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[Snytbaggen]

Okay, GAF, I need some help. I have a test on all katakana and hiragana plus a ton of words tomorrow, and some pro tips on how to study would be much appreciated. I can read the characters without any problem, but I have some difficulty in remembering how to write them... Is there any trick to learning this, or do I just have to try practise writing them in some way?

 

[Zoe]

Okay, GAF, I need some help. I have a test on all katakana and hiragana plus a ton of words tomorrow, and some pro tips on how to study would be much appreciated. I can read the characters without any problem, but I have some difficulty in remembering how to write them... Is there any trick to learning this, or do I just have to try practise writing them in some way?

Practicing is seriously the best way. And since you're just starting out, it's good to get the habit down now.

Do you guys not get a workbook where you have to fill out rows of the characters you're learning?

 

[Snytbaggen]

This is only an introductory week to learn us to write and read kana. Next week the real education begins, which assumes we know how to read and write kana. So it's a really high tempo. We have gotten some papers with squares on them, to practice writing on. So I'm off to do that right now. Wish me luck! :S

 

[louis89]

Okay, GAF, I need some help. I have a test on all katakana and hiragana plus a ton of words tomorrow, and some pro tips on how to study would be much appreciated. I can read the characters without any problem, but I have some difficulty in remembering how to write them... Is there any trick to learning this, or do I just have to try practise writing them in some way?

Watching these and copying them might help.

 

[Magnus_Bulla]

As someone who's completely new and knows no more Japanese other than the couple words I know phonetically through anime, what should be the very first step? Is it more important to get acquainted with hiragana/katakana, or just focusing on writing kanji?

 

[Kilrogg]

Hiragana/katakana first. Add kanji if you can take it, but start slowly, and only with the easier, more common kanji.

Also, find a teacher in your area.

 

[Mik2121]

This is not related to Japanese, but somewhat to Japan itself....

Holy crap, I seriously hate some foreigners around here...

Today I went out to the ATM and then pay some bills, and it was so damn hot outside. Because I had to go with the bike, it was a bit tiring and I didn't have the happiest face you can imagine...

Anyway, I go with my bike and pass right next to this foreigner, and I just happened to look at him for like half a second or even less... then I continue and after five minutes I stop to change the song in my iPod when this guy (with a Japanese girl) stops right next to me and starts talking to me in this weird accent (he definitely wasn't an English native speaker, he sounded German I think)..

Him - What are you loo----- (I couldn't hear because I was with my ipod on)

Me - Uh.. What?
Him - What are you looking at with those mean eyes (the fuck??)
Me - Excuse me?
Him - Were you looking at me with those mean eyes?
Me - Ehm.. no? What?
Him - What were you looking at, huh?
Me - ...The street? :S
Him - Alright...

And fucking leaves. What the fuck does this fucking idiot think he is? Even if I were looking at him, would he ever try to do something? Fucking idiots coming to Japan thinking they can do whatever they want...

This is the only reason why I despise some foreigners... I never have any single problem with Japanese people and every time I have ever had any discussion in this country, has been with a goddamn foreigner. I know I'm a foreigner as well, but I at least try to not act like this is my home country, doing whatever I want like I would back there.

 

[mephesta]

This is the only reason why I despise some foreigners... I never have any single problem with Japanese people and every time I have ever had any discussion in this country, has been with a goddamn foreigner. I know I'm a foreigner as well, but I at least try to not act like this is my home country, doing whatever I want like I would back there.

I'm with you. I am American and I live in the US but I love to travel. I hate when people act like this guy did.
1. They don't understand that they make it difficult for forgieners trying to make a living in the country.
2. They don't take the time to understand the culture of country.

I know Americans are generally the worst at this rated by other countrys and it just
makes me mad because it makes things harder on me and my fellow travelers.

 

[mephesta]

As someone who's completely new and knows no more Japanese other than the couple words I know phonetically through anime, what should be the very first step? Is it more important to get acquainted with hiragana/katakana, or just focusing on writing kanji?

Honestly, My Japanese Coach for the DS is a really great starting point. It teaches some basic words, does the kana's and builds you up gradually but effectively.

Learning Hiragana then Katakana is really important, it is really beneficial to drop romanji (japanese written with english symbols) and stick to the kanas. Then I would start with sentence structure and getting that down. From there add to your vocabulary and start the kanji learning. At least that was my style and its been working very well.

 

[louis89]

.

 

[Gui_PT]

I'm with you. I am American and I live in the US but I love to travel. I hate when people act like this guy did.
1. They don't understand that they make it difficult for forgieners trying to make a living in the country.
2. They don't take the time to understand the culture of country.

