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[Ratrat]

Both actually. It should be fairly incontrovertible that there has not been any TV anime since the genre's inception that both increased the scope, size, and diversity of their audience while also earning the respect of the broad Western hipster class. And on the other metric, I will merely put forward this challenge:

Can any anime fan here, with a straight face and mind, plausibly nominate a show that they consider to be an absolute equivalent in qualities to a well made American/British cable TV series (ex:Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Boarddwalk Empire, Luther, Orphan Black etc.), let alone one that meets or even exceeds certifiable masterpieces like Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire/Deadwood, etc.?

I rest my case.

Game of Thrones isn't even particularly good.

Legend of the Galactic Heroes would be my anime pick.

 

[EviLore]

Can any anime fan here, with a straight face and mind, plausibly nominate a show that they consider to be an absolute equivalent in qualities to a well made American/British cable TV series (ex:Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Boarddwalk Empire, Luther, Orphan Black etc.), let alone one that meets or even exceeds certifiable masterpieces like Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire/Deadwood, etc.?

I rest my case.

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (& 2nd Gig), Rurouni Kenshin Tsuiokuhen OVA, Cowboy Bebop, Macross Plus, Samurai Champloo, Baccano!, Mushishi, Planetes, Berserk, Seirei no Moribito. There's ten. Anime is a viable medium with its own gems.

Orphan Black? Game of Thrones? Those are pretty questionable shows.

 

[Soma]

Both actually. It should be fairly incontrovertible that there has not been any TV anime since the genre's inception that both increased the scope, size, and diversity of their audience while also earning the respect of the broad Western hipster class. And on the other metric, I will merely put forward this challenge:

Can any anime fan here, with a straight face and mind, plausibly nominate a show that they consider to be an absolute equivalent in qualities to a well made American/British cable TV series (ex:Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Boarddwalk Empire, Luther, Orphan Black etc.), let alone one that meets or even exceeds certifiable masterpieces like Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire/Deadwood, etc.?

I rest my case.

Bebop, FLCL, Hyouka, Aku no Hana, Mononoke (not to be confused with Princess Mononoke) would be some of my picks.

...not that they really even need to be comparable to live-action shows in the first place but whatevs.

 

[Lafiel]

Both actually. It should be fairly incontrovertible that there has not been any TV anime since the genre's inception that both increased the scope, size, and diversity of their audience while also earning the respect of the broad Western hipster class. And on the other metric, I will merely put forward this challenge:

Can any anime fan here, with a straight face and mind, plausibly nominate a show that they consider to be an absolute equivalent in qualities to a well made American/British cable TV series (ex:Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Boarddwalk Empire, Luther, Orphan Black etc.), let alone one that meets or even exceeds certifiable masterpieces like Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire/Deadwood, etc.?

I rest my case.

Your question is silly who cares about those things just enjoy stuff based on it's own merits?

I mean for example I consider myself generally well-read I consume lots of art-house literature and film that is good enough to have it's place in academic circles with varying levels of critical acclaim, my favourite television show of all time is The Wire and despite that it doesn't stop me from enjoying the likes of Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Mushi-shi, Paranoia Agent, Tatami Galaxy, Trapeze and Mononoke.

And you know what the best part about most of those shows is? there's no real equivalent to them in other mediums.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Orphan Black? Game of Thrones? Those are pretty questionable shows.

Game of Thrones isn't even particularly good.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[Crash Station]

Both actually. It should be fairly incontrovertible that there has not been any TV anime since the genre's inception that both increased the scope, size, and diversity of their audience while also earning the respect of the broad Western hipster class. And on the other metric, I will merely put forward this challenge:

Can any anime fan here, with a straight face and mind, plausibly nominate a show that they consider to be an absolute equivalent in qualities to a well made American/British cable TV series (ex:Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Boarddwalk Empire, Luther, Orphan Black etc.), let alone one that meets or even exceeds certifiable masterpieces like Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire/Deadwood, etc.?

I rest my case.

Outside of what everyone else already answered with, that's a pretty suggestive challenge. I personally find Breaking Bad and Deadwood damn boring, so for me, there's going to be a lot of anime above it.

