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[clav]

The 完全マスター series is good for JLPT2. Then, when your done with those, get some of the past tests and practice on those. Good luck!

Any places you recommend buying this from?

Also, any good materials to practice listening?

 

[Cheesemeister]

Has anyone here ever taken classes at the Kudan Institute of Language & Culture in Jimbo-cho, Tokyo?

 

[okno]

*stares at op*

Yea, I don't think I have enough artistic talent to draw kanji, let alone learn japanese =\

Trust me, there are Japanese out there who have handwriting that is just as bad as the worst in America, you don't need to be perfect (and most of the flourishes in the writing isn't necessary).

 

[clav]

I read that Unicom books are also great preparation tools for the JLPT.

Anyone have any experience with these?

 

[biocat]

I read that Unicom books are also great preparation tools for the JLPT.

Anyone have any experience with these?

Unicom books are easier to use if you're studying on your own, but I found they were lacking a lot of kanji/grammar points when it came down to actually taking the practice tests. The Kanzen master books are a bit harder to use but much more comprehensive.

For listening you're basically taking everything you learn in the other parts and applying it in a different way, so practicing on mock tests and past tests is your best bet.

I bought my books at Kinokuniya, but after a quick search it looks like you can buy them from this site.

http://benippon.com/s?q=Kanzen+Master

 

[Deleted member 17706]

These are the two books I bought and used to study when I took 1-Kyuu back in 2005. The 文法 was especially good in my opinion. I actually learned a lot of useful stuff. The 読解 one was good as well and I remember a few of the examples actually showed up on test I took which was cool. I had no need for the Kanji one, but it's probably good as well. Then again, if you're going for 1-Kyuu you should probably already know quit a bit of Kanji.

I bought them a few months before actually taking the test at Kinokuniya (any large Kinokuniya should have a section with lots JLPT books) and these ones looked a lot better than the alternatives so I went with them. I ended up getting a 93% if I remember correctly, so the books served me very well and I wholeheartedly recommend them. I also recommend picking up one of the exams from a previous year to practice on.

 

[YYZ]

Anyone know of a website or product to learn pronunciation of various kanji? I'm learning through Heisig's book, "Remembering the Kanji", but it doesn't teach pronunciation and I just want to be familiar with their pronunciation (not necessarily memorize) while learning how to write them.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Anyone know of a website or product to learn pronunciation of various kanji? I'm learning through Heisig's book, "Remembering the Kanji", but it doesn't teach pronunciation and I just want to be familiar with their pronunciation (not necessarily memorize) while learning how to write them.

Don't.
Unlike Chinese, the kanji in Japanese have multiple readings. So that's why the divide and conquer idea is there. Don't worry, it'll come to you. Right now, finish the book and keep up your daily SRS repetitions. (You are doing this, right?)

 

[NotWii]

Woops, I thought this was Costanza's thread.

 

[marvelharvey]

Anyone know of a website or product to learn pronunciation of various kanji? I'm learning through Heisig's book, "Remembering the Kanji", but it doesn't teach pronunciation and I just want to be familiar with their pronunciation (not necessarily memorize) while learning how to write them.

If you have a Mac, use 'Genius', I use it to test my knowledge of the kanji pronunciations. Currently, I've typed in around 450 kanji and have approx 2000 other words derived from those kanji to test myself on, so I can study both the kun'yomi and on'yomi readings. Plus, I have a sister file, to test myself on the English meanings of all those words.

Typing up those took me one hell of a fucking amount of time, but I'll share my files for people that want them... maybe. However, they're in pretty much a random order, the order I studied them in, so for other people, the files will be hell to navigate.

 

[Askia47]

Okay, up to Frame 952, which is good, but I'm forgetting alot of kanji. Trying to go though a Yotsubato Manga and document the vocab i see. So far so good.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Anyone know of a website or product to learn pronunciation of various kanji? I'm learning through Heisig's book, "Remembering the Kanji", but it doesn't teach pronunciation and I just want to be familiar with their pronunciation (not necessarily memorize) while learning how to write them.

