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[Rafa=FedKilla]

I wish WaniKani had a Memrise component, so I can quiz myself in between their standard quizzes. Quizzing is the most effective learning tool,and I wish it was easier to do on their so I can advance...

 

[Porcile]

How can I turn off the furigana on NHK Easy?

 

[upandaway]

How can I turn off the furigana on NHK Easy?

Open it in a browser that doesn't support the furigana (like a mobile browser), or use https://www.reddit.com/r/NHKEasyNews/

Haven't found a way to turn off the furigana on the site

 

[I'm an expert]

I'm really not 'invested' in my method and I don't think anyone else's is better or worse. If I were selling it, sure, I'd be more fiery. It's just I don't see the downside to quickly getting up to level where you can pass a test that even natives can't sometimes. From then on, your 'slow' study can begin since it will take years to practice and apply everything from the 3 months. The assumption is anyone who does my method will continue to use Japanese, and that's where the real reinforcement comes in.

It should really be just thought of as a quick catch up method that then prepares you for the long road ahead. However, (almost) never having to crack a textbook or grammar description for the rest of your J-future makes this study style a price worth paying.


As for NHK Easy, you're saying reading the easy version of the articles but just without furigana? I think there's extensions or scripts in general that disable furigana for browsers.


edit: wtf is that subreddit aboveeee.... wtff.... reddit can do that? reddit is so weird.. I need to try it out more..

 

[Porcile]

As for NHK Easy, you're saying reading the easy version of the articles but just without furigana? I think there's extensions or scripts in general that disable furigana for browsers.

Yeah that's right. When I'm reading, I try and read out loud the articles for practice, but I don't want furigana for stuff like 北海道 because those kanji and readings are circulating on my vocab list. The kanji I don't know I'm unlikely to remember until I get around to them on my vocab list so i'll use something like jisho.org or rikaikun to look them up. Right now furigana is a bit unhelpful, on a very helpful site, because it's only going to be a matter of months before I don't need it in such an all encompassing way, so I might as well get rid of it now, and just double check everything for definitions, obscure readings or similar kanji etc. NHK Easy has a nice little feature for highlighting words of countries and names as well, so that also helps to differentiate between potential strange things.

 

[I'm an expert]

I mean if you don't want to go the addon route, that subreddit seems to just pull and paste every article on the site.. right?

 

[Porcile]

I didn't know it existed. I'll find a plugin when I get home later.

 

[Aizo]

I dont think I'm gonna be able to put out a new thread until like March. My holidays are busy and then ill be at a client in white plains ny for most of winter.

I've been to that airport so many times. You're likely not flying, but the low security there... so relaxing. Visit some graves in Port Chester for me!

 

[I'm an expert]

Nah, it's a commute up from the city for me. I ain't visiting shit. I'll be locked in offices all day then getting the fuck out whenever I can.

 

[RangerBAD]

Couldn't you just paste it into notepad?

I think that I have trouble with subjects that aren't explicitly stated. I know in Japanese the subject is often dropped. Isolated sentences don't help either.

Passive kicks my ass too.

 

[Resilient]

RangerBAD, eventually you stop thinking about it and you just see it when you read. Hard to explain. But I used to read things and be like, oh okay, that means "Due to the poor results of the exam, the entire class needed to be reheld" (example). Now I just read it and know who the subject/what the topic is, who is P1, P2, what is N1, N2 etc, and just read it. Yeah..hard to explain but eventually it comes to you.

Holy shit, thank you based Grammar Dictionary. So many ways to say "but, however" and no proper explanation/succinct explanation. Blue book, ところが　" a conjuction which is used to present what in fact happened or what is in fact the case, when something else was/is expected". Example in question:

昨夜はコンサートに行くつもりだった。ところが病気で行けなくなった。

Woulda been here wondering why the fuck they used this new form, but thanks to the blue book, I am saved.

yes I am plugging books that have been recommended yonks ago. everybody should buy them if they haven't yet. if you're going to buy a textbook and learn from that, you HAVE to buy these as an essential supplement to your textbook study.

