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[Aizo]

Are you all in 2 test per year countries?

I wasn't a month and a half ago, but now I'm back in Japan.

I kinda agree. I'm mostly taking it cause my school wants the students to have N2 to send them to Japanese universities.

Oh! Are you definitely going abroad, then? You definitely should. Does that mean your university sends you to Japanese universities to take classes in Japanese? That would be very awesome for you!

 

[Resilient]

I figure I may as well turn it into a qualification, because all up the tests will cost around $300 to get the certification you need to say you can speak Japanese.

as with any exam/test, you can study/cram for it and easily pass to get the qualification, doesn't mean you retained it. but, if you aren't lazy + actually enjoy learning, if you follow the (loose) course outline and study frequently, what you learn as you study will be reinforced and generally help for whatever you use Japanese for (work, Uni, TV, games etc).

 

[TheSporkWithin]

I figure I may as well turn it into a qualification, because all up the tests will cost around $300 to get the certification you need to say you can speak Japanese.

as with any exam/test, you can study/cram for it and easily pass to get the qualification, doesn't mean you retained it. but, if you aren't lazy + actually enjoy learning, if you follow the (loose) course outline and study frequently, what you learn as you study will be reinforced and generally help for whatever you use Japanese for (work, Uni, TV, games etc).

Yes and no. They're not cumulative, you don't need to take them all. Theoretically you could just study up and then only take the N1 and pass your first time (though that's not really likely).

As for the studying being useful for whatever you do, that's halfway true. It will be useful, but it may cause you to prioritize things in different ways. That's why I'm currently waffling about whether to push for the N2.

Lately I've found a real groove in terms of my own studies. I've been playing text-heavy games (逆転裁判 series, Steins;Gate) and reading seinen comics (Billy Bat, おやすみプンプ&#12531 and middle-school level novels (ぼくらの七日間戦争, キノの&#26053. Every time I find a word I don't know I put it in an Anki deck for that media type (used to be per-book/game, but the frequency of new words has been dropping) along with the context it appeared in, and generate two cards for it (J-E and E-J). My reading ability has increased dramatically in the past few months, and my "passive vocabulary" (words I can recognize and understand in reading or when someone says them, but probably have a hard time remembering if I want to use them in conversation) has increased by several thousand words, while my active vocabulary has also increased a great deal.

The thing is, they aren't words that are likely to be on the N2 test (though they probably are on the potential list for the N1). If I were to shift to cramming for the N2 it would cut into my time for this method, which is really working for me. I'd be studying vocabulary off of a list, rather than learning in context, and I know it would put a damper on my enthusiasm. I don't know if that tradeoff is worth it for me right now.

I am a little bit curious how I'd do if I just kept doing what I'm doing until the test date and then gave it a shot without formally studying vocab lists, just brushing up with grammar drills beforehand. But I'm not sure if that's worth ５５００円.

 

[Resilient]

Yes and no. They're not cumulative, you don't need to take them all. Theoretically you could just study up and then only take the N1 and pass your first time (though that's not really likely).

As for the studying being useful for whatever you do, that's halfway true. It will be useful, but it may cause you to prioritize things in different ways. That's why I'm currently waffling about whether to push for the N2.

Lately I've found a real groove in terms of my own studies. I've been playing text-heavy games (逆転裁判 series, Steins;Gate) and reading seinen comics (Billy Bat, おやすみプンプ&#12531 and middle-school level novels (ぼくらの七日間戦争, キノの&#26053. Every time I find a word I don't know I put it in an Anki deck for that media type (used to be per-book/game, but the frequency of new words has been dropping) along with the context it appeared in, and generate two cards for it (J-E and E-J). My reading ability has increased dramatically in the past few months, and my "passive vocabulary" (words I can recognize and understand in reading or when someone says them, but probably have a hard time remembering if I want to use them in conversation) has increased by several thousand words, while my active vocabulary has also increased a great deal.

The thing is, they aren't words that are likely to be on the N2 test (though they probably are on the potential list for the N1). If I were to shift to cramming for the N2 it would cut into my time for this method, which is really working for me. I'd be studying vocabulary off of a list, rather than learning in context, and I know it would put a damper on my enthusiasm. I don't know if that tradeoff is worth it for me right now.

I am a little bit curious how I'd do if I just kept doing what I'm doing until the test date and then gave it a shot without formally studying vocab lists, just brushing up with grammar drills beforehand. But I'm not sure if that's worth ５５００円.

yeah this is a pretty good way to learn words, and when i was doing it for a time i found that i was learning a lot of new words and recognising the shiz out of them. from my experience, N4/N3 learning is for building your grammar foundations. can't say how well it will be for general vocab but i think i agree with everything you said - a lot of the words you learn and use often probably won't be on those tests.