It's going to be difficult because as far as I understand, Heisig uses his own order in which he introduces new Kanji. Because of this, it will be difficult for you to look up Kanji that you want to know the pronunciation for, because, well... you don't know the pronunciation. If you have an electronic dictionary you could easily look up the Kanji by searching via its radical and browsing through a list until you found it.

When I first started learning Kanji I personally bought a set of "Kanji drills" that Japanese elementary school children use and used those to practice. They teach you the stroke order, most of the various readings and give you a few example sentences. I realize I shouldn't knock the Heisig method because I didn't actually try it and therefore do not know how effective it is, but I am very suspicious that it is a superior method to learning Kanji in the same way that actual Japanese school children do.

I would definitely recommend getting an electronic dictionary that has a good Kanji dictionary in it, though. That way you could look up the pronunciation of a Kanji fairly easily even if you are using the Heisig method.

 

[jacf29]

On frame 395 (been doing 15 a day but just upped to 20 a day). Is it possible to continue to do 20 a day to frame 2,042 while retaining my sanity?

 

[Link1110]

I've been doing about 20 per day, haven't been going in order, instead for now at least, I've been trying to write any one I can recognize, then I'll get the ones I can't even do that with. I can write about 250 so far, and have most of the first 150 Heisig ones not counting in there yet (even though I can write them,) as I don't know any Japanese words to match the up with (though I've been learning ones.)

 

[Monroeski]

I ordered Remembering the Kanji on Monday from Amazon, Free Fedex Saver shipping, and it doesn't ship out until this coming Monday. ::sadness::

 

[RevenantKioku]

When I first started learning Kanji I personally bought a set of "Kanji drills" that Japanese elementary school children use and used those to practice. They teach you the stroke order, most of the various readings and give you a few example sentences. I realize I shouldn't knock the Heisig method because I didn't actually try it and therefore do not know how effective it is, but I am very suspicious that it is a superior method to learning Kanji in the same way that actual Japanese school children do.

The thing is, how can you even begin to compare an adult living in not-Japan and a kid living in Japan?
I wouldn't say the Heisig method would be superior for Japanese kids, but then again I'm not a Japanese kid!

Btw, to the dudes forgetting, don't forget to visualize your stories. And do your daily repetitions. They are crucial!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The thing is, how can you even begin to compare an adult living in not-Japan and a kid living in Japan?
I wouldn't say the Heisig method would be superior for Japanese kids, but then again I'm not a Japanese kid!

Btw, to the dudes forgetting, don't forget to visualize your stories. And do your daily repetitions. They are crucial!

I don't see why you can't. You are both learning Kanji for the first time. It worked well for me and I am sure others as well.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

So I've been studying for a while now...and just noticed I didn't have a kanji dictionary.

I have another Kanji book, but that's more for actual study than actual referencing like a dictionary would be. Plus that book only has the Jouyou Kanji.

So, what's a decent dictionary?

 

[YYZ]

Btw, to the dudes forgetting, don't forget to visualize your stories. And do your daily repetitions. They are crucial!

I am making flashcards, they take a long time to make (for me), but are pretty effective. Are you guys using flashcards as well? There's no point in doing so many a day without repetition, be it with flashcards or some other method. I think my goal for now is one lesson/week with repetition because my full-time job makes me tired and takes up so much of my day.

 

[Jake.]

i have gone to night classes (once a week for 2hrs) for the last year and a half, but i've missed the last seven lessons or so because i was sick/in japan/in melbourne. i am so far behind its not even funny, but i don't wanna drop out since i have paid a shitload for the course. i also work alot so when i do have free time, usually the last thing i wanna do is study. for some reason i have forgotten all of the kanji i knew (not much) and basically the only shit i remember is kana and how to introduce myself :lol. its my fault, i've been way too slack. what are my options?

 

[suffah]

I ordered Remembering the Kanji on Monday from Amazon, Free Fedex Saver shipping, and it doesn't ship out until this coming Monday. ::sadness::

You can download the first 250 kanji sample from the publisher's website. This includes the intro and whatnot.