 

[Messofanego]

Paranoia Agent is the best shit ever, I'd even put that past Twin Peaks and other psychological shows. And then there are Kon's movies which can be recommended to anyone and still come off as refreshing.

Welcome to NHK might be speaking to a limited audience but it's a great, empathic look into the life of a socially anxious unemployed disaster of a man.

 

[Dead]

Both actually. It should be fairly incontrovertible that there has not been any TV anime since the genre's inception that both increased the scope, size, and diversity of their audience while also earning the respect of the broad Western hipster class. And on the other metric, I will merely put forward this challenge:

Can any anime fan here, with a straight face and mind, plausibly nominate a show that they consider to be an absolute equivalent in qualities to a well made American/British cable TV series (ex:Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Boarddwalk Empire, Luther, Orphan Black etc.), let alone one that meets or even exceeds certifiable masterpieces like Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire/Deadwood, etc.?

I rest my case.

Ghost in the Shell SAC, Cowboy Bebop, Wolf's Rain, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Crest of the Stars, Samurai Shamploo, etc, could list a dozen other shows.

Also, all offer something wholly unique compared to what is available on western TV, as mentioned above.

 

[kazebyaka]

Main problem with anime is that it's made from manga source material mostly. And most of the manga artists are shitty writers. It's like adapting fan fiction to a big screen over and over again. Why do people do that? Because no one gives a shit about quality.

 

[Qvoth]

Judging from the replies here, I'm guessing space dandy wasn't good?
Haven't watched any anime (series) for a year I think

 

[Dead]

Main problem with anime is that it's made from manga source material mostly. And most of the manga artists are shitty writers. It's like adapting fan fiction to a big screen over and over again. Why do people do that? Because no one gives a shit about quality.

Funny how nearly every title listed so far isnt based on manga, and if it is (SAC) its a total deviation

 

[kazebyaka]

Judging from the replies here, I'm guessing space dandy wasn't good?
Haven't watched any anime (series) for a year I think

watch Kill la Kill, Samurai Flamenco, Silver Spoon or Yowamushi Pedal. These are highlights of the last year.

 

[Crash Station]

Judging from the replies here, I'm guessing space dandy wasn't good?
Haven't watched any anime (series) for a year I think

Hit or miss. There's a (imo ridiculous) discussion going on in the Space Dandy OT about it having too much fanservice (which I don't agree with) in the first half and an awesome second half. Really, people seem disappointed because it's a wacky space comedy and not Cowboy Bebop 2.

There was some cool stuff in 2013, though. Check out the AOTY thread or something if you're curious.

 

[The Technomancer]

Paranoia Agent is the best shit ever, I'd even put that past Twin Peaks and other psychological shows. And then there are Kon's movies which can be recommended to anyone and still come off as refreshing.

Welcome to NHK might be speaking to a limited audience but it's a great, empathic look into the life of a socially anxious unemployed disaster of a man.

Paranoia Agent is fucking legit. Its probably one of the most artistic anime I've ever seen, in that basically every single inch of it was incessantly in service of its themes or advancing the plot to a point of thematic exploration.

 

[Jintor]

Judging from the replies here, I'm guessing space dandy wasn't good?
Haven't watched any anime (series) for a year I think

it didn't blow people away (well the animation in the second half might have, that was fucking astounding) so it wasn't 'good'. Pretty divisive right now, but it's one episode, I don't really judge these things beyond 'do i want to keep watching' until it's all done.

 

[Crash Station]

Main problem with anime is that it's made from manga source material mostly. And most of the manga artists are shitty writers. It's like adapting fan fiction to a big screen over and over again. Why do people do that? Because no one gives a shit about quality.

Um, there's A LOT more manga than anime out there. Not gonna argue ratios or anything, but at least in Japan, it's a much more respected medium with tons more quality content than anime, if only by virtue of there being exponentially more stuff. It also has the advantage of actually being mainstream while anime remains niche.

If you want to argue the medium adapting crappy stuff, argue about the massive surge in light novel adaptations.

 

[RoninChaos]

I used to love anime. This Moe shit has turned me off from the genre as a whole.

 

[JustAnotherMike]

I thought Monster was on the level, they are even making an HBO series based on it.

