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[Zyzyxxz]

To be honest, that's one of the best wagons I've seen and would even consider buying. Last wagon to make me actually want to purchase one was the Magnum.

unfortunately the Optima Wagon does not exist yet but its not unlikely they will produce one since Hyundai is making one and they are basically copy-catting each others models since they are part of the same corporate umbrella.

The only question is whether it will hit stateside.

 

[ecnal]

Heh, Dynojet. Drop 20% off of that figure.

exactly.

an RSX-S with basic boltons will be lucky to dyno 200whp on a mustang dyno.

aka more dyno nonsense from boobphysics101.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

lame.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/25/report-honda-nsx-development-soldiers-on/

Honda wants to make the successor to the NSX a bigger, badder version of the CR-Z... it at least better look at good as the original one.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

uh...

you're delirious if you believe anything you wrote. i just pulled the first 4 quick dyno results, and they're all comparable:









so no, just no.

So you throw up dynographs but can't provide any info for what elevation they're at or the ambient temperature? You know, two of the most important variables when discussing dynographs?

exactly.

an RSX-S with basic boltons will be lucky to dyno 200whp on a mustang dyno.

aka more dyno nonsense from boobphysics101.

What exactly are you proving here? That most cars dyno lower on a mustang dyno?

No shit, sherlock. Every car is going to have much lower numbers on a mustang dyno vs a dynojet/dynapack. Z06 would dyno at about 400whp on a mustang dyno.

Check it out:

We had a chance today to dyno a customers 2006 Z06. The car was bone stock with 1,500 miles. The first run was done on our Mustang Dyno and the second was done on our Dyno-Jet.

Mustang Dyno numbers were 414RWHP / 390 RWTQ
Dyno-Jet numbers were 453RWHP / 423 RWTQ

"OMG, a Z06 is lucky to break past 400 whp on a mustang dyno."

Some people really don't understand that comparing dyno numbers between dyno types and with different variables is meaningless.

 

[reilo]

So you throw up dynographs but can't provide any info for what elevation they're at or the ambient temperature? You know, two of the most important variables when discussing dynographs?

Eh, in this argument, the burden of proof is on you. He showed more in the way of disproving your figures than what you presented initially as "fact".

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Eh, in this argument, the burden of proof is on you. He showed more in the way of disproving your figures than what you presented initially as "fact".

My numbers are based on what is usually seen here at SoCal. We're close to sea level and the most popular dyno is dynojet, followed by dynapack. My numbers may be a bit skewed because of that, but you can always adjust for your elevation level/ambient temperature. I'd have to throw out 10x as many numbers if I were going to try to explain the average power levels for RSX-S bolt-ons for the majority of people's conditions.

See my Z06 dyno above... arguing the semantics of the dyno numbers is just dickish.

I'll put it simply: K20's usually gain 30-40 whp just from basic bolt-ons, 50-70 whp with engine work, and 80-100 whp with the K24 block thrown on.

Not sure how much clearer it can be so that ecnal doesn't douche all over my posts.

 

[reilo]

My numbers are based on what is usually seen here at SoCal. We're close to sea level and the most popular dyno is dynojet, followed by dynapack. My numbers may be a bit skewed because of that, but you can always adjust for your elevation level/ambient temperature. I'd have to throw out 10x as many numbers if I were going to try to explain the average power levels for RSX-S bolt-ons for the majority of people's conditions.

See my Z06 dyno above... arguing the semantics of the dyno numbers is just dickish.

I'll put it simply: K20's usually gain 30-40 whp just from basic bolt-ons, 50-70 whp with engine work, and 80-100 whp with the K24 block thrown on.

Not sure how much clearer it can be so that ecnal doesn't douche all over my posts.

Sure, they can, but you're throwing those numbers out there like it's a "simple" thing to do. To gain that extra 80whp, you're talking about re-doing the bottom of the block and dropping in several thousands of dollars of custom work.

So, no, it's not "simple" work especially when advanced tunes are involved, and it's not cheap, either.

And hell, if you were being honest about the numbers, you would have thrown the caveat out there that those are numbers from SoCal on a Dynojet. That shit matters.

 

[Viperbah]

And your engine is a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder, right?

Point was, the engine is impressive, especially considering how small it is. It's like a smaller LSx with higher revs. I forget what kind of car you drive again... save me the time of searching, por favor?

What?

 

[mkenyon]

so other than the gas mileage on the outback, any other issues? how do you like it overall?

