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[marvelharvey]

Can the 'further ahead than me' help my dictionary explain these words?

As I make my way through the kanji, I keep finding groups that (according to my dictionary anyway), all have the same meanings. Obviously there are subtle differences that it can't explain with its awful single word answers.

So, todays vague explanations are:

望む - to hope/wish/desire
希望する - to hope/wish/desire
希求する - to hope/wish/desire

愛する - to love
恋う - to love

愛 - love
恋い - love

So, are there any subtle differences within these groups? Or are they basically just the same word?

 

[tnw]

Can the 'further ahead than me' help my dictionary explain these words?

As I make my way through the kanji, I keep finding groups that (according to my dictionary anyway), all have the same meanings. Obviously there are subtle differences that it can't explain with its awful single word answers.

So, todays vague explanations are:

望む - to hope/wish/desire
希望する - to hope/wish/desire
希求する - to hope/wish/desire

愛する - to love
恋う - to love

愛 - love
恋い - love

So, are there any subtle differences within these groups? Or are they basically just the same word?

In my opinion, nozomu and kibou are different in the sense that nozomu is like 'wish on a star' wish, like kind of romantic. Kibou means 'preference' more or less.

I like saying nozomashii as often as I can. Don't really know why, makes me sound smart or something I guess (like 'sono kekka wa nozomashii da kedo ne')

Aisuru means like love in a romantic way. koi means love in a temporary, kind of sexual way.

 

[Kilrogg]

Can the 'further ahead than me' help my dictionary explain these words?

As I make my way through the kanji, I keep finding groups that (according to my dictionary anyway), all have the same meanings. Obviously there are subtle differences that it can't explain with its awful single word answers.

So, todays vague explanations are:

望む - to hope/wish/desire
希望する - to hope/wish/desire
希求する - to hope/wish/desire

愛する - to love
恋う - to love

愛 - love
恋い - love

So, are there any subtle differences within these groups? Or are they basically just the same word?

Can't help you for everyone of these (I'm not that good yet), but I guess you can get the subtle differences by looking at the individual kanji and their meanings.

Going by that, 希望 is an aspiration for something, whereas 希求 is more like a demand. It seems more tricky for 望む though, so I'd rather not tell you something incorrect.

愛 and 恋 are a lot easier to figure out though. 恋 is passionate love or romance, whereas 愛 is what you could call "true love". In other words, the former is less serious than the latter. Young people are more likely to 恋する, whereas, say, a married couple 愛してる.

One last note: I didn't even know the verb 恋う existed, but going by my dictionary, it means "to remember someone fondly, to miss someone". The example being "母を恋う" : to remember one's mother with love (is that proper English?).

 

[marvelharvey]

Thanks tnw and Kilrogg, that's clarified some of the muddy waters. My dictionary is catering for Japanese people studying and isn't too good going back the other way, so I'm sure I'll be asking more questions as the months tick by.

 

[Kilrogg]

Thanks tnw and Kilrogg, that's clarified some of the muddy waters. My dictionary is catering for Japanese people studying and isn't too good going back the other way, so I'm sure I'll be asking more questions as the months tick by.

You're welcome, but take what I say with a grain of salt, because I'm incredibly less experienced than tnw, Zefah and other posters here. If anything, you might be better than me, you know .

You'd better wait for others to confirm that my explanations are right.

 

[Shouta]

Can the 'further ahead than me' help my dictionary explain these words?

As I make my way through the kanji, I keep finding groups that (according to my dictionary anyway), all have the same meanings. Obviously there are subtle differences that it can't explain with its awful single word answers.

So, todays vague explanations are:

望む - to hope/wish/desire
希望する - to hope/wish/desire
希求する - to hope/wish/desire

愛する - to love
恋う - to love

愛 - love
恋い - love

So, are there any subtle differences within these groups? Or are they basically just the same word?

望む - to make a wish
希望する - hope
希求する - desire

It comes down to the common usage of each word in Japanese. tnw states the general point though.

 

[YYZ]

Can someone tell me if this is the correct way to write "Happy mother's day" in Japanese?

母の日おめでとう (haha no hi omedetou)

thanks!

 

[n3ss]

So... would it be retarded of me to only want to learn to speak japanese and forgo actually learning how to write and read?