Freaking amazing show. Problem with that show is 99.9 percent of people, even anime fans, don't know it exists.

I'm with you.

Monster was something else. I haven't seen it in years, but Johan's speech about people and ants is still stuck in my head. He's one of the better bad guys I've seen in any show.

 

[Visceir]

I know this is probably a really bad example and there are way more mature shows out there but I haven't watched anime in years and decided to check out Gurren Lagann. That thing is all about crotch shots, boobs and teenage angst.

I suppose there is an audience for that too tho...

 

[Trent Strong]

What the medium needs is a show on the caliber of The Wire/Sopranos/Breaking Bad that can demonstrate the medium can not only produce something competitive with live action shows, but actually surpass most of them as well.

I don't see that happening anytime soon, seeing as there isn't even an anime as good as The Big Bang Theory, let alone The Wire. Not to mention that the best Japanese voice actor is a hundred times worse than the worst American TV actor.

 

[cajunator]

I'm a long time anime hater who's always made an exception for Miyazaki, and only MIyazaki. Animes that I've seen made by other people always had the same problem that Japanese movies in general do: they have only a weak connection with reality. The people making them seem to have been inspired not by their experiences in real life, but only by their experiences watching other movies and animes.

They may be serious and they may be made with skill and imagination, but as long as they primarily build on other work, respond to other work, or even subvert other work, they won't have any way to move people's emotions that isn't merely an unsatisfying shadow of the original work. The Wire/Sopranos/Breaking Bad are all excellent examples of dramas that didn't just remind you of other TV shows you had seen, but rather reminded you of your own life, or people you know, and made you think of them in new ways. That had a powerful connection with reality.

The only director of anime that has ever had that power (as well as the only Japanese director of any kind of movie since Kurosawa died) is Miyazaki. He gets that connection with reality so, so right. I recently saw The Wind Rises in the theatres and it really drove home how well Miyazaki understands people, the way their decisions and personalities affect their lives, as well as how the people watching his movies will respond.

Id be interested to see your reaction to Millennium Actress.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Both actually. It should be fairly incontrovertible that there has not been any TV anime since the genre's inception that both increased the scope, size, and diversity of their audience while also earning the respect of the broad Western hipster class. And on the other metric, I will merely put forward this challenge:

Can any anime fan here, with a straight face and mind, plausibly nominate a show that they consider to be an absolute equivalent in qualities to a well made American/British cable TV series (ex:Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Boarddwalk Empire, Luther, Orphan Black etc.), let alone one that meets or even exceeds certifiable masterpieces like Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire/Deadwood, etc.?
I rest my case.

What for?? Which case?? That anime is 99% B-movie tier and only 5% of that is good? So what?? It's like saying Grindhouse cinema has to better or it will never leave it's niche.
Wakeup call: it does not have to. It can forever remain my source of good campy B-movie enjoyment.

Also, Nichijou is brilliant in it's own way.
Serial Experiment Lain is propably one of the most artful showd put on TV. Too bad that again is too heavy for the general public.

In short: fuck this topic. It's like demanding of video games to grow up. For me, "The presidents daughter has been kidnapped by aliens!! Let's attack aggressively!!!" will forever be enough.

 

[The Silver]

Both actually. It should be fairly incontrovertible that there has not been any TV anime since the genre's inception that both increased the scope, size, and diversity of their audience while also earning the respect of the broad Western hipster class. And on the other metric, I will merely put forward this challenge:

Can any anime fan here, with a straight face and mind, plausibly nominate a show that they consider to be an absolute equivalent in qualities to a well made American/British cable TV series (ex:Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Boarddwalk Empire, Luther, Orphan Black etc.), let alone one that meets or even exceeds certifiable masterpieces like Breaking Bad/Sopranos/The Wire/Deadwood, etc.?

I rest my case.

Only one other person has mentioned Legend of the Galactic Heroes in response to this post

shaking my fucking head anime-gaf, shaking my fucking head

 

[jamesinclair]

Truly a well researched piece.

It's funny because it reveals the hidden truth that despite the angle the article takes, there's no western interest in anime without strongly fantastical elements - even from this author.

Speed racer would like a word with you.

 

[Riffled]

People mentioned alot of shows, but I would like to throw in Kaiji in there too.