 

[Kurita]

Oh! Are you definitely going abroad, then? You definitely should. Does that mean your university sends you to Japanese universities to take classes in Japanese? That would be very awesome for you!

Well, I went to a Japanese school in Tokyo in August and I really enjoyed the month I spent there so yeah. Thing is it'll be pretty tough to secure a spot since they can only send 22 students and we're 150 in THIRD YEAR alone. And second years can also apply, they're 300... :lol
Good luck to me I guess.

My GF also wants to study in Japan next year (we're not in the same university in France though) so it'd be pretty great to go together...

 

[KanameYuuki]

Since I'm starting to learn Japanese from the very beginning, should I start to focus on learning a good bunch of kanjis or should I just wait until I get familiarized a bit with the language in general?

And what srs should I use for my android phone and pc?

 

[Resilient]

Since I'm starting to learn Japanese from the very beginning, should I start to focus on learning a good bunch of kanjis or should I just wait until I get familiarized a bit with the language in general?

And what srs should I use for my android phone and pc?

Good stuff! It's important you build a strong foundation before you jump into more complicated stuff. I can't recommend any beginner books. But I will advise the following:

1. Learn Hiragana,
2. And then learn Katakana.
You wanna become familiar with the easy stuff first, and this will help you build confidence.

3. Start becoming familiar with general, basic stuff. Counting, days, months, year, time words. Then move on to frequency words. Become familiar with the basic vocabulary. Stuff that you will see often.

4. Begin learning basic verbs, like for eating, drinking, coming and going, sleeping, waking up. Doing things. For these, you want to be learning the dictionary forms, "-masu" verbs, as in verbs ending with "masu".

5. From there, you'll begin to see plain form of verbs, and want to start learning basic grammar patterns.

6. Get on to the "Te" form of verbs as soon as you feel confident and have built a strong understanding of 1-5.

I don't recommend inundating yourself with Kanji early on because learning Kanji is a long process, and it's going to take up valuable brain real estate for the more important, early stuff. Having said that I'm sure as you are studying you will begin seeing kanji for the easy stuff like eating, drinking verbs.

You got a long road ahead but it's rewarding. If anybody can recommend a good book for starting at the bottom, chime in!

 

[Russ T]

It's now the weekend after I've decided I'm going to start learning Japanese again, so it's time to get started in earnest.

I see people talking about Anki. Is there a good resource for pre-built decks? I've used it in the past and built my own, but since I'm basically probably going to start at the beginning again, I figure I might as well use something pre-built, and then make my own once I feel I've refreshed my memory enough to even need to do that. I'm talking numbers, days, etc. (Basically what Resilient just talked about.)

I have a decent recollection of all the hiragana and katakana, although I'm hot trash at any kanji I might have ever known.

4. Begin learning basic verbs, like for eating, drinking, coming and going, sleeping, waking up. Doing things. For these, you want to be learning the dictionary forms, "-masu" verbs, as in verbs ending with "masu".

Interesting, when I learned Japanese, "-ru" was our dictionary form. Like, taberu was "eat", and tabemasu was "is eating" (obviously normally preceded by a subject). Unless my memory is terrible, I'm fairly certain that's how I learned it.

Obviously different teachers (be it books or people) teach the language differently, so I'm not surprised there's some discrepancy.

...

At any rate, for the time being, I guess I should... I don't know what to do. D: If I were at the beginning, it'd be easy to just follow "complete beginner" advice. Maybe I should just do that anyway, and breeze through it until I have trouble. Hmmm.

This is the workbook series I used when taking Japanese in college: http://www.amazon.com/dp/4789009637/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Should I just rebuy that, or are there better learning materials? The very first post in this thread talks about some "heisig" learning method, which I don't know what that is. I guess maybe I should look that up? Ahhh. I'm already overwhelmed, haha.

 

[Porcile]

I started from absolute zero knowledge a few months ago. I use the Japanese From Zero series which as the title suggests is for learners who have no previous Japanese knowledge. I think people think it's a series designed for kids or something because of the faux-manga cover art, but it's really for anyone starting from nothing, and that could be an adult or a teenager etc

The book series has an integrated work book (you need a work book no matter what IMO) and the website has accompanying sound files and 500+ videos. I like it quite a lot, but it gets a bit dry, like all books will tbh. You can supplement it with other stuff, and that's where the videos come in quite handy. The guy who wrote it does most of the videos, and he is amazing at Japanese and generally a really cool guy with a perfect personality for teaching. I think that comes off in his books. You can tell he spent a lot of time breaking down grammer into very practical and easy to understand terms.

