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[shanshan310]

東京の近くにはどんな県がありますか

I don't know anything about prefectures near Tokyo. lol

There's something about saying 'どんな県' that just feels a little awkward, although the meaning is clear and the grammar is accurate.

I would probably say something like

東京の近くには何の県がありますか？or

東京の隣の県は / 東京の近くにある県はどのような県ですか？

You probably know more about the surrounding prefectures than you think! Considering a lot of things there are claimed by tokyo

 

[RangerBAD]

There's something about saying 'どんな県' that just feels a little awkward, although the meaning is clear and the grammar is accurate.

I would probably say something like

東京の近くには何の県がありますか？or

東京の隣の県は / 東京の近くにある県はどのような県ですか？

You probably know more about the surrounding prefectures than you think! Considering a lot of things there are claimed by tokyo

It's Tobira's sentence not mine. The funny thing is even if the question was in English, or requiring an English answer, I still wouldn't know what to write. I probably know more about the different parts of Tokyo. I sort of hate these kinds of questions. They have another about about Kyoto. Yeah, had they used 何 it would have been easier. It makes me feel like they want me to describe them, but maybe I'm supposed to take it as "what"?

 

[Jintor]

i'm fairly sure it just wants you to name the places

 

[Resilient]

Exactly this. A prime example of how one should not approach language study.

For sure. I got this skill beat into me when I worked in Japan straight out of college and was expected to take meeting minutes as the newbie on the team.

that's awesome. I'm gonna get there eventually. Were you writing out Kanji where you could, or just sticking to Kana for the sake of getting it down before it fell out of your ears?

 

[urfe]

how many people here can write Japanese as somebody is speaking it to them (transcribing) and do it well, using Kanji and Kana?

I can't. At work I do a mix of kanji, hiragana and English. It's really inefficient and looks very weird.

I wish I was better at taking notes (in any language honestly).

 

[Porcile]

I honestly think there's no point in memorizing the nuance in English. They all mean girl, and any nuance you would best understand by seeing how they're used in spoken and written word.

Exactly this. A prime example of how one should not approach language study.

lol. I know. Just having a bit of fun. For the record, the order was exactly the same.

 

[shanshan310]

I can't. At work I do a mix of kanji, hiragana and English. It's really inefficient and looks very weird.

I wish I was better at taking notes (in any language honestly).

from what my interpreter friends have told me, this seems to be basically how interpreters note take, but with numbers and pictures and little arrows everywhere too.

 

[RangerBAD]

So I was doing the reading part of the first Tobira chapter (it was a little hard) and so far I've ran into these sentences.

全体の大きさは、　アメリカの２５分の１、　オーストラリアの２１分の１ぐらいで、　ニュージーランドやイギリスと同じぐらいです。

Not sure what those underline parts are supposed to be. I get what they're trying to say, but not with any accuracy.

建物の形が白鷺という白い鳥が羽を広げて休んでいるように見えるので白鷺城　（白鷺城）　とも呼ばれています。

I get what they mean intrinsically, but I don't feel like I have a great hold on it.

 

[Jintor]

check the grammar section a bit ahead for the first part. But basically that first bit is how to do fractions in japanese.

as for the second section, it's talking about what a certain type of gable is called and why.

(I'm only like three chapters ahead of you lol)

 

[RangerBAD]

check the grammar section a bit ahead for the first part. But basically that first bit is how to do fractions in japanese.

as for the second section, it's talking about what a certain type of gable is called and why.

(I'm only like three chapters ahead of you lol)

Yeah, that's what it felt like. I wasn't sure if it would be answered later in the section or not. Yeah, it's shaped like a white heron spreading its wings, right?

Even if I caught up to you, the experience you have is way higher.