Also, you guys are using kanji.koohii.com for your Heisig stories right? Paper flashcards are a pain in the butt and a srs will maximize your retention.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I am making flashcards, they take a long time to make (for me), but are pretty effective. Are you guys using flashcards as well? There's no point in doing so many a day without repetition, be it with flashcards or some other method. I think my goal for now is one lesson/week with repetition because my full-time job makes me tired and takes up so much of my day.

Try out anki. Saves you so much hassle.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I don't see why you can't. You are both learning Kanji for the first time. It worked well for me and I am sure others as well.

Japanese kids tend to be in Japan 24/7. They also spend a lot more time each day in school working on it. They also spend, what, 16 years working on it? It's going to be a LOT easier for them to use that methodology. I'm not saying its ineffective. It obviously works!
But, if it worked for you, I seriously applaud you. I tried those methods. It did not work for me. This worked. And a lot faster as well.

 

[jacf29]

How long should your daily repetitions take? I'm doing mine through kanji.koohii.com and they take about 1-2 hours a day. I'm only at 460 kanji. I can't imagine how long it will take me at 2,042.

 

[jacf29]

Do you need to finish the first book before moving on to the second for "Remembering the Kanji"? Or can you do both at the same time?

 

[RevenantKioku]

I use Anki, but I average around ten~twenty minutes a day on kanji. Usually about 30 kanji to review each day at this point. Logically, as time goes on once you hit the 2042 your daily reviews should be less and less. You're not reviewing 400 some kanji a day so I'm not sure what's talking you so long. Unless you're counting time you spend learning new kanji as well?
Sentences take me longer, of course, but I'm usually writing 50% of the sentences I review so that takes a lot of time.

You could work on RtK2 at the same time, but why? I wouldn't.

 

[jacf29]

I use Anki, but I average around ten~twenty minutes a day on kanji. Usually about 30 kanji to review each day at this point. Logically, as time goes on once you hit the 2042 your daily reviews should be less and less. You're not reviewing 400 some kanji a day so I'm not sure what's talking you so long. Unless you're counting time you spend learning new kanji as well?
Sentences take me longer, of course, but I'm usually writing 50% of the sentences I review so that takes a lot of time.

You could work on RtK2 at the same time, but why? I wouldn't.

I'm at 475 kanji now. Some days it gives me only 20-30 kanji to review, and other days it gives me 70-100 kanji to review. If I don't know the kanji then I will write it about 5-6 times then push the "don't remember" button. That takes a while if there are a lot i don't remember. I also spend about 20-30 minutes on the 20 new kanji a day I learn. I write all of those about 5 times each to help me remember stroke order primarily.

You would have to have a photographic memory to instantly remember the stories overnight. Most of the stories I review the day after I learned them I forget until a few days of practice ingrains them in my head.

Oh yeah to answer your question I am counting the time it takes to learn new kanji. So that's probably why it takes 1-2 hours a day. Why wouldn't you work RtK2 at the same time? Is there a disadvantage to doing that?

 

[RevenantKioku]

If you're needing to write the kanji more than ONCE a day, you're doing it wrong. A "story" isn't just some words you go over in your head, it is a visual story. Something you "see" in your mind's eye when you look at the keyword. Focus on that.

Per RtK1/2 at the same time I won't say there's a "disadvantage" because I'll be eaten alive by the traditionalists. But there is an advantage to most people by only working on smaller bits of information at first.
That and the kanji order isn't the same in both books.

 

[jacf29]

If you're needing to write the kanji more than ONCE a day, you're doing it wrong. A "story" isn't just some words you go over in your head, it is a visual story. Something you "see" in your mind's eye when you look at the keyword. Focus on that.

Per RtK1/2 at the same time I won't say there's a "disadvantage" because I'll be eaten alive by the traditionalists. But there is an advantage to most people by only working on smaller bits of information at first.
That and the kanji order isn't the same in both books.

Oh I see. So if I forget a kanji I should just write it once and reinforce the story in my head?