 

[Jintor]

Interesting, when I learned Japanese, "-ru" was our dictionary form. Like, taberu was "eat", and tabemasu was "is eating" (obviously normally preceded by a subject). Unless my memory is terrible, I'm fairly certain that's how I learned it.

Obviously different teachers (be it books or people) teach the language differently, so I'm not surprised there's some discrepancy.

I learned ru is dictionary and masu is just more polite. They're both "to eat" though.

 

[Russ T]

I learned ru is dictionary and masu is just more polite. They're both "to eat" though.

Yeah, I guess it's just in my head from when I learned them, I only ever used -masu in sentences, so I associated it with actually performing the act instead of the standard definition.

 

[KanameYuuki]

I'm almost familiarized with Hiragana but there is something about Katakana that makes it hard to remember, I'll try to focus on it again before I continue with my books.

 

[Resilient]

Read as much Japanese text as you can to make Katakana stick, it was way harder to stick than hiragana was for me.

And yeah I'm a dumbass. Masu is polite form, ru is dictionary.

Why is masu just "polite" form when volitional, potential, negative and plain (dictionary) all change their vowel sound 「あいうえお」from the masu verb stem? Waiting for a semi-pro to come in and school me

 

[Desmond]

Anyone else apply for the N1? Kill me now.

 

[GSR]

Anyone else apply for the N1? Kill me now.

ようこそ、地獄へ

(I did as well)

 

[Desmond]

ようこそ、地獄へ

(I did as well)

I'm using the 日本語まとめ range of textbooks. Nothing is stocking in my head lol.

I only passed N2 last July lol. Vocabulary was my weakest spot though. Got full marks on listening lol

 

[urfe]

Anyone else apply for the N1? Kill me now.

Yup. Well, I will. Can't afford to fail again.

 

[upandaway]

Didn't know JLPT prices are different between countries, it's around $25 here for all levels.

 

[Desmond]

Didn't know JLPT prices are different between countries, it's around $25 here for all levels.

€75 here. :O

 

[Kurita]

Didn't know JLPT prices are different between countries, it's around $25 here for all levels.

80 euros for N1 and N2
70 for the others

And I'm also taking TOEIC in November, 130 euros OTL

 

[Jintor]

don't know whether to go for n4 or shoot for n3... I'm fairly certain I could do n4 with average effort or totally go bonkers nuts and try for n3 (since I've been self-learning I'm kind of all over the place with vocab)

 

[Resilient]

don't know whether to go for n4 or shoot for n3... I'm fairly certain I could do n4 with average effort or totally go bonkers nuts and try for n3 (since I've been self-learning I'm kind of all over the place with vocab)

Don't you live in Japan and work as a JET? Do N3. I can only imagine how easy it would be pass it brings able to work and study with the language daily.

 

[Grep]

Didn't know JLPT prices are different between countries, it's around $25 here for all levels.

Where exactly?

It seems that prices vary from country to country.

 

[Jintor]

Don't you live in Japan and work as a JET? Do N3. I can only imagine how easy it would be pass it brings able to work and study with the language daily.

I'll poke at some practice tests I guess.

This is unrelated but I'm mad pissed I missed being able to pick up some concert tickets I had my eye on. Sold out almost immediately :T

 

[Resilient]

How does one study when there is MGS V Jintor? I have done nothing for the last 2 weeks except read a book lol I'm lazy as fk right now. Haven't been doing any decks either. Shieet.

 

[The English Conquistador]

Yo guys, just wondering, what's the best way to go about learning Japanese in London? I'm looking to do a course.

Thanks!

 

[Aizo]

And I'm also taking TOEIC in November, 130 euros OTL

Your English is phenomenal, so I think you'll do very well.
If you have any questions about anything syntax related, please message me!

 

[Jintor]

How does one study when there is MGS V Jintor? I have done nothing for the last 2 weeks except read a book lol I'm lazy as fk right now. Haven't been doing any decks either. Shieet.

Man the only thing I do is my decks haha. Mainly out of fear. I have like 350 cards a day

 

[upandaway]

Where exactly?

It seems that prices vary from country to country.

