I was so confused when I saw that in my game but I wasn't going to complain.
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The Banner Saga |OT| Here come the vikings!
- Thread starter Corto
- Start date
I was so confused when I saw that in my game but I wasn't going to complain.
I find the battle parts of this game interesting, but not really enjoyable and I'd just as soon avoid them if I didn't need to build characters up for compulsory battles.
The armor and strength dimensions, along with the alternating turn orders until pillage really change how one would usually play an srpg battle. It's a totally different beast where I want to neuter foes and keep them on the field to lessen the frequency of strong enemies' turns. I always seem to finish fights with one person KO'ed so maybe I'm still getting the hang of things.
The art, music, and caravan story stuff with the choices is all amazing, though and I like how I never really know if I made a good call or not when it comes to the random friction that arises in the caravan.
So if I'm reading correctly, I should never waste my renown on supplies, huh?
The armor and strength dimensions, along with the alternating turn orders until pillage really change how one would usually play an srpg battle. It's a totally different beast where I want to neuter foes and keep them on the field to lessen the frequency of strong enemies' turns. I always seem to finish fights with one person KO'ed so maybe I'm still getting the hang of things.
The art, music, and caravan story stuff with the choices is all amazing, though and I like how I never really know if I made a good call or not when it comes to the random friction that arises in the caravan.
So if I'm reading correctly, I should never waste my renown on supplies, huh?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Just finished it at around 11 hours played. Two of which were spent on that final encounter, which, frankly, was kind of bullshit. I eventually dropped the difficulty down to easy for the second phase and just steamrolled it. Considering how challenging but fair the rest of the game felt, that last fight was just pure frustration. I imagine if you had the perfect set up, it wouldn't be that insane, but I obviously didn't. I tried plenty of strategies and none of them could hold up to the onslaught of the second phase.
I really enjoyed the game, but that last battle did kind of sour me on the overall experience. The abrupt ending definitely left me feeling a bit unsatisfied as well. It feels like the game could have been a whole lot more rewarding if it was around twice the length or more and some of the features (like the leveling of characters and the army battles) were fleshed out just a bit more.
Oh, well. Still a very impressive first game from this studio. I look forward to seeing more form them in the future.
I really enjoyed the game, but that last battle did kind of sour me on the overall experience. The abrupt ending definitely left me feeling a bit unsatisfied as well. It feels like the game could have been a whole lot more rewarding if it was around twice the length or more and some of the features (like the leveling of characters and the army battles) were fleshed out just a bit more.
Oh, well. Still a very impressive first game from this studio. I look forward to seeing more form them in the future.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I'm just dropping by to say that I played again today and owned that motherfucker of Bellower with my archers. Oddleif got him with two shots, 13, and then 9 of damage.
edit: shit, I should have watched Chronoja's video.
edit: lol I lost Yrsa halfway through the game. I still believe she took the first chance she had to bail out, when we set the forest on fire.
edit: shit, I should have watched Chronoja's video.
edit: lol I lost Yrsa halfway through the game. I still believe she took the first chance she had to bail out, when we set the forest on fire.
Stronghammer22
Member
There was an update that added subs. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=98065526&postcount=447
Basileus777
Member
I finished the game earlier today, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. The combat didn't get stale for me, mostly because I think the game was well paced and an appropriate length that didn't overstay its welcome. Though it could have definitely used more variety in map design and mission objective types. And the final boss wasn't particularly well designed.
The caravan aspect of the game actually held up less than the combat. It became apparent pretty quickly that the decisions made there don't matter all that much, and anything not involving characters leaving/dying was just flavor.
I liked the dialogue choices, some of the results were random and unpredictable, but it added tension to the game, and it made me carefully consider my actions. The game makes it quite clear that you can't have everything go your way, and once you view the choices in terms of tradeoffs and risks, they mostly make sense.
The incredible importance of renown did undermine the decision making aspect of the game though. There is little reason not to fight at every opportunity because renown is so important and there is no permadeath or real permanent risk in battle.
The lack of manual saves isn't too much of an issue here because it autosaves pretty regularly, it's not like with Shadowrun where I had to keep playing because the game had no way to suspend, here you aren't going to lose much progress unless you quit in battle.
I'm looking forward to a sequel, whenever it may come. I'll probably play through the game again at some point too.