Um, there's A LOT more manga than anime out there. Not gonna argue ratios or anything, but at least in Japan, it's a much more respected medium with tons more quality content than anime, if only by virtue of there being exponentially more stuff. It also has the advantage of actually being mainstream while anime remains niche.

Yeah Manga has lots of dope stuff that tons don't know about, lots of interresting personal semi-biographical things. Or just concepts that are totally out there like National Quiz for example.

And Anime will never be mainstream, it's just too wierd. A lot of the good shows are generally not Political/Crime-drama things that western TV dominates. Very arthouse or specific, which I TV series in the West don't particulary have.

 

[V_Arnold]

It is weird to read about tv show fans bashing anime with a stick or a bat or whatever. The VAST majority of TV shows that are of a serialized nature are so far removed from the basics of storytelling that it is not even funny. They take the basics of what it takes to tell an engaging story (or a drama, more importantly), and they just twist the rules around midseason breaks, episode endings, season finales, cancellations and whatnot.

The only hurdle anime adaptations had to sometimes endure was when a studio needed to "guess" the outcome (or even make up a new one, sometimes with direct consultation in the manga's creator). So while the serialized nature of the beast is only present with long, monthly/weekly manga adaptations, it is the norm in the TV shows. Quite the different outlook, is not it? So yeah, when a book's american adaptation shocks viewers with killing tons of characters - that was not supposed to happen if they were out looking for the most popular cast, trying to keep that up for high view count )-, that is a glimpse, just a tiny bit of glimpse of REAL storytelling.

That being said, I still have huge respect for the writers for any long ongoing shows for being capable of even planning ahead more than half seasons. Now, where was I...oh yes, anime.

Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Show me the equivalent of that. Well thought out, has a diverse cast with people FULL of proper goals, motivations, issues and personal problems to resolve. It has plenty of good twists, drama, deaths, it does not go on longer than it is supposed to, and it makes sense all the way till the very end. Turn the discussion around, show me the US equivalent of that. A show that knows when to go out, one that does not get twisted by rating changes and schedule problems, where the main characters do not get hanging in the air like a broken thread of events like Supernatural's Winchester boys have been doing for what...5 years now?

There are plenty of great shows in both ends of the spectrum, and that is what matters. What I am arguing is that the approach to storytelling is, for the vast majority of anime/american television is *fundamentally* different.

 

[Atrophis]

Anyone not familiar with Satoshi Kons output really needs to educate themselves. Start with his masterpiece Millennium Actress and then his TV show Paranoia Agent. These both stand shoulder to shoulder with the best in their respective mediums.

 

[rhizomatic]

Both Paranoia Agent and Serial Experiments Lain have aired on US television. Nobody cared.

I dunno why they've never aired Monster here, but at least that live-action version is in the works. That could actually work really well, as would a number of other manga by Naoki Urasawa.

Anyway, I was really disappointed by the humor in the first episode of Space Dandy, and the dub really sucked. I've been meaning to watch it subbed for comparison. The humor's just as forced, from what I've heard, but at least the voices are apparently better. The animation was fantastic, which really showed in the second half, but I really had trouble paying attention after all of those extremely uncreative boob jokes.

I think it'll be a pretty big hit here, though. By anime standards, that is.

 

[The Silver]

Both Paranoia Agent and Serial Experiments Lain have aired on US television. Nobody cared.

I dunno why they've never aired Monster, but at least that live-action version is in the works. That could actually work really well, as would a number of other manga by Naoki Urasawa.

Anyway, I was really disappointed by the humor in the first episode of Space Dandy, and the dub really sucked. I've been meaning to watch it subbed for comparison. The humor's just as forced, from what I've heard, but at least the voices are apparently better. The animation was fantastic, which really showed in the second half, but I really had trouble paying attention after all of those extremely uncreative boob jokes.

I think it'll be a pretty big hit here, though. By anime standards, that is.

Monster aired on Sci-Fi

 

[DominoKid]

I love anime but it's not gonna happen. At the end of the day people still see it as cartoons no matter how sophisticated the material is.

