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[Resilient]

OK, interested in seeing how you'd approach it, so here's more context. Let's say, I'm complaining/having a sook about having to file a complaint. I don't really want to make the complaint, but I'm making it? LOL?

"I shouldn't really complain too much because, the situation isn't that bad"

I had this:
けど情勢をこじらせられるから、たくさん訴えなくてはいけません。

However, because the situation could be worse, I should not complain a lot.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

OK, interested in seeing how you'd approach it, so here's more context. Let's say, I'm complaining/having a sook about having to file a complaint. I don't really want to make the complaint, but I'm making it? LOL?

"I shouldn't really complain too much because, the situation isn't that bad"

I had this:
けど情勢をこじらせられるから、たくさん訴えなくてはいけません。

However, because the situation could be worse, I should not complain a lot.

I gotta admit I'm a bit lost, mate. I'm just having trouble imagining a situation where you don't want to complain (do you mean actually file an official complaint?), but are going to anyway.

Is it a situation where you have some kind of obligation to file a complaint or something, but in reality you don't think whatever happened is really a big deal and are just lamenting the fact that you're obligated to do so anyway?

Maybe cover the "i don't want to" element with something like:
本当はやりたくないのだけど、

 

[Resilient]

I gotta admit I'm a bit lost, mate. I'm just having trouble imagining a situation where you don't want to complain (do you mean actually file an official complaint?), but are going to anyway.

Is it a situation where you have some kind of obligation to file a complaint or something, but in reality you don't think whatever happened is really a big deal and are just lamenting the fact that you're obligated to do so anyway?

Maybe cover the "i don't want to" element with something like:
本当はやりたくないのだけど、

That's it!

To be honest I think the way I initially wrote it covers it well, but adding 本当はやりたくないのだけど before helps clarify it.

i was more curious to see what people thought, as usual everyone has a different way of saying it
!

 

[urfe]

I think when making a complaint using the word complain makes it sounds quite direct, but I'm not sure of the context.
I might start with:
言ったほうがいいが迷ってるんですが、
or
あんまり言いたくないんですが

And then I'd say the complaint.

But, where is it, and to whom is kind of important.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Also, I don't think I've really ever seen つぶやく be used in a "complain" context before. Even more so after the rise of Twitter.

Haha, I've been reading キノの旅 and it's used a lot in that way for Hermes' grumbling and complaining. That predates Twitter by a lot; I hadn't really thought about it falling out of use since then.

This was actually enlightening for me as well.

EDIT: Would 「文句を言わないはずですが…」 make sense? Not necessarily for this situation, but does that parse properly? I think maybe I mixed up はずはない and 〜ないはずです in my previous post.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Threw together a guide for signing up to Ehon Navi. You can read 1500 (and counting) Japanese picture books in their entirety, for free. They're mostly written in kana but they're good for intermediate learners looking for natural, native material.

Note: you can only read each book once, so don't go too crazy with your browsing. There are short samples available which don't "consume" your reading privilege though.

 

[Jintor]

Threw together a guide for signing up to Ehon Navi. You can read 1500 (and counting) Japanese picture books in their entirety, for free. They're mostly written in kana but they're good for intermediate learners looking for natural, native material.

Note: you can only read each book once, so don't go too crazy with your browsing. There are short samples available which don't "consume" your reading privilege though.

ooooooh. thanks sporky

 

[Porcile]

While I have managed to break through the grammar wall I was stuck up against, I think focusing just on using a textbook, as correctly guessed on here, was killing all my ambition and enjoyment of learning of Japanese. I'll continue to use a textbook obviously but I went ahead and bought some children's manga from Amazon.jp. I bought volume one of Doraemon, Crayon Shinchan, Astro Boy and Rakudai Ninja Rantarou (never heard of this one before). I figured that even if they are too complicated for me right now, they will still be able to keep me occupied for a long time. Might go against all my principles and sign up to Twitter to follow some Japanese game devs I like too.

 

[Resilient]

If I were you I would stick with the text books for a bit longer. When I was at your point I got bored of the book cause it felt repetitive/draining so I bought some manga online and tried to read it. I sucked, it pissed me off even more, and so I went back to learning more grammar patterns.

I think you're gonna get more pissed off as you try to read a book and find that you can't recall basic things you had learned months prior.

 

[blurr]

What do you guys use/do for improving vocabulary?