If not retarded, any recommendations in going about this?

 

[PROOP]

So... would it be retarded of me to only want to learn to speak japanese and forgo actually learning how to write and read?


If not retarded, any recommendations in going about this?

Well, you probably won't speak it well if you don't know anything about the written form. Learning past the basics without any knowledge of kanji and hiragana/katakana will seriously hinder your capacity, plus I imagine that grammar will also be much harder to learn.

My vote goes with retarded.

 

[n3ss]

Well, you probably won't speak it well if you don't know anything about the written form. Learning past the basics without any knowledge of kanji and hiragana/katakana will seriously hinder your capacity, plus I imagine that grammar will also be much harder to learn.

My vote goes with retarded.

Sigh, thats what I was afraid of...

 

[RevenantKioku]

Sigh, thats what I was afraid of...

You're just going to have to figure out why you'd want to learn the language. Ignoring one part of it just hinders your overall ability to appreciate and utilize the language.

 

[Blackace]

So... would it be retarded of me to only want to learn to speak japanese and forgo actually learning how to write and read?


If not retarded, any recommendations in going about this?

I will say it is not impossible though! My part time gig is bouncing and a group of Iranians own a nightclub that our company bounces at. One of the guys can speak very very well but cannot read a lick of Japanese. He writes his mails in romanji.. still crazy I think

 

[RevenantKioku]

I will say it is not impossible though! My part time gig is bouncing and a group of Iranians own a nightclub that our company bounces at. One of the guys can speak very very well but cannot read a lick of Japanese. He writes his mails in romanji.. still crazy I think

If you're living in Japan it is easier to pick up speaking, no doubt. You learned your native tongue just by being around people.
But if you're working from another country, you're just going to slow yourself down. And it's not like reading and writing are useless skills to have, anyway.

 

[Blackace]

If you're living in Japan it is easier to pick up speaking, no doubt. You learned your native tongue just by being around people.
But if you're working from another country, you're just going to slow yourself down. And it's not like reading and writing are useless skills to have, anyway.

not disagreeing at all. I think it is silly not to learn reading and writing. But it can be done is all I said.

 

[RevenantKioku]

not disagreeing at all. I think it is silly not to learn reading and writing. But it can be done is all I said.

Sorry, I basically meant to attach the clause of yes what you're saying is true, but only realistic for someone living in the country.

 

[takotchi]

So... I just found out today that "A Dictionary of Advanced Japanese Grammar" is out. I didn't even know it was planned. :lol Anyway, I have the first two (Basic and Intermediate) and they're great. Definitely going to pick this one up.

 

[Blackace]

So... I just found out today that "A Dictionary of Advanced Japanese Grammar" is out. I didn't even know it was planned. :lol Anyway, I have the first two (Basic and Intermediate) and they're great. Definitely going to pick this one up.

of course it was planned...love these books!!

 

[RevenantKioku]

Holy sweet fuckballs! Good show.

 

[zoku88]

So... would it be retarded of me to only want to learn to speak japanese and forgo actually learning how to write and read?


If not retarded, any recommendations in going about this?

Heh, it's kinda strange, since I'm kinda the opposite (I don't actually have any use in speaking Japanese.) I can't really imagine learning one without the other, though.

So, thursday is my last day of classes. We were taught on how to thank the sensei for the semester, but I forgot. What are several ways to thank them for taking care of us?

 

[RevenantKioku]

Man, I really just wanted to say how I'm still impressed how awesome using an SRS can be. I just did a few reps and I'm reading things that at first glance I'm like "oh fuck me" but then when I check it I'm completely right.

 

[marvelharvey]

Is anyone in possession of an electronic dictionary that gives Japanese->English explanations longer than single word answers? I'm getting very tired of my 'single word' dictionary, as the words it hands me can have a variety of meanings in English... and I don't know which. For example, when I read that 'blah blah blah' means: 'Character'. Is that 1)personality 2)character (as in Mario/sonic) 3)character (as in 'you have character') or 4)a letter

I another example is back, earlier in this thread, where my dictionary gave me the same answer combination for 5 different Japanese words, all coming out as 'hope/wish/desire' x5. Thanks to GAF team and a few friends, I was finally able to understand the subtle differences between those words.

