Support NeoGAF

[mujun]

Wow I forgot about this thread. I remember when I first tried Remember The Kanji I could not remember any of them. I put off learning Japanese until recently.The problem I had was that I wasn't making vivid enough stories. I restarted RTK again and I am actually remembering the kanji from the keyword. I can do about 50 a day comfortably. This is my third day of RTK and I can remember about 86% of the kanji I have studied so far. On my first try it took me 2 months to remember 60 kanji, but now I can recognize over 120 kanji (learned them in three days) . At this pace I will finish in about a month in a half.

I was wondering what to do next. I think I will do Tae Kim>KO2001(Kanji Odyssey 2001), but I am not sure. Anyone have any suggestions?

Edit: I am not sure if this site has been posted but its awesome. It's a site that works like anki where you can share your stories with other people. It is really helpful when you can't think of a story.

http://kanji.koohii.com/

I use the kanji program on Facebook. It's pretty damned good and free.

 

[GMB]

Finished RTK 1 on the 10th, after 3 years of having the book im finally fucking finished. I still need to work on my retention of some kanji, but its great to be finished for the most part.

Any idea of where to go or what to do next?

I would also like to know this.

Im on my way home from Japan after a 12 day vacation here, and I figured I would study some for real when I get home, and in the future eventually go to Japan to study it.

Anyone got any recommendations for when you are done with RTK1? Or any other things to read while doing the RTK1?
Should I just brute force some dictionary for learning the readings later on or what?

Read some earlier in the thread about how you will learn the meaning of each kanji later on "in context"...


Also, was thinking about maybe getting some childrens books to read. Anyone got any tips here? Read that someone here in the thread used to do it.

 

[Metroid Killer]

I want to buy these books (along with the the third 'dict. of advanced japanese'). But in Denmark they are really expensive, so I'm currently in Japan on vacation where the books are much cheaper. Any bookstores in Kyoto or Tokyo that have them for certain?

I have now searched through several bookstores in Kyoto and none of them have these books... I'm going to Tokyo in a few days, anyone knows of some big bookstores that whould have these books?

 

[Geneijin]

^Didn't really used this to learn kana, but it helped me recognize them for gaming purposes.

 

[Mik2121]

To learn Hiragana and Katakana your best option is to read lots of kids books (they are usually either in hiragana or hiragana and kanjis with yomigana/furigana (hiragana next to them showing the pronunciation).

And also, of course, writing them all the time. If you practice enough, it shouldn't take you more than two weeks to memorize both Hiragana and Katakana.

 

[Lafiel]

So I got myself full of purpose and decided to learn some proper japanese, since three and a half languages is something that looks really good on a publicist's resume, and even more so if your specialty is gaming!

I found this japanese teacher that will be coming one hour to my place every week, and for the first lesson he gave me the rundown on both hiragana and katakana. Now I have to learn them first thing before I can go any further. Do any of you know of an application or online resource to learn them? Like a guide, an application or anything. I usually prefer reading and/or studying on my computer (and I have a Wacom Intuos, so I won't be spending a shitload of paper practising those suckas).

Thanks in advance!

My advice use this site http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Shrine/7047/hboth.htm (it's sorta in the op) get a list of japanese words or names (like your favorite anime / manga / jpn games characters for example) in hiragana / katakana, and repeatedly hand-write them over and over, it's how i learned to memorize both hiragana & katakana.

 

[rex64]

Kana are sooo easy, don't worry you'll learn them in one week top.


btw, dude write on paper, not with some funky pc pen

 

[RevenantKioku]

Read some earlier in the thread about how you will learn the meaning of each kanji later on "in context"...

Yep, so get on getting into context! Get some manga you want to read (Took me a while to find something I like, but that right now is Crayon Shinchan. Dragonball is also good.) games or whatever. Then get your trusty dictionary out and get cracking.