I know Americans are generally the worst at this rated by other countrys and it just
makes me mad because it makes things harder on me and my fellow travelers.

You know, I'm european and i can tell you that happens everywhere, not just with americans
Even though i think Americans are the most... how can i say this.. "non-liked" by others, i can't really say we have problems like that towards americans in my country

 

[mujun]

This is not related to Japanese, but somewhat to Japan itself....

Holy crap, I seriously hate some foreigners around here...

Today I went out to the ATM and then pay some bills, and it was so damn hot outside. Because I had to go with the bike, it was a bit tiring and I didn't have the happiest face you can imagine...

Anyway, I go with my bike and pass right next to this foreigner, and I just happened to look at him for like half a second or even less... then I continue and after five minutes I stop to change the song in my iPod when this guy (with a Japanese girl) stops right next to me and starts talking to me in this weird accent (he definitely wasn't an English native speaker, he sounded German I think)..

Him - What are you loo----- (I couldn't hear because I was with my ipod on)

Me - Uh.. What?
Him - What are you looking at with those mean eyes (the fuck??)
Me - Excuse me?
Him - Were you looking at me with those mean eyes?
Me - Ehm.. no? What?
Him - What were you looking at, huh?
Me - ...The street? :S
Him - Alright...

And fucking leaves. What the fuck does this fucking idiot think he is? Even if I were looking at him, would he ever try to do something? Fucking idiots coming to Japan thinking they can do whatever they want...

This is the only reason why I despise some foreigners... I never have any single problem with Japanese people and every time I have ever had any discussion in this country, has been with a goddamn foreigner. I know I'm a foreigner as well, but I at least try to not act like this is my home country, doing whatever I want like I would back there.

I hate those foreigners who come here and try as hard to be Japanese as possible. They spend so much time around Japanese people they even start to act like them and feel the need to attribute any qualities they notice in one foreigner in particular to every foreigner in existence

But seriously let's not generalize about a million people based on the actions of one idiot. I've been here 10 years and never once had that happen to me, I live in a place there are lots of foreigners around too.

 

[rex64]

90% of westerner foreigners in Japan sucks (me included)

they are just a bunch of losers in their home country that go to Japan because of this:

 

[RevenantKioku]

I hate those foreigners who come here and try as hard to be Japanese as possible. They spend so much time around Japanese people they even start to act like them and feel the need to attribute any qualities they notice in one foreigner in particular to every foreigner in existence

But seriously let's not generalize about a million people based on the actions of one idiot. I've been here 10 years and never once had that happen to me, I live in a place there are lots of foreigners around too.

You are apparently one lucky mother fucker.

 

[O.DOGG]

If you can't get into the university course you want, is there some sort of TAFE-esque place you can go to study and get a certificate/diploma? I don't know how it is where your from, but in Australia you can do that pretty easily, and if you get good results you can upgrade into the uni course you wanna do. Or if you wanted to study something else at uni you could probably do a diploma concurrently.
I don't recommend studying without a teacher. If you make a mistake no one will be around to correct you! If you can't get into a class, i'm sure you could find a private tutor or something. I did that for a long time, until i realised i could take Japanese through distance education. Also, you can absolutely start from scratch! you have to start somewhere.

I'm not sure if any of that helped or not, but there's a whole bunch of options for you out there if you look good luck!

Thanks, I'll definitely look for other options. I may give the school another shot next year. What bothers me is that I'm almost 30, and possibly too old for this shit.

 

[mujun]

You are apparently one lucky mother fucker.

Really? You've had foreigners basically try to start a fight with you in the street?

All I ever get is a nod or "Hello".

 

[RevenantKioku]

Really? You've had foreigners basically try to start a fight with you in the street?

All I ever get is a nod or "Hello".

I've had various bizarre experiences with other foreigners from that to a dude saying he would get a guy to rape my friend. To say they were all unpleasant would be a lie, but. . .

 

[mujun]

I've had various bizarre experiences with other foreigners from that to a dude saying he would get a guy to rape my friend. To say they were all unpleasant would be a lie, but. . .

Where the hell do you hang out? I live in Umeda and used to live right in Namba but I've never had any of that kind of shit. Go figure. We could always do what the Japanese do when they go overseas, make our own little community and stick solely to it

 

[myDingling]

90% of westerner foreigners in Japan sucks (me included)

they are just a bunch of losers in their home country that go to Japan because of this:

Sigh, too true.

 

[Mik2121]

Really? You've had foreigners basically try to start a fight with you in the street?

All I ever get is a nod or "Hello".