However, I don't wish to bother GAF/friends each and every time I have this issue. So, dictionary recommendations please.

 

[okno]

Heh, it's kinda strange, since I'm kinda the opposite (I don't actually have any use in speaking Japanese.) I can't really imagine learning one without the other, though.

So, thursday is my last day of classes. We were taught on how to thank the sensei for the semester, but I forgot. What are several ways to thank them for taking care of us?

Domo arigatto gozaimasu and dozo (super informal)? That's pretty much what my sensei has been telling us.

 

[Kilrogg]

Is anyone in possession of an electronic dictionary that gives Japanese->English explanations longer than single word answers? I'm getting very tired of my 'single word' dictionary, as the words it hands me can have a variety of meanings in English... and I don't know which. For example, when I read that 'blah blah blah' means: 'Character'. Is that 1)personality 2)character (as in Mario/sonic) 3)character (as in 'you have character') or 4)a letter

I another example is back, earlier in this thread, where my dictionary gave me the same answer combination for 5 different Japanese words, all coming out as 'hope/wish/desire' x5. Thanks to GAF team and a few friends, I was finally able to understand the subtle differences between those words.

However, I don't wish to bother GAF/friends each and every time I have this issue. So, dictionary recommendations please.

My old Casio XD-R7200 uses the Genius dictionary for jap>eng, which doesn't only give single-word answer.

 

[tnw]

Is anyone in possession of an electronic dictionary that gives Japanese->English explanations longer than single word answers? I'm getting very tired of my 'single word' dictionary, as the words it hands me can have a variety of meanings in English... and I don't know which.

Just use ALC, the online dictionary. Gives pages and pages of examples and context. I never ever use denshi jisho anymore. I mean, if you have an internet connection and a computer handy, the internet is way way better. If you were a interpreter on site or something like that I can see how they would be useful, but those one word definitions are part of the reason I don't like using them anymore.

ALC does both j>e and e>j in the same box. Can't read a character? cut and paste it into the box.
http://eow.alc.co.jp/GAF/UTF-8/?ref=sa


And ways of thanking your teacher 'osewa ni narimashita'?

 

[marvelharvey]

ALC? I think I've found my new home page. Thanks!

 

[Shouta]

ALC? I think I've found my new home page. Thanks!

Use ALC and wwwjdic. ALC is good for looking up readings and usage but it sometimes won't show up with words/kanji and etc. Also, it lists huge number of uses and variants so you'd have to wade through it to correctly pick out possible meanings and etc. It's definitely a better tool as you get more advanced.

 

[marvelharvey]

Use ALC and wwwjdic. ALC is good for looking up readings and usage but it sometimes won't show up with words/kanji and etc. Also, it lists huge number of uses and variants so you'd have to wade through it to correctly pick out possible meanings and etc. It's definitely a better tool as you get more advanced.

It's already helped me out with today's homework and blog! Tremendous recommendation.

By the way, I've been studying Japanese full time for almost a year and I've seen this kanji many many times: 々 but so far, haven't studied it. All I managed to work out was that it had almost limitless readings, sometimes is was いろ or おの or どき or べつ. I wasn't looking forward to studying the damn thing, as I was worried about having to learn the countless variations. HOWFUCKINGEVER, today I finally found out that it means 'ditto the preceding kanji's reading'. Boy, do I feel like a fool... but a relieved fool.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Yeah, except you add the dakuten marks on the first character of the 2nd Kanji's reading.

時々 [ときどき] (adv,n) sometimes
様々 [さまざま] (adj-na,n) varied; various

 

[Monroeski]

Probably a stupid question, but is this -

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...t_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

The same thing as the book in the OP other than being a later edition? I've seen so many people giving links to the 4th edition, it's making me wonder if there is some important difference.

Anyway, for somebody essentially starting from nothing, what should I go out and get first? I mean, I can take all the advice and go get 5 books and 7 pieces of software today, but I doubt I'm going to get everything out of them if I have to split up my time and devote only 5 minutes to each of them every day (I'm exaggerating, of course). So, if I'm going to get ONE book, which would be the best to start with? If I were to get two books? Should I really attack Remembering the Kanji before heading to the full sentence structure/grammar exploration, or should I devote equal time initially?

::edit::
nevermind about the edition thing, I improved my thread search-fu and found the answer for myself.