 

[Resilient]

double post but, confidence is totally all over the place at the moment. Now I can read Japanese explanations of grammar which helps a lot (it's so simple/straight to the point), and some texts/passages I read are way easier to understand/take less thinking to process. But then I'll watch something or a trailer for a new game, and then just blank on sentences and Kanji that I know I have drawn 3 hours ago.

 

[Porcile]

For all you lazy people:

https://userstyles.org/styles/86595/nhk-news-web-easy-and-mainichi-hide-furigana

 

[Resilient]

Excellent

Rip reading on my phone

 

[RangerBAD]

「この教科書でもカタカナがどんなところに使われている、気をつけてみて下さい。」

This is the passive sentence I was talking about.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Excellent

Rip reading on my phone

You can use that with mobile versions of Firefox, too.

Edit: just tried that out it actually doesn't.

 

[marimorimo]

「この教科書でもカタカナがどんなところに使われている、気をつけてみて下さい。」

This is the passive sentence I was talking about.

Are you sure the sentence isn't 「この教科書でもカタカナがどんなところに使われているか、気をつけてみて下さい。」?

Referring to the passive verb only, it means (literally) "in which areas katakana is used."

 

[RangerBAD]

Are you sure the sentence isn't 「この教科書でもカタカナがどんなところに使われているか、気をつけてみて下さい。」?

Referring to the passive verb only, it means (literally) "in which areas katakana is used."

Yeah, it looks like I left it out. What about the whole sentence?

 

[marimorimo]

Yeah, it looks like I left it out. What about the whole sentence?

"(Try to) be careful/pay attention to where katakana is used in this textbook."

 

[Resilient]

"(Try to) be careful/pay attention to where katakana is used in this textbook."

For me that sentence reads off as not needing the か because it's using 使われている。 Why the addition of か？ I would have said what was originally posted and not used the か, is there a mistake I'd be making?

 

[RangerBAD]

"(Try to) be careful/pay attention to where katakana is used in this textbook."

How does でも　（ても） play in it? I kept wanting to say "even if" or "despite".

For me that sentence reads off as not needing the か because it's using 使われている。 Why the addition of か？ I would have said what was originally posted and not used the か, is there a mistake I'd be making?

It's the "どんな". Question word, but it's not a question. It's like "I forgot what I ate today."

 

[Resilient]

You can use that with mobile versions of Firefox, too.

Edit: just tried that out it actually doesn't.

fuck this earth

 

[I'm an expert]

In my usual vague self, not answering your question (or am I, or am I not), just posting some examples.

 

[RangerBAD]

In my usual vague self, not answering your question (or am I, or am I not), just posting some examples.

Okay, I get it now. Thanks for the not help.

 

[marimorimo]

For me that sentence reads off as not needing the か because it's using 使われている。 Why the addition of か？ I would have said what was originally posted and not used the か, is there a mistake I'd be making?

Yes, it would be a mistake because of どんな as RangerBAD had posted, which makes it a question, and because without か the sentence will not flow with the phrase 気を付けてみてください。か acts a link between the two phrases in the same way as the ～て form is used.

How does でも　（ても） play in it? I kept wanting to say "even if" or "despite".

Yes, "Even if" is a correct definition although in this case I would think the authors meant "Even in this textbook, pay attention to...."

I didn't include it in my original translation because it would be an awkward English sentence without context. The way it is written, it seems that in the previous sentences, the author was recommending the student to pay attention to how katakana/hiragana/kanji is used in everyday life/whatever context. That's just my imagined scenario based on the sparse context clues.

 

[shanshan310]

「この教科書でもカタカナがどんなところに使われている、気をつけてみて下さい。」

This is the passive sentence I was talking about.

When you post these kind of sentences in the thread I'm not really sure what you're after. If you want a translation why not use a dictionary? Or do you not understand the grammar explanation given in your textbook? These are sentences you've seen, not ones you've created right? I feel like it'd be easier to help you if I knew what you actually wanted..

