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[SePhoBroth]

Okay, look. I think you both need to chill and maybe take this to PM or something. I don't know jack shit about the technical stuff you guys are arguing about, but I do know that it's getting really heated and you're both not doing yourselves any favors by adding insults and shit each time you reply. Other members of this thread are getting annoyed because it's pretty pointless now.

I'll appreciate if you guys take it to PM, or agree to disagree, or if you feel that it's a educational and worthwhile topic to debate on, at least flesh out your points in more detail so other people can understand it and participate. Also cut down on the name calling and stuff. You're not kids, and we're not in a bar here. Thanks.

He started the name calling! j/k Sorry everybody, I apologize for my actions.

 

[J-Rzez]

It's most common to first work on AFR, and at times it can be pretty beneficial. If a car is too "rich" (too much fuel), it can bog down, make less power, waste fuel, and foul components. If you "lean" out the car (take fuel out) it's most common to see some power gains from this, and many NA car tuners will go at this. Some big-power Turbo cars will not be leaned out to the bloody edge though, as fuel acts like a buffer to prevent detonation. It tends to run "cooler" temps, and has a greater margin of error depending even on if you get a bad tank of fuel from a station. You're better to err on the rich side, as you'll be more likely just to "foul" plugs or O2 sensors, where as running too lean will more likely cause catastrophic engine failure, as detonation is not a good thing. If you're not leaned out enough to cause quick damage, you'll notice your plugs and possibly walls and pistons speckled with hot-spots. As everyone knows, it's a controlled explosion/burn in the cylinder, but when you get massive hot spots, the mixture sprayed into there can end up detonating when it's not supposed to prematurely like when the piston isn't in position to recess and instead it blows as it's just on it's way up, which can = $$$$ repairs.

Timing can make power too. It's just more common to do this once you're running new cams with a different profile, with cam gears. And usually, USUALLY it's done at the same time or after AFR is tweaked. This is something that you should really have a pro do, and not just say, "i'll throw a couple degrees here, take a few there, and see how it goes".

VTEC controllers are a scary thing as well at times. People don't realize it but you can have it engage too soon and it'll then, or eventually cause engine damage. My friend swapped a B18C into his Civic DX and he read the wrong stuff on the net, and after a few weeks he ran into problems. Now, companies like Hondata research all of this. If they have piggy-backs or flashes that do this you can be sure it's more likely in the safe zone for it.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Okay, look. I think you both need to chill and maybe take this to PM or something. I don't know jack shit about the technical stuff you guys are arguing about, but I do know that it's getting really heated and you're both not doing yourselves any favors by adding insults and shit each time you reply. Other members of this thread are getting annoyed because it's pretty pointless now.

I'll appreciate if you guys take it to PM, or agree to disagree, or if you feel that it's a educational and worthwhile topic to debate on, at least flesh out your points in more detail so other people can understand it and participate. Also cut down on the name calling and stuff. You're not kids, and we're not in a bar here. Thanks.

As someone that's probably made the most posts in this thread, I actually don't mind this at all and am not annoyed. BoobsPhysics has definitely taken the time to add quite a lot of detail to his posts and even though the debate is energized, I wouldn't say heated. I've seen much worse around the OT that no one ever batted an eye lash to.

I'm kind of loving this talk, it's nice to debate about something technical...and not just what kind of vanilla front-wheel drive coupe should someone buy.

 

[duckroll]

As someone that's probably made the most posts in this thread, I actually don't mind this at all and am not annoyed. BoobsPhysics has definitely taken the time to add quite a lot of detail to his posts and even though the debate is energized, I wouldn't say heated. I've seen much worse around the OT that no one ever batted an eye lash to.

I'm kind of loving this talk, it's nice to debate about something technical...and not just what kind of vanilla front-wheel drive coupe should someone buy.

Talking the most doesn't make your opinion any more important. There is no place on this forum for an argument to devolve into name calling and insults.

 

[grendelrt]

As someone that's probably made the most posts in this thread, I actually don't mind this at all and am not annoyed. BoobsPhysics has definitely taken the time to add quite a lot of detail to his posts and even though the debate is energized, I wouldn't say heated. I've seen much worse around the OT that no one ever batted an eye lash to.

I'm kind of loving this talk, it's nice to debate about something technical...and not just what kind of vanilla front-wheel drive coupe should someone buy.

