The progress we made under Obama was great and I'd definitely look forward to "more of the same" from Clinton. I might not have the Moon on top of that, but I'm definitely not seeing why I wouldn't be happy with another 8 years of Obama considering what his 8 years were able to give us. I can in no way see that as a negative.
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On social issues, OK.

Economic inequality is worse than ever though.
 
You can absolutely be critical of Hillary, that is fine and fantastic. However, there is no comparison between her and Trump, a racist, bigoted, fascist, idiotic caricature of a man. If you'd rather support Trump, then you don't give a damn about minority rights and immigrants. I will call you what you are, a selfish jerk at best and a racist asshole at worst.
eBay Huckster said:
That guy, apparently.
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I've seen many of these people over the last few days and it's good to know which individuals lack empathy and are simple in mind.
 
Non-American here.

I wouldn't vote for Hillary, she seems too fake. I wouldn't vote for the GOP either because they're mostly racists, xenophobes and sexists.
 
Ogrekiller said:
And when you miss, you lose.

No participation prize, no second place aw shucks, you tried.

YOU LOSE.

And the other team wins and guess what? The other team will do everything they can short of cheating to make sure you don't win again.

Imagine if Calgary won and changed the rules of hockey so the Oilers couldn't have a goalie.
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Hell it's not about missing, it's about not even taking the ice.
 
Bel Marduk said:
If having a Democrat in the White House is so important to you then you should vote for Sanders

He beats every Republican except Rubio consistently in pretty much every poll
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Those polls hardly matter. It's not the general election. The bottom line is, Hillary is much more electable than Bernie. That's the sad thing, because I like Bernie so much more.
 
EnthronedReaper said:
Hi gaf!
I personally dislike Hillary, not because of the hate being spread by the media or whoever, but because I'm salty. I'm salty that last presidential nominee I will ever agree with was probably Barack. Bernie is my boy and he is what I believe politics should be all about.

And for me when i see shit like this https://mobile.twitter.com/kylieatwood/status/704042334468579328/photo/1
Personally I'm offended that now her supporters are gonna believe she thought of that quote. And many other ideas that sanders may have brought forth and won't get credit for
My answer may be a little incomrprehensive but that's because it's from the heart. I really dislike how Hillary is the default nominee.
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Yeesh.
 
I am not a huge Hilary fan but I am absolutely going to vote for her because the thought of a Trump presidency scares the shit out of me.

I can't comprehend the idea that some Sanders supporters are saying they'd just let Trump win in November. Do they have any idea how much worse that would be than Hilary? A fucking supreme justice spot is on the line, for fuck's sake. I do think it's probably a vocal minority but it doesn't make it any less frustrating to hear.

Even my mom, who despises Hilary after Benghazi, has said she'd rather vote for her than Trump because she thinks Trump is genuinely dangerous.
 
Glorified G said:
Bernie is pretty much has Jill Stein's platform on a much bigger stage. If he doesn't make it, might as well support the candidate that shares your ideals and try to break up the monotonous two party system, as small as that will happen. As opposed to the "lesser of two evils" and live with horrible ideas like chained CPI for social security and other bullshit that Obama tried to pull.
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You aren't going to break shit.

Understand this voting Jill Stein will just take from the Dems and help the GOP. You aren't breaking anything you're just he;ping the one side that is the total antithesis to progressive ideals.
 
I think that turnout in the four primaries/caucuses have shown that the 'revolution' is not happening and will not materialize, regardless how many people throw donations at Bernie and loudly proclaim otherwise.
 
LittleBoots said:
As much as I like Jill Stein, I really don't want to give half my vote to the GOP. Our voting system is so fucked up.
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Our system is fucked up. But voting Green is much better than not voting at all (which the poster to whom I was replied said they would likely do). It doesn't directly help the Dem. candidate, but it does make one's desire for progressive policies and candidates known. (And, at least in some states, it'll help that party better support local candidates.)

And, because whether or not you vote is a matter of public record, simply voting for anyone at all will help candidates pay more attention to you.
 
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