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[TheSporkWithin]

I'm not sure if it's a local thing, but ありがとうございました is more "ingratiating" here. Like if ありがとう is "thanks" and ありがとうございます is "thank you very much" then ありがとうございました is "thank you so much, I really appreciate it!" Of course service people need to say it as part of their script, but I hear it between coworkers fairly often and it's usually when someone is making a special show of the gratitude or appreciation.

In that respect, saying it back to the service staff definitely strikes me as strange. Just ありがとう is plenty, and most Japanese people I see don't even say that, they just take their stuff and leave.

 

[Kurita]

getting caught in an infinite politeness loop is a real doozy.　気おつけてね～

を* Jintor-kun

 

[Kansoku]

I'm losing my motivation right now =/
I used to study in the morning everyday, but I recently got an internship and now I barely have time on weekdays (Internship in the morning, college classes in the afternoon, homework at night). I've been struggling to keep a steady study flow, since I can only study on weekends, and not doing a daily study has been shaking things up =/

 

[Kilrogg]

I'm not sure if it's a local thing, but ありがとうございました is more "ingratiating" here. Like if ありがとう is "thanks" and ありがとうございます is "thank you very much" then ありがとうございました is "thank you so much, I really appreciate it!" Of course service people need to say it as part of their script, but I hear it between coworkers fairly often and it's usually when someone is making a special show of the gratitude or appreciation.

In that respect, saying it back to the service staff definitely strikes me as strange. Just ありがとう is plenty, and most Japanese people I see don't even say that, they just take their stuff and leave.

The way a Japanese person explained it to me once, saying "thank you" to a store clerk when, say, they're giving you change, almost makes it look like they actually gave you back more money than you expected and you're thanking them for it lol.

I guess it's just this mentality of treating your job and the customer as something natural there. You shouldn't thank them cause they're just doing their job. They should thank you cause you're the one kind enough to help their business run. If they go out of their way to help you in a way that's not expected, then you can thank them.

 

[Splash Wave]

I don't know about such a guide, but I wouldn't say ありがとうございました. It's just not a cultural thing to say thanks to store clerks for just doing their job. Even saying good bye would be weird. At best, you can say どうも I guess, which I do on occasion, or just give them a nod. Bitc- I mean Japanese people love nods.

Fair enough! I must have overheard someone saying it and wrongly assumed it was normal.

Another quick question: what's the simplest way to ask someone if I can take their picture? Gesturing to my camera seems to work, but I'd rather have something to say.

edit: I've gotten some exceptional service here, so I'll save my more appreciative phrases for those situations.

 

[Jintor]

写真を撮ってもいいですか I think?

写真 ＝　しゃ.しん：picture/photo
撮る ＝ とる = to snapshot, to take a picture
～て　も　いい　です = is good
か　＝ question form

写真を撮って　もいいですか？
[taking a picture] [is okay?]

Just a guess... I don't know if there's an accepted phrase.

 

[AmethystEnd]

写真を撮ってもいいですか I think?

写真 ＝　しゃ.しん：picture/photo
撮る ＝ とる = to snapshot, to take a picture
～て　も　いい　です = is good
か　＝ question form

写真を撮って　もいいですか？
[taking a picture] [is okay?]

Just a guess... I don't know if there's an accepted phrase.

This would be my answer as well.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

My inclination would be to "soften" it with でしょう but I'm not sure if that's a mistake or changes the meaning/makes it nonsense. 写真を撮ってもいいでしょうか？

I've asked stuff like this many times and nobody's ever corrected me, but that doesn't mean it's actually correct.

 

[AmethystEnd]

My inclination would be to "soften" it with でしょう but I'm not sure if that's a mistake or changes the meaning/makes it nonsense. 写真を撮ってもいいでしょうか？

I've asked stuff like this many times and nobody's ever corrected me, but that doesn't mean it's actually correct.

That's a good point too. I really need to think more about "is this culturally appropriate?" instead of just "is this grammatically correct?" now that the grammar part is coming more naturally.

 

[Aizo]

Fair enough! I must have overheard someone saying it and wrongly assumed it was normal.

Another quick question: what's the simplest way to ask someone if I can take their picture? Gesturing to my camera seems to work, but I'd rather have something to say.

edit: I've gotten some exceptional service here, so I'll save my more appreciative phrases for those situations.

「すみません、写真（しゃしん）を撮（と）ってもらっていいですか？」is pretty standard, and it's pretty explicit, so they won't misunderstand and think you want to take a picture of them.

 

[AmethystEnd]

「すみません、写真（しゃしん）を撮（と）ってもらっていいですか？」is pretty standard, and it's pretty explicit, so they won't misunderstand and think you want to take a picture of them.

Another quick question: what's the simplest way to ask someone if I can take their picture? Gesturing to my camera seems to work, but I'd rather have something to say.