I didnt mind the discussion either, but the name calling and superiority complex was getting pretty old, most car forums I am on would have locked the thread or banned one of them haha.

 

[Fatalah]

I saw the new Ford Focus at the Internet Week in NYC a few days ago. What a nice looking car; I love everything Ford's CEO is has done since taking over.

They even had an all-electric model on the floor. I used to hate Ford styling.

 

[grendelrt]

I saw the new Ford Focus at the Internet Week in NYC a few days ago. What a nice looking car; I love everything Ford's CEO is has done since taking over.

They even had an all-electric model on the floor. I used to hate Ford styling.

Looks like ford is still using a bit of their Aston Martin experience in that one, which is obviously a good thing :O

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Looks like ford is still using a bit of their Aston Martin experience in that one, which is obviously a good thing :O

That front end definitely looks like an Aston.

 

[AlphaSnake]

It's most common to first work on AFR, and at times it can be pretty beneficial. If a car is too "rich" (too much fuel), it can bog down, make less power, waste fuel, and foul components. If you "lean" out the car (take fuel out) it's most common to see some power gains from this, and many NA car tuners will go at this. Some big-power Turbo cars will not be leaned out to the bloody edge though, as fuel acts like a buffer to prevent detonation. It tends to run "cooler" temps, and has a greater margin of error depending even on if you get a bad tank of fuel from a station. You're better to err on the rich side, as you'll be more likely just to "foul" plugs or O2 sensors, where as running too lean will more likely cause catastrophic engine failure, as detonation is not a good thing. If you're not leaned out enough to cause quick damage, you'll notice your plugs and possibly walls and pistons speckled with hot-spots. As everyone knows, it's a controlled explosion/burn in the cylinder, but when you get massive hot spots, the mixture sprayed into there can end up detonating when it's not supposed to prematurely like when the piston isn't in position to recess and instead it blows as it's just on it's way up, which can = $$$$ repairs.

Timing can make power too. It's just more common to do this once you're running new cams with a different profile, with cam gears. And usually, USUALLY it's done at the same time or after AFR is tweaked. This is something that you should really have a pro do, and not just say, "i'll throw a couple degrees here, take a few there, and see how it goes".

Right. And to the best of my knowledge (I'm a Nissan and Audi guy, not Honda), but tuning a 20 year old 4-banger Honda motor and tuning a VQ37 or hell, even an F20/F22 motor are worlds different. Older Honda motors were designed to run on low octane gasoline - and I do not believe they had knock sensors that would retard timing and vice versa. So playing around with the timing on those cars is beneficial and adds power, so long as you never use anything less than premium grade octane (91 or 93).

That said, timing on more modern motors is different. Cars like the S2000 are designed to run 91-93 only, so their timing is optimized from the factory. The ECU already does a good job of playing around with timing based on the octane you've used. Likewise, cars have knock sensors that will retard timing if you had no choice but to use 89 - so it prevents engine knock. So timing on modern motors is already pretty flexible on its own. Now, higher octane fuel (100+) WILL net power with the proper timing map in your ECU tune...but the moment you decide to run 93 octane using that map, the knock sensor is immediately overwritten by the tune and your motor will begin to knock, because the ECU's new map will prevent timing adjustments.

So, a lot of older Hondas (and other cars for that matter) that were originally designed to run 87 octane and don't do much as far retard timing or advance timing automatically stand to gain quite a bit of power with timing adjustments and advancing. But modern day motors like the F20/F22, VQs, etc. don't gain much at all, because they come designed from the factory to run higher octane fuel and retard or advance timing as they see fit.

One quick example, when I had a VQ30DE-K Maxima (a 2001) I actually fiddled around with its timing. BTDC was 14-15 from factory, I increased it to 17-degrees (18 and 19 caused ping/knock), and it made a world of a difference in how the car felt in the higher rev-range. I went back and forth between different timings and felt an immediate difference with the changes. The reason for it was because that particular car was designed to run 91+, but it did not advance timing if you ran 93, it would only retard if went lower (not very well, I might add). So, with my timing advance, my Maxima could NOT be ran using 91 anymore, otherwise it'd knock (and we verified this on another car). It was 93 only.

So, in conclusion. Older cars have room for power with timing advances. Most newer cars don't.

 

[AlphaSnake]

AlphaSnake 188
Zyzyxxz 184
BoobPhysics101 156
reilo 141
twinturbo2 129

Woo!

