hitsugi
Member
Thanks. This seems like a better investment of $20 for sure.
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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
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Thanks. This seems like a better investment of $20 for sure.
There's this question at the end of lesson 4, in the Genki workbook, that I just don't know how they want me to answer. It's something like: Where is your house? They use どこ and うち. Am I supposed to be specific or just say America or Texas? I don't know. I need some help from my senpai.
Zoe
Member
I'd guess to be specific. If they wanted to know where you're from, it probably would have used しゅっしん
Zoe
Member
How about something like "10 minutes from school" or "near the McDonald's".
There are a million ways to answer that question.
stump sock
Member
Zoe
Member
"What's in your town?"
Thanks. Appreciate it. Turns out I was supposed to say what my town's name was in the first question I asked because they answered "私の家は大阪です。". Good thing テクサーカナ has a Japanese wiki page or I wouldn't have known the katakana for it.
Do you need to pay attention to stroke direction and order or just order? I just now noticed that some strokes originate in a starting point that doesn't feel natural based on how the calligraphy line looks. Also, why doesn't Genki workbook give stroke order or meaning for kanji? I don't even know if I should bother with the writing practice for kanji without the order.
Thanks, I'll add that site. I've peeked at Heisig before and bought the Kanji book we'll eventually use for the course, so I think I'll start doing some drills before we get there.
Ah, you're learning Korean now? Yeah I got the Genki book in Korean and most explanations are "just like how we use it".
TheSporkWithin
Member
It depends on your goals. If you want to be "literate" someday, the sooner you start working on internalizing kanji the better. Genki gives you a few kanji, but they're not taught in any particularly effective way and you only are expected to learn about 300 over the course of the two volumes, which is very slow.
If you can devote some time daily to other methods of kanji study, whether it's Heisig's Remembering the Kanji, use of flash cards, KanjiBox or some other method, your reading ability will increase a hell of a lot faster. Even if you only put in a little bit of time it'll leave you much better prepared to move forwards after finishing Genki.
I'm writing this as someone who wishes they had spent more time studying "extracurricular" kanji in the past. I've been pushing very hard on it for the past six months, but long-term familiarity is necessary for literacy, and the sooner you start on getting familiar the better you'll do in the long run.
Goals are to be able communicate with Japanese people in as close a natural way without living there, playing Japanese games, watching anime in it's raw for, reading manga/books in their original forms. I want to attempt the proficiency tests, but the nearest testing area is pretty far and I can't really travel. I wonder if they'd work with me and let me take the test at the local college.
TheSporkWithin
Member
Yeah, if you think you're in it for the long haul, start working on kanji as much as you can stand; but not to the detriment of grammar and vocab studies.
Especially for gaming, kanji can be an enormous roadblock. On the 3DS it can be very hard to recognize characters unless you know them by heart, thanks to the low resolution screen. Good luck trying to decipher a 20 stroke kanji that's rendered in a 12x12 pixel square, unless you straight-up recognize the compound it's in.
It's such a tedious and samey process that you'll really gain nothing postponing it. Learning 5 kanji today and 5 tomorrow will be a lot easier to stomach than learning 10 kanji tomorrow, even more when it's not 10 but 2000.
I also think in terms of grammar, it's the other way around, it'll help you learn grammar better if you have more vocab in you.
Agreed with both.
Also I'm now experimenting with relearning Mandarin (now with actual grammar and an INTEREST... I spent like fucking a full decade as a primary school kid just memorising workbook chapters and not learning a damn thing) and man I can already see this completely driving me mad.
Still I get encouraged because I can piece together what things mean in Japanese now and that makes me very happy
It's a good idea to get kanji behind you and to start as soon as possible, as your learning anything beyond the most basic of the language is severely crippled by not being to some extent familiar with them.
That being said, getting through some kanji (through RTK, or any other method) does take time and it would be nice if you had some experience before you start so that you aren't just cramming kanji for several months and can do something besides that to keep your sanity.
I think I was done with Genki I before I started seriously studying kanji. And you only need ~75 or so to get through the first Genki book.