 

[Zalasta]

Trying to decide how to approach in learning Kanji, more so the pronounciation and usage. With Mandarin being my native language and although I've been living in the US for over 20 years, I still consider myself fluent. So while I won't necessarily be able to write a lot of the characters on command, I certainly have no problem recognizing them. In fact, I still read my manga in Chinese and prefer subtitles in Chinese whenever I watch Chinese movies/TV shows. So I'm wondering if I could just skip the Heisig method and dive straight into the grammar, then picking up the pronounciation as I go from there. That seems to be the progression as recommended in this thread.

 

[TheFatOne]

I would also like to know this.

Im on my way home from Japan after a 12 day vacation here, and I figured I would study some for real when I get home, and in the future eventually go to Japan to study it.

Anyone got any recommendations for when you are done with RTK1? Or any other things to read while doing the RTK1?
Should I just brute force some dictionary for learning the readings later on or what?

Read some earlier in the thread about how you will learn the meaning of each kanji later on "in context"...


Also, was thinking about maybe getting some childrens books to read. Anyone got any tips here? Read that someone here in the thread used to do it.

Well it seems like we are in the same boat. I have read a ton on what to do after RTK and I think I have settled on a plan. . After RTK I am going to start learning some grammar using Tae Kim Guide to Japanese grammar. Once I have finished that I am going to start Kanji Odyssey 2001 . It is a little pricey, but it looks like a solid source of sentences. You can read more about it here

Edit: I just wanted to be clear. I will be mining sentences from Tae Kim's guide. So that I can learn the grammar and new words at the same time. If you want something free instead of KO2001 then go for smart.fm core 2000. Core 2000 is nice because it is much easier to put the sentences and audio into anki or so I read:lol. Just so you know I haven't tried either KO2001 or Core2000 because I am not there yet. I just wanted to let people know some options I found. In thread on another site people discuss the advantages and disadvantages of KO2001 and Core 2000

 

[RevenantKioku]

Trying to decide how to approach in learning Kanji, more so the pronounciation and usage. With Mandarin being my native language and although I've been living in the US for over 20 years, I still consider myself fluent. So while I won't necessarily be able to write a lot of the characters on command, I certainly have no problem recognizing them. In fact, I still read my manga in Chinese and prefer subtitles in Chinese whenever I watch Chinese movies/TV shows. So I'm wondering if I could just skip the Heisig method and dive straight into the grammar, then picking up the pronounciation as I go from there. That seems to be the progression as recommended in this thread.

Yeah, if you have that then you don't need Heisig. Heisig is, if you simplify it a lot, trying to get English speakers to the state of Chinese speakers. Well, readers. But you see what I mean.

 

[GMB]

Yep, so get on getting into context! Get some manga you want to read (Took me a while to find something I like, but that right now is Crayon Shinchan. Dragonball is also good.) games or whatever. Then get your trusty dictionary out and get cracking.

Thanks, I'll be getting some volumes of Yotsuba to in japanese since I've heard it should be good for those learning japanese with its easy language etc, and also since the series rocks, later on then.

Well it seems like we are in the same boat. I have read a ton on what to do after RTK and I think I have settled on a plan. . After RTK I am going to start learning some grammar using Tae Kim Guide to Japanese grammar. Once I have finished that I am going to start Kanji Odyssey 2001 . It is a little pricey, but it looks like a solid source of sentences. You can read more about it here

Edit: I just wanted to be clear. I will be mining sentences from Tae Kim's guide. So that I can learn the grammar and new words at the same time. If you want something free instead of KO2001 then go for smart.fm core 2000. Core 2000 is nice because it is much easier to put the sentences and audio into anki or so I read. Just so you know I haven't tried either KO2001 or Core2000 because I am not there yet. I just wanted to let people know some options I found. In thread on another site people discuss the advantages and disadvantages of KO2001 and Core 2000

Thanks alot. Guess I'll also look into the Tae Kim soon, and check out those other things you named.

Can't wait to get my book home, should arrive sometime this week. Wouldnt know what to do if that free sample with the first kanjis wasn't around.