 

[Zyzyxxz]

AlphaSnake 188
Zyzyxxz 184
BoobPhysics101 156
reilo 141
twinturbo2 129

Woo!

how do you check who has the most posts?

 

[BoobPhysics101]

This is why I think you are stupid. It's so funny, I might just post this on H-t. lol This is exactly why I say you are clueless about Hondas in the first place. smh. You would be laughed at religiously at any competent car forum saying that. I guess that's why you're posting here acting like you actually know what you're talking about. lol Only thing you demonstrated is that you're liar, you don't know how to read timing maps and it's a shame for you to call yourself a real car enthusiast.

lol. Now I know this guy is a troll. Basically he's taken everything I've said about him and just repeated it back to me without proving anything or posting anything to back his argument up. I haven't lied about anything, and I've actually posted up pictures of my S2000 and used evidence to back up my position on tuning. I'll keep waiting for you to post up pics of your build, dynographs, and what size turbo etc you're running, but I certainly don't see it coming.

Also, go ahead and post it up on HT, any of the tuners on there are going to laugh at you and it's going to backfire on you just like this thread did, I guarantee it. Please do it, I'd love to see that.

It's most common to first work on AFR, and at times it can be pretty beneficial. If a car is too "rich" (too much fuel), it can bog down, make less power, waste fuel, and foul components. If you "lean" out the car (take fuel out) it's most common to see some power gains from this, and many NA car tuners will go at this. Some big-power Turbo cars will not be leaned out to the bloody edge though, as fuel acts like a buffer to prevent detonation. It tends to run "cooler" temps, and has a greater margin of error depending even on if you get a bad tank of fuel from a station. You're better to err on the rich side, as you'll be more likely just to "foul" plugs or O2 sensors, where as running too lean will more likely cause catastrophic engine failure, as detonation is not a good thing. If you're not leaned out enough to cause quick damage, you'll notice your plugs and possibly walls and pistons speckled with hot-spots. As everyone knows, it's a controlled explosion/burn in the cylinder, but when you get massive hot spots, the mixture sprayed into there can end up detonating when it's not supposed to prematurely like when the piston isn't in position to recess and instead it blows as it's just on it's way up, which can = $$$$ repairs.

Timing can make power too. It's just more common to do this once you're running new cams with a different profile, with cam gears. And usually, USUALLY it's done at the same time or after AFR is tweaked. This is something that you should really have a pro do, and not just say, "i'll throw a couple degrees here, take a few there, and see how it goes".

VTEC controllers are a scary thing as well at times. People don't realize it but you can have it engage too soon and it'll then, or eventually cause engine damage. My friend swapped a B18C into his Civic DX and he read the wrong stuff on the net, and after a few weeks he ran into problems. Now, companies like Hondata research all of this. If they have piggy-backs or flashes that do this you can be sure it's more likely in the safe zone for it.

Everything you said in this post is 100% true.

Right. And to the best of my knowledge (I'm a Nissan and Audi guy, not Honda), but tuning a 20 year old 4-banger Honda motor and tuning a VQ37 or hell, even an F20/F22 motor are worlds different. Older Honda motors were designed to run on low octane gasoline - and I do not believe they had knock sensors that would retard timing and vice versa. So playing around with the timing on those cars is beneficial and adds power, so long as you never use anything less than premium grade octane (91 or 93).

That said, timing on more modern motors is different. Cars like the S2000 are designed to run 91-93 only, so their timing is optimized from the factory. The ECU already does a good job of playing around with timing based on the octane you've used. Likewise, cars have knock sensors that will retard timing if you had no choice but to use 89 - so it prevents engine knock. So timing on modern motors is already pretty flexible on its own. Now, higher octane fuel (100+) WILL net power with the proper timing map in your ECU tune...but the moment you decide to run 93 octane using that map, the knock sensor is immediately overwritten by the tune and your motor will begin to knock, because the ECU's new map will prevent timing adjustments.

So, a lot of older Hondas (and other cars for that matter) that were originally designed to run 87 octane and don't do much as far retard timing or advance timing automatically stand to gain quite a bit of power with timing adjustments and advancing. But modern day motors like the F20/F22, VQs, etc. don't gain much at all, because they come designed from the factory to run higher octane fuel and retard or advance timing as they see fit.

