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[RevenantKioku]

Just thought I'd chime in since it's been about a year since I finished Heisig.

What a fucking good idea that was. Hot damn.

I am flying through manga right now, only having to pick up the dictionary for the occasional word I don't get. And getting a surprisingly number of them right due to context or general idea of the kanji's meaning. Furigana is still a bit of a necessity but I'm doing fine.

Studying for the JLPT 2級 and fuck if it isn't nice to be able to go through the grammar book without ever worrying about learning new kanjii. Been plowing through grammar points like a madman.

And I've been watching a retarded amount of anime and drama, listening to too many podcasts and it's all really starting to come together. Fluent I am not yet, but it's really starting to feel more solid.

I was at a meeting the other day, to talk about elementary English education and it wasn't until about halfway through the dude's speech that I actually thought about the fact that it was in Japanese and I was understanding everything.

So awesome.

 

[Synth_floyd]

王者usually means champion. If you want to say "I'm the king of Street fighter." You'd just use 王 (you don't say things like -sama or -san when talking about yourself). If you want to say "I'm the champion of street fighter" then you can use 王者.

 

[Kaeru]

Just thought I'd chime in since it's been about a year since I finished Heisig.

What a fucking good idea that was. Hot damn.

I am flying through manga right now, only having to pick up the dictionary for the occasional word I don't get. And getting a surprisingly number of them right due to context or general idea of the kanji's meaning. Furigana is still a bit of a necessity but I'm doing fine.

Studying for the JLPT 2級 and fuck if it isn't nice to be able to go through the grammar book without ever worrying about learning new kanjii. Been plowing through grammar points like a madman.

And I've been watching a retarded amount of anime and drama, listening to too many podcasts and it's all really starting to come together. Fluent I am not yet, but it's really starting to feel more solid.

I was at a meeting the other day, to talk about elementary English education and it wasn't until about halfway through the dude's speech that I actually thought about the fact that it was in Japanese and I was understanding everything.

So awesome.

Im about 650 kanjis into RTK1 so you are pretty much where I wanna be a year from now(or even less).
For how long have you been studying seriously?

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

Okay using the methods outlined in this thread, I'm at the point where I can fly through Manga too. But....

My current problem is complete and total lack of listening comprehension and how do I fix this?

Just as an example:
I just started playing Lost Odyssey in Japanese, and while I can go through the villages and text-based scenes with 90% understanding(besides generally some random words that half the time are made up by the game).

Once those folks start talking they truly are speaking the moon-man language to me. I've got this weird thing going on where due to the fact I've learned the language from Kanji(besides the really basic stuff I already knew), when people talk beyond basic conversational topics. I start trying to think up what kanji they possible could be saying, and by the time I've got the first word parsed out, They have finished two sentences.


Not too mention my hearing is garbage, I have trouble just hearing spoken English, - Have to watch movies with subtitles a lot.

The only method I see is to go back to really really basic listening tasks and basically start all over in my learning of Japanese, which is something I really don't want to do if it can be avoided.

Since the original method outline in this thread worked so well for my reading, any tips on listening comprehension?

 

[zoku88]

You are indeed correct.

(I'm assuming that your computer can read hiragana)

を= wo but is pronounced 'o'
は= ha but is pronounced 'wa' when a particle

There's also
へ -- that's pronounced e, right? (like hana-kimi's full title)

 

[Mik2121]

Yep, へ reads as 'e' when using it for places (going to---, etc).

I've studied Japanese for two years and now I'm on a design school in Osaka where 99% of the students are Japanese and they treat me like just another student and not a 'foreigner' (talking slowly, etc..), which is kind of nice. Plus the language is quite easy, except for some Kanjis.... damn stupid Kanjis!

Btw, JLPT2級 is quite on the easy side if you ask me (compared to the 1級 kanji crazyness). However, passing that test =/= being able to have casual conversations with Japanese people. I had this classmate back when I was studying Japanese who would get 100%'s on her JLPT1級 training tests and yet every time she talked with us or with the teachers, she sounded so damn weird. Best thing for being able to have conversations is actually speaking with Japanese people or people who can speak it fluently, watching TV, reading and practicing a lot.