Loved it. Every Subaru I've owned has been amazing. I do a lot of mountain driving/dirt road stuff as well, and the Outback was fantastic. I'd go as far to say that Subaru has become the poor man's BMW.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Sure, they can, but you're throwing those numbers out there like it's a "simple" thing to do. To gain that extra 80whp, you're talking about re-doing the bottom of the block and dropping in several thousands of dollars of custom work.

So, no, it's not "simple" work especially when advanced tunes are involved, and it's not cheap, either.

And hell, if you were being honest about the numbers, you would have thrown the caveat out there that those are numbers from SoCal on a Dynojet. That shit matters.

Again, semantics. I just cleared it up with my above post, since apparently we're sitting around nitpicking. Those numbers and gains remain the same whether you're in SoCal or wherever. The only thing that changes is the baseline. YMMV based on locale/geography.

It's asinine that you're trying to argue that I have to throw these kind of disclaimers in there while talking about power #'s...

And it is simple to throw on bolt-ons and a tune, and not overly expensive. $1.5-2k and you've got an extra 40 whp and still pushing out 35+ MPG highway. But yeah, the bottom end is an extreme measure, I used it as an example of the upper boundaries of all motor with K20.

This has gotten way off track.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

What?

The parallel makes sense. Both engines are similar in reliability, power output per liter, NA potential power gains, size relative to cylinder count, etc. The K20 is the LSx of the 4 cylinder world.

Wait for the new LSx to be unveiled... it'll have even more parallels to the K20 (Chevy is going for higher revs in the new LS series)...

 

[ecnal]

My numbers are based on what is usually seen here at SoCal. We're close to sea level and the most popular dyno is dynojet, followed by dynapack. My numbers may be a bit skewed because of that, but you can always adjust for your elevation level/ambient temperature. I'd have to throw out 10x as many numbers if I were going to try to explain the average power levels for RSX-S bolt-ons for the majority of people's conditions.

See my Z06 dyno above... arguing the semantics of the dyno numbers is just dickish.

I'll put it simply: K20's usually gain 30-40 whp just from basic bolt-ons, 50-70 whp with engine work, and 80-100 whp with the K24 block thrown on.

Not sure how much clearer it can be so that ecnal doesn't douche all over my posts.

see, now you've substantially altered your initial claim.

gaining 30-40whp != 230-240whp.

i don't see an issue with your new claim, as even the dyno results i posted would be in line with that -- assuming most k20's dyno 170-175whp stock, which, in my quick search, appears to be accurate.

don't get mad because i called you out on an obviously false claim. no rsx on planet earth is making 240whp with i/rh/e, period.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

might have to come home with me.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

see, now you've substantially altered your initial claim.

gaining 30-40whp != 230-240whp.

i don't see an issue with your new claim, as even the dyno results i posted would be in line with that -- assuming most k20's dyno 170-175whp stock, which, in my quick search, appears to be accurate.

don't get mad because i called you out on an obviously false claim. no rsx on planet earth is making 240whp with i/rh/e, period.

It must be nice to be wrong.

First, there's more than one K20

K20a3 = shitty K20 in EP3 Si/base RSX
K20a2 = original K20 in USDM 02-04 Type S, 170-175 whp
K20a = JDM K20 in Civic Type R/Integra Type R, dynos 190-195 whp
K20z1 = K20 from the 05-06 RSX-S, 180-185 whp
K20z3 = K20 in the 06+ USDM Si

Here's a USDM K20z3 making 230 whp with just bolt-ons + tune.

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt...k-head-bottom-end-w-just-skunk2-bolt-ons.html

A K20a would make about 10 whp more.

There's your 240 whp bolt-on K20. Have fun arguing about dyno types etc.

might have to come home with me.

SEX.

Do it. The 4s is HOT.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

SEX.

Do it. The 4s is HOT.

all she needs is the Turbo spoiler.

hmmmmmmm

they're gonna have to detail the engine, doors, hood and pipes before I commit to picking it up, though. In fact, they should have done that before taking these pictures.

 

[ecnal]

It must be nice to be wrong.

First, there's more than one K20

K20a3 = shitty K20 in EP3 Si/base RSX
K20a2 = original K20 in USDM 02-04 Type S, 170-175 whp
K20a = JDM K20 in Civic Type R/Integra Type R, dynos 190-195 whp
K20z1 = K20 from the 05-06 RSX-S, 180-185 whp
K20z3 = K20 in the 06+ USDM Si

Here's a USDM K20z3 making 230 whp with just bolt-ons + tune.