 

[zero shift]

The problem with anime is that, much with comic book series, it relies too much on its tropes and pleasing its core fanbase that it turns off mainstream audiences. The only way to win mainstream audiences is to deviate significantly from what makes the medium well the medium. This isn't a bad thing, The Dark Knight was a wonderful film, but it doesn't really feel as much like Batman as say The Red Hood.That being said I feel that many anime can get a reasonable cult following outside of its traditional demographics. I feel that Attack on Titan could work if they clean up some of the overexaggerating cries.

Also I don't know where else to ask so I'll ask it here: Which anime should I watch next? Hunter x Hunter (2011) or Legend of Galactic Heroes?

 

[rhizomatic]

Monster aired on Sci-Fi

It did? Huh. Didn't know that. Well, that's good to know, I guess.

Also I don't know where else to ask so I'll ask it here: Which anime should I watch next? Hunter x Hunter (2011) or Legend of Galactic Heroes?

Depends on what you want. Do you want an epic space opera or an extremely well-done shounen action series?

There's also an anime OT.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Uh.. the problem is not the lack of quality adult titles.

I mean, did Alan Moore's From Hell or V for Vendetta opened comics for the mainstream appreciation of comic as adult works of art? Do people buy comics the same that people buy novels? No.

Well, the same here.

 

[UltraGunner]

Anime will never be taken seriously by the masses for a variety of reasons. Firstly its the fact that for about 90% of anime in a given season you have to actually go and find shows yourself then download them instead of having the networks present shows for you. For most people that's too much effort for simple entertainment. Secondly there is the fact that most adults only see animation in two flavors: audacious sitcoms for adults and cheap entertainment for kids. Now there are exceptions to the rule such as Avatar and the Spawn HBO series, but it mostly follows that formula. So now matter how smartly written and beautifully animated an anime is it will always be considered a lower form of entertainment to some people. And most importantly is that people can never seem to let go of their preconceived notions about anime as a whole. They treat it as if it was a genre instead of a medium for storytelling and thus make sweeping generalizations about every and all anime based solely on a few tropes present in handful on genres within the medium. I have friends who swear that they will never touch an anime series because they think its fan pandering to pedophiles and people who can't find a real girlfriend. No matter how many series I recommend they see they will never touch the entire medium. That's kind of like saying that you will never see a TV show because of shit like Honey Boo Boo or Duck Dynasty. Even with a series that somehow becomes popular with a mainstream audience (lets be honest, when we say this we are really talking about Cowboy Bebop and nothing else) most people will treat it as exceptions to rule, and in some extreme case not even consider them Anime (I've actually met people who treat CB like it was made in the west because it doesn't fit their biases against the medium).

So no, a single series will not change people's opinion on the medium, especially when the tropes that people tend to dislike about Anime are displayed loud and proud in Space Dandy. And you no what, I don't care. When "critics" write these articles they are really talking about Anime being taken seriously in America despite the fact that the they bring virtually nothing in terms of revenue. There is no reason for these Animation Houses to try and appeal to the west, that will only lead to further stagnation of the medium. I say let anime stay a niche product made for nerds; Anime viewers will be happy that the new Anime season isn't fille with police procedurals and medical dramas and Mainstream fans will continue ignoring the medium: Everyone Wins!

 

[Forkball]

Well, what anime is specifically targeted to people over 35? Of course some have mass appeal for all ages, but unlike live action shows and movies, they tend to go for younger audiences.

 

[The Silver]

The problem with anime is that, much with comic book series, it relies too much on its tropes and pleasing its core fanbase that it turns off mainstream audiences. The only way to win mainstream audiences is to deviate significantly from what makes the medium well the medium. This isn't a bad thing, The Dark Knight was a wonderful film, but it doesn't really feel as much like Batman as say The Red Hood.That being said I feel that many anime can get a reasonable cult following outside of its traditional demographics. I feel that Attack on Titan could work if they clean up some of the overexaggerating cries.

Also I don't know where else to ask so I'll ask it here: Which anime should I watch next? Hunter x Hunter (2011) or Legend of Galactic Heroes?

Legend of the Galactic Heroes is more of an epic historical novel than it is an anime, its exactly what you mentioned as it greatly deviates from how nearly all other anime operate, there's really nothing like it.