The caravan aspect of the game actually held up less than the combat. It became apparent pretty quickly that the decisions made there don't matter all that much, and anything not involving characters leaving/dying was just flavor.
I liked the dialogue choices, some of the results were random and unpredictable, but it added tension to the game, and it made me carefully consider my actions. The game makes it quite clear that you can't have everything go your way, and once you view the choices in terms of tradeoffs and risks, they mostly make sense.
The incredible importance of renown did undermine the decision making aspect of the game though. There is little reason not to fight at every opportunity because renown is so important and there is no permadeath or real permanent risk in battle.
The lack of manual saves isn't too much of an issue here because it autosaves pretty regularly, it's not like with Shadowrun where I had to keep playing because the game had no way to suspend, here you aren't going to lose much progress unless you quit in battle.
I'm looking forward to a sequel, whenever it may come. I'll probably play through the game again at some point too.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah... is there ever any real penalty to the caravan stuff besides having low morale and suffering -2 willpower during battle?
Ok, two things about this patch:
The silver arrow glitch isn't that big of a deal, but it's still annoying when I get to the point in the boss fight where I need to fire the silver arrow, but the game won't let me do it. This is not the same problem as having zero willpower and not being able to use the silver arrow. The glitch I'm referring to displays the wrong special ability icon (this time it gave me the Arc Lightning icon), it has a cross sign over the icon, and it prevents you from using the ability. Luckily, this problem can be fixed by reloading the most recent save, but it's still annoying.
1. It did not fix the Challenge achievement. Unless the achievement also requires you to be on Normal/Hard and not reload a save ever, I should have gotten this thing four times over by now.
2. It also did not fix the Silver Arrow glitch.
2. It also did not fix the Silver Arrow glitch.
The silver arrow glitch isn't that big of a deal, but it's still annoying when I get to the point in the boss fight where I need to fire the silver arrow, but the game won't let me do it. This is not the same problem as having zero willpower and not being able to use the silver arrow. The glitch I'm referring to displays the wrong special ability icon (this time it gave me the Arc Lightning icon), it has a cross sign over the icon, and it prevents you from using the ability. Luckily, this problem can be fixed by reloading the most recent save, but it's still annoying.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It really is. It forces you to have some kind of crowd control method that the game never demanded or even really encouraged up until that point. Either that or you just get lucky and Bellower shouts on his turns.
One change I hope they make for the sequel is how the exp system works. I don't mind renown being a limited resource, but the requirement to have X number of kills to level up is frustrating when you want to start using a new character. Maybe make it so the requirement is number of actions performed in battle rather than number of kills. Requiring kills forces you to kind of "grind" in a way and play in a very unnatural way until you get your character up to the sufficient number of kills.
Another article on Austin's hauntingly beautiful musical score:
In The Bleak Midwinter: How Composer Austin Wintory Brought Stoic Beauty to The Banner Saga
In The Bleak Midwinter: How Composer Austin Wintory Brought Stoic Beauty to The Banner Saga
Just quoting this part because I find it a bit contradictory, the fact that some of the results were random and unpredictable sort of precludes being able to think carefully about them because you simply don't know what to think about. When the results of a choice are intentionally obscured you're essentially just playing a guessing game as to what the developers had in mind to the better possible outcomes. It's true that it shows you on the first playthrough that you can't get everything your own way, as in, if you try to play a good guy or bad guy specifically and make choices appropriate to that, at times it will result in a bad outcome.
The problem is there's no real weight to the choices either outside of the few bad choices that result in a character loss, but for example, killing a random group of people one moment and saving a child the next have no influence on each other.
What I rather would have seen than the flavor text with hidden is choices with directly shown information on them, for example
"you encounter a group of brigands who look very suspicious, they ask you to stop your caravan immediately"
1: 100% chance - Attack the brigands (initiates fight, losing the fight incurs failure)
2: 75% chance - Intimidate the brigands (avoid fight, no loss, +25% chance because stories of you killing other thugs along your way has reached their ears)
3: 50% chance - send others to attack (variable caravan losses depending on the number of fighters, +% chance for any varls in your caravan)
4: 25% chance - flee, leaving behind some supplies (some % of supplies / renown lost, +% chance the smaller your caravan is)
lose the encounter, a penalty, you have to choose a character to die.
