Support NeoGAF

[CornBurrito]

It's a good site, but that's exactly how I used to get JLPT lists. Just rows of kanji. You know what you do now? Go one by one, looking each up in whatever resource you have, and then:

1. Write them 1000x. Stroke order.. I don't know how much Japanese writing you intend to do in real life.. but if you learn the stroke order for all of those you will never have to look up the stroke order of any kanji again. You will know basic radicals and order to decipher (almost) anything.

2. Say them 1000x. Readings? You will get on/kun/whofuckinknows reading. You'll get example words and you'll memorize those in your writing practice while saying them out loud.

3. Quiz yourself 1000x. Using just the list, flash cards, random example sentences, whatever your method is.

Sometimes you'll get example words with kanji you don't know along side. You will then look that up. And do the same three steps. For every new kanji. You will inevitably learn just as many kanji not on the list as there are on the list.

And you will love it.

Do that everyday for a few hours for a few months and that's it. You've condensed years of living as a Japanese person into less than half a year.

What I recommended was amazonJP, not US. They have a decent kindle section I buy from often, though not everything has a kindle version. Kids books I'm not sure but there seem to be some. Though if you can find people selling them on US, go for it.

Maybe I can read Shin Sekai Yori in Japanese.

 

[I'm an expert]

Honest question, is your goal to get through it, or to actually learn from it?

 

[CornBurrito]

Honest question, is your goal to get through it, or to actually learn from it?

Through the book? Or Japanese class?

I mean I intend to learn from it. I'm not sure I understand your question. I've heard it is a good speculative fiction novel, and I've watched an animated adaption of it. Interesting plot, and since I somewhat know the plot I might have an easier time understanding it. It is definitely something I -want- to read. And you recommended reading something I'd likely enjoy.

Though it isn't on Kindle so...

 

[I'm an expert]

I was asking if you planned to dissect the book at every point you don't understand, or did you want to just make sure you "understand" it as you get through it. I definitely recommend reading something you enjoy, but I feel like having the right intention will help your study more.

 

[CornBurrito]

I was asking if you planned to dissect the book at every point you don't understand, or did you want to just make sure you "understand" it as you get through it. I definitely recommend reading something you enjoy, but I feel like having the right intention will help your study more.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your meaning. I'd plan to look up any line or word I didn't understand, if that's what you mean.

 

[I'm an expert]

But you'd look it up and then what? Look it up for the meaning and go on? Or look it up and make a note of that word/phrase/grammar/whatever and then drill it? Use it on your own? Find other instances of how it's used?

I'm saying you could pick up any book now, or manga, whatever and just hit with a dictionary and get through it. But did you learn anything?

 

[CornBurrito]

But you'd look it up and then what? Look it up for the meaning and go on? Or look it up and make a note of that word/phrase/grammar/whatever and then drill it? Use it on your own? Find other instances of how it's used?

I'm saying you could pick up any book now, or manga, whatever and just hit with a dictionary and get through it. But did you learn anything?

Ok now I see what you mean. Yeah I guess I wasn't planning on doing that.

I'd say I'd learn at least something just getting through it, even if not much.

 

[I'm an expert]

And I'm not picking on you, but I guarantee people read this thread with the exact same thought in their head.


It just seems like such a waste of time.


Do it to learn. Do it so the next time you read a book it doesn't take you as long. And so the time after that it's even quicker.. and the time after that..

This is, of course, with the assumption that people want to actually learn the language. Sometimes people say "well, I just want to get good enough so I can get through my favorite *insert media here* WITHOUT having to pause and look a bunch of shit up" ..but do you know how much work it takes to get there? I think some people just say eff it and stick with the look everything up method.

 

[CornBurrito]

And I'm not picking on you, but I guarantee people read this thread with the exact same thought in their head.


It just seems like such a waste of time.


Do it to learn. Do it so the next time you read a book it doesn't take you as long. And so the time after that it's even quicker.. and the time after that..

This is, of course, with the assumption that people want to actually learn the language. Sometimes people say "well, I just want to get good enough so I can get through my favorite *insert media here* WITHOUT having to pause and look a bunch of shit up" ..but do you know how much work it takes to get there? I think some people just say eff it and stick with the look everything up method.