I'm currently using a desktop application called Tagini Jisho, it has all vocabulary based on JLPT level. I was having a lot of issues with vocabulary prior to using it. Once I started marking off words I know and looking into words I keep hearing for a while every day, I've noticed my vocabulary improve substantially. I can even keep track of the amount of words I know. Currently it's at ~2000

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I'm having trouble with the traditional textbook, but there's a book I found Porcile called learning Japanese the Manga Way...I'm actually using it more than Genki, and it feels easier to sort of get a feel for the language. On the downside, it's pretty much all in English except for the actual manga panels which might slow you down a bit, and some of the terminology is different from what Genki uses, but I get the examples a bit better, and it's probably better than tackling full-size manga. And it specifically avoids using Shonen manga and such so the examples are probably closer to the colloquial style you'd encounter in daily life, although perhaps a bit outdated since most of the comics are a bit older.

That and I've been regularly reading before bed this book of Kanji...I've found reading it before I go to sleep when I'm half awake actually seems to store it better. I did the same thing when learning katakana/hiragana and it seems that's the best way I study, haha.

The other day I also practiced a bit translating a 4koma comic, which I found to be the first time in awhile I felt relatively strong in my understanding of the language---I mean I had to look words up, but the grammatical structure was very easy to figure out.

By the end of the year, I hope I'm fluent enough to try and play through Pokemon Black in Japanese since I think that'd be a good test to see where I'm at.

 

[Resilient]

Can't say that book sounds too practical but I haven't read it so I can't know for sure.

If you guys are struggling and want a book that teaches you grammar, with vocab and kanji included, try 日本語チャレンジ ー 文法 Ｎ４。

It takes you through all the grammar patterns required for N4. It teaches you properly with the right terms etc. it's detailed. All answers are in English. Explanations are in partial English. Majority of it is written in Japanese, 漢字 has ふりがな as well which will help with you guys having fears of not learning enough 漢字。

IMO I think this is your best bet, when I read it I was surprised how easy and succinctly it lists everything you need to learn. It also has multiple choice questions which mimic the Ｎ４の試験 format.

 

[blurr]

For grammar I'd suggest renshuu.org 's grammar section at least as a reference. I don't have books so it's my primary source at the moment.

 

[Resilient]

There are plenty of grammar resources but these guys are struggling to hold interest with the early content past basic kana understanding, stuff like て and た form which I why I'm suggesting easy books that have heaps of pictures, explanations and diagrams, and stories to help you remember.

Plus the tests to put the knowledge to practical to use. That's the most important thing IMO. Reading notes is easy, but how do you know you've remembered it until you need to apply it?

 

[blurr]

Yes, I've learned all of N4 and a good chunk of N5 grammar through renshuu, currently half way through N3 grammar. Books are of course a better choice, I've started off with books myself but if one can't get their hands on a good book, the website could prove to be a good reference. At least it has been for me, saying this as someone who has been self-studying.

As to how I remember them, I suppose it is mostly because of listening (in anime mostly) or reading something occasionally. I also try to have conversations with friends who are also learning/are in the same level. I wish I could've taken up a test but there's no JLPT center near my city.

BTW the books I used to start off is Mirai Japanese Course book Stage 1 and 2, they are really beginner friendly.
https://www.cheng-tsui.com/browse/textbooks-language-learning/mirai/mirai-stage-1-course-book

 

[Porcile]

I think I may have misrepresented myself here. Right now I'm going over Japanese from Zero Book 2 again, and will start up on Book 3 when I've finished doing that. My aim by December is to have completed all five of the JFZ courses, which I believe in terms of grammar roughly brings you up to around N4 starting to go into N3 style grammar. The problem was that I feel I haven't been making any progress because of my lack of engagement with anything in Japanese, other than a textbook, since I started learning, and that was driving a wedge between my enjoyment and desire to learn. Yeah, by all means I may not even be able to get past page one of Doraemon or whatever, but it seems somewhat miserly to continue to deny myself any engagement with the thing I'm actually trying to learn. What's the worst that could happen? I put the book down and do more grammar until I can understand a bit more. Even so, at least there's a little bit of adventure in there, which after a while is exactly what a textbook lacks on its own.

 

[Resilient]

Are you on Hello Talk? I'm happy to practice daily conversation with you just taking about junk, with convos bein exclusively in Japanese.