Aizo
Banned
Nahhh, I took a class a few years ago. I was told I spoke with a Japanese accent hahahah
You won't have to, but better to know something more than to learn it later, especially if you take a gradual, sloping buildup.
It'll also get your confidence up and help you through the dark times when you feel like you're not really making any progress, especially with Japanese where you definitely won't be able to read much real-world use materials without starring kanji
Zoe
Member
Whichever you do, your retention will probably be better if you're actually writing it out.
stump sock
Member
have an iPad? once again, Kanjibox. get the 99 cent KanjiDraw add-on. do drills, do the drawing exercises, etc.
also just find something that makes you step out of your comfort zone. I try to translate at least one, if not several, tweets a day. I find that really helps with learning compound kanji words, just practical experience. and they're only 140 characters so you're not spending all day on it.
also just find something that makes you step out of your comfort zone. I try to translate at least one, if not several, tweets a day. I find that really helps with learning compound kanji words, just practical experience. and they're only 140 characters so you're not spending all day on it.
Just don't jump on splatoon tweets, I'm having enough trouble racing streetsahead to those as is
Yeah, someone I know told me writing helps a lot.
Nah, I don't have an iPad or iPhone or a tablet or smart phone for that matter.
TheSporkWithin
Member
In all honesty, picking up an older-generation iPod Touch would be a great investment. Storage size doesn't matter. You can load it up with free and (comparatively) low-cost dictionary and study software, and end up with a very user-friendly study tool/denshi jisho for well under $200.
I use my iPhone constantly for this stuff, and I've strongly considered getting an old iPod Touch to be my "dedicated" Japanese device.
stump sock
Member
yeah it's a shame that the android market is so far behind the iOS market in regards to Japanese apps as I'm not really a huge fan of the platform. but as it stands now, I think it's one of the best investments you could make while learning the language.
Aizo
Banned
Anki is free for android! Also, aedict is the best electronic dictionary I've ever used. That's all I need~
Valkerionseven
Member
Trying to buckle down and actually study this now.... in that weird, I know the sounds of the hiragana/katakana charts, but still randomly missing things/recognizing them. Its more I know the order, not the actual characters in themselves which is a issue.
Just gotta keep chipping away at it I guess.
Also am I crazy for having more trouble with Katakana than hiragana...
Just gotta keep chipping away at it I guess.
Also am I crazy for having more trouble with Katakana than hiragana...
stump sock
Member
for me, katakana was easier to learn, but trying to read it is still a goddamn nightmare, like two years later.
hitsugi
Member
I'm with you on that.. well namely these: ソンシツ
The first time I went through them I laughed to myself. However, in all seriousness, katakana took me way, way, way longer to learn than hiragana did.
stump sock
Member
alright, you want some dumb mnemonics?
シツ : shi tsu : shih tzu : if you imagine they're both smiley faces (not a stretch) and シ is looking to the right, and ツ is looking left, they're looking at each other.
also I'm stealing this one from someone else, and yes it's kind of dumb, so don't make fun of me for it
ヨ =
= "yo"
Valkerionseven
Member
This is the problem I'm having, its just oddly frustrating to read even though "its simple" lol.
シ(shi) points to the side. ツ(tsu) points up. Also, you can pick up on tsu because of the small version that is used to give the double consonant just like in hiragana. ン points to the side. ソ(so) points up. The real problem I have with katakana is figuring out what the word actually is. Some of them take context and sometimes there is none.
points to the side. ソ(so) points up. The real problem I have with katakana is figuring out what the word actually is. Some of them take context and sometimes there is none.ソ　and ン　are real assholes. The only thing that comforted me is that one of my colleagues told me that even Japanese people constantly confuse them in handwriting, so if you're going to write ン, add a little tick to the bottom. Doesn't really help for reading tho
ソ is more rounded too I guess.
ソ is more rounded too I guess.
Hey guys!
I have a question regarding 代わり（かわり）に.
Can you use it with verbs, as in the following example:
Instead of going to the cinema, I went to visit my friend.
映画館（えいがかん）へ行く（いく）代わり（かわり）に友達（ともだち）の家（いえ）へあそびにいきました。
Or perhaps.