Oh I'm actually interested in learning. I'm not the sort of person who is doing it so I can "watch anime without subs" or whatever. Though a language is so much different than anything I've had to learn. I'm not going to lie, putting the level of effort you described into reading a single novel is something I've never done.

 

[I'm an expert]

Well, I purposely didn't say anything when you said something like "that's how I did it with English."

Yo.

This ain't English. Especially when it comes to reading/writing.

But you have to think of it like this - a little bit of time and effort for A LOT OF ENJOYMENT AND BENEFITS. It's practically like a diet. Put in the work and the rewards are much, much longer. I can thank my entire career and everything that happened as a result to basically one year in my late teens.

 

[KtSlime]

No one is completely proficient in any language. Being able to look up words or be able to interpret the meaning of the word from the 文脈 is fine, IMO. I also don't think it is something one ends, I've been learning English for 31 years, learn a new word at least a couple times a week and will continue doing so until I die.

If people really mean they want to gain proficiency to that point and not learn any other words after that then I would agree with you guys, but I don't think that's what people mean, they are probably just trying to set attainable and communicable goals for themselves.

 

[CornBurrito]

No one is completely proficient in any language. Being able to look up words or be able to interpret the meaning of the word from the 文脈 is fine, IMO. I also don't think it is something one ends, I've been learning English for 31 years, learn a new word at least a couple times a week and will continue doing so until I die.

If people really mean they want to gain proficiency to that point and not learn any other words after that then I would agree with you guys, but I don't think that's what people mean, they are probably just trying to set attainable and communicable goals for themselves.

Honestly I'll be completely satisfied if I get to the point where I could read political or philosophical texts in Japanese. Granted, even reading a philosophical text in English can be maddening so perhaps I shouldn't set the bar so high.

Also, I admire your talent/dedication I'm an expert. I am focused on biology currently (and soon will need to focus on the GRE and grad school programs) so I can't quite put as much time into Japanese as I'd like. I do find the language enjoyable though so I think I can put the time and effort into it, just at a slower pace than you. Part of me wanting to find solid internet forums (I'd love a Japanese NeoGAF OT equivalent) is so that I can at least communicate in Japanese even after I leave college, even if only in text.

 

[I'm an expert]

I don't expect many to do what I did, I had decided the language would be a path to money which is why I cared about it. It just made sense to hit it hard. I don't expect people to become fluent, I'm just like..as adults why bother with something like language if all you get out of it is counting to 10 and saying my name is (random example not directed at anyone). It's worth it to get more out of it, especially if money is being spent on it too.

 

[KtSlime]

My post is not intended to be an endorsement of a lazy path. There are many ridiculous things I do to practice my Japanese. I say the date out loud in the morning, I practice multiplication tables, I read aloud, I review and constantly add flash cards, read history books in Japanese, study geography of Japan, etc. I also don't look up every word I don't know, a lot of times (especially with kanji) I can get it from the sentence. I'm sure there are people who just do a year or two of the language to get their basic requirements out of the way for graduation, but I think the person who wants to get proficient enough to read X, or watch X and nothing more is a bit of a strawman. I imagine once a person gets that heavily invested in a language/culture they generally continue.

CornBurrito: Check out a book called "How to sound intelligent in Japanese", has a bunch of useful words/morphemes on politics and philosophy.

 

[CornBurrito]

CornBurrito: Check out a book called "How to sound intelligent in Japanese", has a bunch of useful words/morphemes on politics and philosophy.

Hah that sounds like an awesome/useful book. And it is Amazon primeable!

Tangent: Can Japanese sort of do the same thing that I did with English above? Adding "able" to nouns to make them into verbs. Or adding "y" to nouns to make them into adjectives? Those are some of my favorite things about English.

 

[KtSlime]

Hah that sounds like an awesome/useful book. And it is Amazon primeable!

Tangent: Can Japanese sort of do the same thing that I did with English above? Adding "able" to nouns to make them into verbs. Or adding "y" to nouns to make them into adjectives? Those are some of my favorite things about English.