On electronic dictionaries, anyone got any personal recommendations? Not sure what to look for when it comes to those. Why would a newer one be any better than some old one for example, if its just a dictionary where you look stuff up? Can't imagine the language being that different from 5 years ago. :lol No idea here.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Ah yeah, I totally love Yotsuba&. Just finished reading what was available so long ago it kind of slipped out of mind.
Picked up a Murakami book yesterday. Pinball, 1973. Been working my way through it but starting is a big pain. A friend of mine is telling me that once I get rolling with the book it'll be fine but I'm not so sure.

 

[GMB]

Is it a pain because of the language or is it just bad?
I love Murakami, never read anything that early though.

 

[louis89]

I started learning Japanese a year ago and I remember reading the OP back then, way before my account was activated. Pretty cool to see how far I've come since then, that I can actually read that Anki screenshot now. Still have a loooong way to go though. I don't think I thought I'd still be at it a year later.

Anyway, what's a good way to say "okay"? As in, "the film was okay". Not good, not bad.

 

[sasimirobot]

This may sound kinda strange...

I have never, ever, used a dictionary in a language I have studied. Never owned one, never looked in one.

There is something I call "the elephant problem". It is something I have seen over and over again as a teacher and student of foreign languages. If (for example) you don`t know the word for "ELEPHANT" in whatever language you are speaking at the time you have 2 choices:

1. interrupt the flow of conversation to spent 2 minutes looking up the word in question. awkward moment follows, conversation stops, you spurt out they random translated word, minutes follow with "heh?" and "eri-fu-anto?" and you hunched over your phone/keyboard/dic/etc..10 minutes later you forget the word.

2. you describe an elephant using basic words that you already know, followed by help with a native speaker leading you in the right direction with a natural flow of conversation. you both come to a natural spoken agreement about what you are talking about and move on to other topics without a awkward stop in conversation...

now apply this to a real world situation and but remove the dictionary, which skill is more important?

 

[Zoe]

There is something I call "the elephant problem". It is something I have seen over and over again as a teacher and student of foreign languages. If (for example) you don`t know the word for "ELEPHANT" in whatever language you are speaking at the time you have 2 choices:

The problem with this is success is entirely dependent upon the native speaker. What if you're looking for a term that's outside of their experience or if they've simply forgotten/have no idea what you're talking about?

This happened to me a few months ago. I was speaking with a beginner about writing letters, but I couldn't remember the Japanese equivalent of "dear." I asked my friend who is practically fluent, and he had no idea (despite both of us learning it from reading classes). So he went around asking all the native speakers, but none of them had a clue.

Finally I said, "just look up 'dear' in your iPhone [dictionary]." The verdict? 拝啓

He went around showing all the native speakers, and the universal reaction was pretty much (paraphrased) "oh yeah, duh! 拝啓 and 敬具!"

 

[Askia47]

I'm gunna go for the JLPT 3 this year.

I failed JLPT 4 in 2005 and 2007, yet I really want to push myself for more this year. I want to get into the intermediate level properly, instead of only being "kinda" in the level. After my trip to Japan i realized my language skills were too poor.

I have to step it up.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The problem with this is success is entirely dependent upon the native speaker. What if you're looking for a term that's outside of their experience or if they've simply forgotten/have no idea what you're talking about?

This happened to me a few months ago. I was speaking with a beginner about writing letters, but I couldn't remember the Japanese equivalent of "dear." I asked my friend who is practically fluent, and he had no idea (despite both of us learning it from reading classes). So he went around asking all the native speakers, but none of them had a clue.

Finally I said, "just look up 'dear' in your iPhone [dictionary]." The verdict? 拝啓

He went around showing all the native speakers, and the universal reaction was pretty much (paraphrased) "oh yeah, duh! 拝啓 and 敬具!"

Your friend might have been having difficulties because "dear" does not necessarily = "拝啓". It really depends on who you are writing the letter to, and if it is just to a friend you probably will not use "拝啓". Depending on the situation and the recipient there are literally dozens of different ways of writing an equivalent of "dear" in Japanese.

Dictionaries are extremely helpful tools, but knowing a word isn't very useful unless you know how and when to use it (context etc...)

 

[RevenantKioku]

This may sound kinda strange...

I have never, ever, used a dictionary in a language I have studied. Never owned one, never looked in one.