 

[Jintor]

eh, if there's one thing i've learnt from 'immersion' it's that it's worthless unless you have comprehensible input, that is, you can vaguely determine what is being talked about or what is going on and from there start to link things together so that next time you can build on that and so on.

in any case, you seem to be moving fast. it took me a year and a bit to even start tobira, although that's because i procrastinated on getting it off amazon

 

[Porcile]

Your practical ability is going to be far higher than someone who is at similar textbook level but doesn't get any real world speaking practice though.

 

[RangerBAD]

eh, if there's one thing i've learnt from 'immersion' it's that it's worthless unless you have comprehensible input, that is, you can vaguely determine what is being talked about or what is going on and from there start to link things together so that next time you can build on that and so on.

in any case, you seem to be moving fast. it took me a year and a bit to even start tobira, although that's because i procrastinated on getting it off amazon

Maybe I'm going too fast?

 

[Jintor]

Maybe I'm going too fast?

As long as you don't burn out and can keep the pace consistent anything is fine

 

[Owlowiscious]

With technology as it is I'm fine if I was able to type some kanas out and choose the correct kanji from the list shown to me

 

[RangerBAD]

Jintor (or others familiar with Tobira), after the dialogues is it just pair work up to the grammar section? If there is anyone that wants to do pair work on Skype, I might can manage that. I'm sure most people are past this book or are before it.

 

[go_straight]

Could anyone please help me to understand the grammar rules used in the phrase number 6?
I know the single words but I don't understand what's happening here.

 

[Zoe]

Could anyone please help me to understand the grammar rules used in the phrase number 6?
I know the single words but I don't understand what's happening here.

Well, I don't normally see it with the first comma, but "ka dou ka" is basically "whether".

"I still don't know whether I'll take the test."
or
"I still don't know if I'll take the test or not."

 

[go_straight]

Well, I don't normally see it with the first comma, but "ka dou ka" is basically "whether".

"I still don't know whether I'll take the test."
or
"I still don't know if I'll take the test or not."

Ah ok, it's very simple. Thanks.

 

[RangerBAD]

アパートは駅から近くて便利なだけじゃなくて、　家賃も安いから、　借りることにした。

だけでなく

Is there a negative conjugation there or is there any difference between だけじゃないく and だけでなく?

 

[GSR]

アパートは駅から近くて便利なだけじゃなくて、　家賃も安いから、　借りることにした。

だけでなく

Is there a negative conjugation there or is there any difference between だけじゃないく and だけでなく?

As far as I know だけでなく is just a bit more formal than だけじゃなく.

 

[Porcile]

That whole sentence is a bit beyond my level but that's dake janakute, not janaku.

 

[Kilrogg]

That whole sentence is a bit beyond my level but that's dake janakute, not janaku.

No. They're all correct. Getting rid of the "te" is another way of linking two clauses together.

 

[Porcile]

No. They're all correct. Getting rid of the "te" is another way of linking two clauses together.

Ah, ok. I've only seen じゃなくて as a linking word so far.

 

[Kilrogg]

Ah, ok. I've only seen じゃなくて as a linking word so far.

Getting rid of the "te" gives the sentence a more formal/written style. For the negative form, as I said you take the -te form, remove the -te ending, and voilà! However, the rule for the affirmative form is different: you have to take the -masu form and remove the -masu. For instance:
たべる becomes　たべます becomes　たべ
のむ　becomes のみます becomes　のみ
さがす becomes　さがします becomes　さがし
きく becomes　ききます　becomes きき
etc.

 

[urfe]

How's everyone's JLPT study going? (I'm taking N1)

I'm honestly not studying enough. I'm using Japanese in daily life, but not studying specific grammar patterns. I should probably start today and just go at it. I think grammar is the section I have to worry about the most.

Good luck to all!

 

[AmethystEnd]

I'm developing my listening as much as I possibly can living in Texas. Japanese is my minor but this is the last year of that and honestly class 3 times a week isn't enough. Going by self assessments using online resources and some research, I'm around N3 level at the moment but I don't have plans to take it just yet. After my Japanese class is over in May I'll still have a year of this degree left and I'll do more focused JLPT study.