More than you know, Japanese is a highly agglutinative language, at times it is hard to tell when one word starts and ends. Love that about the language.

 

[CornBurrito]

Obviously, google translate is not the best place to get translations and usages for Japanese phrases. I'm an expert: What resources did you use to look up phrases and such?

I just remembered having ぼのぼの in my drawer and so I pulled it out and started cracking. I stumbled across 技の一種. Google translates this as "a kind of trick" but if I parse out the words 技の(the の is a particle I assume) and 一種, it translates it as "a kind of technique." So is 技の一種 used in the context of just tricks? Or can it mean technique, without any connotations that the word "trick" in English would have?

 

[I'm an expert]

I had two tools back in the day, Jim Breen and the Intermediate Dictionary of Japanese Grammar. The rest was all jlpt supplementals. Actual content came from everywhere - internet, tv, magazines, local J-community, etc.

Also now I'm super confused.. did you just start studying? You don't know の? I think I've had you confused with another poster here the entire time..kinda making our previous convo make more sense.. I think.

 

[KtSlime]

It really depends on the context of the story how I would translate that. 技 can be technique, trick, skill, job and a whole bunch of other things (Some sort of thing you do with your body/hands/mind that can be mastered or something is the greater idea behind わ&#12374. Eventually you get a feel for the language and can kind of pick the optimum meaning/translation.

の in this case shows possession, so 'of' would likely be the best translation for it, but sometimes it is a generic noun that can represent a もの or こと.

Breen is good, if you are looking for a book, I am partial to Yoko McClain's Handbook of Modern Japanese Grammar.

 

[CornBurrito]

I had two tools back in the day, Jim Breen and the Intermediate Dictionary of Japanese Grammar. The rest was all jlpt supplementals. Actual content came from everywhere - internet, tv, magazines, local J-community, etc.

Also now I'm super confused.. did you just start studying? You don't know の? I think I've had you confused with another poster here the entire time..kinda making our previous convo make more sense.. I think.

I do know about の. I was fairly certain it was being used as a particle, but I mean there are Japanese words with の in them so it isn't -always- a particle.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I just started taking a japanese online class, and this is the first assignment:


A:
Translate
ファイナルファンタジーはにほんのゲームです。
アクションのゲームです。
しかし、おにむしゃもいくさひめもアクションゲームです。
じゃ、 ファイナルファンタジーはいちばんです。

B:
Translate:
アクションゲームです。
あっ、アクションゲームですか。
ええ、そうです。
アクションゲームはどれですか。
アクションゲームはこれです。
それですね。
ええ、そうです。
それはアクションゲームですね。
ええ、これはアクションゲームですよ。
あれもアクションゲームですか。
いいえ、あれはアクションゲームじゃないです。
あれはなんですか。
あれはシミュレーションゲームです。
そうですか。じゃ、そのアクションゲームをください。
ありがとうございます。
どうも。
_______


How on earth am I going to translate these? I have a dictionary with me, but I don't know where to start.. no more help.

In the cliff notes the teacher just writes "better learn Hiragana and Katakana fast". Is this really a beginner course?


I could spend days looking for the right symbol without finding it

 

[KtSlime]

The cliff notes are right, better learn them fast. There's only 96 (or is it 97?) characters to learn in all between the kana.

This is mostly English derived words, so once you learn how to read the kana these sentences should be really easy to understand.

頑張れ! (ganbare, good luck)

 

[Desmond]

Holy hell, having no Kanji actually makes that a nuisance to read/distinguish words.


I have a translation exam tomorrow. I've looked over stuff from previous homework translations etc, but I'm still a tad worried. Gotta be time efficient with the Kanji dictionary tomorrow.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

The cliff notes are right, better learn them fast. There's only 96 (or is it 97?) characters to learn in all between the kana.

This is mostly English derived words, so once you learn how to read the kana these sentences should be really easy to understand.

頑張れ! (ganbare, good luck)

Thanks mate!

 

[Zoe]

In the cliff notes the teacher just writes "better learn Hiragana and Katakana fast". Is this really a beginner course?