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt...k-head-bottom-end-w-just-skunk2-bolt-ons.html

A K20a would make about 10 whp more.

you actually took the bait. i was hoping you'd post these -- or any of the other 240whp [or 239whp i can remember specifically] results from Church.

dyno results are from Church's dynapack, which, as even this community will note [http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/8882711-post32.html] reads HIGHER than even normal dynapacks, which already give inflated results. in that same thread they also said they got a STOCK type-s to dyno 230whp... LOL.

its common knowledge that their numbers are inflated

their numbers are inflated

numbers are inflated

 

[BoobPhysics101]

you actually took the bait. i was hoping you'd post these -- or any of the other 240whp [or 239whp i can remember specifically] results from Church.

dyno results are from Church's dynapack, which, as even this community will note [http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/8882711-post32.html] reads HIGHER than even normal dynapacks, which already give inflated results. in that same thread they also said they got a STOCK type-s to dyno 230whp... LOL.

I'm so glad I've got you to state the obvious. Everyone knows about Church.

But apparently in your 'excitement' to prove me wrong, you apparently failed to note that I didn't post a dyno from Church at all.

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt...k-head-bottom-end-w-just-skunk2-bolt-ons.html

JoTech Performance in South Florida

Results from a Dynojet

JoTech Performance... South Florida
Results... Dynojet

JoTech Performance
Dynojet

Shawn Church is in Southern California, about 45 mins from me. Perhaps you failed both English and Geography, but Church != JoTech Performance...And SoCal isn't next to Southern Florida.

Sorry to burst your jack-ass bubble.

derp

 

[ecnal]

my mistake, first graph didn't load. i thought it was the graph on the bottom of the page.

still doesn't change the fact that those numbers are inflated:

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=299528&page=20

read from the 2nd post on the page, and notice the reaction.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

my mistake, first graph didn't load. i thought it was the graph on the bottom of the page.

still doesn't change the fact that those numbers are inflated:

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=299528&page=20

read from the 2nd post on the page, and notice the reaction.

Derp.

I've explained it before and apparently it's a bit beyond you, but inflated numbers don't exist. I don't know if you understand this, but a dyno isn't for comparing numbers, it is simply a tuning tool. Trying to compare numbers between dynos, locations, etc is an exercise in frustration.

And the perception of numbers can be summed up simply: the glass is half empty or the glass is half full. Does that make sense? The numbers are too low or the numbers are too high. It is subjective.

There is no "standard" dyno. Even crank bhp as measured by manufacturers is bullshit (see: 335i 300 bhp rating when it's actually more akin to 330 bhp when measured using similar methods).

If you can't understand this, then you can't understand that what you're arguing is neither here nor there.

I'm not wrong, and neither are you. Does that make you feel better? Or are you simply out to prove someone wrong? Hate to break it to you, but you can't. You can't prove me 'wrong' by posting that 'the numbers are inflated' because they're neither inflated nor underrated, they are simply the numbers on that dyno.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

LOL, holy shit this pointless banter means nothing in context from the originating point, the person who you were answering is not interested in an RSX and that is that.

The performance factor you brag about is irrelevant regardless of who is right.

 

[reilo]

might have to come home with me.

Hawt.

Needs better wheels though.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Hawt.

Needs better wheels though.

personally, I'm shocked that the physician who originally bought the car thought those wheels were even remotely acceptable. they're horrible.

 

[reilo]

personally, I'm shocked that the physician who originally bought the car thought those wheels were even remotely acceptable. they're horrible.

They almost look like hubcaps. Almost.

Get these: http://www.forgestar.com/v2/wheelsf14.php

I'd get those with my Porsch.

 

[ecnal]

Derp.

I've explained it before and apparently it's a bit beyond you, but inflated numbers don't exist. I don't know if you understand this, but a dyno isn't for comparing numbers, it is simply a tuning tool. Trying to compare numbers between dynos, locations, etc is an exercise in frustration.

And the perception of numbers can be summed up simply: the glass is half empty or the glass is half full. Does that make sense? The numbers are too low or the numbers are too high. It is subjective.

There is no "standard" dyno. Even crank bhp as measured by manufacturers is bullshit (see: 335i 300 bhp rating when it's actually more akin to 330 bhp when measured using similar methods).

If you can't understand this, then you can't understand that what you're arguing is neither here nor there.