It sounds like he does want to take a picture of them, though. Maybe he means in a situation with cosplayers or something?

 

[Aizo]

It sounds like he does want to take a picture of them, though. Maybe he means in a situation with cosplayers or something?

Oops. In that case, ignore my post.

 

[Sitrus]

This would be my answer as well.

Same here, used that sentence several times during Comiket myself. As mentioned, でしょうか is an option if you want to sound less direct.

 

[Kurita]

Oh god, reading Rakugo is a painful experience. All that keigo/words we don't really use anymore. Why did I take literature classes.

 

[shanshan310]

I would personally never just say ありがとう like that, even just to conbini staff. In my early days of studying my host family just really drilled it into me that it was 乱暴すぎ.

Please be careful! Even though " ありがとうございます" is translated as "thank you very much" it's used much more frequently than the English equivalent.

 

[Aizo]

Oh god, reading Rakugo is a painful experience. All that keigo/words we don't really use anymore. Why did I take literature classes.

That's awesome. Your Japanese program sounds great!

 

[Darksol]

I would personally never just say ありがとう like that, even just to conbini staff. In my early days of studying my host family just really drilled it into me that it was 乱暴すぎ.

Please be careful! Even though " ありがとうございます" is translated as "thank you very much" it's used much more frequently than the English equivalent.

I always err on the side of caution too. I'd rather be seen as an unnecessarily polite foreigner than an overly familiar one.

 

[Resilient]

I would personally never just say ありがとう like that, even just to conbini staff. In my early days of studying my host family just really drilled it into me that it was 乱暴すぎ.

Please be careful! Even though " ありがとうございます" is translated as "thank you very much" it's used much more frequently than the English equivalent.

they considered it rude? how come?

 

[urfe]

they considered it rude? how come?

I think it could sound condescending, or that it would make certain implications about the relationship. Perhaps seeing it as "thanks buddy!"?

ありがとうございます, どうも, a nod, or maybe even an あーざっす I would say before ありがとう.

But I'm no expert.

 

[Resilient]

that feel when you suddenly realise everybody who says ありがとう to you was really just being condescending..

goodbye cruel

Spoiler

anime

world

 

[Gacha-pin]

I would personally never just say ありがとう like that, even just to conbini staff. In my early days of studying my host family just really drilled it into me that it was 乱暴すぎ.

Please be careful! Even though " ありがとうございます" is translated as "thank you very much" it's used much more frequently than the English equivalent.

I suppose it was becuase of your age. The person you would say ありがとう to probably be older than you in most situations.

 

[Resilient]

I suppose it was becuase of your age. The person you would say ありがとう to probably be older than you in most situations.

this makes sense. all of my japanese friends generally use ありがとう in text messages or face to face speaking, and we are about the same age, nobody has ever pulled me up on it. the age thing makes sense though!

 

[AmethystEnd]

this makes sense. all of my japanese friends generally use ありがとう in text messages or face to face speaking, and we are about the same age, nobody has ever pulled me up on it. the age thing makes sense though!

Those are your friends, though, so ありがとう should be fine assuming you've achieved a certain level of intimacy with them (enough to use casual speech, etc). If you're still using long form with them though, then yes, stick to ありがとうございます.

shanshan was saying that his/her host family considered just saying ありがとう to the staff of stores/restaurants/etc to be rude, not personal acquaintances.

 

[shanshan310]

Those are your friends, though, so ありがとう should be fine assuming you've achieved a certain level of intimacy with them (enough to use casual speech, etc). If you're still using long form with them though, then yes, stick to ありがとうございます.

shanshan was saying that his/her host family considered just saying ありがとう to the staff of stores/restaurants/etc to be rude, not personal acquaintances.

Exactly

You should try to avoid using informal language with people other than friends or aquaintences of a similar age, or younger than you. I think most japanese people will forgive you for being a non native speaker, especially if you've just started studying, but it's a bad habit to get into and people (like my host family ) will get annoyed if you get to the stage where you should know better.

 

[urfe]

Exactly

You should try to avoid using informal language with people other than friends or aquaintences of a similar age, or younger than you. I think most japanese people will forgive you for being a non native speaker, especially if you've just started studying, but it's a bad habit to get into and people (like my host family ) will get annoyed if you get to the stage where you should know better.

While I agree, to play devil's advocate, in my experience some people seem especially strict on foreigners for following "rules" to a degree people actually don't.

In my office there's specific circumstances to use polite or casual speech, and speaking polite when it's not appropriate makes you seem stuck up. (I apparently seemed stuck up for the first little while.)

Drinking is then a whole different ballgame.

 

[shanshan310]

While I agree, to play devil's advocate, in my experience some people seem especially strict on foreigners for following "rules" to a degree people actually don't.