Hunter X Hunter is arguably the best action adventure shounen out there, if Fairy Tail is all that is wrong and cliche then HxH is all that is good.

HxH is still ongoing, watch LOGTH first and depending how long you take HxH might be nearing its end.

Attack on Titan gets by because of its super interesting premise, the actual writing and characters fall into many standard shounen trappings and tropes.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Now that I think about it, it's true there are a certain lack of quality animes that move in more mainstream genres.

I can think of several quality works, but usually they move in fantastical or sicfi genres, which while having some mainstream success on some films or series (from Star Wars to Games of Thrones), they are still considered geeky and have limited interest for lots of people, fantasy or scifi is a "wall" to surpass for audiences. My mother for example isn't interested in them. For example:

Mushishi - fantastical
Tatami Galaxy - a bit fantastical
Paranoia Agent - fantastical
Gits SAC - sci/fi
Planetes - sci/fi
Legends of Galatic Heroes - sci/fi
Texhnolyze - sci/fi
Evangelion - sci/fi
Kaiba - sci/fi
Tsuritama - fantastical
Steins/Gate - sci/fi
Serial Experiment Lain - sci/fi
Haibane Renmei - fantastical
Uchouten Kazoku - fantastical

I can only think right now of Monster as something good but more "mainstream".


Ironically, the anime medium have "artful", "deep", or just plain "quirky" or "weird" works that work better with the critics, but not as good with the mainstream.

 

[zero shift]

Attack on Titan gets by because of its super interesting premise, the actual writing and characters fall into many standard shounen trappings and tropes.

I would argue that to an extent. Attack on Titan unlike most shounen doesn't treat its viewers like they are idiots. It is reasonably well written and respects its audience. Most of the charcters also seem to be developed reasonably well too. I would go on but its 5am where I live and its hard to think straight. Maybe I'll pop in this thread later.

 

[cajunator]

Anyone not familiar with Satoshi Kons output really needs to educate themselves. Start with his masterpiece Millennium Actress and then his TV show Paranoia Agent. These both stand shoulder to shoulder with the best in their respective mediums.

See this fellow knows wtf is up.

 

[scytheavatar]

The problem with anime is that, much with comic book series, it relies too much on its tropes and pleasing its core fanbase that it turns off mainstream audiences. The only way to win mainstream audiences is to deviate significantly from what makes the medium well the medium. This isn't a bad thing, The Dark Knight was a wonderful film, but it doesn't really feel as much like Batman as say The Red Hood.That being said I feel that many anime can get a reasonable cult following outside of its traditional demographics. I feel that Attack on Titan could work if they clean up some of the overexaggerating cries.

Also I don't know where else to ask so I'll ask it here: Which anime should I watch next? Hunter x Hunter (2011) or Legend of Galactic Heroes?

Watch Non Non Biyori, it's anime at its best. The mainstream audience needs to learn to adapt to anime, not the other way round, because it's a proven fact that the Japanese trying to Westernize themselves is a recipe for disaster. Just ask Sega, Square and Capcom.

 

[The Silver]

I would argue that to an extent. Attack on Titan unlike most shounen doesn't treat its viewers like they are idiots. It is reasonably well written and respects its audience. Most of the charcters also seem to be developed reasonably well too. I would go on but its 5am where I live and its hard to think straight. Maybe I'll pop in this thread later.

It tries to subvert certain tropes but never really follows through, it also shits on the side characters a lot but completely pusses out when it comes to Eren and company.

Any good shounen doesn't treat its audience like idiots(Death Note, HxH, even One Piece) AoT is just notably darker and like I said, it has an incredibly interesting premise, its very good at building mystery, and it tends to deliver on epic moments.(love that Female Titan arc)

I love AoT and it tries to at points but it fails to break free from what it is at its core, a damn action shounen manga with yelling and speeches and big fights and deus ex machinas and all the bells and whistles.

