CornBurrito
Member
Nope I have not!
I don't want the "but" to be that strong in this case.
And just making sure, but does dropping the first "desu" make it less polite?
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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
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Nope I have not!
I don't want the "but" to be that strong in this case.
And just making sure, but does dropping the first "desu" make it less polite?
No. です as an indicator of politeness is a terminal marker, it doesn't belong in the middle of a sentence, it doesn't need to be after every adjective, just the last one, and only if you are ending your predicate with an adjective or noun. It can be there in spoken language, but I feel it sounds clumsy.
CornBurrito
Member
Just making sure. The extra "desu" sounded clumsy to me so I wanted to omit it, but I know in some examples we covered in class it was there.
Like when talking about a dog the teacher offered: かわいいですがちょっとふとっています
edit: Another question (so many these days):
I have to make a sentence structure using [place of motion]に[reason]に行く (well some conjugation of 行く
I chose [college]に[to study]に行きます。But I am afraid that sounds like "I will go to college to study" instead of "I am currently going to college to study. Instead of 行きます should I use 行っています?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
CornBurrito
Member
I'm not sure what is being said here. Don't drop the first "desu"?
I see google results for both cases.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Well,
"難しいが面白いです"
https://www.google.com/search?q="難し...210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q="難しいが面白いです"&safe=off
"難しいがおもしろいです"
https://www.google.com/search?q="難し...0&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q="難しいがおもしろいです"&safe=off
Either way is valid. One is arguably more common. I'd also say that keeping the first です makes it more polite or at least more humble sounding.
CornBurrito
Member
Alright. Thanks for the advice. I'll err on the side of caution and reinsert the desu.
Any input on my other question Zefah?
I have to make a sentence structure using [place of motion]に[reason]に行く (well some conjugation of 行く
I chose [college]に[to study]に行きます。But I am afraid that sounds like "I will go to college to study" instead of "I am currently going to college to study. Instead of 行きます should I use 行っています?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Alright. Thanks for the advice. I'll err on the side of caution and reinsert the desu.
Any input on my other question Zefah?
I have to make a sentence structure using [place of motion]に[reason]に行く (well some conjugation of 行く
I chose [college]に[to study]に行きます。But I am afraid that sounds like "I will go to college to study" instead of "I am currently going to college to study. Instead of 行きます should I use 行っています?
What would be the example in Japanese with those two in the brackets replaced?
CornBurrito
Member
僕は大学に科学を勉強しに行きます。
ｖｓ
僕は大学に科学を勉強しに行っています。
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Of those two choices, definitely go with the second one (行っています
.Have you learned ために yet? If so, are you able to use it here?
CornBurrito
Member
Of those two choices, definitely go with the second one (行っています
Have you learned ために yet? If so, are you able to use it here?
We haven't learned ために (it roughly translates to "for the sake of" or "for this reason" from what I can gather) and so I won't be able to use it. Unless it could be worked into that exact sentence structure. We have to do a [place]に[verb]に(行く、来る，帰る
sentence.I thought I broached it well by saying *I feel* it sounds clumsy, but you are right, it is often done. Using google to compare the two sentences is a good way to find out which is more common. I'm not a native speaker though, so maybe people do find saying ですが...です is more polite. But from a grammatical perspective, I was taught that the terminal です to show deference/politeness is only needed once.
CornBurrito: when in doubt, go with the one in most common use.
CornBurrito
Member
Ok so I'm still not sure I totally understand ~ている. At least not with certain words.
僕は忘れます.
僕は忘れました.
僕は忘れています.
ぼくは忘れていました.
If I understand this right, ぼくは忘れていました would mean "I had forgotten that" with the implication being that now you remember. Meanwhile 僕は忘れています would mean "I forget" with the implication being that you still do not remember the information.
But what about 僕は忘れます and 僕は忘れました? Would the former mean "I am forgetting?" Like... if someone ordered you to forget what you just saw, would you be able to say 僕は忘れます? And then is the latter saying "I was forgetting"?
僕は忘れます.
僕は忘れました.
僕は忘れています.
ぼくは忘れていました.