Also, the traditionalist say you should do both books at the same time?

 

[RevenantKioku]

Oh I see. So if I forget a kanji I should just write it once and reinforce the story in my head?

I think it's before chapter 11 where Heisig gives explicitly what you should do while learning each chapter. Go reread that.

Also, the traditionalist say you should do both books at the same time?

Traditionalists would think Heisig is a waste of time, mostly. I'm not a big fan of book 2. I mean, it's a nice reference but it's not really a method. Right now I'm learning my readings through context and that's going fairly well. I'm just having issues finding stuff I want to read. The lack of a Japanese GAF equivalent is killer. :lol

 

[Hitokage]

rk, remember when you asked why I posted this?

The thing about kanji is that it's not a completely logographic system, and even the vast majority that is logographic isn't all ideograms and pictographs. Sometimes elements are used for their pronunciation, not necessarily their meaning, like 洗（radical 水 plus phonetic &#20808 or 銅 (radical 金 plus phonetic &#21516. The Chinese just couldn't let people get away with just a reading-first or a meaning-first approach.

This is true but confusing to why it's replied to my post.

This is why.

Anyone know of a website or product to learn pronunciation of various kanji? I'm learning through Heisig's book, "Remembering the Kanji", but it doesn't teach pronunciation and I just want to be familiar with their pronunciation (not necessarily memorize) while learning how to write them.

Don't.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Well, there's the lingering feeling while doing Heisig's method that you're not learning anything, but you are. It just took a while to realize and it did stick very well for me.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but hell, it worked for me.

 

[Hitokage]

My point is that sometimes you really should learn pronunciation because that's what the characters actually mean.

 

[RevenantKioku]

My point is that sometimes you really should learn pronunciation because that's what the characters actually mean.

You say that as if I'm advocating never learning the pronunciation. Look at it this way, learning the writing and breakdown of the characters isn't learning Japanese. It's just giving you one toolset to learn Japanese. But you will learn Japanese.
Patience.

 

[Hitokage]

You say that as if I'm advocating never learning the pronunciation.

We're only talking priorities here.

Look at it this way, learning the writing and breakdown of the characters [...]

...that's just what I was talking about.

 

[jacf29]

I think it's before chapter 11 where Heisig gives explicitly what you should do while learning each chapter. Go reread that.


Traditionalists would think Heisig is a waste of time, mostly. I'm not a big fan of book 2. I mean, it's a nice reference but it's not really a method. Right now I'm learning my readings through context and that's going fairly well. I'm just having issues finding stuff I want to read. The lack of a Japanese GAF equivalent is killer. :lol

Would it be a good idea to learn from the white rabbit kanji flashcards after you are done with book one instead of going to book 2? I'm getting the feeling that book 2 is a waste of time.

And I read that part of chapter 11. He says to only write the character once while you are visualizing the story. I will try just writing it once now. Hopefully that will help make things go faster.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Maybe not chapter 11? I dunno, there's a six step list or so. I don't have the book on me.
I don't know what the white rabbit flashcards are. You talking about the readings? No. Don't learn readings through flashcards. Sentences and thereby context is what I'd recommend.

We're only talking priorities here.

This is ture.

...that's just what I was talking about.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. You want to make exceptions for certain characters because of? Or you think you should just learn everything at once?
I mean, I'm just detailing to you guys how I got a solid grasp on one part of the kanji and am now quickly making it through another part. If the idea repulses you, please don't do it!
I'm just running out of things to say on the topic. The method worked for me, and it might for you! Just don't worry about other things. Follow it, and get to the readings later. Or, if you think you can do it all at once, feel free to try! I just couldn't do it.

 

[jacf29]

Maybe not chapter 11? I dunno, there's a six step list or so. I don't have the book on me.
I don't know what the white rabbit flashcards are. You talking about the readings? No. Don't learn readings through flashcards. Sentences and thereby context is what I'd recommend.