 

[blurr]

I installed HelloTalk recently but people I've added are barely online

My id is warunonair btw

 

[Porcile]

I'll get it downloaded onto my phone this evening. Could be fun.

 

[stump sock]

If you guys are struggling and want a book that teaches you grammar, with vocab and kanji included, try 日本語チャレンジ ー 文法 Ｎ４。

thanks for the suggestion, I could use something like this.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

There are plenty of grammar resources but these guys are struggling to hold interest with the early content past basic kana understanding, stuff like て and た form which I why I'm suggesting easy books that have heaps of pictures, explanations and diagrams, and stories to help you remember.

I really think the Japanese the Manga Way has helped me though, even though I can see why it might sound a bit gimmicky...I actually think I've got a fair understanding of the "te" form where before it confused me. Now I get how it combines with iru for example to show the continuation of a verb for instance as one of its uses.

I also like how it teaches about the various colloquial contractions which I don't think I would've picked up on through textbooks which seem to ignore that.

 

[bigmit3737]

I think I may have misrepresented myself here. Right now I'm going over Japanese from Zero Book 2 again, and will start up on Book 3 when I've finished doing that. My aim by December is to have completed all five of the JFZ courses, which I believe in terms of grammar roughly brings you up to around N4 starting to go into N3 style grammar. The problem was that I feel I haven't been making any progress because of my lack of engagement with anything in Japanese, other than a textbook, since I started learning, and that was driving a wedge between my enjoyment and desire to learn. Yeah, by all means I may not even be able to get past page one of Doraemon or whatever, but it seems somewhat miserly to continue to deny myself any engagement with the thing I'm actually trying to learn. What's the worst that could happen? I put the book down and do more grammar until I can understand a bit more. Even so, at least there's a little bit of adventure in there, which after a while is exactly what a textbook lacks on its own.

Take it one step at a time . There are many aspects to study so you may not feel you are professing but you are. Once you got the grammar down, you can work on vocabulary, then reading a lot more etc.


Just keep at it and everything will fit together in the end.

 

[leroidys]

Does anyone know of something like Heisig in that it first teaches you radicals and then builds from there, but actually incorporates real radical/kanji sounds and readings?

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Does anyone know of something like Heisig in that it first teaches you radicals and then builds from there, but actually incorporates real radical/kanji sounds and readings?

Heisig + Jisho.org

I made a ton of edits to a shared Heisig deck in Anki. I added common "trigger" words using the on and kun yomi for nearly all of the kanji on the hint side, and instead of just writing the kanji alone I wrote a few of its compounds each time the card came up. I also changed radical names and stories where I deemed appropriate (though, honestly, having the radicals be a bit off on their meaning is NOT the big deal that some people make it out to be. They're mainly useful as a mnemonic device, rather than for divulging the meaning of unknown kanji). Mostly things like changing "piggy bank" and "sunglasses" to things that were a little easier for me to integrate ("open" like an open space or open wound and "ballerina" respectively).

I have to say, it was absolutely brutal. I was doing between 15 and 40 new cards each day, which usually took upwards of an hour, sometimes closer to two if I decided to push myself and add a very heavy load, and powered through in about 6 months (but it took another 3 months of review before most of the kanji were really comfortable), and I still review it every day. I'm very hard on myself when it comes to correct/difficult/incorrect answers, so I still have about 60 or 70 reviews on that deck each day, even though I'm (relatively) fairly literate for an N3/N2 level learner.

 

[stump sock]

Does anyone know of something like Heisig in that it first teaches you radicals and then builds from there, but actually incorporates real radical/kanji sounds and readings?

wanikani might be what you're looking for. be warned, it starts a little slow and requires some commitment.

once it gets going it really gets going. but I love it. SRS apparently works wonders on me, and stat tracking keeps me engaged.

 

[Stuart444]

wanikani might be what you're looking for. be warned, it starts a little slow and requires some commitment.

once it gets going it really gets going. but I love it. SRS apparently works wonders on me, and stat tracking keeps me engaged.

Plus it's just out of beta and the free levels have been increased to 3 instead of 2 so you can do everything up to level 3 without paying. By then, you should know if it's for you or not.

 

[stump sock]

yeah moving the free levels up to 3 was a smart move, since 3 is pretty much when you start to get a taste for what the "real" wk experience is. subscription is totally worth it, IMO.