There is something I call "the elephant problem". It is something I have seen over and over again as a teacher and student of foreign languages. If (for example) you don`t know the word for "ELEPHANT" in whatever language you are speaking at the time you have 2 choices:

1. interrupt the flow of conversation to spent 2 minutes looking up the word in question. awkward moment follows, conversation stops, you spurt out they random translated word, minutes follow with "heh?" and "eri-fu-anto?" and you hunched over your phone/keyboard/dic/etc..10 minutes later you forget the word.

2. you describe an elephant using basic words that you already know, followed by help with a native speaker leading you in the right direction with a natural flow of conversation. you both come to a natural spoken agreement about what you are talking about and move on to other topics without a awkward stop in conversation...

now apply this to a real world situation and but remove the dictionary, which skill is more important?

That's great, but what about non conversational situations?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This may sound kinda strange...

I have never, ever, used a dictionary in a language I have studied. Never owned one, never looked in one.

There is something I call "the elephant problem". It is something I have seen over and over again as a teacher and student of foreign languages. If (for example) you don`t know the word for "ELEPHANT" in whatever language you are speaking at the time you have 2 choices:

1. interrupt the flow of conversation to spent 2 minutes looking up the word in question. awkward moment follows, conversation stops, you spurt out they random translated word, minutes follow with "heh?" and "eri-fu-anto?" and you hunched over your phone/keyboard/dic/etc..10 minutes later you forget the word.

2. you describe an elephant using basic words that you already know, followed by help with a native speaker leading you in the right direction with a natural flow of conversation. you both come to a natural spoken agreement about what you are talking about and move on to other topics without a awkward stop in conversation...

now apply this to a real world situation and but remove the dictionary, which skill is more important?

I definitely agree that being able to explain things with a limited vocabulary is an extremely useful skill, but dictionaries (especially compact electronic dictionaries) can be very handy. I think they are best used to look up words you hear or read and not necessarily words you want to say. It is especially easy with Japanese, because you can hear a word in a conversation and look it up easily in a dictionary without having to worry about the spelling of the word. I owe a lot of my vocabulary to an electronic dictionary that I would always keep on me and look up words I heard in conversations or on television or words I saw in books, magazines, advertisements, etc...

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

I definitely agree that being able to explain things with a limited vocabulary is an extremely useful skill, but dictionaries (especially compact electronic dictionaries) can be very handy. I think they are best used to look up words you hear or read and not necessarily words you want to say. It is especially easy with Japanese, because you can hear a word in a conversation and look it up easily in a dictionary without having to worry about the spelling of the word. I owe a lot of my vocabulary to an electronic dictionary that I would always keep on me and look up words I heard in conversations or on television or words I saw in books, magazines, advertisements, etc...

Zefah - As someone who has gone through this before and thus has earned my respect. I was wondering what exactly was your technique for handling vocab? Unless I srs stuff I can never remember vocab, and looking back at words lists I have in RIkai and I've taken of books I've read, I often don't remember that I've seen the word before(unless I srs it).

I've gone through and srsed and passively memorized the entire JLPT list of words (4-1) ( I just slowly went through the word list, found dictionary example sentences and srsed words I didn't know). This allows me to get the gist of everything I read. But I'm still amazed by the amount of vocab I can encounter in novels that I've never seen before, If I were to srs evey new word I see, I would be adding 100-200 new words a day( - this includes kanji combinations were the meaning is obvious, but I'm not sure of the proper reading/ wouldn't recognize the word if it was said in conversation).

Once you got up to the passive word range of 10,000 or so, how did you attempt to choose what to passively memorize and what was your technique in doing so?

Thanks!

 

[sasimirobot]

sorry if this has been posted before, cant be bothered to read a dozen pages back.

how not to sound like a bitch/tranvestite in Japanese

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhk2v_uQo7s&feature=channel

I had the same problem right after college. Some of my guy friends would say I sound kinda gay... now I am completely comfortable with "ore/omae" and his bastard cousins.