The "guaranteed" option of success demands the most of the player, the other options have a chance to fail and sacrifice other resources.
I'm not saying "this is how it should be", just that this is an example of a system that not only gives the player more information and therefore actual choice but also keeps the random elements there. Providing chance modifiers based on previous actions makes every choice matter in the long term.
Just for contrast, the current implementation of the same choice if it was in the game looks like this
1: Attack brigands -
here's some renown
nothing, they attack anyways, plus someone dies, probably the character you used the most
you lose supplies and probably a few useless varls
nothing, they catch up and attack anyways, oh and by the way, you're a coward for running away.
so when the results could be anything, what does it really matter what you choose? it only serves to show the player that punishment can come in any form, when I'd say the real message you want to send players is "look, no matter what choice you make here it's going to cost something....and it won't be pretty any way you slice it, make the choice".
Anyways, sorry for largish post, but I'd be interested to know if others prefer the current choice system or have envisioned a better way for it to exist?
Allnamestakenlol
Member
Good God am I enjoying this game. Bought it last night after sitting on the fence for a bit and, although I figured it would be good, it's quite a bit better than I was expecting. The art style, music, and narrative have completely sucked me into this world. Definitely has things I'd change if I could, but all in all this game is great! 
Basileus777
Member
Don't kill his minions, just weaken them and leave them alive. That way the boss won't get more turns.
To be clear, that was what I was specifically referencing there. I played things carefully because I didn't want to lose characters, and I think that aspect worked well. The caravan part didn't hold up very long as the consequences for that weren't important.
I wouldn't want to see an actual percentage listed, the uncertainty was what I enjoyed about the choices. I'd just design the caravan aspect so that it was more consequential and thus the choices about it more meaningful.
I don't mind this as the game already naturally encourages you to leave severely wounded enemies alive so that they take up turns from more powerful foes. I generally send characters I want to level up after weaker fare later in the battle, and it seems to work pretty smoothly.
Basileus777
Member
And you get some opportunities to fight weaker enemies. Even later on you can fight bandits and such when they are really weak compared to your units.
I'd never really looked at this game too much but the king.com controversy brought it to my attention and it looked awesome so I bought it and just finished the credits. Wow. While I do wish it'd been a compete game from the get go I now know my most anticipated release coming up. I absolutely loved the lore, the story, the art, the music and the gameplay. It took me a number of hours before I understood it really but when it clicked it instantly became one of my favorite battle systems of all time.
As I said I'd kind of ignored the title so the Oregon Trail element was an awesome surprise and has me amped for starting a hard playthrough next. I played a kind leader the first time through but plan to dramatically change that next time.
I did take a peek at some advice here at one point and stopped caring for my caravan so I might try a third playthrough of keeping my supplies up, especially since damn near my entire party was level 5 in the end.
Last fight took me three tries, glad it wasn't the pain in the ass for me that it was for others because I need some sleep now @.@
As I said I'd kind of ignored the title so the Oregon Trail element was an awesome surprise and has me amped for starting a hard playthrough next. I played a kind leader the first time through but plan to dramatically change that next time.
I did take a peek at some advice here at one point and stopped caring for my caravan so I might try a third playthrough of keeping my supplies up, especially since damn near my entire party was level 5 in the end.
Last fight took me three tries, glad it wasn't the pain in the ass for me that it was for others because I need some sleep now @.@
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
There any walkthroughs for this out there? They might come in handy to me.
Chance Hale
Member
Spoilers for chapter 6:
How much longer do I have to go before I finish the game?
The mutiny is horribly out of place and really, really stupid. Why would Olef who hasn't talked for hours suddenly turn against me? How is he able to slaughter my level 5 Egil when he's 1? Why does he hate strangers so much? Everything up until this point seemed somewhat fair in terms of deaths but this was just poorly done and absurd.
Not long, you're almost finished. And I agree, chapter 6 overall seemed rushed for so many different reasons and the damned abrupt ending left a sour taste of what had been a pretty amazing experience. Still a fantastic game and I hope the sequel addresses some of the issues Saga had.
End game spoiler:
First off, thanks to Hawkie again for the game. I loved it.