 

[KanameYuuki]

Alright so I finally decided to learn Japanese, so far learning a new language has been fun since I get a peak at how different cultures look and solve their problems, in this case communicating, I'm using Japanese n Mangaland book series since a friend of mine advised me to give it a try and I'm only at really basic stuff (So far introducing to simple verb to be sentences).

The only problem I have is that I'm way too eager with everything and I already want to listed and read without any trouble lol, I hope I'm able to get to a decent level.

 

[Kurita]

Alright so I finally decided to learn Japanese, so far learning a new language has been fun since I get a peak at how different cultures look and solve their problems, in this case communicating, I'm using Japanese n Mangaland book series since a friend of mine advised me to give it a try and I'm only at really basic stuff (So far introducing to simple verb to be sentences).

The only problem I have is that I'm way too eager with everything and I already want to listed and read without any trouble lol, I hope I'm able to get to a decent level.

Yeah well this will have to wait a liiiiiittle bit

 

[Resilient]

who is taking a test this Dec?
are there any Australian peeps in here?

 

[stump sock]

who is taking a test this Dec?
are there any Australian peeps in here?

ack, I'm probably gonna take the N4 even though I know I'm in over my head

but I'd rather give it a shot and fail than not try.

 

[Resilient]

ack, I'm probably gonna take the N4 even though I know I'm in over my head

but I'd rather give it a shot and fail than not try.

how come?
do you know most of the N4 grammar patterns?
how is your vocab?
what's your listening game like? you've got 90 days, i think you can probably do it. don't forget to register, think it cuts off tomorrow!

 

[stump sock]

listening isn't great. vocab is getting there. grammar is... well I'm not super confident.

I could pass the N5 with my eyes closed but it almost seems silly to do so?

e: and it closes on the 25th in the US

 

[Russ T]

Hello I'm new to this thread but not new to Japanese but I might as well be.

I studied it in college, and also lived in Japan for six months. I was never good at it, but I was able to ask directions, order food, introduce myself.

That was like eight years ago... I remember so very little now.

Anyway I'm tired of not knowing a second language, so I'm gonna give this another shot, albeit outside the constructs of school, which means I have to motivate myself?! So I guess I need to figure out how to go about doing that!

 

[TheSporkWithin]

I'm currently waffling over whether to bother registering for December. I don't think I have a very good chance of passing the N2 (this would be my first time taking it) as I have quite a bit of vocab to learn and a lot of shaky grammar (I can read it and understand, but fiddly questions throw me). Motivation isn't a factor as I'm making steady progress and happily consuming a wide variety of native reading material. I'm going to be with JET at least another year, so there's no rush in terms of getting certifications either. If I wait until July I'll probably be in a much better position to pass the N2.

Alternatively, I could take the N3 which I never actually attempted, but I see that as a bit of a waste of time at this point. The only thing that might throw me is the listening, and I already know that's a weak point and I'm working on it with podcasts and TV shows.

I'm honestly thinking I'm better off just continuing as I've been doing for another 6 months and skipping the December test as well (I already skipped the July test for financial reasons).

 

[Resilient]

if I were you, i'd burn the $80 and take N2 just to see how you go, then have another attempt in July if you don't pass.

Russ T, welcome to the thread

 

[Resilient]

listening isn't great. vocab is getting there. grammar is... well I'm not super confident.

I could pass the N5 with my eyes closed but it almost seems silly to do so?

e: and it closes on the 25th in the US

did you buy those books? are you a student or are you working?

Nihongo Challenge Kotoba and Nihongo Challenge Bunpo are my recommendations if you want to get up to speed for the N4 test. The grammar book takes some time because there is a lot of content - if you read through that, you should know whether you'll be able to pass it or not.

ask me if you got any questions about it!

 

[Kurita]

who is taking a test this Dec?
are there any Australian peeps in here?

Taking N2

 

[GSR]

Registered for N1 last week. I passed N2 pretty handily last year so I'm hoping that if I spend the next few months focusing on N1 vocab I'll be able to pass.

 

[Aizo]

who is taking a test this Dec?

I'll be taking N2. My listening was good enough last year, but my reading comprehension wasn't.
What are you taking?

 

[Resilient]

I'll be taking N2. My listening was good enough last year, but my reading comprehension wasn't.
What are you taking?

N4! But I'm basically "done" with my N4 study and have been working through N3 content in the meantime, will come back and revise before the test.

Lot of N2 folk in here. Are you all in 2 test per year countries?