 

[RangerBAD]

When you post these kind of sentences in the thread I'm not really sure what you're after. If you want a translation why not use a dictionary? Or do you not understand the grammar explanation given in your textbook? These are sentences you've seen, not ones you've created right? I feel like it'd be easier to help you if I knew what you actually wanted..

I'm trying to make everything work in my head. In my other post I said I was having trouble with passive, then wondered how temo fit into it in the next post after someone had replied. Ultimately a translation helped, but so did seeing the grammar point.

 

[I'm an expert]

I'm assuming what she's getting at is whatever you're getting these from sentences should be what's teaching you to understand that sentence. The sentence you posted is as basic as it gets for a passive example sentence. There's nothing there to 'kick your ass' so what exactly more could we expand on.

If you posted it and said 'here's what I think it means' or 'I'm not quite sure how this particle fits in/affects the sentence' then we can see what you need clarification on.

But you basically said 'I'm having trouble with desu' then posted a sentence like 'Kore wa pen desu' and we're like.. well.. yes.. that's indeed desu.

Just to use this as another transition into more about 'learning' than just answering your specific grammar question (why I ignored the actual convo about passive/ka/demo).. what did you initially translate the sentence as in your head?

 

[RangerBAD]

I'm assuming what she's getting at is whatever you're getting these from sentences should be what's teaching you to understand that sentence. The sentence you posted is as basic as it gets for a passive example sentence. There's nothing there to 'kick your ass' so what exactly more could we expand on.

If you posted it and said 'here's what I think it means' or 'I'm not quite sure how this particle fits in/affects the sentence' then we can see what you need clarification on.

But you basically said 'I'm having trouble with desu' then posted a sentence like 'Kore wa pen desu' and we're like.. well.. yes.. that's indeed desu.

Well, I said I was having trouble making sense of passive in concerns to the subject. If I didn't say that, then I should have. I'm trying to parse stuff into English just so I can understand at the moment.

 

[I'm an expert]

Well, I said I was having trouble making sense of passive in concerns of the subject. If I didn't say that, then I should have. I'm trying to parse stuff into English just so I can understand at the moment.

Sorry my edit came in after but it looks like we were on the wave length. So before you ever asked here, what did you think that sentence meant.

 

[RangerBAD]

Sorry my edit came in after but it looks like we were on the wave length. So before you ever asked here, what did you think that sentence meant.

Well, it was like very literal and very wrong sounding. That specific clause was like "what kind of places katakana is used in, even if this book". lol The second half was easy, "please try to be careful".

 

[I'm an expert]

So I know you're self studying, I know you're working with your own materials, your own pace, as a hobby. All of that is understood.

But just from a general study technique standpoint, why are you translating words or thoughts literally after studying a language for a fair amount of time now?

 

[RangerBAD]

So I know you're self studying, I know you're working with your own materials, your own pace, as a hobby. All of that is understood.

But just from a general study technique standpoint, why are you translating words or thoughts literally after studying a language for a fair amount of time now?

I try not to, but I guess I fell into that because I wasn't getting it. Or it's a bad habit.

 

[I'm an expert]

I feel like I've written at length about that trap so I don't think I need to again.

Now I know what the main hang up is - demo. And I didn't want to jump into this because it goes deep. But demo is a motherfucker of particles. I've fought this battle before as a young padawan.

So full disclosure, I have this book from ages ago, (now you see how much I got into this language after I passed jlpt1) and was going to dig it up for another picture, but I found that this text is actually on google books. So if you want to read just how deep the rabbit hole goes:
https://books.google.com/books?id=S...epage&q=reference of japanese grammar&f=false

Page 167, can click link from contents.

What's important to pick up on is just how hard it is to get some of this into English. Hence why it's important for you sometimes to actually not try to 'translate' every word in a Japanese sentence, because it wouldn't exist in an English version of the sentence.