He has a good point. Lose the Japanese girlfriend for a few nights and go drinking with some gyoza/syouchu breath salary men for a week.

PS:

What the fuck is up with the gaizin(foreigners) attitude in Japan these days?? It seems like everyone has a stick up his ass about being in Japan. I cant count how many times I have seen some foreign guy blab up his Japanese (at highest volume possible) and then stare at the surrounding non-japanese as a kinda a death dare.

I was in Roppongi (yes I know, but I was meeting a friend) and made the mistake of asking directions from a "westerner?". First he proceeds to give me a lecture on how Roppongi is a shithole, then after his sermon is over and he relents to directions like I am a supreme asshat even for asking, he stares at my open handshake like I was holding the dead remains of his siamese twin.

Fuck. you dont get this is any other asian country. will you guys come down a notch. please?

 

[rex64]

What the fuck is up with the gaizin(foreigners) attitude in Japan these days?? It seems like everyone has a stick up his ass about being in Japan.

Dude, 90% of foreigner in Japan are loser dorks (me included) so don't be surprise is they are that way.

BTW is gaijin not gaizin

 

[GMB]

Dude, 90% of foreigner in Japan are loser dorks (me included) so don't be surprise is they are that way.

BTW is gaijin not gaizin

Oh shi-, you don't wanna go there. :lol read first pages where they argue about how to type shit in romaji.


sasimirobot, sounds like some random asshole, you often encounter those kind of people?
Don't understand what the handshake was for though, shaking someones hand for giving you some directions.. ? what

 

[sasimirobot]

Oh shi-, you don't wanna go there. :lol read first pages where they argue about how to type shit in romaji.


sasimirobot, sounds like some random asshole, you often encounter those kind of people?
Don't understand what the handshake was for though, shaking someones hand for giving you some directions.. ? what

I understand the whole "meet 5 asshole in one day you are the asshole thing..."

but I just showed up in Tokyo 2 hours ago (at that time). this was the first person I had a conversation with.

I dont mind giving a handshake for ...but I guess you whippersnappers would more like a pound? shit...whatever. just trying to figure out why roppongi hills is now COOL, because before is was a place to ash your butts after getting a STD.

 

[sasimirobot]

Dude, 90% of foreigner in Japan are loser dorks (me included) so don't be surprise is they are that way.

BTW is gaijin not gaizin

tnx for fixing my japanese. dont know what I would do here without your help. people sometimes get confused when I say "susi"... they make sure I understand that they are saying su#i.

 

[Mik2121]

Dude, 90% of foreigner in Japan are loser dorks (me included) so don't be surprise is they are that way.

BTW is gaijin not gaizin

So damn true. I just can't stand many of the foreigners around that live here and just feel so fucking superior to everybody else when they would be laughed at in their home countries. Thankfully the Argentinian guy who has an art gallery right next to my house is so damn nice and it compensates all the other jerks around.

I try to be nice to foreigners, though most of the times when another foreigner waves their says Hi (sorta weird having someone saying Hi to you in the middle of the street, but whatever) or sorta greets you with an smile or something are mostly tourists.

 

[sasimirobot]

k

 

[Kilrogg]

sorry if this has been posted before, cant be bothered to read a dozen pages back.

how not to sound like a bitch/tranvestite in Japanese

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhk2v_uQo7s&feature=channel

I had the same problem right after college. Some of my guy friends would say I sound kinda gay... now I am completely comfortable with "ore/omae" and his bastard cousins.

He has a good point. Lose the Japanese girlfriend for a few nights and go drinking with some gyoza/syouchu breath salary men for a week.

Good video, but something bothers me both in the video and the article the guy wrote: do you really sound girly if you say　「ドイツ人なの？」　or 「そうなの？」　instead of using 「かい？」 ?

First, I've actually heard Japanese guys use なの in questions when I was in Japan. Second, I've had oral expression lessons dedicated to the differences between girl-speak and guy-speak, and not once did the teacher (who's Japanese) or the Japanese students say that なの in questions shouldn't be used by men. In declarative sentences, you shouldn't use it, obviously, but in questions, it's fine. Heck, I even asked my teacher about it and she said both men and women use it. Third, replacing なの with かい doesn't make much sense to me, but I'm not too familiar with the latter: does it implicitly include a ん/の? If not, then it does definitely not make any sense to use it in this case from a linguistic standpoint.