A better question - I'm heading to A-Kon in Dallas in a week and a half. Any recommendations on music, manga, etc. to pick up that may be good practice for a beginner to work on translating? Not that I'm going to try translating a whole book in the next week and a half or anything, but I figure this only comes around once a year and I would prefer to pick up something in person/haggle with the shopkeep than deal with getting stuff online.

 

[rex64]

hi there!

does anybody know the meaning of ぬぉ～ん ? Also written ぬぉん

 

[RevenantKioku]

Probably a stupid question, but is this -

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...t_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

The same thing as the book in the OP other than being a later edition? I've seen so many people giving links to the 4th edition, it's making me wonder if there is some important difference.

Nah, the fifth edition just came out this past year so most people still talk about the 4th.

Anyway, for somebody essentially starting from nothing, what should I go out and get first? I mean, I can take all the advice and go get 5 books and 7 pieces of software today, but I doubt I'm going to get everything out of them if I have to split up my time and devote only 5 minutes to each of them every day (I'm exaggerating, of course). So, if I'm going to get ONE book, which would be the best to start with? If I were to get two books? Should I really attack Remembering the Kanji before heading to the full sentence structure/grammar exploration, or should I devote equal time initially?

Go to that www.alljapaneseallthetime.com site and check out the order he recommends people who start from scratch. I'd personally recommend tackling RtK1 first but you've seen the blood shed in this thread. I'm not going to get into it again. I personally wish I had found out about the book sooner.

::edit::
nevermind about the edition thing, I improved my thread search-fu and found the answer for myself.

Okay then!

A better question - I'm heading to A-Kon in Dallas in a week and a half. Any recommendations on music, manga, etc. to pick up that may be good practice for a beginner to work on translating? Not that I'm going to try translating a whole book in the next week and a half or anything, but I figure this only comes around once a year and I would prefer to pick up something in person/haggle with the shopkeep than deal with getting stuff online.

Just grab stuff that looks interesting to you. Translating is a long ways off. Just pick up things you know or think you'll be interested in watching/reading a few times over. I'm struggling now because I'm not finding anything really interesting to me. Most manga just doesn't do it for me. Same with anime. Yotsuba& is the only one that I've gotten into and I'm actually rewatching LOST in Japanese at the moment, haha.

 

[Heidalloon]

Besides reading through Tae Kim's guide, what do you all recommend doing for studying grammar?

 

[angelfly]

Besides reading through Tae Kim's guide, what do you all recommend doing for studying grammar?

Only one I know of besides the Tae Kim one is the one from About.com which I don't think is as good as Tae Kim's. Other than that a textbook would be an easy way topick up on grammar.

 

[okno]

Yeah, except you add the dakuten marks on the first character of the 2nd Kanji's reading.

時々 [ときどき] (adv,n) sometimes
様々 [さまざま] (adj-na,n) varied; various

This is not the case with saying "the week before last", though, which is せんせんしょう、but would be shown as sen"ditto"shou with no change in the pronunciation.

Sorry, I don't know how to work the kanji on my computer yet :3

 

[tnw]

hi there!

does anybody know the meaning of ぬぉ～ん ? Also written ぬぉん

stop learning japanese from anime/manga

 

[RevenantKioku]

stop learning japanese from anime/manga

I don't think that's what it means!

Besides reading through Tae Kim's guide, what do you all recommend doing for studying grammar?

Read and watch stuff. Also pick up those grammar books I listed in the first post. I can't read through them but when I don't quite get something in what I'm reading I like to reference them.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Actually, I've got a question. Maybe I already know how to say this but I'm blanking.
How do you say something like "was going to"?
For example, a friend just emailed me and asked where we should go for dinner tomorrow and I really was just about to ask her the same thing. 同じ質問を聞くつもりや。probably sounds weird but I cant think of anything else.

 

[tnw]

Actually, I've got a question. Maybe I already know how to say this but I'm blanking.
How do you say something like "was going to"?
For example, a friend just emailed me and asked where we should go for dinner tomorrow and I really was just about to ask her the same thing. 同じ質問を聞くつもりや。probably sounds weird but I cant think of anything else.

(saki) kikou to shite ita tokoro

(saki) kikou ka to omotteita tokoro, etc.

actually probably minus the tokoro s in that context.