I'm not wrong, and neither are you. Does that make you feel better? Or are you simply out to prove someone wrong? Hate to break it to you, but you can't. You can't prove me 'wrong' by posting that 'the numbers are inflated' because they're neither inflated nor underrated, they are simply the numbers on that dyno.

a 1:1 dyno comparison is essentially impossible -- for all of the reasons listed.

however, averages can easily be made over the course of time -- or if enough data is present. if 500 dynojets scattered across various geographical locations say X car has ~200whp stock and 50 other dynojets say the car has ~230whp stock, it's pretty easy to decipher which dynos are reading higher and/or have incorrect corrections or calibrations.

if the aforementioned weren't true, Church wouldn't have the notorious reputation that he does in relation to his dyno's readings.

moreover, there would be plenty of other real-world indicators that would suggest a k20 w/ bolt-ons has 230-240whp -- specifically track times and trap speeds. for non drag slick equiped RSX-S's, it is most certainly true that these cares are NOT making 230-240whp. a bolt-on RSX-S can barely break into the 13s, when a 13.4-13.6 should easily be achievable.

with that said -- and with what you posted -- i'm still confused as to why you would initially assert the following then:

I'm going to assume you're not familiar with K20's. They hit 230-240 whp just with basic bolt-ons and a tune

you're suggesting that ALL k20s will dyno 230-240whp with bolt-ons, which, based on your quoted post alone, is not true -- it may be true in a specific instance (e.g. a specific dyno), but it's not true for all.

it's especially not true when you factor in an overwhelming amount of data from various dynos across the country that all magically fit within a perfectly acceptable range of variation given SAE corrections and dyno calibrations:

N/A Dyno sheets
average stock whp and average popular mods whp

apologies to the rest of the thread. as zyzyxxz said, i'm not even sure how we're here talking about an RSX. i'm done with the subject -- if you want to respond boob, feel free to pm me, but lets finish the discussion here.

ps dreams; HRE's, DO IT.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

They almost look like hubcaps. Almost.

Get these: http://www.forgestar.com/v2/wheelsf14.php

I'd get those with my Porsch.

 

[robox]

between pushing the tsx, the rsx and owning an s2000, boobs is just a big ol' honda fanboy.

i've heard that forgestars are not actually forged, if that matters to yous.

 

[AlphaSnake]

That Porsche is about to be two refresh cycles old at the end of the year, and its console looks like a 1970s calculator. Sorry, I'd rather get an M3 if you really want to spend $60K on something German. It looks better inside out, and it's just as quick. Plus it'll be new and covered under BMW's warranty.

 

[reilo]

That Porsche is about to be two refresh cycles old at the end of the year, and its console looks like a 1970s calculator. Sorry, I'd rather get an M3 if you really want to spend $60K on something German. It looks better inside out, and it's just as quick. Plus it'll be new and covered under BMW's warranty.

Eh, not really comparable cars in what they set out to do. I love the new M3 for what it does, but the Porsche is a different kind of car.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Eh, not really comparable cars in what they set out to do. I love the new M3 for what it does, but the Porsche is a different kind of car.

They're not comparable for track duty, maybe. But for what he's looking for? A 2+2 coupe with ~400HP, RWD, agile, and German? Sure fits the bill.

 

[reilo]

They're not comparable for track duty, maybe. But for what he's looking for? A 2+2 coupe with ~400HP, RWD, agile, and German? Sure fits the bill.

What if he's looking for an ultra-reliable light-weight AWD coupe with the engine in the rear? He's also not specifically looking for anything German, as far as I can tell.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

They're not comparable for track duty, maybe. But for what he's looking for? A 2+2 coupe with ~400HP, RWD, agile, and German? Sure fits the bill.

but...one's a Porsche 911. an AWD Porsche.

 

[AlphaSnake]

What if he's looking for an ultra-reliable light-weight AWD coupe with the engine in the rear? He's also not specifically looking for anything German, as far as I can tell.

Well hey, if he wants rear-engined, there's not much else, eh?

 

[reilo]

Well hey, if he wants rear-engined, there's not much else, eh?

There's Lamborghini, Ferrari, and the Audi R8 if you want to go up several pay scales. That's why the Porsche Carrera 4S stands out.

 

[AlphaSnake]

There's Lamborghini, Ferrari, and the Audi R8 if you want to go up several pay scales. That's why the Porsche Carrera 4S stands out.

Admittedly...I'd try to find a used R8. But doubt you can find one for 60k.

 

[ecnal]

They almost look like hubcaps. Almost.