 

[marimorimo]

So full disclosure, I have this book from ages ago, (now you see how much I got into this language after I passed jlpt1) and was going to dig it up for another picture, but I found that this text is actually on google books. So if you want to read just how deep the rabbit hole goes:
https://books.google.com/books?id=S...epage&q=reference of japanese grammar&f=false

Page 167, can click link from contents.

What's important to pick up on is just how hard it is to get some of this into English. Hence why it's important for you sometimes to actually not try to 'translate' every word in a Japanese sentence, because it wouldn't exist in an English version of the sentence.

That's a pretty useful overview of the uses of でも。 The first three sample sentence were usages that I was familiar with but didn't understand enough grammatically to use in my own speech. Now I know how. Thanks. Shame that it has a very jumbled layout of the explanations and uses the kunreishiki romanization that no self-respecting gaijin would want to use. Very hard to read.

Still, that's quite a bunch of definitions and usages to memorize. If it would make other learners out there feel better, for でも I only memorized the meanings "but" and "even if (～て&#12418"。 The other meanings and usages came naturally as I encountered them in books/manga/everyday speech. Context clues will tell you what you need to know. I didn't even realize until now that でも had that many usages, yet have been using most of them regularly.

 

[RangerBAD]

I feel like I've written at length about that trap so I don't think I need to again.

Now I know what the main hang up is - demo. And I didn't want to jump into this because it goes deep. But demo is a motherfucker of particles. I've fought this battle before as a young padawan.

So full disclosure, I have this book from ages ago, (now you see how much I got into this language after I passed jlpt1) and was going to dig it up for another picture, but I found that this text is actually on google books. So if you want to read just how deep the rabbit hole goes:
https://books.google.com/books?id=S...epage&q=reference of japanese grammar&f=false

Page 167, can click link from contents.

What's important to pick up on is just how hard it is to get some of this into English. Hence why it's important for you sometimes to actually not try to 'translate' every word in a Japanese sentence, because it wouldn't exist in an English version of the sentence.

I don't really try to translate concepts.

That's a pretty useful overview of the uses of でも。 The first three sample sentence were usages that I was familiar with but didn't understand enough grammatically to use in my own speech. Now I know how. Thanks. Shame that it has a very jumbled layout of the explanations and uses the kunreishiki romanization that no self-respecting gaijin would want to use. Very hard to read.

Yeah, the romanization is really nasty.

 

[stump sock]

Very hard to read.

gave me a bit of a headache, that. but at least ereveetaa-booi cracked me up a little

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I feel like RangerBAD's sentence is a good example of how easy it can be to pack a Japanese sentence with a variety of elements, at least in comparison to English.

If you were to translate that sentence into English with the goal of keeping all of the elements in the original, it might be clearer to split it up into two sentences rather than trying to force all of them into one unnatural jumble.

「この教科書でもカタカナがどんなところに使われているか、気をつけてみて下さい。」

Break it down into:

この教科書でもカタカナが使われている

and

どんなところに使われているか、気をつけてみて下さい

So, maybe something like:

"Katakana is also used in this textbook. Pay attention to where it gets used."

 

[Kilrogg]

Does anyone know of any way to buy audiobooks in Japanese (and with a non-Japanese credit card)? I'd love to have some Murakami Haruki read to me.

From what I understand, Amazon JP's Audible service is kinda shitty. You can stream the books, but not buy them.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

For the record, I never use こんにちは in business emails.

No, I didn't use the "slow philosophy" to learn Japanese. Quite the opposite. When I took JLPT Level 4, our teacher used our class as a guinea pig to pass the test in 30 hours. We took more or less that amount of classroom time, and we all passed. Since we did Level 4 in 30 hours, she said "let's do it for JLPT Level 3 next!" and we did the same. I don't know about the others, but I passed Level 3 as well.

That didn't mean any of us could hold a conversation though. Oh, it was helpful when I eventually reached Japan as pure desperation allowed me to communicate (awkwardly) with the landlady, but what eventually allowed me to speak the language was going out there and being put in a position to speak.

Aren't you saying right here that it gave you a base to work from, even if your first interactions were awkward? If you hadn't crammed, you wouldn't have been able to communicate with the landlady at all and thus wouldn't have been able to reflect on your exchange and endeavor to do better in the future.