I never said ALL foreigners sucks, I said I hate that kind of foreigners that just like to fuck around with people because they think they are 'powerful' in Japan, when in their home countries they would get beaten up for doing the same bullshit. And if I didn't act at all when this guy started to mess with me, was because I don't wanna have any problems that later involve police, because of visa problems and whatever the hell that could cause.

And I don't try to be Japanese at all (no, really), though I do indeed have mostly Japanese friends and I'm all day talking in Japanese, I also have a couple very good foreigner friends I met here and I don't think of them as any lesser friends than my Japanese friends.

And yes, I don't know where you live, but where I live, besides the many foreigners that just nod their heads or say Hello (which I usually answer back, though I don't usually say Hi by myself as I have never done that in any other country and don't see the reason to do it here, but I don't wanna be a jerk either..), I have also had bad luck enough to meet some really retarded foreigners. That I can remember now...

1) An Spanish guy from the same city I am. We became friends, then he made a Japanese girlfriend and told me he didn't want to hang anymore because he'd rather be with Japanese people (the fuck?)

2) An American guy in a club, I was dancing with a friend and he was talking with some girls. My friend started to talk with them and introduced me to them. I ended up chatting all the time with the girls (one of which is my current gf) and the guy got so pissed off he started to call me gay and wanted to start a fight in the middle of the club. Everybody else were Japanese with a couple other foreigners, and all were looking at him like "wtf is wrong with this dude?".

3) Some random guy started to stalk me (seriously), following me for about 20 minutes. I was a bit worried (he was way bigger than me and I don't like fights to begin with), so I got to a street full of people, waited there and asked him what was wrong. He told me he had to go, but that he would have beaten the fuck out of me because I was trying too hard to be Japanese because he heard me talking in Japanese in my phone.

Seriously... the fuck?


(And btw, I'm not the kind of foreigner from that comic, thanks god!... I would have had it much easier if I lived in my home country, and I don't look bad imo so I didn't come to get pussy either )

 

[Ratba]

Time to right this ship before it gets any further off track...

I'm studying for 三級 right now. I've been using ALC brand of JLPT books a long with my handy dandy grammar dictionary. As far as the grammar goes its no biggy but I'm getting hung up on vocab. Alternate, or mostly written/old forms?, I had no idea that asu = ashita. When I asked a co-worker they said it was something their parents said and that it wasn't to common now... Hell I'd never heard of it before. Then again every time I see the kanji 明日 I read it as ashita.

 

[mujun]

Time to right this ship before it gets any further off track...

I'm studying for 三級 right now. I've been using ALC brand of JLPT books a long with my handy dandy grammar dictionary. As far as the grammar goes its no biggy but I'm getting hung up on vocab. Alternate, or mostly written/old forms?, I had no idea that asu = ashita. When I asked a co-worker they said it was something their parents said and that it wasn't to common now... Hell I'd never heard of it before. Then again every time I see the kanji 明日 I read it as ashita.

They use "asu" a lot in formal situations, weather reports and the like.

Sounds like you are sticking to conversation based vocab, if you want more stuff along the lines of the example you gave you will need to read more written Japanese, formal Japanese and if possible Japanese from easier news reports.

You could try here for articles (entertainment news should be the easiest and most relevant).

Use here to cut and paste kanji or vocab.

@Mik I've never had anything like you described happen to me. Then again those anecdotes sound to me like they could happen to you anywhere. The only time I've gotten close to fighting in the street is with Japanese people, usually middle aged guys and usually because they don't like when I tell them to fuck off after having almost run me over in their car or walked straight into me because they have their head up their ass.

 

[Nocebo]

Use here to cut and paste kanji or vocab.

ooo this one is nice. You can look up plain forms with conjugated words.

 

[sasimirobot]

There should be a Official Japan all inclusive thread made.

It gets boring seeing the same "Im going to japan in 2 days how do I ride the bus?" thread over and over and over again...

 

[Nocebo]

Just wondering: when someone gets somewhat proficient in japanese do they automatically get saddled up on a complimentary high horse or what? Because I'm somewhat affraid of heights, I'm hoping it's just an option you get to choose from.

 

[BlueWord]

Just wondering: when someone gets somewhat proficient in japanese do they automatically get saddled up on a complimentary high horse or what? Because I'm somewhat affraid of heights, I'm hoping it's just an option you get to choose from.

I sort of chuckled at this, but mostly because this seems entirely out of place in a thread that's mostly focused on people helping others who are trying to learn a language.

In other words, I guess it's really not that funny. :/

 

[Nocebo]

I sort of chuckled at this, but mostly because this seems entirely out of place in a thread that's mostly focused on people helping others who are trying to learn a language.