This is ture.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. You want to make exceptions for certain characters because of? Or you think you should just learn everything at once?
I mean, I'm just detailing to you guys how I got a solid grasp on one part of the kanji and am now quickly making it through another part. If the idea repulses you, please don't do it!
I'm just running out of things to say on the topic. The method worked for me, and it might for you! Just don't worry about other things. Follow it, and get to the readings later. Or, if you think you can do it all at once, feel free to try! I just couldn't do it.

So you just use an electronic dictionary while you try and find out what the sentences mean? Don't you need to learn the compounds before you can do that?

 

[RevenantKioku]

So you just use an electronic dictionary while you try and find out what the sentences mean? Don't you need to learn the compounds before you can do that?

Before I can do what? Look up words? No.

 

[jacf29]

Before I can do what? Look up words? No.

I'm sorry. I'm just a bit confused. For example, you find this sentence on Asahi Shinbun's web site "偽１万円札をスーパーで使ったとして、石川県警は５日未明、金沢市と同県白山市に住む１４歳の中学３年生女子２人を偽造通貨行使容疑で逮捕した." How would you go about looking up the words for it? Is this where you need the 2nd book?

 

[RevenantKioku]

I'm sorry. I'm just a bit confused. For example, you find this sentence on Asahi Shinbun's web site "偽１万円札をスーパーで使ったとして、石川県警は５日未明、金沢市と同県白山市に住む１４歳の中学３年生女子２人を偽造通貨行使容疑で逮捕した." How would you go about looking up the words for it? Is this where you need the 2nd book?

Copy/paste into dictionary. When I'm reading things not on the computer I use my DS to look up words.

 

[jacf29]

Copy/paste into dictionary. When I'm reading things not on the computer I use my DS to look up words.

Do you have any dictionaries you would recommend on the computer? So you copy and paste it into a dictionary, then what? If this has been mentioned earlier in the thread I apologize, as its a big thread and a lot to read through.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Do you have any dictionaries you would recommend on the computer? So you copy and paste it into a dictionary, then what? If this has been mentioned earlier in the thread I apologize, as its a big thread and a lot to read through.

I'm not trying to belittle you, but it's a dictionary. Isn't that a bit self-explanatory? I see what the word's reading is and it's meaning and then usually I take the extra step of adding an example sentence using the word into my flashcard software.
OS X has JEDict which is good software for straight up J-E and has a built in dictionary that has a decent J-E for example sentences and a J-J dictionary that I'm working towards being able to use.

 

[jacf29]

I'm not trying to belittle you, but it's a dictionary. Isn't that a bit self-explanatory? I see what the word's reading is and it's meaning and then usually I take the extra step of adding an example sentence using the word into my flashcard software.
OS X has JEDict which is good software for straight up J-E and has a built in dictionary that has a decent J-E for example sentences and a J-J dictionary that I'm working towards being able to use.

Oh I didn't clarify what I meant with my question. I thought when you entered the kanji into a dictionary, it just gave you the English equivalent, and not the reading as well.

What textbook do you use for your Japanese grammar?

 

[RevenantKioku]

Using the ones listed in the OP. I need to get the third one, but I haven't been out shopping in a while.
Anyone know of any interesting podcasts? I'd like to pretend listening to the news is enough to me, but that's a lie. :lol

 

[jacf29]

Using the ones listed in the OP. I need to get the third one, but I haven't been out shopping in a while.
Anyone know of any interesting podcasts? I'd like to pretend listening to the news is enough to me, but that's a lie. :lol

I just listen to yomiuri and nhk news podcasts. It's not the news element that is annoying to me but the same tunes in every podcasts. I dream of those annoying tunes sometimes.

I'm sure the tunes wouldn't be annoying if I wasn't listening to the podcasts 4-5 times a day each.

As for grammar books, I'm using Situational Functional Japanese Volumes 1-3. I'll get your books in addition because these simply do not do enough.

Hopefully I at least get to 2,042 kanji and on to the second book before I move to Japan in September.

 

[mAcOdIn]

So anyways, after the whole anime fansub debate where I was basically told to learn the language if I so want to enjoy the original work I decided to give it a go and got these Pimsleur CD's.