One quick example, when I had a VQ30DE-K Maxima (a 2001) I actually fiddled around with its timing. BTDC was 14-15 from factory, I increased it to 17-degrees (18 and 19 caused ping/knock), and it made a world of a difference in how the car felt in the higher rev-range. I went back and forth between different timings and felt an immediate difference with the changes. The reason for it was because that particular car was designed to run 91+, but it did not advance timing if you ran 93, it would only retard if went lower (not very well, I might add). So, with my timing advance, my Maxima could NOT be ran using 91 anymore, otherwise it'd knock (and we verified this on another car). It was 93 only.

So, in conclusion. Older cars have room for power with timing advances. Most newer cars don't.

Yup, this is all true too. We only have shitty 91 octane here in SoCal so we don't get the benefits of 93 like most people, and the S loves 91 at the minimum due to the high compression engine. However, one thing that balances it out is that we're at or close to sea level so we make a lot more power than a lot of tuners in the rest of the country if SAE corrected to the sameish conditions on a dyno.

California blows ass with its 'special' crappy 91 mix, so you're lucky that you could even run 93 on any of yours, haha. And yeah, the S2000 doesn't really need a ton of timing changes to make power, most of the tune is focused on AFR to optimize the power beneath the curve. The same thing applies to K series engines as well; I wouldn't bother making power on B series unless it's boosted, which is why I found it funny that Final Fantasy fanboy tried to make power on a stock NA B16 and failed.

Sorry for the big flamewar, but it's really frustrating when someone comes and starts trolling and posting BS, especially without backing up or substantiating their claims. If Seph were writing an English paper, he'd have bombed the intro, written a poorly worded thesis, absolutely failed in backing up his claims in the main body and the conclusion is that he's a troll unless he proves otherwise.

AlphaSnake 188
Zyzyxxz 184
BoobPhysics101 156
reilo 141
twinturbo2 129

Woo!

Damn, I like this thread too much. Alpha, I need you to start posting twice for every post I make, lol.

 

[J-Rzez]

Right. And to the best of my knowledge (I'm a Nissan and Audi guy, not Honda), but tuning a 20 year old 4-banger Honda motor and tuning a VQ37 or hell, even an F20/F22 motor are worlds different. Older Honda motors were designed to run on low octane gasoline - and I do not believe they had knock sensors that would retard timing and vice versa. So playing around with the timing on those cars is beneficial and adds power, so long as you never use anything less than premium grade octane (91 or 93).

That said, timing on more modern motors is different. Cars like the S2000 are designed to run 91-93 only, so their timing is optimized from the factory. The ECU already does a good job of playing around with timing based on the octane you've used. Likewise, cars have knock sensors that will retard timing if you had no choice but to use 89 - so it prevents engine knock. So timing on modern motors is already pretty flexible on its own. Now, higher octane fuel (100+) WILL net power with the proper timing map in your ECU tune...but the moment you decide to run 93 octane using that map, the knock sensor is immediately overwritten by the tune and your motor will begin to knock, because the ECU's new map will prevent timing adjustments.

So, a lot of older Hondas (and other cars for that matter) that were originally designed to run 87 octane and don't do much as far retard timing or advance timing automatically stand to gain quite a bit of power with timing adjustments and advancing. But modern day motors like the F20/F22, VQs, etc. don't gain much at all, because they come designed from the factory to run higher octane fuel and retard or advance timing as they see fit.

One quick example, when I had a VQ30DE-K Maxima (a 2001) I actually fiddled around with its timing. BTDC was 14-15 from factory, I increased it to 17-degrees (18 and 19 caused ping/knock), and it made a world of a difference in how the car felt in the higher rev-range. I went back and forth between different timings and felt an immediate difference with the changes. The reason for it was because that particular car was designed to run 91+, but it did not advance timing if you ran 93, it would only retard if went lower (not very well, I might add). So, with my timing advance, my Maxima could NOT be ran using 91 anymore, otherwise it'd knock (and we verified this on another car). It was 93 only.

So, in conclusion. Older cars have room for power with timing advances. Most newer cars don't.

Yep, modern mapping is done pretty well with timing, and that's why cam gears and timing changes are generally done when cams are used, and on full plug-n-play ECU kits where you're really changing things up a bit. Current cars, and cars generally from 2000~ have pretty decent mapping, especially when it comes to this regard playing with things so if you get a bad tank of fuel, or if someone puts the wrong stuff in you'll be "safe". That said, there's so many horror stories from people I read on forums from say NJ in which you can't pump your own gas, the attendant pumped the wrong stuff, and since they're running on full-tune their motor goes up.