 

[Mik2121]

Sorry to bump an old topic, figure this wasn't a big enough question to warrant its own thread. Can someone help me clear up some confusion. The book I have doesn't really explain it well.

日本へ留学するんです。

日本へ留学するの。

The above two sentences are the same right? Book says the 2nd one is the contracted male form of the first one. However, it feels like the 2nd one is a question while the first one isn't. It also doesn't help that I don't really get what the first one is saying. What does the -ん do to the sentence?

Using の might sound a bit femenine, but it's not really like "woah this guy must be ghey" kind of level. Also, remember to not get confused with the の when asking. If you want to ask in a casual way, you can use の instead of か.

In the first sentence you copied, besides sounding a bit weird, the ん is the short for の when you are explaining something. But I would add よ at the end of that phrase to make it look a bit better. Still, that kind of phrase is what you use when talking to people you either don't know, or on a higher rank than you (not like your Boss, for that you would need to use more formal sentences), etc.. but for friends you could use:

日本へ留学するんだよ

日本へ留学するわよ (this is a bit femenine as well, but it's OK.)

日本へ留学するのよ

etc...

You could use things like the Kansai (mostly Osaka) accent (関西弁/大阪&#24321 and say stuff like 日本へ留学するやで, etc.. but you would need to speak like that all the time or otherwise it would sound weird.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

Best thing for being able to have conversations is actually speaking with Japanese people or people who can speak it fluently, watching TV, reading and practicing a lot.

Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous for me though, Due to the amount of reading I've done, I've gotten to the point where I can read just about anything. But once I start having any type of complex conversation, I'm just dead in the water. It's really annoying to basically have to go back to the basic conjugation step of the language learning, because while my brain can read it quickly with no problem, knows the rules, and can produce a sentence fine if you give me a minute. This doesn't work for conversations.

(besides again for the basic conversation phrases I've picked up, which just come to me naturally, I don't think of them in any type of language sense)

 

[TheFatOne]

I'm trying to teach myself Japanese. I know the hiragana and katakana. I also have Genki 1 and am buying the dictionaries on the first page. What is a good way to learn the kanji? I know the OP wrote about Heisig but I tried it and it just wasn't for me.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

I'm trying to teach myself Japanese. I know the hiragana and katakana. I also have Genki 1 and am buying the dictionaries on the first page. What is a good way to learn the kanji? I know the OP wrote about Heisig but I tried it and it just wasn't for me.

Heisig will work if you give it time!, Once you have the first 50 or so kanji under your belt everything becomes so easy...

So my only other suggestion is just cram the kanji in the back of the Genki 1 book, attached them to japanese words/vocab get them into your head, and then Heisig will become an easy possibility(or modified form of of it).

I almost wish I could be where you are at, starting out on the language is so easy. It's once you get to intermediate point and your skills are incredibly uneven that the language learning gets hard.

I still would like any suggestions for someone who can read fairly well, but can't for the life of him parse out non-basic spoken sentences.

 

[TheFatOne]

Ok once you finish the Heisig book what do you do next? DO you learn the readings and meanings next? What is the next step after RTK?

 

[TheFatOne]

One last question should I do the Genki series book and Heisig book at the same time?Anyone want to help me out?

 

[Extollere]

Hrmmmm I want to learn Japanese so I can read manga (which I've been told aren't that hard to read). I've got some very little Japanese language education under my belt, but not nearly enough to read. Damn Kanji. Then there's the whole vocabulary and grammar thing too.

 

[derder]

I got into Japanese 101 at my college!

 

[TheFatOne]

Can anyone give me a hand. Please answer my questions if you can.

 

[zoku88]

I got into Japanese 101 at my college!

Do they... refuse ppl?

 

[derder]

Do they... refuse ppl?

There's only 22 seats for 33,000 students.

I've been trying to get into the class for 4 years.

 

[suffah]

Not sure if your college is any different, but college Japanese classes were pretty bad at my school. You'll learn the kana + 100 kanji + basic grammar in the first year...which you can learn on your own in 6 weeks. Plus you have to deal with the weird otaku nerds taking the class.

 

[zoku88]

There's only 22 seats for 33,000 students.

I've been trying to get into the class for 4 years.

Oh wow, that's horrible.