If I understand this right, ぼくは忘れていました would mean "I had forgotten that" with the implication being that now you remember. Meanwhile 僕は忘れています would mean "I forget" with the implication being that you still do not remember the information.
But what about 僕は忘れます and 僕は忘れました? Would the former mean "I am forgetting?" Like... if someone ordered you to forget what you just saw, would you be able to say 僕は忘れます? And then is the latter saying "I was forgetting"?
Japanese does not map directly onto english, and this part is no different. 忘れる is to forget something, but until the point you remember, you are continually in the state. This is represented by gerund (-てform)+います in Japanese. You will come to many cases like this. For instance earlier in you 大学 sentence, you are in a state of regularly attending school, that's why 行っています is better. The other sentence, 行きます sounds like you are going to do it in the future.
shanshan310
Member
Which online dictionary are you using? I definitely recommend jisho.org, it has a really big data base of everything from names to slang and technical terms, so if there is a word you need to know chances are it'll be there. Very clear explanations too.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Doesn't jisho just use Jim Breen..?
shanshan310
Member
oh does it? lol. I seem to remember that one being pretty decent too. Would explain that.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
http://jisho.org/about/
Basically lol. I'm not saying a more.. up to date.. UX isn't appreciated, but if it isn't Jim Breen or ALC, it is most likely using their info. Jim Breen has been a part of my life for like 15 years lol. He should be a national treasure to you.
Edit: I should add it's not that the info is all their work, but the compilation of various dictionaries is
Basically lol. I'm not saying a more.. up to date.. UX isn't appreciated, but if it isn't Jim Breen or ALC, it is most likely using their info. Jim Breen has been a part of my life for like 15 years lol. He should be a national treasure to you.
Edit: I should add it's not that the info is all their work, but the compilation of various dictionaries is
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I had somehow never heard of Jim Breen before.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Did you learn Japanese before the internet..?
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Nope. Started around 2002. Maybe I had seen the site before (certainly looks from the 90s) but just forgot about it. I had no idea it was a useful resource until now.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Not saying you can't learn J-go without it lol. Did you use any other online dictionaries? I don't remember if ALC was around back then.
I mean e to j and j to e, not just j. Also electronic dictionaries don't count.
I mean e to j and j to e, not just j. Also electronic dictionaries don't count.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think ALC was around until later.
I did get a nice portable electronic dictionary early on, so that is mostly what I used.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Those don't count!!!
Btw: is this our little community thread? I'm loving Zefah destroyin fools in the fedex thread
Btw: is this our little community thread? I'm loving Zefah destroyin fools in the fedex thread
CornBurrito
Member
Ohmyfuckinggod. Reading a Japanese novel is so.... impossible.
I can't even figure out the grammar. Thankfully I have a good dictionary (with usage examples) so I think I get the gist of the first sentence.
Maybe I should stick with manga for now.
I can't even figure out the grammar. Thankfully I have a good dictionary (with usage examples) so I think I get the gist of the first sentence.
Maybe I should stick with manga for now.
Ha, yeah it's really tough. Sucks that 3DS is region locked, or you could have used that. Maybe try Pokemon X/Y since you can change the language on that. Pokemon games and Zelda games are amazing for beginner Japanese.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I'm not saying you shouldn't challenge yourself, but you have to know your limits. If you want to keep it real, you will probably have to study at least a jlpt 2 grammar list for the basics of written grammar.
CornBurrito
Member
Yeah I'm going to have to scale things back for now. Study a bit more, try again later.
I don't wanna reset my Pokemon
Maybe I could buy another cart, but I won't replay it. Zelda it is I guess. The 3DS Zelda game(s) have Japanese option on English carts right?
Yeah I'm going to have to scale things back for now. Study a bit more, try again later.
I don't wanna reset my Pokemon
Maybe I could buy another cart, but I won't replay it. Zelda it is I guess. The 3DS Zelda game(s) have Japanese option on English carts right?
I don't think they do. If my memory isn't failing me, I think Pokemon X/Y were the only games with language options (for Japanese anyways).
I imported the Ginpachi Class Z light novels a few months ago and my heart sunk when I opened the first page. I don't really care much for manga - I...want real sentences. So I'll have to keep at it.