If I didn't have a chance to go to Japan, would I even have been able to use the language at all? (Not just passively reading or listening to it, actually speaking or writing it).

Absolutely not. Just like reading and listening, you need to practice your writing and speaking in order to be able to use it well. With that said, the reading and speaking aspect can help you form a base with which to begin writing and speaking.

So now I can speak and write Japanese. I even passed N1. Am I satisfied with my ability now? Do I feel confident about my Japanese? No, and no. I make stupid mistakes as evidenced above. I make them all the time.

If I could go back in time, I would like to tell my 17 year-old-self: "Hey, there's no need to rush. Instead of memorizing these pages and pages of grammar, how about selecting just one or two and practice using it speaking out loud. Reading this pile of manga is fine, but how about putting more time into writing your own sentences and having them checked? Next time you see a Japanese person, ask them to evaluate and correct your pronunciation and tone."

Basically, I want to prevent my 17-year-old self from having a shallow understanding of the usage of Japanese vocab and grammar. From the get-go. Is this achievable in 3 months? I doubt it.

I still don't understand why you think you'd be better off today with *less* knowledge. Would you have somehow gained more opportunities to use and learn practical Japanese if you didn't spend time studying grammar points and Kanji, etc.?

If you don't think it's hard to correct bad habits, there's no convincing you so I won't. It's just an observation based on my own and others' experience such as my French teacher.

I guess it just depends on the person and their demeanor. If you don't let pride get in the way, I see no reason why it would be difficult to learn from your mistakes. Just need to stay humble and never assume that you've got everything figured out (not insinuating that *you* do).

 

[marimorimo]

I've talked at length as to why I prefer "slow burn study" in previous posts so I'll only reply to this one point.

I still don't understand why you think you'd be better off today with *less* knowledge. Would you have somehow gained more opportunities to use and learn practical Japanese if you didn't spend time studying grammar points and Kanji, etc.?

I want to clarify that with "slow study" (as I have outlined it), you would still be studying grammar points, kanji, vocab, etc. The difference is the pacing and output. 2 years vs. 3 months and mainly reading/listening vs. mainly speaking/writing your own sentences. I selected 2 years because that is a realistic number for most people who are taking language classes once or twice a week. If someone were incredibly dedicated, he could probably do it for under a year but it's a stretch if he wasn't living in Japan.

You will trade off the immediate satisfaction of knowing a bunch of stuff early in your studies for an organic understanding of the language. Organic understanding only comes from extensive practice, which you cannot cram. But it works like compound interest since language builds on itself. As the learner would be confident in the things he does know, he'd be more confident in learning and absorbing new bits of language. When studying higher level grammar, he'd have less trouble and he won't need to go back to relearn things he missed because he already has a solid understanding of the base.

Also, this method does not focus on "gaining" the opportunity to use and learn practical Japanese. You will make the opportunity instead.

 

[Porcile]

You could incorporate writing a Lang-8 blog post and speaking into the study schedule at least. Let's see: two hours reading, one hour listening and one hour writing. Do that everyday for the allotted three months, or four months if you want to gradually introduce things not pile it on at once. You got yourself a stew going.

 

[CHUNKYBOWSER]

First time posting here, maybe second, not sure.

I've been an exchange student in Japan for about four months now. I'm going back to the USA for a month, but then returning in late January and staying until August. This summer I have a pretty high profile internship that will require me to study Japanese at an accelerated rate in preparation for it.

The internship recommends N2 level proficiency. Right now I'm halfway through Genki 2, so now you may understand where I'm at. I don't know many Kanji as I've basically ignored them in Genki. My listening skills, however, are better than my peers', at least from what I can tell.

Next semester my Japanese class will finish Genki 2. During this time I plan to try to memorize all 2,000ish Kanji. I've looked at "i am an expert's" guide and I've considered following that. I have quite a bit of free time, even during the semester, so I might as well cram them in as much as possible. Obviously I will study grammar, too.