Get these: http://www.forgestar.com/v2/wheelsf14.php

I'd get those with my Porsch.

there are only two choices:

ADV.1 (ex designer from HRE started ADV.1)

and

HRE

 

[BoobPhysics101]

between pushing the tsx, the rsx and owning an s2000, boobs is just a big ol' honda fanboy.

i've heard that forgestars are not actually forged, if that matters to yous.

I'm actually a big Honda, Porsche, and BMW fanboy if you're going to attach descriptors to me, so make sure to be as accurate as possible.

I'm also a huge fan of saving money + bang for the buck, and right now the TSX/RSX are at great prices especially considering that they're high quality, fun, economical cars.

 

[reilo]

Admittedly...I'd try to find a used R8. But doubt you can find one for 60k.

Yep, exactly. Which is why the Porsch is so appealing.

there are only two choices:

ADV.1 (ex designer from HRE started ADV.1)

and

HRE

Not bad. Bookmarked.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

all she needs is the Turbo spoiler.

hmmmmmmm

they're gonna have to detail the engine, doors, hood and pipes before I commit to picking it up, though. In fact, they should have done that before taking these pictures.

Just buy the Turbo spoiler from a crashed 911.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

there are only two choices:

ADV.1 (ex designer from HRE started ADV.1)

and

HRE

call me crazy but I think Yokohama Super Advans would look sick on a 911.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Just buy the Turbo spoiler from a crashed 911.

I assume that would be a long wait.

and damn, all those wheels look sick. I guess I'm going to have to start photoshopping to get an idea of which would look best.

honestly, those stock wheels are probably the worst I've ever seen on a car over $50,000. They're disrespectful to the car.

 

[ecnal]

call me crazy but I think Yokohama Super Advans would look sick on a 911.
http://www.yokohamatire.jp/yrc/japan/wheel/brand/superad_sa3rv2/image/wheel_01.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

there are a lot of japanese rims that look great on porsches and other high end euro cars...

[IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/2hds75z.jpg

volk TE37s. hot.

i just think for the money -- we're talking well over $1K per rim -- you can get a one-off completely custom wheel from ADV or HRE.

also dreams, if you're in socal, seriously check out ACG (tagged on the photo). they do great work, and definitely consider ordering ANY parts from them -- price check with them at the very least. they're extremely prompt, honest, and concise when giving estimates on work and the amount of time it can take. i seriously can't say enough good things about them. top notch, plain and simple.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

they're on the top of my list now. those black/red wheels are just gorgeous. to die for, even.

just perfect. and I want to steal that spoiler.

 

[Halvie]

they're on the top of my list now. those black/red wheels are just gorgeous.

just perfect. and I want to steal that spoiler.

Oh God...please don't put time attack wheels on the Porsche if you get it. Talk about the most played color scheme there is. Yeah to the TE37, but get a different color.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Oh God...please don't put time attack wheels on the Porsche if you get it. Talk about the most played color scheme there is. Yeah to the TE37, but get a different color.

what are "time attack" wheels?

 

[Pterion]

Man the new porsches are just so sexy. *drools*

 

[AlphaSnake]

what are "time attack" wheels?

Anything with a red stripe around the edge.

 

[ecnal]

Oh God...please don't put time attack wheels on the Porsche if you get it. Talk about the most played color scheme there is. Yeah to the TE37, but get a different color.

see, that's the other issue at hand here.

call me elitist or w/e, but if i'm dropping $1K+ per rim, i'm not going to get a rim you'll see a 90's civic hatch rocking.

they're on the top of my list now. those black/red wheels are just gorgeous. to die for, even.

just perfect. and I want to steal that spoiler.

specs on the rims:
19x8.5 +52
19x12 +65
On the rear a 17mm OEM Porsche spacer was used.

the wing is probably from techart -- not 100% sure though.

 

[Halvie]

Anything with a red stripe around the edge.

What he said. Might as well get some douchey chrome "rims" if you are thinking time attacks.

Also check out the ce28n. Lightest you are going to get without spending a lot more. Not sure how they would look on the car though.

If you can afford the AVD wheels I would get those. Rare. Light. Amazing. Do AVD.10.

 

[ecnal]

What he said. Might as well get some douchey chrome "rims" if you are thinking time attacks.

Also check out the ce28n. Lightest you are going to get without spending a lot more. Not sure how they would look on the car though.

If you can afford the AVD wheels I would get those. Rare. Light. Amazing. Do AVD.10.

MY MAN.

 

[reilo]

No to the red stripe!