Could someone who lives in Japan and/or knows Japanese better than I do tell me what's the deal with this?

 

[Mik2121]

k

I saw your post before you edited

 

[Mik2121]

Good video, but something bothers me both in the video and the article the guy wrote: do you really sound girly if you say　「ドイツ人なの？」　or 「そうなの？」　instead of using 「かい？」 ?

First, I've actually heard Japanese guys use なの in questions when I was in Japan. Second, I've had oral expression lessons dedicated to the differences between girl-speak and guy-speak, and not once did the teacher (who's Japanese) or the Japanese students say that なの in questions shouldn't be used by men. In declarative sentences, you shouldn't use it, obviously, but in questions, it's fine. Heck, I even asked my teacher about it and she said both men and women use it. Third, replacing なの with かい doesn't make much sense to me, but I'm not too familiar with the latter: does it implicitly include a ん/の? If not, then it does definitely not make any sense to use it in this case from a linguistic standpoint.

Could someone who lives in Japan and/or knows Japanese better than I do tell me what's the deal with this?

I use 「そうなの？」all the time and almost all my classmates (Japanese) do as well Your classmates probably don't know shit about it and they are just talking without any real knowledge. Using 「かい？」is alright as well, and I can't remember of any girl that uses it, so it could be more 'manly', but whatever... saying you will sound feminine if you use that instead of 「かい？」is plain retarded.

And yep, for using 「かい？」you need to include ん or の, though there might be a couple exceptions.

 

[Kilrogg]

I use 「そうなの？」all the time and almost all my classmates (Japanese) do as well Your classmates probably don't know shit about it and they are just talking without any real knowledge. Using 「かい？」is alright as well, and I can't remember of any girl that uses it, so it could be more 'manly', but whatever... saying you will sound feminine if you use that instead of 「かい？」is plain retarded.

And yep, for using 「かい？」you need to include ん or の, though there might be a couple exceptions.

My classmates don't say anything about it because they're students like me (and I'm a bit more advanced than most of them anyway) . They're not Japanese, but the few Japanese students that were there never said なの sounded weird.

Either way, thanks for reinforcing my doubts!

 

[Mik2121]

My classmates don't say anything about it because they're students like me (and I'm a bit more advanced than most of them anyway) . They're not Japanese, but the few Japanese students that were there never said なの sounded weird.

Either way, thanks for reinforcing my doubts!

Sorry, got my brain all mixed and for a second there I thought you said your classmates said that, instead of the guy from the video. My bad... (it's 6am here and I have yet to sleep).

Anyway, yeah, when you are asking, using ～なの？ is alright. When in declarative sentences, saying ～なのよ might indeed sound a bit weird, but even then, it wouldn't be weird if you are answering to some question that ended in ～なの？. Otherwise just use the typical stuff that they teach you ( ～ですよ、～だ&#12424 or just go and talk in a funner way (～っすよ、～やで - from the Kansai area -, etc.. ).

 

[sasimirobot]

so da yo. ore ha doituzin da mounku aru ka...

 

[Mik2121]

Also, last but not least, beware of all the weabos on youtube trying to teach Japanese. Most of the times either their pronunciation is horrible or they just use words that normal people don't or they just don't know what the hell they are talking about. You should rather stick to either native Japanese people, or people that just don't try to sound awesome because they can speak Japanese (which isn't that awesome, because it's just one goddamn language, and a lot of people in the world can talk more than 2 or 3 languages, so no big deal).


Just telling..


edit - sasimirobot, i read your post before editing, again. Lol.

 

[sasimirobot]

edit - sasimirobot, i read your post before editing, again. Lol.

can you PM me that? because at this point at 6am in Japan, me gettin a BJ and drunk, cant really think, or post, or care...hold on..