Stock timing changes can yield some differences even today, but they're usually so small it's certainly not worth the risk, nor compromise to drive-ability. And that varies from car to car at that.

 

[SePhoBroth]

lol. Now I know this guy is a troll. Basically he's taken everything I've said about him and just repeated it back to me without proving anything or posting anything to back his argument up. I haven't lied about anything, and I've actually posted up pictures of my S2000 and used evidence to back up my position on tuning. I'll keep waiting for you to post up pics of your build, dynographs, and what size turbo etc you're running, but I certainly don't see it coming.

Also, go ahead and post it up on HT, any of the tuners on there are going to laugh at you and it's going to backfire on you just like this thread did, I guarantee it. Please do it, I'd love to see that.

Thing is even if I post anything you're gonna criticize it. I find it weird that you would want to know what turbo I'm running when you don't know how to read a compressor map. Your still in the age of "supercharger is more reliable then a turbo."

Pretty funny you agreed with J-Rezz 100% when he said

"VTEC controllers are a scary thing as well at times. People don't realize it but you can have it engage too soon and it'll then, or eventually cause engine damage. My friend swapped a B18C into his Civic DX and he read the wrong stuff on the net, and after a few weeks he ran into problems. Now, companies like Hondata research all of this. If they have piggy-backs or flashes that do this you can be sure it's more likely in the safe zone for it."

when you said lowering vtec on any real (whatever that means but I guess a b18c is a real vtec motor) vtec motor will always result in more HP. Which I said is not true. In fact some set-ups benefit from moving vtec higher.

I have to respect this site and duckroll so if you feel the need to reply, PM me. I will not be replying to your post's in this thread anymore so if you want to get the last word in.

 

[JackEtc]

Volkswagen Jetta. Gets up and goes quick with 55 mpg. Its a diesel though. But the selling price is pretty cheap for what your getting. I at least recommend a test drive.

I love my Jetta. Slap an A.W.E. Catback exhaust on it and it makes a very sporty, exotic sound. I don't have the diesel though, my 2007 2.5 gets around 28 MPG, which isn't bad for something that isn't a hybrid on a 4-cylinder (mine's an inline 5).

 

[AlphaSnake]

I love my Jetta. Slap an A.W.E. Catback exhaust on it and it makes a very sporty, exotic sound. I don't have the diesel though, my 2007 2.5 gets around 28 MPG, which isn't bad for something that isn't a hybrid on a 4-cylinder (mine's an inline 5).

My mom's 2009 Golf (refuse to call it a Rabbit) is a peppy little thing. Definitely moves well. And these inline 5s respond very well to mods.

 

[JackEtc]

My mom's 2009 Golf (refuse to call it a Rabbit) is a peppy little thing. Definitely moves well. And these inline 5s respond very well to mods.

To be fair, the Golf and Rabbit are two different cars (or used to be at least, not sure anymore). Sizewise, it goes Rabbit --> Golf --> Jetta.

But yeah, the inline 5s seem to be closer to the power of a V6 than a V4. Really good torque, great acceleration. I'd love to slap a turbocharger on it, but they are too expensive for me, and my insurance (which is high enough being a high school male) would fly up as well. The 10-15 horsepower boost the exhaust gives mine is nice enough for now. I haven't really looked at any other performance mods for it other than the turbocharger, though.

 

[AlphaSnake]

To be fair, the Golf and Rabbit are two different cars (or used to be at least, not sure anymore). Sizewise, it goes Rabbit --> Golf --> Jetta.

Err...they're the exact same car, duder. Volkswagen has changed the Golf name to Rabbit twice - once in the 80s and again 5 years ago, only to return to Golf. In many parts of the world the Rabbit was still called a Golf.

VW has said they'll likely never bring back the Rabbit name ever again.

Also, no such thing as a V4. 99% of 4-cylinder engines are inline, there was once a V4 or two eons ago, and there also exist flat-4 configurations, as well.

 

[ascii42]

Err...they're the exact same car, duder. Volkswagen has changed the Golf name to Rabbit twice - once in the 80s and again 5 years ago, only to return to Golf. In many parts of the world the Rabbit was still called a Golf.

VW has said they'll likely never bring back the Rabbit name ever again.

Also, no such thing as a V4. 99% of 4-cylinder engines are inline, there was once a V4 or two eons ago, and there also exist flat-4 configurations, as well.