 

[Sadsic]

i remember watching this anime from the late 90s about a kid that accidentally gets teleported to this fucked up alien world where kids are slaves and theres a giant flying tank battleship and everything was awful and all the main characters basically get raped or died.

what was the name of that i forget

either way i thought that was around game of thrones quality in terms of brutal craziness

 

[The Silver]

i remember watching this anime from the late 90s about a kid that accidentally gets teleported to this fucked up alien world where kids are slaves and theres a giant flying tank battleship and everything was awful and all the main characters basically get raped or died.

what was the name of that i forget

either way i thought that was around game of thrones quality in terms of brutal craziness

Sounds like Now and Then, Here and There

 

[Quackula]

i remember watching this anime from the late 90s about a kid that accidentally gets teleported to this fucked up alien world where kids are slaves and theres a giant flying tank battleship and everything was awful and all the main characters basically get raped or died.

what was the name of that i forget

either way i thought that was around game of thrones quality in terms of brutal craziness

My first thought was Gantz but some of the details don't quite line up. (It's not a late 90s show for one)

I think "brutal craziness" describes Gantz pretty damn well though.

 

[zero shift]

Any good shounen doesn't treat its audience like idiots(Death Note, HxH, even One Piece) AoT is just notably darker and like I said, it has an incredibly interesting premise, its very good at building mystery, and it tends to deliver on epic moments.(love that Female Titan arc)

One Piece treats it audience like idiots lots of times. Immediately comes to mind is how the characters almost never die no matter what. I cringed during the Thrillerbark Arc when

Spoiler

Zoro "sacrifices" himself to Kuma, but doesn't die.Its like...fucking really? I knew he wasn't going to die but that's ridiculous that he did not die.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Now that I think about it, it's true there are a certain lack of quality animes that move in more mainstream genres.

I can think of several quality works, but usually they move in fantastical or sicfi genres, which while having some mainstream success on some films or series (from Star Wars to Games of Thrones), they are still considered geeky and have limited interest for lots of people, fantasy or scifi is a "wall" to surpass for audiences. My mother for example isn't interested in them. For example:

Mushishi - fantastical
Tatami Galaxy - a bit fantastical
Paranoia Agent - fantastical
Gits SAC - sci/fi
Planetes - sci/fi
Legends of Galatic Heroes - sci/fi
Texhnolyze - sci/fi
Evangelion - sci/fi
Kaiba - sci/fi
Tsuritama - fantastical
Steins/Gate - sci/fi
Serial Experiment Lain - sci/fi
Haibane Renmei - fantastical
Uchouten Kazoku - fantastical

I can only think right now of Monster as something good but more "mainstream".


Ironically, the anime medium have "artful", "deep", or just plain "quirky" or "weird" works that work better with the critics, but not as good with the mainstream.

Nice list.

I also remember the HyperPolice anime being good... it simply avoided so many cliches and pitfalls of anime that have at least part romantic comedy. Perhaps because it's much more a slice of life/downtrodden bounty hunter than anything else. It's certainly no Lain but unique in it's own way.

 

[BGBW]

Moe needs to be erased from this world

So you want to live in a world of misery? Because finding something moe just means you have a burning desire for it. It's not a thing, it's a feeling.

 

[Riffled]

So you want to live in a world of misery? Because finding something moe just means you have a burning desire for it. It's not a thing, it's a feeling.

Well shows that particulary cater to this feeling have become more.

I think Anime would have been more mainstream had more Leiji Matsumoto shows, Lupin the 3rd etc. gotten the TV exposure in the 70's and 80's like in France and Italy. Everything on TV got views, but now you have so much choice there is no guarantee someone stumbles upon it.

 

[kazebyaka]

One Piece treats it audience like idiots lots of times. Immediately comes to mind is how the characters almost never die no matter what. I cringed during the Thrillerbark Arc when

Spoiler

Zoro "sacrifices" himself to Kuma, but doesn't die.Its like...fucking really? I knew he wasn't going to die but that's ridiculous that he did not die.

In One Piece main characters never die and they never kill anybody, it is what it is. It's a conscious choice by author from the start. You just accept it and never ever question. With a world of One Piece, you just have to accept everything it has or just never watch it.

 

[zero shift]

In One Piece main characters never die and they never kill anybody, it is what it is. It's a conscious choice by author from the start. You just accept it and never ever question. With a world of One Piece, you just have to accept everything it has or just never watch it.

My main point was that the show treated it as if "OMG he's going to die!"