 

[RevenantKioku]

ところ！ Yes! I did know that.　Sweet, thanks.

 

[marvelharvey]

Actually, I've got a question. Maybe I already know how to say this but I'm blanking.
How do you say something like "was going to"?
For example, a friend just emailed me and asked where we should go for dinner tomorrow and I really was just about to ask her the same thing. 同じ質問を聞くつもりや。probably sounds weird but I cant think of anything else.

Your question has already been answered, but along similar lines, I do find that I've forgotten many beginner grammar points/phrases and I have no idea why. For some reason, I can remember tons of higher level pointless stuff like:

老眼: presbyopia
優越感を持ってる: to have an superiority complex
軽歩兵: light infantry

..yet a couple of days ago, I was stumped when trying to ask for the bill at the end of a meal. I had to end up doing the Seinfeld 'cheque please' gesture. Kind of embarrassing.

Edit: that reminds me of a story when I first came here and asked for the bill. I read my phrase book that said 'okanjyo kudasai' but for some reason said 'kanojyo kudasai' and much hilarity ensued.

 

[RevenantKioku]

That's why using this SRS stuff is really important. Seriously, get Anki and start plugging sentences in to practice. I'm pulling words out of my ass in conversations and I'm like "where did I ever...?" and then when I'm studying I'm like "Oh yeah, that's where!"

 

[tnw]

Edit: that reminds me of a story when I first came here and asked for the bill. I read my phrase book that said 'okanjyo kudasai' but for some reason said 'kanojyo kudasai' and much hilarity ensued.

don't feel bad, I actually forget how to say bill sometiems too :lol

there's like 3 different ways to say it too, so it's kind of easy to forget/mix them up

I made a similiar silly mistake the other day:

My friend was saying that he really wanted to eat more stuff with miso in it, I kept miso dentaku instead of miso dengaku. When i ordered a miso dentaku, the waiter gave me this blank stare, and started ghost punching keys on a calculator :lol

*wipes egg off face*

 

[Link1110]

I just started to, affter seeing the idea on the Reviewing the Kanji board, create a Heisig kanji list using Japanese words. I'm up to somewhere in the 180s, and I know corresponding words to about half of the kanji I've done so far.

Some of the Kanji have me putting my game knowledge to use such as (I've been skipping around a bit) for 狂, my keyword is しきょうしん (it was down to that or whatever the kana for 狂星子 is (きょうせいこ？ きょうせいし&#65311 But I'm going to start catching up by learning a few new words while I'm at it.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Yeah, I typedall 2000+ words from Reviewing the Kanji 2 into Excel and have been slowly putting them into sentences for my reviews. Some of them I'm passing on as I'm sure the Buddhist existentialism terms aren't quite necessary for me, but I am getting a good number of words out of it still.

 

[angelfly]

I haven't touched RTK in about three weeks. It got a bit hard to open it every day since my schedule became a bit busy. I just need to work out a good set time. I was working on it every morning for about an hour or two but I think nights are the better choice now. Also since I've been doing the AJATTP method I actually switched my OS Japanese which wasn't too hard. I've also been going through "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Sentence Patterns" which i grabbed from amazon not too long ago and have been studying them.

 

[biocat]

Yeah, I typedall 2000+ words from Reviewing the Kanji 2 into Excel and have been slowly putting them into sentences for my reviews. Some of them I'm passing on as I'm sure the Buddhist existentialism terms aren't quite necessary for me, but I am getting a good number of words out of it still.

That's a good idea. I just recently FAILED 一級JLPT and I'm not looking forward to taking it again.

Need to memorize those kanji!

 

[clav]

Any books to recommend for preparing the JLPT 2?

 

[biocat]

The 完全マスター series is good for JLPT2. Then, when your done with those, get some of the past tests and practice on those. Good luck!

 

[1stStrike]

*stares at op*

Yea, I don't think I have enough artistic talent to draw kanji, let alone learn japanese =\

 

[RevenantKioku]

*stares at op*

Yea, I don't think I have enough artistic talent to draw kanji, let alone learn japanese =\

:lol My kanji look just like my english handwriting. Assy but understandable.
It's not about talent, just effort. Someone in this thread said something retarded like "not everyone can learn Japanese."
Hogwash.