In my school (of 4K undergrads and 4K grads about,) they accept almost everyone.

There are three levels of Japanese (with two classes for each level) Each class has multiple sections a day, each section limited to about 16-22 or so students.

My class has like 4 sections, I believe.

The 1st semester class has like, 6-7? I forget

Not sure if your college is any different, but college Japanese classes were pretty bad at my school. You'll learn the kana + 100 kanji + basic grammar in the first year...which you can learn on your own in 6 weeks. Plus you have to deal with the weird otaku nerds taking the class.

Classes are good for speaking skills, though, since (at least my school) is taught by native jpn speakers. The intonation is important.

 

[derder]

Not sure if your college is any different, but college Japanese classes were pretty bad at my school. You'll learn the kana + 100 kanji + basic grammar in the first year...which you can learn on your own in 6 weeks. Plus you have to deal with the weird otaku nerds taking the class.

I'm going to try and get a Japanese minor. But I hope to god it's not like that.

 

[TheFatOne]

How long does it normally take to finish remember the kanji? What is a good pace to learn the kanji?

 

[zoku88]

How long does it normally take to finish remember the kanji? What is a good pace to learn the kanji?

All of them?

 

[sasimirobot]

After 1 month in China my Japanese has actually gotten better, and Chinese is easier because of Japanese.

You learn alot of the Chinese readings quickly, and while they are not always directly related to Japanese it helps.


A basic example:

Chinese 电话 tian wa
Japanese 電話 den wa

the Chinese reading is very similar.

 

[TheFatOne]

All of them?

Just the first one

 

[zoku88]

Just the first one

I know that reply is a joke, but a lot of people never quite learn all of them...

 

[Carton]

I know that reply is a joke, but a lot of people never quite learn all of them...

I think he was asking how long it takes to finish the first book of 'Remembering the Kanji'.

 

[yjs666]

Hey guys, need some advice here. I'm on holidays for about 3 months and decided to spend some of that time learning languages, and Japanese it is. I'll also be improving my Chinese at the same time.

Now, I studied 3 years of Japanese at a high-school level (years 8-10) which consisted mostly of simple stuff like basic vocab and grammar, but I remembered hiragana and katakana and kanji poses no issues (I know Chinese) apart from remembering which reading to use.

So basically my goal is to put some of my existing knowledge of Japanese and make a start on actually knowing the language properly. To me, reading and writing is more important than speaking .

What should I start out on? Are there any decent textbooks out there? Thanks in advance.

 

[suffah]

How long does it normally take to finish remember the kanji? What is a good pace to learn the kanji?

If you do 25 a day like I did, about ~3 months.

I just finished book 1 a second time. This time I used Japanese keywords instead of the default english words. Took me ~5 months this time around, since I was working on sentences/vocab as well.

 

[suffah]

Hey guys, need some advice here. I'm on holidays for about 3 months and decided to spend some of that time learning languages, and Japanese it is. I'll also be improving my Chinese at the same time.

Now, I studied 3 years of Japanese at a high-school level (years 8-10) which consisted mostly of simple stuff like basic vocab and grammar, but I remembered hiragana and katakana and kanji poses no issues (I know Chinese) apart from remembering which reading to use.

So basically my goal is to put some of my existing knowledge of Japanese and make a start on actually knowing the language properly. To me, reading and writing is more important than speaking .

What should I start out on? Are there any decent textbooks out there? Thanks in advance.

I would say just jump in and start reading real stuff. Read some basic manga with furigana. What do you hope to learn from textbooks? You'll learn kana and basic grammar/vocab, which you already know.

I know it sounds crazy, but it works. It's how I started (after I had RtK, kana, and basic grammar under my belt). A year and a half after reading manga, I had the same mindset regarding novels and literature. "How do I get started reading novels?" Well, I just went to the store, bought a few, and started reading. And it worked.

 

[zoku88]

I think he was asking how long it takes to finish the first book of 'Remembering the Kanji'.

OOOH, haha

 

[Masked Man]

I'm trying to teach myself Japanese. I know the hiragana and katakana. I also have Genki 1 and am buying the dictionaries on the first page. What is a good way to learn the kanji? I know the OP wrote about Heisig but I tried it and it just wasn't for me.