In my office there's specific circumstances to use polite or casual speech, and speaking polite when it's not appropriate makes you seem stuck up. (I apparently seemed stuck up for the first little while.)

Drinking is then a whole different ballgame.

Yeah, that can also be true. It's not a steadfast rule for sure.

 

[Kurita]

Managed to pass the test for Interpreting classes. 27 people took the test but we're just 15 now, and I know I barely got the passing grade.
Don't really know what to expect though, our teacher didn't explain what we were going to do... Just translations during two hours?
Guess I'll need to work more on my oral comprehension during my free time. I already listen to some radio programs/watch shows so that's a start. Also need to get a solid base regarding N2 grammar/vocabulary.

 

[Kilrogg]

Managed to pass the test for Interpreting classes. 27 people took the test but we're just 15 now, and I know I barely got the passing grade.
Don't really know what to expect though, our teacher didn't explain what we were going to do... Just translations during two hours?
Guess I'll need to work more on my oral comprehension during my free time. I already listen to some radio programs/watch shows so that's a start. Also need to get a solid base regarding N2 grammar/vocabulary.

Congrats, man! Depending on your teacher, it could either be super lenient (i.e. not real interpreting conditions at all, with multiple relistens and slower-paced speech) or super hard (real-world material, super precise translations and phrasing...). In both cases, it'll be hard, because interpretation is never easy. It's just a matter of how hard it is.

Good luck, you'll learn a lot from it I think.

 

[urfe]

Advanced business conversation class started last night. Lots of words expressions I don't know, and a heavy focus on intonation.

I'm in heaven, just can't let it get in the way with my N1 study.

 

[Kilrogg]

Advanced business conversation class started last night. Lots of words expressions I don't know, and a heavy focus on intonation.

I'm in heaven, just can't let it get in the way with my N1 study.

Nice! What kind of program are you taking that gives you "advanced business conversation" classes? Sounds like a great way to improve.

 

[urfe]

Nice! What kind of program are you taking that gives you "advanced business conversation" classes? Sounds like a great way to improve.

It's a part time course at night, so it's filled with foreigners working in Japanese offices. It helps with intonation and basic vocabulary building, as well as practice saying many phrases.

 

[RangerBAD]

I've always had trouble placing adverbs in my sentences. Naturally, I want to use it in front of a verb, but that's not always right. Does the placement change based on the type of adverb?

 

[TheSporkWithin]

I've always had trouble placing adverbs in my sentences. Naturally, I want to use it in front of a verb, but that's not always right. Does the placement change based on the type of adverb?

I'm not 100% sure without checking some kind of book, but my gut says that for "と adverbs" you can either put it right before the verb or right before the direct object, and for "に adverbs" it should come right before the verb.

 

[AmethystEnd]

I've always had trouble placing adverbs in my sentences. Naturally, I want to use it in front of a verb, but that's not always right. Does the placement change based on the type of adverb?

Off the top of my head, I'm having problems thinking of any adverbs where if the placement isn't in a specific spot, it's automatically incorrect. Like, going through some adverbs in my head right now, I can generally either place them at or near the start of the sentence, or next to the verb as you said and the meaning of the sentence doesn't really change.

I think of it a little like English adverb usage. Like:

The fox quickly jumped over the log.

Quickly, the fox jumped over the log.

Some examples in Japanese:

よく：　often;etc.

よくテニスをします。Often, play tennis.　

テニスをよくします。 often play tennis.
-----------
大抵（たいてい）：　usually;generally;etc

大抵週末は暇です。 Usually, [I'm] free on the weekend.

週末は大抵暇です。 On the weekend, [I'm] usually free.
-----------
本当に（ほんとうに）：　really; truly

[あなたは]本当に私のピザを食べなかったのか？Truly, [you] didn't eat my pizza?

[あなたは]私のピザを本当に食べなかったのか？[You] truly didn't eat my pizza?
-----------
早く（はやく）：quickly;early;etc

彼女は早く服を着替えた。Quickly, the girl changed her clothes.
彼女は服を早く着替えた。The girl quickly changed her clothes.

 

[Resilient]

Off the top of my head, I'm having problems thinking of any adverbs where if the placement isn't in a specific spot, it's automatically incorrect. Like, going through some adverbs in my head right now, I can generally either place them at or near the start of the sentence, or next to the verb as you said and the meaning of the sentence doesn't really change.

I think of it a little like English adverb usage. Like:

The fox quickly jumped over the log.

Quickly, the fox jumped over the log.

Some examples in Japanese:

よく：　often;etc.

よくテニスをします。Often, play tennis.　

テニスをよくします。 often play tennis.
-----------
大抵（たいてい）：　usually;generally;etc

大抵週末は暇です。 Usually, [I'm] free on the weekend.