 

[Kurita]

I'm French and we only have 1 test, the one in December.

 

[shanshan310]

I'm currently waffling over whether to bother registering for December. I don't think I have a very good chance of passing the N2 (this would be my first time taking it) as I have quite a bit of vocab to learn and a lot of shaky grammar (I can read it and understand, but fiddly questions throw me). Motivation isn't a factor as I'm making steady progress and happily consuming a wide variety of native reading material. I'm going to be with JET at least another year, so there's no rush in terms of getting certifications either. If I wait until July I'll probably be in a much better position to pass the N2.

Alternatively, I could take the N3 which I never actually attempted, but I see that as a bit of a waste of time at this point. The only thing that might throw me is the listening, and I already know that's a weak point and I'm working on it with podcasts and TV shows.

I'm honestly thinking I'm better off just continuing as I've been doing for another 6 months and skipping the December test as well (I already skipped the July test for financial reasons).

If you haven't taken the test before I really recommend doing practice tests not only to check your level but also to familiarise yourself with the test situation. The first time I took N2 I lost a load of points in reading comprehension because I paced myself poorly and ran out of time halfway in.

who is taking a test this Dec?
are there any Australian peeps in here?

I am Australian I won't be able to take the test this year annoyingly. I really wish it was offered twice a year :/

 

[Resilient]

If you haven't taken the test before I really recommend doing practice tests not only to check your level but also to familiarise yourself with the test situation. The first time I took N2 I lost a load of points in reading comprehension because I paced myself poorly and ran out of time halfway in.



I am Australian I won't be able to take the test this year annoyingly. I really wish it was offered twice a year :/

hey that's awesome! aside from some old High School friends and my tutor + some friends in Japan, I don't know anybody else around here studying :| what's it like for you?

I really wish the test was 2 times here as well, I would take N3 mid next year if it were the case. ah well.

 

[urfe]

Looks like my company will pay for business Japanese lessons and perhaps s translation course. With that, and N1 study, I hope I can really improve by next year. Did a practice test, and was horrible. Just got to study more, read more newspapers, articles, stories.

Thinking after N1 I'll do Jtest and aim for 800.

 

[Porcile]

After talking about with my tutor, and also some personal consideration, I've decided not to take a test this year. I really want to get a solid foundation of basics before I start worrying about tests. I figured the time I spent revising test material could be better spent writing posts on Lang-8, writing kanji, practicing speaking and generally just using the things I know to greater effect. I'm also not a big believer in tests and testing culture, so I'm not sure what I'd gain from taking a test this early. I can always sign up for the July one so there's not too much harm in missing December.

Also, after taking the summer off my freelance work, I need to get back into that. Although, it's actually quite nice, even if I am broke.

@ Resilient - I just need to set up a HelloTalk account, and then I should be on there. I'm very lazy when it comes to anything to do with my phone and signing up for things!

 

[Stalk]

Been studying for the last 5 months, my reading isn't bad. I still have a fair bit of grammar to pick up but I decided to sign up for N5 in December (UK) to dip my toes in. Mostly been using textfugu / wanikani / jisho / lang-8 and anki to study. My writing sucks but hey.

Has been nice feeling progress though, mostly through games I own or recognising kanji / being able to read some basic sentences. Planning to head over next summer to Japan so I'm hoping to at least be able to talk like a 5 year at the very least haha.

 

[blurr]

I hit 500 kanji recently

After 4 years T^T

 

[shanshan310]

To be honest, I don't think the JLPT is a really great measurement of language ability anyway. It doesn't test output (speaking or writing) at all. It's only really worth getting if you want to use it to apply for a job or entry into a Japanese university. In my opinion anyway. Other than that, I guess it's a nice confidence boost as well, which is reason enough to take

hey that's awesome! aside from some old High School friends and my tutor + some friends in Japan, I don't know anybody else around here studying :| what's it like for you?

I really wish the test was 2 times here as well, I would take N3 mid next year if it were the case. ah well.

I joined my university Japanese club, so I was able to meet a lot of people studying that way. Most of them have graduated and moved to Japan now though >< I think there are a couple of clubs outside uni too, maybe there are some in your area !

Maybe we can write to them and petition of a mid year test. Even if it was only offered in one city, I wouldn't mind commuting for it.

 

[Kurita]

I kinda agree. I'm mostly taking it cause my school wants the students to have N2 to send them to Japanese universities.