In university classes you're expected to be able to read and write them by the end of the first week.

 

[PKrockin]

The sooner you get kana down the better. You don't ever want to be using romaji.

Use some mnemonics and beat those kana fuckers into your brain with flash cards until you're unconscious!

Random aside, I logged into Memrise and as the page loaded I thought "I should only have about 40 cards due today." And, yep, 40 cards due. Damn I'm good.

 

[neoemonk]

I took a year of Japanese in college long ago, and really enjoyed it. About two years ago I picked up Remembering the Kanji and stuck with it for a while, learning maybe 200 characters until unfortunately I stopped. From time to time I'll see some kana and feel bad because I think of how far I'd be now if I had stuck with it. I'm going to pick up again starting tonight. Anyone else start and stop a few times before they really got going on learning?

 

[hwalker84]

Anyone in Pittsburgh who is currently learning Japanese or knows or any classroom resources? I'm thinking of picking back up my studies after visiting Japan last November.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

You guys are the best. I LOVE YOU.



I love you all so much. your like my gamer children!!!

 

[CornBurrito]

"おにむしゃもいくさひめもアクションゲームです。"

What... The bolded

 

[Zoe]

"おにむしゃもいくさひめもアクションゲームです。"

What... The bolded

Onimusha and Ikusahime.

News to me that FF is an action game :lol

 

[CornBurrito]

Onimusha and Ikusahime.

I've never heard of those games. Or is it one game (like Jak and Daxter)?

 

[Zoe]

I've never heard of those games. Or is it one game (like Jak and Daxter)?

Really? Arcadias no Ikusahime is a new game only in Japan, but Onimusha was pretty big.

 

[CornBurrito]

Really? Arcadias no Ikusahime is a new game only in Japan, but Onimusha was pretty big.

Yeah I never heard of it. Looks like Tekken to me.

Anyway I'm struggling a bit with combining sentences to express the purpose for movement.

Ie: 図書館に行って、本を借ります　－＞　図書館に本を借りに行きます。

I have to combine:

家に帰って，晩御飯を食べます。

is: 家に晩御飯を食べに帰ります。correct?

 

[Kilrogg]

So, this is kinda urgent, but does anyone know any proper business phrases for e-mails? Say, you're spontaneously contacting someone to make an offer and possibly negotiate a deal: what would you write as an introductory line? What about the end of the e-mail?

 

[I'm an expert]

Sorry, probably too late. No idea what you want without a bit more info. Like you've never contacted this person before? Anyway, here's a site even my colleagues used to use lol:

http://email.chottu.net/index.html

 

[CornBurrito]

Would it be culturally insensitive to have fun on my homework by writing "たけしさんは日本にやくざになりに帰りました。"?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So, this is kinda urgent, but does anyone know any proper business phrases for e-mails? Say, you're spontaneously contacting someone to make an offer and possibly negotiate a deal: what would you write as an introductory line? What about the end of the e-mail?

Without knowing the context, one of these might be good to keep it simple:

○○　○○　様

はじめまして。
○○の○○と申します。
突然のご連絡、失礼いたします。

さて、・・・

○○　○○　様

お世話になります。
○○の○○と申します。
突然のご連絡、失礼いたします。

さて、・・・

Would it be culturally insensitive to have fun on my homework by writing "たけしさんは日本にやくざになりに帰りました。"?

I would say you should not do that. I don't imagine many teachers would find it funny. You'd also be sounding like the stereotypical westerner who automatically goes right to ninja, samurai, yakuza, sushi, sumo when he hears "Japan."

 

[CornBurrito]

I would say you should not do that. I don't imagine many teachers would find it funny. You'd also be sounding like the stereotypical westerner who automatically goes right to ninja, samurai, yakuza, sushi, sumo when he hears "Japan."