I suppose my reason for posting here is to give myself some motivation. I've told you all what I intend to do, so hopefully I won't let you down. If I do, I should feel ashamed of myself.

 

[I'm an expert]

Is the internship a part of the study abroad program? How did you get it without the required level of jgo? If it is a part of the curriculum, why on earth would they only get through genki 2. Actually a year long study program and only doing genki2 is a giant fuckin waste of time in general.

What industry is the internship in? Dont need ultra specifics.

Anyway I'd honestly recommend a different style of study for you for everything but the kanji if you're actually in Jland. Communication will be key for you.

 

[CHUNKYBOWSER]

Is the internship a part of the study abroad program? How did you get it without the required level of jgo? If it is a part of the curriculum, why on earth would they only get through genki 2. Actually a year long study program and only doing genki2 is a giant fuckin waste of time in general.

What industry is the internship in? Dont need ultra specifics.

Anyway I'd honestly recommend a different style of study for you for everything but the kanji if you're actually in Jland. Communication will be key for you.

No, the internship is separate. The internship involves business and trade both from the U.S. side and the Japanese side. I think they were okay with the fact that I am a lower level, but I would definitely like to learn as much as possible to be more useful to them.

Also, the Japanese studies here are even worse than you think. Each semester of Japanese here is equivalent to half of one Genki book. Next semester I will be in level 4. I took Japanese 1 and 2 at my home institution. However, classes here also include major related classes outside of Japanese. Perhaps this is why the Japanese language workload is so small. I definitely wouldn't mind much more accelerated classes, though.

I appreciate any advice for studying business related Japanese.

 

[I'm an expert]

I deal with native and foreign interns every day over there and over here so Ill try to write something up for you if I have time. Do yourself a favor. Dont wait. Jump on the kanji now. Be jlpt1 kanji ready by March.

 

[RangerBAD]

I feel like RangerBAD's sentence is a good example of how easy it can be to pack a Japanese sentence with a variety of elements, at least in comparison to English.

If you were to translate that sentence into English with the goal of keeping all of the elements in the original, it might be clearer to split it up into two sentences rather than trying to force all of them into one unnatural jumble.

「この教科書でもカタカナがどんなところに使われているか、気をつけてみて下さい。」

Break it down into:

この教科書でもカタカナが使われている

and

どんなところに使われているか、気をつけてみて下さい

So, maybe something like:

"Katakana is also used in this textbook. Pay attention to where it gets used."

I felt like that too.

 

[Porcile]

On the subject of JLPT kanji, are there many JLPT kanji that we know of which are not on the jouyou list and vice versa? Is there some sort of comparison out there? I'm guessing perhaps there's not anything definitive, since there isn't an official JLPT kanji list. Are there any still sometimes used kanji missing from the jouyou kanji for whatever reason? Where can I find these kanji?

I know these two "lists" are the minimum, so what's after jouyou/JLPT? Even if I spend another two months straight doing kanji, I'd have covered all of the (unofficial) JLPT and jouyou kanji with some time to spare, and I'd still have about two weeks before I had to fly to Japan. It's not like I'd be doing much else in those two weeks, no point spending money and shit. I can basically just keep learning and learning till the end of March if I really wanted to. Not that it's hugely enjoyable tbh, but while I'm knee deep in the shit...

 

[Resilient]

try Remembering the Kanji 3 to get a list. There's an app on the App Store for 9.99 and it has them all consolidated in it from 2106 - 3201. Whether it's any use...ask somebody who knows (not me)

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

try Remembering the Kanji 3 to get a list. There's an app on the App Store for 9.99 and it has them all consolidated in it from 2106 - 3201. Whether it's any use...ask somebody who knows (not me)

You can get these lists for free.

Anki flashcards for RTK: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2654705267
Spreadsheets: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aa1SVOGeeBQTA5ck5FY1VQTW8/edit

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auaa1SVOGeeBdDRLWEtycXYtUzY4T2dMZzlHRnhubVE