 

[RangerBAD]

I'm developing my listening as much as I possibly can living in Texas. Japanese is my minor but this is the last year of that and honestly class 3 times a week isn't enough. Going by self assessments using online resources and some research, I'm around N3 level at the moment but I don't have plans to take it just yet. After my Japanese class is over in May I'll still have a year of this degree left and I'll do more focused JLPT study.

I live in Texas too, so I know what you mean.

 

[GSR]

How's everyone's JLPT study going? (I'm taking N1)

I'm honestly not studying enough. I'm using Japanese in daily life, but not studying specific grammar patterns. I should probably start today and just go at it. I think grammar is the section I have to worry about the most.

Good luck to all!

Neck-deep in Anki hell at the moment. Grammar and comprehension have always been my strong suit; it's vocab and kanji readings I stumble on. Also going for N1.

 

[shanshan310]

How's everyone's JLPT study going? (I'm taking N1)

I'm honestly not studying enough. I'm using Japanese in daily life, but not studying specific grammar patterns. I should probably start today and just go at it. I think grammar is the section I have to worry about the most.

Good luck to all!

Good luck! Have you taken JLPT before? I find it helps a lot to study the pattern of the test. Especially for reading where they reuse the same types of questions.

I really like this series: http://shop.whiterabbitjapan.com/products/jlpt-n1-comprehensive-exam-exercises-tettei-drill

I'm not taking it this year because I'm an idiot and booked an overseas trip over the test period but I'm studying to eventually take N1 next year.

I'm developing my listening as much as I possibly can living in Texas. Japanese is my minor but this is the last year of that and honestly class 3 times a week isn't enough. Going by self assessments using online resources and some research, I'm around N3 level at the moment but I don't have plans to take it just yet. After my Japanese class is over in May I'll still have a year of this degree left and I'll do more focused JLPT study.

Is there a Japanese club at your university or in your area? I remember going back to my hometown after living in Japan and freaking out that I wouldn't be able to get any practice but found that there were actually a lot of opportunities when I looked deeper

 

[AmethystEnd]

Is there a Japanese club at your university or in your area? I remember going back to my hometown after living in Japan and freaking out that I wouldn't be able to get any practice but found that there were actually a lot of opportunities when I looked deeper

Unfortunately, the "Japanese club" at my university just gets together to play smash bros. and watch anime.

It's populated by the kind of people who mix Japanese words into English sentences.

No thanks.

 

[Jintor]

Unfortunately, the "Japanese club" at my university just gets together to play smash bros. and watch anime.

It's populated by the kind of people who mix Japanese words into English sentences.

No thanks.

that's meccha kawaii, son

 

[AmethystEnd]

that's meccha kawaii, son

I did go to a couple meetings so I more or less know that you'd stump them with the "meccha", to be perfectly honest.

 

[urfe]

Neck-deep in Anki hell at the moment. Grammar and comprehension have always been my strong suit; it's vocab and kanji readings I stumble on. Also going for N1.

Vocab is also weak for me. I like to think kanji readings are okay, but ultimately it's very possible the test for be filled with words I can't pronounce. (Today at work I couldn't read 懲戒.)

I've honestly taken N1 three times, and while I only really studied for it once before (where I got zero on one section), it's quite embarrassing that I haven't passed it yet.

 

[Kurita]

How's everyone's JLPT study going? (I'm taking N1)

I'm honestly not studying enough. I'm using Japanese in daily life, but not studying specific grammar patterns. I should probably start today and just go at it. I think grammar is the section I have to worry about the most.

Good luck to all!

Taking N2
Didn't really have time to study grammar lately and I have a N2 grammar MCQ during Interpreting class (for some reason) on wednesday, ugh...
We had another MCQ a couple of weeks ago and the teacher sent us an e-mail saying that 9 students out of 15's results weren't great (I'm one of those students apparently). But that teacher has insanely high standards so if you have 3-4 errors it's the end of the world for her.