My homework has been pretty tame honestly. Never once referenced samurai, ninja, yakuza, or the rest. And the teacher I think likes me as a student since I've had her for a semester. But I'll err on the side of caution. Meh, boring homework it is. Changed to: たけしさんは日本に先生になりに帰りました。

 

[Kilrogg]

Sorry, probably too late. No idea what you want without a bit more info. Like you've never contacted this person before? Anyway, here's a site even my colleagues used to use lol:

http://email.chottu.net/index.html

Without knowing the context, one of these might be good to keep it simple:

Thanks guy, appreciate it. In the end I kinda winged it based on what I wanted to say and what resources I could find on the subject.

 

[CornBurrito]

How do I get Japanese language Kindle books on my Kindle

Amazon jp is not the same as Amazon.com apparently, so I can't get it to recognize my Kindle.

 

[Boogiepop]

My homework has been pretty tame honestly. Never once referenced samurai, ninja, yakuza, or the rest. And the teacher I think likes me as a student since I've had her for a semester. But I'll err on the side of caution. Meh, boring homework it is. Changed to: たけしさんは日本に先生になりに帰りました。

I tried to make my homework fun when I was taking classes. It was a tossup as to whether that worked in my favor or not, haha. I recall using 暗殺者 more than I probably should have due to learning it from anime early on in my time as a Japanese student .

Edit: Though I did resist the temptation to offer 拙者 when we were discussing ways to refer to yourself REALLY earlier on, and I never managed to organize my class into the prank of abruptly speaking in Kansai dialect for a day.

 

[KtSlime]

I find that that kind of humor just really doesn't come across.

 

[CornBurrito]

I find that that kind of humor just really doesn't come across.

Yeah, that's what I've been assuming.

Tangent:

How should I interpret: みなさんにたくさん幸せが降り注ぎますように

As far as I can tell it means something like: "A lot of happiness is pouring out from you all" ?

 

[KtSlime]

Yeah, that's what I've been assuming.

Tangent:

How should I interpret: みなさんにたくさん幸せが降り注ぎますように

As far as I can tell it means something like: "A lot of happiness is pouring out from you all" ?

A sentence ending with ように is a common way to indicate a wish or prayer or hope, so I would translate it like this "I hope (a lot of) happiness rains down on everyone (all)". Japanese can be very descriptive with adjectives/adverbs which can sound odd in English, so it is kind of up to you how you get them in there.

 

[CornBurrito]

ように is a common way to indicate a wish or prayer or hope, so I would translate it like this "I hope (a lot of) happiness rains down on everyone (all)". Japanese can be very descriptive with adjectives/adverbs which can sound odd in English, so it is kind of up to you how you get them in there.

Ah alright, I had no idea about the function of ように. Thanks. So I guess "降り注ぎます" means "to pour" but is also used to describe raining? Would it be used to describe pouring yourself a cup of tea?

 

[KtSlime]

Ah alright, I had no idea about the function of ように. Thanks. So I guess "降り注ぎます" means "to pour" but is also used to describe raining? Would it be used to describe pouring yourself a cup of tea?

そそぐ is to pour, 降る is to rain or precipitate. I would translate it to "to down pour" or "to rain a lot". I would just use そそぐ for a cup of tea.

You were asking the other day if you can take endings and what not and add them in Japanese, this is a case of 2 verbs being put together into one.

 

[I'm an expert]

How do I get Japanese language Kindle books on my Kindle

Amazon jp is not the same as Amazon.com apparently, so I can't get it to recognize my Kindle.

I believe that issue only exists with Kindle. My J-Kindle is back home so I can't test it, but here my American iphone syncs my J-library just fine.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You just have to log into your Kindle with your Amazon.co.jp account and you will have access to any books purchased on Amazon.co.jp. You can even download them and switch back to your Amazon.com account and the books will still be there (although you lose the Whispersync functionality, of course).

What year is your Kindle? I think only 2011 or 2012 models and beyond have Japanese support.

I will say, though, I sure wish the Kindle was around when I first started studying. The ability to just highlight a word and get the reading and dictionary definition is just fantastic.

 

[Zoe]

I will say, though, I sure wish the Kindle was around when I first started studying. The ability to just highlight a word and get the reading and dictionary definition is just fantastic.

Is it better than iOS? The one in iOS 7 pisses me off. It was better before :\