What the fuck? So like the first 2 chapters(2 on each CD) are asking if you speak English or Japanese and if you're American or not. For 2 fucking chapters. Ok so maybe it moves slow. Well I'm up to chapter 7, and yes I've learned some words, yes I can say all the statements and make my own sentences with the words provided with the exception of one word(s) that I'm just not sure of, but I'm really starting to wonder about this set.

After like 2 chapters of discussing whether I'm an American or not and if I can speak Japanese we get to asking for directions. All right some meat I think, now I'm on to something. Well chapter 6 and 7 really throw me for a loop. So in this scenario you basically yell out to some stranger and ask directions. Fine, kinda rude but hey if you're lost I guess people can accept a foreigner being silly and unprepared. So directions are asked directions are given and the chapter ends with some shit you don't understand. Fine.

Next chapter picks up with you asking random strangers for directions then asking if they want to eat over at your place. What the fuck? Is that a custom or just who the hell are these cd's aimed at? I thought a response more appropriate would be like thanks for your time, any suggestions where to eat or some shit but it just launches into this shit, like hey thirsty wanna get a drink at my place?

Edit: Maybe chapter 8 and 9 will deal with asking names?

So I'm kinda pissed because I'm almost halfway through this course and I fear all I'll be able to do is ask for directions and try and pick up chicks. Long story short don't buy the Pimsleur CD's.

 

[jacf29]

So anyways, after the whole anime fansub debate where I was basically told to learn the language if I so want to enjoy the original work I decided to give it a go and got these Pimsleur CD's.

What the fuck? So like the first 2 chapters(2 on each CD) are asking if you speak English or Japanese and if you're American or not. For 2 fucking chapters. Ok so maybe it moves slow. Well I'm up to chapter 7, and yes I've learned some words, yes I can say all the statements and make my own sentences with the words provided with the exception of one word(s) that I'm just not sure of, but I'm really starting to wonder about this set.

After like 2 chapters of discussing whether I'm an American or not and if I can speak Japanese we get to asking for directions. All right some meat I think, now I'm on to something. Well chapter 6 and 7 really throw me for a loop. So in this scenario you basically yell out to some stranger and ask directions. Fine, kinda rude but hey if you're lost I guess people can accept a foreigner being silly and unprepared. So directions are asked directions are given and the chapter ends with some shit you don't understand. Fine.

Next chapter picks up with you asking random strangers for directions then asking if they want to eat over at your place. What the fuck? Is that a custom or just who the hell are these cd's aimed at? I thought a response more appropriate would be like thanks for your time, any suggestions where to eat or some shit but it just launches into this shit, like hey thirsty wanna get a drink at my place?

Edit: Maybe chapter 8 and 9 will deal with asking names?

So I'm kinda pissed because I'm almost halfway through this course and I fear all I'll be able to do is ask for directions and try and pick up chicks. Long story short don't buy the Pimsleur CD's.

I just finished lesson 30 and it gets better. It's still fairly easy at lesson 30, but supposingly lesson 31-90 are more challenging.

 

[Axalon]

The end of chapter 9 in Pimsleur is comedy gold.

Also, I like Pimsleur. It's not super fast "learn Japanese in the 5 minute drive to the ATM", but rather takes the time to become familiar with the vocab and have it really sink in.

Though, personally, I wouldn't use any one piece of learning material exclusively. I'd be looking at other things too.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Oh, yeah. I got books and other tapes as well, it's just this is the main one I listen to, the others voices are kinda hard to make out and turned me off. Make no mistake I don't expect much actually from 16 70 minute CD's since that's a drop in the bucket as far as languages are concerned. Still need to buy a new dictionary as the one I got sucks and a grammar book.

And it's not so much the pace that slays me, it's where they go with a conversation within the confines of logic that gets me. I don't expect a 5 minute lesson as I don't think I can learn anything in 5 minutes, except maybe how to swim after being thrown into a pool. Looking forward to 9 I'll probably be there tomorrow after going through 7 and 8 a few more times to really get it to sink in.