 

[Darksol]

I did go to a couple meetings so I more or less know that you'd stump them with the "meccha", to be perfectly honest.

Yep. I never had a Japanese option in high school or college and in retrospect, it saved me from clubs like those which may have put a damper on my desire to learn.

My girlfriend is a Japanese major, and she said any club she ever joined would be 90% otaku, 10% people who actually take measures to improve their language skills.

Not that there's anything wrong with otaku. I'm sure both my gf and I qualify as one, but at some point I find it a bit cringe worthy if someone never extends their learning beyond "sugoi!" "kawaii!" "baka!", etc.

It's fun to watch Japanese majors though. First year classes are full of casual otaku, but by the time year two rolls around that crowd is cut in half. By year three or four they're practically nonexistent.

 

[Kurita]

It's fun to watch Japanese majors though. First year classes are full of casual otaku, but by the time year two rolls around that crowd is cut in half. By year three or four they're practically nonexistent.

That's kinda true haha
Realizing that liking "random anime" doesn't make you interested in actually learning the language must be tough for some of them. Good riddance though, I'm a third year so it's good to have "serious" people.

 

[AmethystEnd]

It's fun to watch Japanese majors though. First year classes are full of casual otaku, but by the time year two rolls around that crowd is cut in half. By year three or four they're practically nonexistent.

No one in my class is majoring in Japanese, but yeah this is basically what happened. We had 30-ish people 2 years ago. Last year we had 20. Now we're down to 11 and only 4 of us know what's going on any more (and 2 of those 4 have Japanese families and are already fluent).

 

[Darksol]

That's kinda true haha
Realizing that liking "random anime" doesn't make you interested in actually learning the language must be tough for some of them. Good riddance though, I'm a third year so it's good to have "serious" people.

Pretty much verbatim what my gf has said to me, lol. I always assumed you were Japanese Are you studying in Japan, or abroad?

No one in my class is majoring in Japanese, but yeah this is basically what happened. We had 30-ish people 2 years ago. Last year we had 20. Now we're down to 11 and only 4 of us know what's going on any more (and 2 of those 4 have Japanese families and are already fluent).

Exactly. I find that the people who stick with it generally have a very good reason to do so. I think there needs to be some sort of goal or major motivation to keep our interest in learning a language.

It's the same thing I've seen for JLPT as well. When I did my N5 (in Toronto, Canada) there was about 200 of us writing and I'd say 3/4 of the population was white -- many of them wearing various anime or gaming shirts.

When I did the N4 the following year, there was about 100 of us writing, and this time, 3/4 of the people writing were East-Asian, and I saw nobody wearing anime or gaming clothing.

When I write the N3 or N2 I'll be doing it in Japan, so I'm interested to see what that'll be like (I expect mostly Chinese and Korean students looking to work in Japan, with a couple of oddballs like myself).

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Anyone in the U.S. taking the JLPT this year? The date (December 6th) really sneaked up on me even though I still haven't received my admission voucher... I should probably start studying pretty soon.

I've only taken the test once and it was back in 2005. I passed the JLPT Level 1, then, so I figured the 10-year anniversary would be fitting to update my certification to N1.

According to the website, you need only to score 100/180 (~56%) in order to pass. Thatt seems really low to me. I thought it was around 75% or so.

https://www.jlpt.jp/guideline/results.html

 

[RangerBAD]

紙はパルプからできる。

インドネシアは１７，５００ぐらいの島でできている。

この家はレンガでできている。

Why is pulp not specific, but brick is? Can から only go with できる instead of できている?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

紙はパルプからできる。

インドネシアは１７，５００ぐらいの島でできている。

この家はレンガでできている。

Why is pulp not specific, but brick is? Can から only go with できる instead of できている?

No. から and で are pretty interchangeable in all of those examples.