Practice. Say the various readings as you write the characters, and write them over and over. It's a little tedious, but it's generally pretty effective. I might also suggest writing a few basic sentences with them, just so you have a context. I did Genki 1 on my own this summer and it took all of... 6 weeks or so? It's totally feasible.

I haven't done Heisig, but I highly recommend the Basic Kanji Books by Bonjinsha. Deliciousness. I've been using Anki (essentially the Heisig method) with the second volume of the Basic Kanji Books, and it's pretty effective. I think I do it backward (view the kanji, produce the reading and meaning), but I don't have problems with writing things--it's conversation that's my downfall. (Then again, I've only been studying the language for about four or five months, the first of which was essentially without any real conversation.)

Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous for me though, Due to the amount of reading I've done, I've gotten to the point where I can read just about anything. But once I start having any type of complex conversation, I'm just dead in the water. It's really annoying to basically have to go back to the basic conjugation step of the language learning, because while my brain can read it quickly with no problem, knows the rules, and can produce a sentence fine if you give me a minute. This doesn't work for conversations.

(besides again for the basic conversation phrases I've picked up, which just come to me naturally, I don't think of them in any type of language sense)

Yeah, that's kind of like me. I'm not, like, conversationally-incompetent, and my listening comprehension is getting better, it's just a speed thing. Maybe I'm just pushing myself too hard and/or expecting too much too soon. As one of my very-fluent, non-native mentors put it, it's a skill that you develop over time. With practice and conversation comes fluency.

So, slightly trite though it may be, the best advice is probably just 頑張って. :lol

 

[Angelus Errare]

Okay using the methods outlined in this thread, I'm at the point where I can fly through Manga too. But....

My current problem is complete and total lack of listening comprehension and how do I fix this?

Just as an example:
I just started playing Lost Odyssey in Japanese, and while I can go through the villages and text-based scenes with 90% understanding(besides generally some random words that half the time are made up by the game).

Once those folks start talking they truly are :lol to me. I've got this weird thing going on where due to the fact I've learned the language from Kanji(besides the really basic stuff I already knew), when people talk beyond basic conversational topics. I start trying to think up what kanji they possible could be saying, and by the time I've got the first word parsed out, They have finished two sentences.


Not too mention my hearing is garbage, I have trouble just hearing spoken English, - Have to watch movies with subtitles a lot.

The only method I see is to go back to really really basic listening tasks and basically start all over in my learning of Japanese, which is something I really don't want to do if it can be avoided.

Since the original method outline in this thread worked so well for my reading, any tips on listening comprehension?

Dude the moon man part had me in tears, I'm using that when referring to other languages from now on.

As for listening comprehension, there is no easy way. Just watch Japanese movies and keep playing Japanese games without subtitles, it'll help you adapt to speech quicker, subtitles will slow you down.

 

[suffah]

I still would like any suggestions for someone who can read fairly well, but can't for the life of him parse out non-basic spoken sentences.

We're in the exact same boat. This is what I'm doing to try to get my listening/dialog up to my reading level:

I'm using the dictation part of iKnow. The vocab and grammar is easy as hell..until you try to transcibe what you just heard. (F the male VA, he mumbles a lot!) I've just started it, but I don't see how doing this 30 mins a day can hurt. The sentences are spoken by professional Japanese voice actors, too.

Have random Japanese noise on in the background.

Meeting regularly with a language-exchange partner.

I'm hoping these will be enough to bring me up to speed.

 

[Mœbius]

Well there's a week-and-a-half until JLPT and I have to say i'm quite nervous; I haven't sat a proper exam since I was at University and that was a while ago. Funny thing is i've been totally fine about it since all year; was even fine when I started doing mock papers about a month ago, but the nerves just kicked in about a week ago.

How are fellow JLPT Gaffers dealing with the lead up? Cramming or just carrying on as normal?

 

[sasimirobot]

+

+
1000s of hours

=

somewhat good at kanzi

 

[Masked Man]

Neat! We never got formal instruction on how to use the grid paper properly, so I appreciate it. どうも！

 

[RevenantKioku]

Didn't think the JLPT was all that bad, but I'm not sure if I passed or not. There was just so much vocab. Some I could guess thanks to Heisig, but we'll see how the results are. I think I need to start reading more news or something.