週末は大抵暇です。 On the weekend, [I'm] usually free.
-----------
本当に（ほんとうに）：　really; truly

[あなたは]本当に私のピザを食べなかったのか？Truly, [you] didn't eat my pizza?

[あなたは]私のピザを本当に食べなかったのか？[You] truly didn't eat my pizza?
-----------
早く（はやく）：quickly;early;etc

彼女は早く服を着替えた。Quickly, the girl changed her clothes.
彼女は服を早く着替えた。The girl quickly changed her clothes.

Nice post. Maybe the crux of your problem RangerBAD is not remembering/understanding how adverbs work properly? If that sounds offensive, it's not meant to be - learning Japanese requires you to remember what adjectives, nouns, adverbs etc actually are in English/your native language before you can start properly using them in Japanese. Then you need to forget how to use them in that language and start applying them to Japanese. I have a few friends that made similar missteps like yours because they didn't know what adverbs actually were in English despite learning in JPN.

 

[urfe]

Nice post. Maybe the crux of your problem RangerBAD is not remembering/understanding how adverbs work properly? If that sounds offensive, it's not meant to be - learning Japanese requires you to remember what adjectives, nouns, adverbs etc actually are in English/your native language before you can start properly using them in Japanese. Then you need to forget how to use them in that language and start applying them to Japanese. I have a few friends that made similar missteps like yours because they didn't know what adverbs actually were in English despite learning in JPN.

I call them verb modifiers in my head. Makes it much easier. Noun modifiers and verb modifiers.

 

[RangerBAD]

Nice post. Maybe the crux of your problem RangerBAD is not remembering/understanding how adverbs work properly? If that sounds offensive, it's not meant to be - learning Japanese requires you to remember what adjectives, nouns, adverbs etc actually are in English/your native language before you can start properly using them in Japanese. Then you need to forget how to use them in that language and start applying them to Japanese. I have a few friends that made similar missteps like yours because they didn't know what adverbs actually were in English despite learning in JPN.

Adverbs describe the verb, just like how adjectives describe a noun. Generally, they go before verbs in English, but of course they don't have to. So, yes, I understand that.

 

[Jintor]

Is anybody really experienced with Anki? Anybody know if there's a way to make a card that not only makes a reverse card (or whatever) for its own deck, but also automatically adds another card based off the same data into a seperate deck?

 

[Resilient]

Adverbs describe the verb, just like how adjectives describe a noun. Generally, they go before verbs in English, but of course they don't have to. So, yes, I understand that.

then as urfe says, just think of them as modifiers and it should be easier to understand. like i said in the last half of my post:

Then you need to forget how to use them in that language and start applying them to Japanese.

 

[RangerBAD]

then as urfe says, just think of them as modifiers and it should be easier to understand. like i said in the last half of my post:

I just wanted to know if there was a set rule I didn't know about or hear everyone's opinion/experience on it and I got some opinions.

 

[Skinpop]

how would I say something like 'the "holy grail" of technology is artificial intelligence' in japanese? What I'm looking for is translating the expression "holy grail" in a way that makes sense to a native reader.

 

[Kurita]

至高の目標 (しこうのもくひょ&#12358 apparently (lit. "the supreme objective")

 

[Skinpop]

thanks, I'll look that up!

 

[Kurita]

Looking at an article using the expression
http://jp.techcrunch.com/2007/09/12/the-holy-grail-for-mobile-social-networks/
"モバイル版ソーシャルネットワーク至高の目標"and as you can see the URL use "holy grail" so I guess that's the appropriate expression.

 

[blurr]

Have any of you come across a J-drama called Nihonjin no Shiranai Nihongo, all episodes are on YouTube.

It's really good, very informative and fun, language requirement is upper beginner-intermediate level. I just watched episode 5, recommend watching it, do suggest some other J-drama for listening practice, I always end up watching anime with subs.

 

[RangerBAD]

Have any of you come across a J-drama called Nihonjin no Shiranai Nihongo, all episodes are on YouTube.

It's really good, very informative and fun, language requirement is upper beginner-intermediate level. I just watched episode 5, recommend watching it, do suggest some other J-drama for listening practice, I always end up watching anime with subs.

It has subs though.

 

[Nocebo]

Have any of you come across a J-drama called Nihonjin no Shiranai Nihongo, all episodes are on YouTube.

It's really good, very informative and fun, language requirement is upper beginner-intermediate level. I just watched episode 5, recommend watching it, do suggest some other J-drama for listening practice, I always end up watching anime with subs.

I have two books with comics in them called nihonjin no shiranai nihongo. They're pretty funny. I'll check out this drama too.

 

[blurr]

It has subs though.

I know it probably has, I'm just watching without subs on purpose

 

[Skinpop]

.

 

[RangerBAD]

I know it probably has, I'm just watching without subs on purpose

I found one with Chinese subs on top and Japanese subs on bottom.