HisshouBuraiKen
Member
It takes a long time before you can read them without a dictionary but it's worth the effort. Whole nother set of literary worlds to explore. Sure you'll still hit the odd word you don't know but that can happen with english books too. Novels are the main reason I passed N1.
Actually this's as good a time to ask as any: anyone read the Sword Art Online novels? Are they any good? I enjoyed the anime.
CornBurrito
Member
I don't think you quite understand. I can't read it WITH a dictionary. The grammar is too hard for me as well as the words. I can't tell what is trying to be said.
The first sentence of the novel is: "ああ！漸く、ほんとにやうやく、今日もまた今のびのびと体を投げ出すにとの出来る時が来ました。"
Even with a dictionary my understanding falls apart right after のびのび.
Is manga not real sentences? I mean I know it isn't high literature but wouldn't there be a lot of colloquial terms?
I don't get the にとの thing. You sure you got it right? There's either a word I don't know in there, or a combination of particles I've never seen or can make sense of. Disregarding this part, I think the sentence basically means "Ah, finally, FINALLY [almost wanted to type "fucking finally"], today I can once more take the time to stretch and unwind" or something. Sorry if the phrasing sounds awkward, I'm translating from a language which is not my mother tongue into another language which isn't my mother tongue either!
Still, anyone care to break down and explain the にとの part?
Zoe
Member
It's conversational. How many even somewhat advanced grammatical structures do you mix into your normal conversations?
CornBurrito
Member
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
You sure? A quick Google search indicates you may not have:
https://www.google.com/search?q=今日も...j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
Perhaps this is the truth of it?
ああ！　漸く、ほんとにやうやく、今日もまた今のびのびと体を投げ出すことの出来る時が来ました。
I think the に was a こ
Also, if you're reading what I think you're reading, you may want to start with something a bit more contemporary for your first novel. A lot of minor details about the way Japanese is written has changed quite a bit since before World War II.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Damn people really need to step dey hiragana game up.
CornBurrito
Member
What? I am absolutely positive I copied it correctly.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Hm? Did you see Zefah's post?
CornBurrito
Member
My eyes missed it. Fuck. -_-
I read it as "ko" but my hands typed "ni." Didn't even see that in my post.
shanshan310
Member
A whole book is quite a commitment. I would actually say that starting with online news articles etc would be a better idea. It depends on the topic of course, but I learnt a lot of really useful vocabulary that way and it didnt take too long to study.
Or you could just get a Japanese 3DS. No getting lazy with English games that way!
CornBurrito
Member
Sounds cheaper to get a Nintendo DS and just play Japanese games on it. Not like the DS lacks a solid library.
*hugs Japanese 3DSXL* I love this thing. Best investment for having fun while learning Japanese for me.
Necromanti
Member
Holy crap! My limited understanding of classical Japanese is actually relevant for once. I had no clue that these antiquities still held in early 20th century Japanese. (I take it that it's written in an older style of Japanese for a reason, unless the version of Natsume Souseki's Kokoro that I read had been updated for a modern audience.)
I see the hiragana ゐ (wi) instead of い.
I was wondering why I was seeing やうやく. (やう＝よう）
迎へ instead of 迎え.
云ふ instead of いう （言う、云う）.
懐かしい！
Not.
For the love of god, CornBurrito, don't punish yourself like this.
Don't forget the complete lack of small kana, so 疲れ切つてゐる instead of 疲れきっている and すつかり rather than すっかり. Mmmmmyes. I'm actually tempted to read this just for the old writing style, because these things are just too delicious to me.
Also: kanji for everything. 何も彼も? I didn't even know the か of 何もかも had a kanji =D
EDIT: Aw yiss, I see kana iteration marks as well. Both the double type (グタ／＼ for ぐたぐた
and the single type (えゝ for ええ. Oh, and the dakuten type (lots of たゞs in here).HisshouBuraiKen
Member
Haha took the words right outta my mouth, as soon as I saw やうやく I thought "well no WONDER". cnet you're a real masochist.
Zoe
Member
Huh, so Ruby supports furigana? I'll have to remember that.
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