In other words, I guess it's really not that funny. :/

Ok so it's mostly sasimirobot.

 

[mujun]

Just wondering: when someone gets somewhat proficient in japanese do they automatically get saddled up on a complimentary high horse or what? Because I'm somewhat affraid of heights, I'm hoping it's just an option you get to choose from.

Sure you get the option, it's your brain and you can use it if you want to.

Still a lot of people get caught up in the fact that Japanese is an in thing at the moment (with the popularity of manga, anime and the like in the west), has a certain mystique and if they live here they might fall into the trap of believing all the Japanese people who say ”日本語すごい上手ですね” to them and let it go to their head.

 

[marvelharvey]

...they might fall into the trap of believing all the Japanese people who say ”日本語すごい上手ですね” to them and let it go to their head.

Indeed, a person's Japanese ability is usually inversely proportional to how many times they hear the above phrase.

Say, "はい" and all Japanese people within a 75m radius will rush over try and complement the foreigner on his/her amazing linguistic skill.

Say, "国際的な人権擁護主義者たちは、法律が認めている数を上回る子供をもうけることを選ぶ人々に対する中国の厳罰に、長年にわたり抗議してきました" and nobody bats an eyelid.

 

[mujun]

Indeed, a person's Japanese ability is usually inversely proportional to how many times they hear the above phrase.

Say, "はい" and all Japanese people within a 75m radius will rush over try and complement the foreigner on his/her amazing linguistic skill.

Say, "国際的な人権擁護主義者たちは、法律が認めている数を上回る子供をもうけることを選ぶ人々に対する中国の厳罰に、長年にわたり抗議してきました" and nobody bats an eyelid.

[whispers to marvelharvey]psst...Babel fish?[/whispers to marvelharvey]

 

[marvelharvey]

[whispers to marvelharvey]psst...Babel fish?[/whispers to marvelharvey]

Just a cut'n'paste job from a Human Rights article, of little interest to anyone (but some protesters and Chinese children).

 

[Ratba]

They use "asu" a lot in formal situations, weather reports and the like.

Sounds like you are sticking to conversation based vocab, if you want more stuff along the lines of the example you gave you will need to read more written Japanese, formal Japanese and if possible Japanese from easier news reports.

Thanks for the links. Time to reinstall rikaichan. But still doesn't help that I won't know asu form ashita if its always in the kanji form. I'd like to read more but my vocabulary and finding a good that isn't too high or two low can be trouble. If there aren't any kanji I'm left scratching my head but most books with kanji invovle immediate access to a dictionary usually. I need to knuckle down and pimp my vocab.

 

[zoku88]

Random question, when can の　be substituted for が. I kinda forgot -_-;;

 

[RpgN]

But still doesn't help that I won't know asu form ashita if its always in the kanji form.

And you aren't really supposed to know that, both are read the same in pretty much the same situation/context. The differences is so small if you want to sound a little more formal. The best is to hear how the person is reading/spelling the kanji, but I don't see why you would pick one from another when you want to say I want to go shopping tomorrow. Both are used regularly, I think that's what mujun was trying to convey too.

 

[Ratba]

And you aren't really supposed to know that, both are read the same in pretty much the same situation/context. The differences is so small if you want to sound a little more formal. The best is to hear how the person is reading/spelling the kanji, but I don't see why you would pick one from another when you want to say I want to go shopping tomorrow. Both are used regularly, I think that's what mujun was trying to convey too.

The problem is when I'm taking a test and one of these alternate readings that I've never heard of pops up. I was doing a practice test and the reading for　明日 was asked for. I'm thinking easy, あした、 but it was nowhere to be found. It all really comes down to me knowing the few alternate readings of kanji that are used on different occasions. All the reading in the world won't help me if I don't know how the word is supposed to be read. Guess it all comes down to how well I know my vocab/readings

 

[mujun]

Random question, when can の　be substituted for が. I kinda forgot -_-;;

As a subject marker in subordinate clauses?

彼の作ったケーキはおいしかった。

 

[RpgN]

The problem is when I'm taking a test and one of these alternate readings that I've never heard of pops up. I was doing a practice test and the reading for　明日 was asked for. I'm thinking easy, あした but it was nowhere to be found. It all really comes down to me knowing the few alternate readings of kanji that are used on different occasions. All the reading in the world won't help me if I don't know how the word is supposed to be read. Guess it all comes down to how well I know my vocab/readings

That's unfortunate how the test you had is pretty strict since many use both of them without really thinking about when to use what but I guess this helps you in required work environments. あした is casual while あす is more formal. That's why you hear あす 90% of the time on news channels etc. But when you read song lyrics for instance, a singer/writer has the freedom to pick what he wants. When I heard about Koda Kumi's song on best bounce&lovers with the lyrics booklet in my hands, I expected this song 明日へ。。。to be read as あした but she felt the need to use the other reading I guess with the test you had, when you get questions that are formal and business like, あす should fit the bill. Just to be on the save side, if this is what they expect from you when you are taking those tests.