Some motorcycles have V4 engines, but yeah, they haven't been used in cars in a long time. From a certain point of view, a flat-4 is just a V4 with a 180 degree angle.

 

[JackEtc]

Err...they're the exact same car, duder. Volkswagen has changed the Golf name to Rabbit twice - once in the 80s and again 5 years ago, only to return to Golf. In many parts of the world the Rabbit was still called a Golf.

VW has said they'll likely never bring back the Rabbit name ever again.

Also, no such thing as a V4. 99% of 4-cylinder engines are inline, there was once a V4 or two eons ago, and there also exist flat-4 configurations, as well.

I must have been confused, since my friends golf (early 2000) is a four door, and all the rabbits (they have the picture of the rabbit on them) I see are two doors.

And yeah I knew about the 4 cylinder thing, I was just rushing to type it.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I must have been confused, since my friends golf (early 2000) is a four door, and all the rabbits (they have the picture of the rabbit on them) I see are two doors.

And yeah I knew about the 4 cylinder thing, I was just rushing to type it.

They have 4-door Rabbits. My neighbors have one. Like I said, they're all the same car.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Got a little idea playing in my mind. Enterprise recently offered me $14.5k for my AP1 if I returned it back to bone stock. My friend is willing to sell me his 06 Laguna Blue AP2 bone stock with FlashPro for $15.5k. I'd be making a good profit on my AP1 and upgrading to an AP2 with the best tuning solution short of KPro for basically nothing. Plus Laguna Blue is my favorite S2000 color followed by white and silver.

Laguna Blue for reference:

Thoughts? I'd sell everything on my AP1 except for my 3" high flow cat, 3" HKS exhaust, KW V3's and my rims so I could put them on the AP2. I already have stock shocks and AP1 rims waiting to go on, so I'd just need to sell my hardtop and put the soft top back in.

 

[ascii42]

That certainly is a nice blue. That seems like a heck of a deal. Basically it comes down to how attached you are to your current car.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

That certainly is a nice blue. That seems like a heck of a deal. Basically it comes down to how attached you are to your current car.

It's a pretty great deal, Laguna Blue AP2's with 60k miles usually go for $18-20k. My friend that's selling me the Laguna Blue is the one that got me into the S2000 scene since he sold me my AP1, but he's moving to the East Coast and can't take the AP2 with him since it's not the kind of car you want to drive in Washington D.C.

I love my current AP1 but the AP2 is a better color, more comfortable, has some nice features, makes 15 whp more even bone stock vs AP1, has better gearing in 1st through 4th for more torque, and will handle supercharging just as well as the AP1. Plus with FlashPro, I can easily tune and datalog + safely increase the rev limit to 8600 so it'll rev only 400 RPM less than my AP1.

Plus if I transfer my mods over from my AP1, it'll be even faster/handle just as well.Lastly, if I decide I want something else, I can sell the AP2 for about $3-4k more than I paid for it.

 

[JackEtc]

They have 4-door Rabbits. My neighbors have one. Like I said, they're all the same car.

My mistake then.

Nonetheless, The Golf/Rabbit and the Jetta are really great cars.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

For anyone that needs car tools, Sears is having a huge sale today on awesome Craftsman tools and tool sets. All shipping is free or you can choose in store pick up.

I got a 255 piece Craftsman tool set with 3 drawer tool chest [$145], two 2.25 ton jack stands [$20 for both], a 3 ton low profile jack stand (must have for a car as low as mine)[$50] , and a 53 piece tool box with the most common 1/4" and 3/8" drive ratchets and sockets to keep in my car [$25, wonder if I'll even use this, haha.]

If you need tools for your cars or are missing sockets/pieces, this is your day to get everything you need.

 

[SmokyDave]

Reading that exchange between Boob & Seph was like watching Tyson holding a midget at arms length. The midget's just swinging and swinging but you know he'll never land a punch.

 

[jonnybryce]

I had a Camaro Z28 '97 as my first car in high school. It gave me some trouble a year or two in so I picked up a 2008 Sonata since I envied my brother's simple, reliable and spacious car. Now that that's out of my system I want to get a much sportier car.

Any recommends? I haven't test drove anything yet but things like the Lancer, Genesis Coupe, Mustang and upcoming Veloster have caught my eye. Preferably sort of unique, not terrible on gas. I've been reading reviews and blogs but a lot of writers and commenters find horrible things to say about every car.