I feel like they need should work a bit more on the battles. Include more classes that are different from the current ones. Need more special abilities. I'd also like to see even weapon choices instead of just being able to equip one or two different items. Btw, where are the Varl women?
Did Alette die at the end of everyone's game? Not sure if the game has different endings or if the next game will continue with the same save. Bums me out that she died. She was actually one of the better non-Varl characters.
First off, thanks to Hawkie again for the game. I loved it.
I feel like they need should work a bit more on the battles. Include more classes that are different from the current ones. Need more special abilities. I'd also like to see even weapon choices instead of just being able to equip one or two different items. Btw, where are the Varl women?
BlitzEngineer
Member
I'm also curious regarding your spoiler.
I mean, if I didn't give her the silver arrow, would I still had to have taken her? Given the nature and unique art for the final scene I kind of doubt she can live, but if she's not at the battle her death wouldn't make sense.
I agree with others that the ending was abrupt but it didn't really bother me for some reason. The final scroll took alot of the edge off I think, the art there is some of the most beautiful in the game.
As for chapter 6:
This was the chapter that kind of gave me the same feeling The Walking Dead did at points. It's so completely unfair and out of nowhere. To me that's effective but I can see why some people disliked it.
Finally, for the people asking about Varl women, it's said pretty explicitly that they were all created directly by one of the dead gods. This is why (mid game spoiler)
The fall of their city is such a huge deal. No more Varl will ever exist because the god who made them is dead. Every one of the thousands that die at the city are the last survivors of the race.
Chance Hale
Member
Ending spoiler
Rook dies if you deny Alette's request to let her use the arrow. Tempted to play again to avoid Alette's death but it really hits in a way that the other ending doesn't.
I wonder if it's possible to avoid that fate with some the right items or something, or has someone already done it and I'm not aware?
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to win that battle. Even if you did manage to get what should be a killing blow on Bellower, the game will keep his health at ~5 and have a "Protected" notification display above his head, like it does in phase 1 of the final battle when you do "too much" damage to him. Iver losing his arm is part of the story, and thus cannot be avoided.
Ah right. I actually didn't know about that notification, I never bothered lower his health that far. Good to know, at least it's consistent with his immortality and all. I'm pretty sure it's mathematically impossible too
It's a more controlled, cinematic experience with light levelling and a focus on text based decision making/ narrative. And it achieves it's goals well and so it comes recommended.
I suppose imagine it as a glorified storybook.
Well... My first play through took me 16 hours, for one. The Oregon Trail element of the game means there's a nice little variety of choice in the game that will probably justify future play throughs as well.
As far as grinding out your team that isn't the point at all. This isn't Disgaea (thank god). There's only 5 levels to a characters growth, and a smidgen of equippable items to customize the characters. The srpg element is much more focused on the tactics you are going to use in each battle rather than a ridiculously huge ability/class/item/level selection.
I'd recommend just watching a video and reading about the battle system if you love the genre so much, it might surprise you as it did me.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The combat is actually quite good and has some new stuff that I've never seen in SRPGs. It's definitely worth playing, especially if you're a fan of the genre.
Then again, are you a fan of the genre because you are crazy about stats and grinding like in a Disgaea game, or do you like the genre because of the grid based combat and tactical decisions?
Chapter 6 Spoilers:
I'm on Chapter 7 and
has returned; I now have over 60 Renown but I'm cautious how to spend it for the approaching boss battle. There's a lot of characters available at the moment, will these all be selectable?
Olef that bastard! We had a quiet little heart to heart and, I presume, he took badly to the answers I gave. Now I've lost Egil, who was a core team member, and almost lost Oddleif. I know now why it's an achievement to keep Egil alive
I'm on Chapter 7 and
Juno
Hari Seldon
Member
I thought the game was simply OK. This is maybe a 7/10 type of game for me. The combat gets stale, it didn't seem like any of the special abilities were useful. The decisions seem like you are just picking a RNG response. I would have liked this game a lot more if it wasn't so obviously designed with a future tablet or mobile version in mind. The art and music were top notch though. I would not recommend this game at $25. Wait for a large steam sale in my opinion.