I tried not to laugh when one of the listening questions was about a yoga position. Thanks WiiFit!

 

[angelfly]

Need a bit of help. I was talking to someone last night on Home and before leaving the guy sent me another username but I'm not sure what it's for. The message was "&#26412;&#12450;&#12459;&#12399;<username>&#12391;&#12377;". Can someone help me out as to what "&#26412;&#12450;&#12459;" is referring to?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Need a bit of help. I was talking to someone last night on Home and before leaving the guy sent me another username but I'm not sure what it's for. The message was "&#26412;&#12450;&#12459;&#12399;<username>&#12391;&#12377;". Can someone help me out as to what "&#26412;&#12450;&#12459;" is referring to?

&#26412; in this case, means "main" or "real".
&#12450;&#12459; is an abbreviation for &#12450;&#12459;&#12454;&#12531;&#12488;.

So he was just telling you that "My main account is <username>"

&#26412;&#65288;&#12411;&#12435;&#65289; has a lot of uses. For example it is often used to mean "this". Ex. "&#26412;&#12463;&#12521;&#12473;" can me "This class".

Hope that helps!

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

To further our task of MASTERING THE JAPANESE I think it would be nice to create a list of JP games that can best aid us in our strategy.

So many games lately are just infected with MOE Voice and obscure old-school language, thousands of vocab words about different slicing and dicing methods, that they are an inefficient tool for our language learning means.

So let me put forth the first suggestion of

SHENMU,

Unless you are going to take up being an adventuer/ joining the army. I think few games could prepare you better for casual life in Japan then this game,
You've got voice and text, The language runs the gamut from everyday conversational requests/topics/apologies, from extremly polite to I'm about to smashed your head in. Plus you get the benefit of hearing the exact same requests over and over and over again! . Almost everything everyone says in this game that isn't connected the main storyline can be of use to you in Real-life.

(Besides the really stereotypical image of foreigner's Japanese, When Tom is using advance Grammar structures and vocab, yet is having to say Father and Green in English, something is up)

___

Now if you want games that you can just relax, take a break and play I suggest going with DS RPGS, I've been playing through a bunch of them lately, and the language really seems to be watered down a whole bunch. My entire Play-through of Winds of Nostalgia, there were maybe only a handful of words I hadn't already learned, generally tied to some strange thing in the story.

___

So, can anyone else chime in on game suggestions as to what's best for furthering our Japanese learning skills?

 

[angelfly]

&#26412; in this case, means "main" or "real".
&#12450;&#12459; is an abbreviation for &#12450;&#12459;&#12454;&#12531;&#12488;.

So he was just telling you that "My main account is <username>"

&#26412;&#65288;&#12411;&#12435;&#65289; has a lot of uses. For example it is often used to mean "this". Ex. "&#26412;&#12463;&#12521;&#12473;" can me "This class".

Hope that helps!

Thanks

 

[Masked Man]

Didn't think the JLPT was all that bad, but I'm not sure if I passed or not. There was just so much vocab. Some I could guess thanks to Heisig, but we'll see how the results are. I think I need to start reading more news or something.

I tried not to laugh when one of the listening questions was about a yoga position. Thanks WiiFit!

Then again, it was 2kyuu, so the fact that you were willing enough to take it in the first place is quite impressive. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

And :lol at the yoga question. I'll have to brush up on my Wii Fit before I take the JLPT in 2010. (I'll be in Kyoto from September through April of 2009-10.)

&#26412; in this case, means "main" or "real".
&#12450;&#12459; is an abbreviation for &#12450;&#12459;&#12454;&#12531;&#12488;.

So he was just telling you that "My main account is <username>"

&#26412;&#65288;&#12411;&#12435;&#65289; has a lot of uses. For example it is often used to mean "this". Ex. "&#26412;&#12463;&#12521;&#12473;" can me "This class".

Hope that helps!

Thanks for indirectly teaching me as well.

Spoiler

Ever since I began reading this thread, I have been associating octopi with Japanese fluency, lol.

 

[YuriLowell]

I just found this thread, and I am a little confused.