Israel, lucky that apparently it's really cheap here. Now if only it was in more locations though

 

[RangerBAD]

How does one study when there is MGS V Jintor? I have done nothing for the last 2 weeks except read a book lol I'm lazy as fk right now. Haven't been doing any decks either. Shieet.

I'm doing my everyday stuff still with MGSV in my PS4, but I haven't got to play it that much.

 

[Kilrogg]

I'm looking for ways to reduce my accent. It's pretty good right now - I'm blessed with a good ear for languages - but ultimately I want to have a perfect accent, and I feel I need a coach of some sort to help me master it.

Do you guys know any teachers, coaches, programs and/or methods for that? I've looked it up on Google (both in English and Japanese), but no luck so far.

 

[Splash Wave]

What are considered some of the better English to Japanese dictionaries? My girlfriend and I will be living in Japan for the next three months, and I'm constantly finding pretty major blindspots in my vocabulary. I'd love to have a book on hand that I can use to prepare for various stores and restaurants.

 

[Nocebo]

What are considered some of the better English to Japanese dictionaries? My girlfriend and I will be living in Japan for the next three months, and I'm constantly finding pretty major blindspots in my vocabulary. I'd love to have a book on hand that I can use to prepare for various stores and restaurants.

Do you have a smart phone? Why not use that? You can buy a datacard so you have internet connectivity too. Looking up something on your smartphone will be way faster than looking it up in a book. You'll even be able to use the google translate app with which you can point your phone's camera at some text, hit a button and get a translation that way.

I use the dictionary "imiwa?" on iPhone.

 

[Jintor]

Yeah, I use JED. It's okay.

If anybody knows a draw kanji recogniser app for android that has compound word functionality let me know. Looking stuff up without furigana is a right pain in the arse.

 

[Splash Wave]

Do you have a smart phone? Why not use that? You can buy a datacard so you have internet connectivity too. Looking up something on your smartphone will be way faster than looking it up in a book. You'll even be able to use the google translate app with which you can point your phone's camera at some text, hit a button and get a translation that way.

I use the dictionary "imiwa?" on iPhone.

I want a book because I don't have data with my phone.

And I just like having a book.

 

[shanshan310]

Yeah, I use JED. It's okay.

If anybody knows a draw kanji recogniser app for android that has compound word functionality let me know. Looking stuff up without furigana is a right pain in the arse.

There's a good ds game that is just a dictionary that allows you to draw kanji. I'm on my phone right now but when I get home I can double check what it's called. If you don't mind spending that much money.

 

[blurr]

Yeah, I use JED. It's okay.

If anybody knows a draw kanji recogniser app for android that has compound word functionality let me know. Looking stuff up without furigana is a right pain in the arse.

I use Akebi on Android for drawing Kanji. You can also search compound words relatively easily than JED. It's also a decent dictionary but I always end up picking JED for looking up just because it's slightly quicker.

Can anyone suggest a light novel for someone studying N3 level stuff? I'm trying to read Oregairu LN but I'm hitting a speed breaker at every other sentence thanks to Kanji.

 

[Nocebo]

I want a book because I don't have data with my phone.

And I just like having a book.

That's why I said you can get a data card. We bought some data sim cards from Amazon.co.jp before we went this year. It also has the added benefit of being able to use google maps, Line etc. etc anywhere. It's also less baggage... But if you prefer a book, I have no ideas.

 

[data]

I want a book because I don't have data with my phone.

And I just like having a book.

Imiwa is offline, though

 

[Resilient]

Japanese Flash uses EU-dict and it's also offline, though it's iPhone only I believe. they are, in every way, better than a physical dictionary. you can search by english, romaji or kana, and it even gives you example sentences to get a better understand of it's use. you'd be foolish to depend on a physical dictionary in 2015 when you have an amazing resource at your fingertips..

 

[Jintor]

JED, also offline

thanks for recommend, I'll check it out.

There's a good ds game that is just a dictionary that allows you to draw kanji. I'm on my phone right now but when I get home I can double check what it's called. If you don't mind spending that much money.

i actually already have it. it's worthless though because i 100% cannot pull out a nintendo ds at school (or anywhere really)

I mean I can't pull out my phone either but it's easier to if I really need to in the staffroom etc

 

[Nocebo]

Japanese Flash uses EU-dict and it's also offline, though it's iPhone only I believe. they are, in every way, better than a physical dictionary. you can search by english, romaji or kana, and it even gives you example sentences to get a better understand of it's use. you'd be foolish to depend on a physical dictionary in 2015 when you have an amazing resource at your fingertips..