 

[urfe]

Anyone in the U.S. taking the JLPT this year? The date (December 6th) really sneaked up on me even though I still haven't received my admission voucher... I should probably start studying pretty soon.

I've only taken the test once and it was back in 2005. I passed the JLPT Level 1, then, so I figured the 10-year anniversary would be fitting to update my certification to N1.

According to the website, you need only to score 100/180 (~56%) in order to pass. Thatt seems really low to me. I thought it was around 75% or so.

https://www.jlpt.jp/guideline/results.html

It's not a percentage really. I'm not sure how it works, but it should say fairly clearly somewhere it's not a percentage.

 

[RangerBAD]

No. から and で are pretty interchangeable in all of those examples.

What about できている? That's also my question. To me they all seem to talk about a specific material or thing.

 

[I'm an expert]

Anyone in the U.S. taking the JLPT this year? The date (December 6th) really sneaked up on me even though I still haven't received my admission voucher... I should probably start studying pretty soon.

I've only taken the test once and it was back in 2005. I passed the JLPT Level 1, then, so I figured the 10-year anniversary would be fitting to update my certification to N1.

According to the website, you need only to score 100/180 (~56%) in order to pass. Thatt seems really low to me. I thought it was around 75% or so.

https://www.jlpt.jp/guideline/results.html

Update..? Is our jlpt1 some how obsolete? Isn't the test easier than when we took it? Not that I will ever need the cert again but is there something you plan on using it for?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Update..? Is our jlpt1 some how obsolete? Isn't the test easier than when we took it? Not that I will ever need the cert again but is there something you plan on using it for?

No, no real plans to use it for anything. I'm not really sure why, but the idea of "updating" to N1 popped into my head earlier this year and it seemed like the 10 year mark since taking Level 1 would be appropriate. It's not very expensive, either, and I live close to one of the testing locations, so I decided to go for it.

From what I've heard, N1 is supposed to be slightly more difficult (has a higher ceiling) than JLPT 1 did. They also say the difficulty varies somewhat from year to year (and is obviously a bit subjective), so it's hard to say.

 

[Jintor]

Anyone have any tips on differentiating between verb potential form and passive form easily? Some mnemonic or anything? I'm trying to pick up speed when reading and I'm getting really bogged down whenever I run into something like 考えられている and my brain flips out trying to remember which one it is.

 

[AmethystEnd]

Anyone have any tips on differentiating between verb potential form and passive form easily? Some mnemonic or anything? I'm trying to pick up speed when reading and I'm getting really bogged down whenever I run into something like 考えられている and my brain flips out trying to remember which one it is.

Wouldn't the context generally give it away? In simple cases even just the particles would.

Ex:

弟はケーキを食べられる。My little brother can eat cake.
vs
弟にケーキを食べられた。The cake was eaten by my little brother.

 

[Jintor]

It kinda depends on how complex the sentence is... longer stuff i tend to lose track of what's going on fairly easily and then I get to the end and get confused.

you're right though, i'll try and pay more attention to the context. (It probably doesn't help that having to think about what is passive form constantly is itself confusing)

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Wouldn't the context generally give it away? In simple cases even just the particles would.

Ex:

弟はケーキを食べられる。My little brother can eat cake.
vs
弟にケーキを食べられた。The cake was eaten by my little brother.

Just a note: that's using the "suffering passive" in the last example. The meaning is more along the lines of "My little brother (that jerk) ate my cake (which I was looking forward to eating)". A more neutral tone is ケーキは弟に食べられた。

What about できている? That's also my question. To me they all seem to talk about a specific material or thing.

I'm fairly certain that the difference is actually whether the item being discussed is a specific thing (THAT house, THIS wine, THIS paper, MY car) in which case できている should be used. In the case of a generalization (paper, houses, wine, cars) you can use either できる or できている.

The Japanese word for specificity is 特定, by the way. 特定なものについて話す場合、できているを使うはずです。不特定の場合、どっちでもいいです。