 

[ascii42]

but a lot of writers and commenters find horrible things to say about every car.

Exactly. You really have to test drive the cars. What bothers other people may not bother you, and vice versa.

 

[MisterNoisy]

I had a Camaro Z28 '97 as my first car in high school. It gave me some trouble a year or two in so I picked up a 2008 Sonata since I envied my brother's simple, reliable and spacious car. Now that that's out of my system I want to get a much sportier car.

Any recommends? I haven't test drove anything yet but things like the Lancer, Genesis, Mustang and upcoming Veloster have caught my eye. Preferably sort of unique, not terrible on gas. I've been reading reviews and blogs but a lot of writers and commenters find horrible things to say about every car.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, I'd say take a look at the Genesis Coupe, particularly with the 3.8. The 2011 interior upgrades fixed my only beef with the GC, and it helps that they modified the Track model's standard equipment - opting for the Track now pretty much gets you everything - nav, automatic climate, etc.

It's pretty quick, handles nicely (though the traction control system is a bit... intrusive), is reasonably comfortable and (at least around here) isn't terribly common - one of the things that put me off the Mustang was the sheer number of them cruising around. Even though the Mustang is otherwise quite nice, I didn't want to see myself at every stoplight. The GC's styling is pretty polarizing if you ask/read around the internet, but I'm firmly in the group that loves the way the car looks.

As for mileage, I'm averaging just under 21 MPG in-town and around 28-29 on the highway - not too terrible for a 300-hp car.

 

[Viperbah]

I had a Camaro Z28 '97 as my first car in high school. It gave me some trouble a year or two in so I picked up a 2008 Sonata since I envied my brother's simple, reliable and spacious car. Now that that's out of my system I want to get a much sportier car.

Any recommends? I haven't test drove anything yet but things like the Lancer, Genesis Coupe, Mustang and upcoming Veloster have caught my eye. Preferably sort of unique, not terrible on gas. I've been reading reviews and blogs but a lot of writers and commenters find horrible things to say about every car.

For the cars you listed the 5.0 Mustang is going to give you the most performance for your money by far, the downside is that you see them everywhere. It's the car I would choose out of your list just because I like muscle and place performance ahead of a lot of other areas.

Also, you should look at a 370Z

 

[MWS Natural]

What cars would you recommend instead that are reliable, sporty, and kind of fuel efficient.

My G35 coupe is reliable and sporty but it is the opposite of fuel efficient. I wouldn't recommended it to anyone who cares about gas mileage.

 

[Enron]

My G35 coupe is reliable and sporty but it is the opposite of fuel efficient. I wouldn't recommended it to anyone who cares about gas mileage.

As is being discussed in the other car thread, the VQs pretty much jump fuel efficiency in a dark alley, stab it dozens of times with a butter knife, shit on it, and then set it on fire.

 

[reilo]

So, BMW is renaming the 1-series and 3-series coupe to the 2-series and 4-series respectively.

That probably means no more BMW M3. Say hello to the BMW M4.

I know it's just nomenclature and a name, but that's kind of sad from a historical perspective.

 

[Rengoku]

So, BMW is renaming the 1-series and 3-series coupe to the 2-series and 4-series respectively.

That probably means no more BMW M3. Say hello to the BMW M4.

I know it's just nomenclature and a name, but that's kind of sad from a historical perspective.

Well the m3 sedan version will probably still be around, only that it'll just be referred to as the m3

 

[reilo]

Well the m3 sedan version will probably still be around, only that it'll just be referred to as the m3

I can see that becoming very confusing to the consumer.

 

[MisterNoisy]

I can see that becoming very confusing to the consumer.

Only to the consumer that buys them for the badge instead of the car itself (admittedly a fair share of the public).

 

[BoobPhysics101]

So, BMW is renaming the 1-series and 3-series coupe to the 2-series and 4-series respectively.

That probably means no more BMW M3. Say hello to the BMW M4.

I know it's just nomenclature and a name, but that's kind of sad from a historical perspective.

At first glance it seems like a really, really stupid move. BMW's naming scheme is really starting to remind me of AMD/NVidia's graphics card naming schemes.

 

[JackEtc]

Quick, very stupid question for you guys.

My 2007 Jetta 2.5's gear-shift/boot/whatever looks like this:

Do I have a DSG transmission? I just found out about this Launch Control thing that you can do with a lot of VW's with DSG, but all the videos and forum posts I see on it are either in GTIs or 2.0T, GLI, or TDI Jettas, nothing about 2.5's. My gear-shift looks the same though.