Yes, a dictionary on an electronic device is just so much more convenient. Aside from the translation of the word you get the meaning and readings of the kanji, the radicals and can instantly look up any other words containing the kanji. Usually the dictionary will track a history of your searches so it's easy to find a word you looked up before.

I can imagine you'd want to look up words on the spot too. Which is much easier with an electronic dictionary. It will also be less weight to carry around.

JED, also offline

thanks for recommend, I'll check it out.



i actually already have it. it's worthless though because i 100% cannot pull out a nintendo ds at school (or anywhere really)

I mean I can't pull out my phone either but it's easier to if I really need to in the staffroom etc

Why can't you pull out your phone? What about a Japanese electronic dictionary device?

 

[TheSporkWithin]

i actually already have it. it's worthless though because i 100% cannot pull out a nintendo ds at school (or anywhere really)

I mean I can't pull out my phone either but it's easier to if I really need to in the staffroom etc

That's why I bought a second-hand 電子辞書 for 6000 yen. Check your local recycle shops!

Why can't you pull out your phone? What about a Japanese electronic dictionary device?

Because you are immediately swarmed by children asking you if you play モンスト, and trying to check out your homescreen アプリ.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Why can't you pull out your phone? What about a Japanese electronic dictionary device?

Dedicated device still wins out. I admit I'm not terribly familiar with dictionary applications on smartphones, but I doubt any of them match the functionality of a dedicated dictionary device.

 

[urfe]

Dedicated device still wins out. I admit I'm not terribly familiar with dictionary applications on smartphones, but I doubt any of them match the functionality of a dedicated dictionary device.

I spent over 20,000 yen on a electronic dictionary only to always use Imiwa. Truly is an amazing app.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I spent over 20,000 yen on a electronic dictionary only to always use Imiwa. Truly is an amazing app.

Seems really cool and well-made, especially considering that it's free, but it doesn't look like it has a J -> J dictionary, which I think is crucial once you get to an intermediate level or start reading books.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Seems really cool and well-made, especially considering that it's free, but it doesn't look like it has a J -> J dictionary, which I think is crucial once you get to an intermediate level or start reading books.

I use the 大辞林 app (¥2600). It's quite nice and offers jump lookups and even lets you jump between it and The Wisdom (¥2900).

If I had a nicer 電子辞書 I might prefer using it to them, but I have a Sharp model from 2010 that I picked up on the cheap. It's good to have for times when it's not appropriate to whip out an iPhone, but the iPhone is definitely easier and offers essentially the same functionality for me. (for medical and law dictionaries and such, I'm pretty sure the high-end 電子辞書 are still the best choice)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I use the 大辞林 app (¥2600). It's quite nice and offers jump lookups and even lets you jump between it and The Wisdom (¥2900).

If I had a nicer 電子辞書 I might prefer using it to them, but I have a Sharp model from 2010 that I picked up on the cheap. It's good to have for times when it's not appropriate to whip out an iPhone, but the iPhone is definitely easier and offers essentially the same functionality for me. (for medical and law dictionaries and such, I'm pretty sure the high-end 電子辞書 are still the best choice)

Do those apps have the ability to highlight words within the app and jump to their definitions? That "jump" function was honestly one of the things I used most when I studied hardcore a long time ago. It's absolutely key when you first start using a J -> J dictionary, too, since you're inevitably going to encounter lots of words you don't understand within the definition.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Do those apps have the ability to highlight words within the app and jump to their definitions? That "jump" function was honestly one of the things I used most when I studied hardcore a long time ago. It's absolutely key when you first start using a J -> J dictionary, too, since you're inevitably going to encounter lots of words you don't understand within the definition.

Yeah, I mentioned the jump lookups in that post. It's great, and touch-highlighting is much faster than dealing with the buttons on my Sharp Brain.

I don't use The Wisdom much unless I'm trying to go E -> J when talking with coworkers or writing, but I use the 大辞林 app all the time.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yeah, I mentioned the jump lookups in that post. It's great, and touch-highlighting is much faster than dealing with the buttons on my Sharp Brain.

I don't use The Wisdom much unless I'm trying to go E -> J when talking with coworkers or writing, but I use the 大辞林 app all the time.

I thought you were implying that it can jump to The Wisdom dictionary for an English definition.

So, on this page shown on iTunes, you could tap and highlight, for example, "大正期" to jump to its definition? What about something like "結った"? Would it be able to correctly identify it as 結う（ゆう） and let you jump to that word's definition?

Sorry for the question barrage, but I don't want to spend $20+ to find out it doesn't have the functionality I want.