Yep. Won't finish the game. Arrived with my troops debuffed due to low moral and the second Bellower stage is just too much for my current roster and items selection. Maybe I screwed up some stats levelling also. Had one try that I had him almost at the brink but his regen screwed me. Immediately deleted the game hehehe. Don't want to spend more time trying this as I know that if I had the game installed I would keep trying obsessively to kill him. Good game until this point though, my pledge was well deserved. Now to Broken Age.
edit: Just to say that the decisions also felt to me like they had no real weight behind them. I had to restart a portion of the mid-game and tried some different options and still had the same outcome. I understand that having expanding branching narratives would be a crazy undertake but having experienced that broke the spell for me a bit. Also the renown being such a valuable and at the same time scarce resource to buy supplies, items, AND levelling your characters is not very smart. The player doesn't have any idea what's more critical to spend the renown in during the game which can lead to a broken final boss fight. And finally those final tough fights before the last are great to farm a bit of renown if needed but the player has to be careful so to not let a critical character to fall in battle and go to the final battle with less strength.
edit: Just to say that the decisions also felt to me like they had no real weight behind them. I had to restart a portion of the mid-game and tried some different options and still had the same outcome. I understand that having expanding branching narratives would be a crazy undertake but having experienced that broke the spell for me a bit. Also the renown being such a valuable and at the same time scarce resource to buy supplies, items, AND levelling your characters is not very smart. The player doesn't have any idea what's more critical to spend the renown in during the game which can lead to a broken final boss fight. And finally those final tough fights before the last are great to farm a bit of renown if needed but the player has to be careful so to not let a critical character to fall in battle and go to the final battle with less strength.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I just dropped it down to easy for the second phase and stomped the encounter. It pissed me off, but at least I saw the ending (which was terribly abrupt and unfulfilling).
You are right about decisions, too. They mainly just affect which characters live or die, but some of these characters can be quite major, so it's kind of cool how they implemented it. I'm actually playing the game over again because I liked the combat and general atmosphere so much, and am enjoying the slight changes that come from making different choices.
Really looking forward to seeing what these guys can do for a fleshed out sequel.
I did just that on my work laptop! I was at work thinking of the damn game and how I needed to see how it ended. I couldn't let it finish like this... Swallowed my pride and dropped the difficulty to easy and went through that last fight like a breeze.
I really think that last fight on normal could have been better balanced just with a few little tweaks. Maybe dropping the health regen ability of Bellower could be it? It would work for me at least...
Tokubetsu
Member
Having some problems really early in the game:
1) Performance. The game seems to run at like half speed when in full screen mode? If I uncheck it it's fine, game is fast and smooth. Is this a common thing? (GTX 460, 3ghz quad core, 8 gigs of ram)
2) An early fight at Skogr
1) Performance. The game seems to run at like half speed when in full screen mode? If I uncheck it it's fine, game is fast and smooth. Is this a common thing? (GTX 460, 3ghz quad core, 8 gigs of ram)
2) An early fight at Skogr
It's the very first fight there against the dredge and one of the bigger dredge. For the life of me I cannot finish this fight without at least one person dying. Particularly the big Varl with battering ram. I have replayed it at least six times trying to get out being penalized with the -3 str in the next fight. I take Egil and Alette with me every time.
Basileus777
Member
It happens automatically at levels 3 and 5.
I beat the final encounter in my first attempt, but I only had one person standing at the very end.
And who was it?
Hakon, of course, delivering the killing blow.
![url]](http://[url]http://i4.minus.com/iEHAHb2DHuP8a.png[/url])
My man.
My MVP is Oddleif. The Widow Maker
The try that I got Bellower almost to his knees I abused her Sky Strike ability to keep him away from the rest of the team, but run out of willpower before I had the chance to finish him... But had I just one more willpower and she would have taken care of the business.
The specific character abilities upgrade automatically at levels 3 and 5 like Basileus777 posted. But I had to use this as an example that the UI needed some polish also. Some times in battle it was a bit crowded and hard to select the right enemy to attack. A rotate camera option would be a godsend too. I am posting all these negatives not because I hated the game, but I liked it enough to care that these will be fixed for the next episodes.
My MVP is Oddleif. The Widow Maker
The try that I got Bellower almost to his knees I abused her Sky Strike abbility to keep him away from the rest of the team, but run out of willpower before I had the chance to finish him... But had I just one more willpower and she would have taken care of the business.
LOL i used her like twice.
Curious to see how people are using different strategies.
For me, it was ALL about Rook.