映画館（えいがかん）へ行く（いく）ことの代わり（かわり）に友達（ともだち）の家（いえ）へあそびにいきました。
Also, if this does indeed work, are the verb tenses I used in the above sentences correct?
I have a question regarding 代わり（かわり）に.
Can you use it with verbs, as in the following example:
Instead of going to the cinema, I went to visit my friend.
映画館（えいがかん）へ行く（いく）代わり（かわり）に友達（ともだち）の家（いえ）へあそびにいきました。
Or perhaps.
映画館（えいがかん）へ行く（いく）ことの代わり（かわり）に友達（ともだち）の家（いえ）へあそびにいきました。
Also, if this does indeed work, are the verb tenses I used in the above sentences correct?
代わりにworks with dictionary form, past or nonpast.
Vnonpast 代わりに is used the way you used in in your first sentence, to express doing one thing instead of another. In this case the first case hasn't happened. e.g. in your sentence, you didn't go to the cinema.
Vpast 代わりに is used when the action already happened and usually you were supposed to be doing something else instead. The second part of the sentence is then sort of the make-up-for-it part.
e.g. 映画館へ行った代わりに今晩友達の家に勉強しに行きます。
I went to the cinema (instead of studying), so (to compensate for that) tonight I'm going to a friend's place to study.
The second part can be any tense really, maybe that was last night and it would be past, or you want to do that with ～行きたい etc, so only the tense before 代わりに actually changes the overall meaning.
I suppose it can be used with Vこと, since it just becomes a substantive then, don't know if it's necessary or common though.
Vnonpast 代わりに is used the way you used in in your first sentence, to express doing one thing instead of another. In this case the first case hasn't happened. e.g. in your sentence, you didn't go to the cinema.
Vpast 代わりに is used when the action already happened and usually you were supposed to be doing something else instead. The second part of the sentence is then sort of the make-up-for-it part.
e.g. 映画館へ行った代わりに今晩友達の家に勉強しに行きます。
I went to the cinema (instead of studying), so (to compensate for that) tonight I'm going to a friend's place to study.
The second part can be any tense really, maybe that was last night and it would be past, or you want to do that with ～行きたい etc, so only the tense before 代わりに actually changes the overall meaning.
I suppose it can be used with Vこと, since it just becomes a substantive then, don't know if it's necessary or common though.
I get this from my students, who inform me that the things I generally find frustrating, are all things they've experienced.
My latest bugbear is casual form. It's fine in writing, and I understand it. It's just that, in conversation, I have the occasional blip. Ugh!
Oh wow! That's a very detailed explanation! I really really appreciate this, thanks a lot!
Oh wow! That's a very detailed explanation! I really really appreciate this, thanks a lot!
Seconded.
Finally got JLPT results after having it sent via 2 universities. Passed JLPT3! ...but just barely. Didn't start revising specifically for JLPT until 2 days prior to the test because I am dumb and lazy, so I didn't really know the vocabulary at all. A lot of what we'd learnt in our classes(especially kanji) is JLPT 1 or 2, and so was useless as far as the test was concerned.
Bassmastergeneral
Member
Looking for a basic polite translation help for this:
I am very interested in studying as a graduate student with you if you are available to supervise. I think that our areas of interest and goals are very similar and I think that my academic background will be a benefit to your research.
I am very interested in studying as a graduate student with you if you are available to supervise. I think that our areas of interest and goals are very similar and I think that my academic background will be a benefit to your research.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I know what you're going for here, but you really don't see that kind of usage. It's weird and it looks more like you got your tenses mixed up than anything else. I don't think most people would get the meaning you're implying of going to the movies instead of studying. I think it would be a lot better to be more specific--maybe something like this?
昨日は勉強する代わりに映画を観に行ったので、今晩友達の家に勉強しに行きます。
TheSporkWithin
Member
Literally any cheap notebook. I buy mine from the 100 yen shop in packs of three.
From a purely comfort perspective I prefer cloth-bound to spiral-bound, as I'm using it for over an hour at a stretch. It's also a good idea to get wide-ruled so you have more vertical space for your kanji. Otherwise they can get pretty cramped.
Well, I was thinking about some grid paper Japanese notebooks on Amazon.
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