I'm scared to even try that in my car if I don't have a DSG tranny, but my gear-shifter looks similar, and I can drive in both automatic and manual...I'm just not sure if there is a different type of tranny that can drive in auto and manual that isn't a DSG.

I apologize for all of the stupid questions I've asked in this thread, but it's my first car, and I really have no clue about any of this. I've learned a lot about cars, but some stuff I just don't know about.

Thanks.

 

[zerostackers]

Quick, very stupid question for you guys.

My 2007 Jetta 2.5's gear-shift/boot/whatever looks like this:

You don't have a DSG because they didn't offer it in the Jetta until 2009. What you have is an automatic with a gear selector, which is really just a way of simplifying the O/D, O/D off, 3-2-1 business you used to see in automatic gates.

 

[JackEtc]

You don't have a DSG because they didn't offer it in the Jetta until 2009. What you have is an automatic with a gear selector, which is really just a way of simplifying the O/D, O/D off, 3-2-1 business you used to see in automatic gates.

I honestly have no idea what you just said. Could you explain it in Laymen's terms? Again, I apologize for my lack of any knowledge.

EDIT: Also, are you sure they weren't introduced until 2009? The page for the '07 Jetta on Edmunds says this:

Base, 2.5 and Wolfsburg Edition models come with a 2.5-liter five-cylinder engine capable of 150 horsepower and 170 pound-feet of torque. The 2.0T and GLI feature a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder with 200 hp and 207 lb-ft of torque. A five-speed manual is standard on the base and 2.5 trims, while the 2.0T and GLI feature a six-speed manual. A traditional six-speed automatic is available on the 2.5. For the 2.0T and GLI, VW offers its slick six-speed DSG sequential-shift transmission that can be shifted manually or placed in an auto mode. All Jettas are front-wheel-drive.

 

[zerostackers]

Read the paragraph you just posted again, and remember you have a 2.5

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

I honestly have no idea what you just said. Could you explain it in Laymen's terms? Again, I apologize for my lack of any knowledge.

Basically, auto's normally come with what you have, but also 1, 2, 3, which limits gears to the corresponding number and below. This is used for additional torque in necessary situations, when the box hasn't chosen a right ratio. You have a +/- which eliminates that and gives more control. O/D is the overdrive function, that's all.

DSG is primarily defined by the dual clutch, and then the mechatronics. Yours is not the same though.

 

[akachan ningen]

I honestly have no idea what you just said. Could you explain it in Laymen's terms? Again, I apologize for my lack of any knowledge.

EDIT: Also, are you sure they weren't introduced until 2009? The page for the '07 Jetta on Edmunds says this:

you definitely have a slushbox. sorry

 

[JackEtc]

Read the paragraph you just posted again, and remember you have a 2.5

I know, but I thought that by just automatic they meant that there was no "manual" option which got me confused.

Basically, auto's normally come with what you have, but also 1, 2, 3, which limits gears to the corresponding number and below. This is used for additional torque in necessary situations, when the box hasn't chosen a right ratio. You have a +/- which eliminates that and gives more control. O/D is the overdrive function, that's all.

DSG is primarily defined by the dual clutch, and then the mechatronics. Yours is not the same though.

you definitely have a slushbox. sorry

Damn Thanks for explaining though!

 

[reilo]

Spotted a white 350z with a GTR-style custom bumper at lunch. Fail fail fail.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

The 2012 M5 looks hot. I love that shade of blue. I think my next car will be this color or something similar.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/15/first-official-2012-bmw-m5-shots-hit-the-web/

 

[ascii42]

The 2012 M5 looks hot. I love that shade of blue. I think my next car will be this color or something similar.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/15/first-official-2012-bmw-m5-shots-hit-the-web/

The blue is nice, but I really don't like what BMW has done to the front bumper.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

The blue is nice, but I really don't like what BMW has done to everything in the past six years.

The best BMW has done since the E46 is make some of their lineup look acceptable.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

The 2012 M5 looks hot. I love that shade of blue. I think my next car will be this color or something similar.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/15/first-official-2012-bmw-m5-shots-hit-the-web/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/06/m5-1.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

I agree that it looks hot from the front but have you seen the side profile?

Just looks so awkward, its like they don't know how to take the Chris Bangle 5-series into the future.
[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/06/p90078399highres.jpg