 

[rex64]

As far as I recall:

なの is girly

かい is just rude


I totally agree with Mik, don't learn from weabooes (Koichi @ Tofugu included) they just speak like drama / animu character.

 

[Askia47]

I hate putting things into Anki, but it looks like its the only way things will stay in my head.

I tried it a year ago and I gave up eventually. I'll try to stick to it this time.

 

[Kilrogg]

I hate putting things into Anki, but it looks like its the only way things will stay in my head.

I tried it a year ago and I gave up eventually. I'll try to stick to it this time.

Do it. It really is a good way to learn words and kanji in particular. There will be times when you leave Anki for a while and come back to it later, only to find that you've got 1200 cards awaiting review, but stick to it, seriously.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

There is absolutely nothing inherently girly about "なの" unless it used to sound girly. Goddamn it is annoying when people come off all superior and try to "drop some knowledge" about Japanese when they really aren't that good themselves.

 

[rex64]

There is absolutely nothing inherently girly about "なの" unless it used to sound girly. Goddamn it is annoying when people come off all superior and try to "drop some knowledge" about Japanese when they really aren't that good themselves.

dude, the の is totally girly, sorry if nobody teach you that

 

[Deleted member 17706]

dude, the の is totally girly, sorry if nobody teach you that

oh shit I must've missed that one! Too bad no one teach me that before, right??

 

[mujun]

I don't think の is strictly feminine. Still if you want to avoid sounding feminine at all costs then you should probably use rising intonation after dictionary form like どこ行く？ かい and だ as questions seemed to be used only by teenagers and the like trying to be cool or men when they are angry/surprised.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I don't think の is strictly feminine. Still if you want to avoid sounding feminine at all costs then you should probably use rising intonation after dictionary form like どこ行く？ かい and だ as questions seemed to be used only by teenagers and the like trying to be cool or men when they are angry/surprised.

There is nothing inherently feminine about の. I think the last poster was just joking around.

 

[shanshan310]

There is nothing inherently feminine about の.

just wondering, is わfeminine? I've only ever heard girls add it in, and my tutor i think said something about it...

 

[Mik2121]

just wondering, is わfeminine? I've only ever heard girls add it in, and my tutor i think said something about it...

わ is indeed feminine except in some situations. You can still use it, but it will sound a bit awkward. But の is definitely OK to use and doesn't sound feminine. But if you are worried, just do like mujun said and

use rising intonation after dictionary form like どこ行く？

But still, using の is NOT feminine. And わ can be used by men in some cases like for example

疲れたわ～ (I'm tired)

So yeah, it completely depends on the situation.

 

[Pre]

Question: How effective is something like Rosetta Stone for learning Japanese? I've tried to several times to learn some of the language through books, but it just isn't working for me. I've started to look for some software, and I'm really interested in Rosetta Stone.

 

[mujun]

just wondering, is わfeminine? I've only ever heard girls add it in, and my tutor i think said something about it...

Falling intonation わ for guys as far as I know, like in the example Mik2121 gave or when you say something like "I'm gonna take off." = "ほんじゃ、行くわ"

 

[louis89]

Question: How effective is something like Rosetta Stone for learning Japanese? I've tried to several times to learn some of the language through books, but it just isn't working for me. I've started to look for some software, and I'm really interested in Rosetta Stone.

Rosetta Stone is a waste of time and money. There's a variety of different kinds of exercises in it, but it basically boils down to hearing/reading "the boy is talking to the girl" and having to click the right picture which goes with it out of four. The idea is that you hear that and variations of it enough times that you figure out what "boy" and "girl" and "talking" etc. are. The idea is a good one, that it's best to learn like you would by immersion in a foreign country, by making mental connections when you hear the language corresponding to the situation you're in, but it just doesn't work in a piece of software in practice. There are no translations or anything and it's all just kind of a waste of time. Sure, you'll pick up a bit of vocabulary, but grammar? Being able to write kanji? No chance.

If you lack the motivation to learn from books, I'd say the best thing would be to take classes. They're the best thing because they force you to regularly keep in touch with the language and you can't just let it slip like you can when you're trying to teach yourself.