I want to start learning Japanese.
I only know a couple of phrases and no Kanji at all.

Where would be a good place to start.
This all seems very daunting to me.

Thanks.

 

[Brofist]

I just found this thread, and I am a little confused.

I want to start learning Japanese.
I only know a couple of phrases and no Kanji at all.

Where would be a good place to start.
This all seems very daunting to me.

Thanks.

You could probably start by reading the very first post of this topic.

Then again, it was 2kyuu, so the fact that you were willing enough to take it in the first place is quite impressive. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

Honestly for all of the talking and patting himself on the back he has done in this topic, I would have thought his level was better than "maybe passing 2kyu"

 

[YuriLowell]

I just ordered the Remembering the Kanji book from amazon.
Hopefully Classes will be easier this semester so I can have more time.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

Honestly for all of the talking and patting himself on the back he has done in this topic, I would have thought his level was better than "maybe passing 2kyu"

Well, The thing about this method outline in this thread is that it isn't for learning for 2-kyu, It's a far more practical language reading based approach. with the method in this thread you can trick yourself into thinking you are far better then you are(nothing like pick ing up a book and being able to quickly skim through the meaning of it, however chances are in doing so you are getting several kanji readings wrong, and perhapses misinterpreting things. )

you can learn to understand some types of media, but then be completely lost in others or not really understand grammatical concepts.

As someone who's tried both the class book methods and the method outline in this thread, it just amazed me the amount of random grammar they have on the 2-kyu that is hardly ever used in non-academic modern day writing or conversations.

 

[Shirokun]

The amazing has happened...

I had a dream in Japanese, and everything made sense. It was not just the usual dream gibberish, but well spoken, fully understandable Japanese.

I feel like a mile stone has been reached. How long did it take some of you before this started happening?

 

[zoku88]

&#26412; in this case, means "main" or "real".
&#12450;&#12459; is an abbreviation for &#12450;&#12459;&#12454;&#12531;&#12488;.

So he was just telling you that "My main account is <username>"

&#26412;&#65288;&#12411;&#12435;&#65289; has a lot of uses. For example it is often used to mean "this". Ex. "&#26412;&#12463;&#12521;&#12473;" can me "This class".

Hope that helps!

Just as an aside, it can be easily seen with the word &#26412;&#24403; &#12300;&#12411;&#12435;&#12392;&#12358;&#12301; , which means truth, which most ppl learning japanese would be familiar with.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well, The thing about this method outline in this thread is that it isn't for learning for 2-kyu, It's a far more practical language reading based approach. with the method in this thread you can trick yourself into thinking you are far better then you are(nothing like pick ing up a book and being able to quickly skim through the meaning of it, however chances are in doing so you are getting several kanji readings wrong, and perhapses misinterpreting things. )

you can learn to understand some types of media, but then be completely lost in others or not really understand grammatical concepts.

As someone who's tried both the class book methods and the method outline in this thread, it just amazed me the amount of random grammar they have on the 2-kyu that is hardly ever used in non-academic modern day writing or conversations.

You know I hear this a lot about the JLPT. I have only taken 1-kyu, once, back in 2005, but there was nothing on the test or in the study materials I used that seemed obscure or seemed to be "something that is hardly ever used". I think this whole thing was started by people who think very highly of their Japanese abilities yet didn't do as well as they hoped on the JLPT.

 

[rotaryspirit]

You know I hear this a lot about the JLPT. I have only taken 1-kyu, once, back in 2005, but there was nothing on the test or in the study materials I used that seemed obscure or seemed to be "something that is hardly ever used". I think this whole thing was started by people who think very highly of their Japanese abilities yet didn't do as well as they hoped on the JLPT.

I'd agree with this. I'm preparing for 1kyu, hopefully taking it next winter, and I've gone over a ton of the 2kyu practice tests - at times it seems like the questions and grammar was lifted straight from my second year university textbook. It is one thing to understand and be able to hold conversations with people, it is something different entirely to be able to wrap your mind around it and answer questions without any other kind of key. In conversation/reading comics/watching TV, there are visual and audial clues that give information about what is going on, whereas on a test either you know the material and can recall it with only the characters as visuals, or you can't. There isn't much outside of that to help.