EDIT: Sorry about this little error, I just edited my post with those ??? replaced with proper Japanese

 

[louis89]

I don't even watch that much, but even then - does anyone else notice the same people cropping up on Japanese TV all the time? It seems like everything I watch I recognise at least one of the cast or presenters... On what I'm watching now I recognise a woman who is a singer and who I've also seen presenting another show, and a man who played a PE teacher in a drama I've seen...

 

[Zoe]

I don't even watch that much, but even then - does anyone else notice the same people cropping up on Japanese TV all the time? It seems like everything I watch I recognise at least one of the cast or presenters... On what I'm watching now I recognise a woman who is a singer and who I've also seen presenting another show, and a man who played a PE teacher in a drama I've seen...

That's タレント for you...

 

[Mikazuki]

Random question, when can の　be substituted for が. I kinda forgot -_-;;

I think women can use it at the end of the sentence to ask a question instead of か、 Don't take my word for it though!

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Hey guys. I start a Japanese course at university in a week and a half, and despite previously being told that no prior knowledge was required at all, as everything would be taught from scratch, I've recently found out that I need to be able to read and write both hiragana and katakana (in order), and ideally their brush strokes for when I go.

Obviously, that doesn't give me much time at all, so I was wondering if anybody had any good tips for hammering it all in with just a week.

My current plan is to use this chart to memorise how they look/the order/etc, and these two pages to memorise the brush strokes.

I've also found these two pages, that have flash cards, which I may use a bit later on.


Does that sound OK? Any sugestions at all? Any help would be really appreciated, because I'm really worried I won't be able to do it in time. It doesn't help that I have packing and the like to worry about as well. :-(

Thanks guys.

 

[Desiato]

Seems like that's the way to go. Also try looking for Japanese texts in furigana so you can practice fluently reading them, it's just for practicing your furigana so who cares if you don't understand what you're reading.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

I'm pressed for time enough as it is; I think I'll skip doing anything not necessary right now. :-/ Thanks for the suggestion though.

Is a week a realistic amount of time to learn both hiragana and katakana, or is it too late?

 

[Zoe]

Is a week a realistic amount of time to learn both hiragana and katakana, or is it too late?

Completely realistic. That's about how much time we had in my class. (Though it was done IN class. Are you sure it's a prerequisite?)

 

[rex64]

Dude honestly kanas are sooo easy you can learn both in 3 days top

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Completely realistic. That's about how much time we had in my class. (Though it was done IN class. Are you sure it's a prerequisite?)

Yeah, we even have a test the day after I arrive. Wouldn't be so bad if it was at the end of fresher's week, but it's at the start. :-/

So you think a week and the links I gave are sufficient to pass a test? Bear in mind I have to memorise the romaji and brush strokes as well. Plus, I need to be able to write them from memory as well as just recognise them.

 

[MelloBoy]

Yeah, we even have a test the day after I arrive. Wouldn't be so bad if it was at the end of fresher's week, but it's at the start. :-/

So you think a week and the links I gave are sufficient to pass a test? Bear in mind I have to memorise the romaji and brush strokes as well. Plus, I need to be able to write them from memory as well as just recognise them.

romaji is easy...that shouldn't be a problem at all

almost every kana romaji is "a i u e o" with just an added letter in front of it.

try to remember: a ka sa ta na ha ma ya ra wa nn...the romaji in front of the "a" is all you need to add in front of each "a i u e o" romaji spelling for each column
a i u e o
ka ki ku ke ko
sa si su se so
etc

for the small characters (つ vs &#12387 just put an x in front I believe, if it's the same as romaji keyboard input.

also installing JPN input on your computer should help significantly

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Yeah, the romaji looks pretty simple to remember. It's the actual hiragana and katakana characters I'm worried about. :-( I have to memorise all of them and be able to draw them from memory in order within a week.

 

[MelloBoy]

Yeah, the romaji looks pretty simple to remember. It's the actual hiragana and katakana characters I'm worried about. :-( I have to memorise all of them and be able to draw them from memory in order within a week.

well then, what are you doing posting on GAF? get to studying

(in all seriousness, it's doable in a week easily, imho...just will need a lot of repetition)

 

[Zoe]

Do you already have your textbook/course materials? There should be practice sections in there.